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need a teckie camera expert to answer an important question for me


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my partner and I were dancing at a club, she asked me why i was locked on another woman, i told i was not as my view had not changed and was on us, i asked her am i still locked on to this woman she said yes, i told her my view right now is on us, so i got her to type something in IM to timestamp and i did a print screen, to prove what she was seiing at that actual time i was viewing us, so please can someone explain what the hell is going on,  how is it she see's my crosshairs on some one and my view is on us, this cause a massive row,

 

help is need urgently

 

thanks

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On about all viewers you can use Develop>Avatar>Show Look At to see these crosshairs.

On the Exodus viewer, use the ''e' toolbar button, and look under the interface interaction section for some options on how these are displayed.

on the Firestorm viewer, there are some similar options in the preferences, under the Privacy tab, a "look at" sub-tab is in there.

See http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Show_Look_At to understand the color code. This page could be good reading for your partner too; if you play around with the camera with this feature turned on, you can quickly see that the crosshairs do not necessarily point where you are looking! They are really only animation hints for your avatar's eyes.

If you alt-click on your partner, you can get the pink crosshairs focused on her. Or, press Esc a couple of times to get a neutral setting back.

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On the Server, when you dance, you do not move.  As far as the Server is concerned you are standing still in one spot.  The animations you see all happen on your Viewer. 

This can at times create all kinds of strange visuals effects.  It is possible for you to lock on a point that is a straight line through what you are seeing in one dance but then when the dance changes say from a slow dance to a tango, you move off of your own screen.  And all of the sudden you find yourself having to pan and scan to get yourself back into view.  Where you thought you were locked is not where you were locked.

Conversely, I can lock on your Avatar and then use the camera controls to pan and scan and zoom all around and Show Look At will still show me locked on your Avatar as I recall.  I may have to go retest this.

Seriously, sometimes I wish they would kill "Show Look At."  It seems to be the cause of more unfounded Dramas then you can shake a stick out.

Or is it simply highlighting an underlying Drama or problem?

I mean, why in the World do people have it enabled to begin with?  All those cross hairs on my screen would drive me crazy.

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Seriously, sometimes I wish they would kill "Show Look At." 

Agreed. Well, almost. It's actually useful for some script debugging, and probably viewer debugging, too. But for "social" use, there will always be people who see unrezzed avatars and frozen animations and still somehow think that look-at updates will magically get sent through the sim.

I get it that most users just don't know any better, but because of that, the feature really belongs buried deep in Debug settings.

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Qie Niangao wrote:

I get it that most users just don't know any better, but because of that, the feature really belongs buried deep in Debug settings.

Try telling that to the TPV developers. For some reason some of them seem to think that if there's an option, no matter how obscure it is, no matter how small a minority of people actually need it, that it has to be front and center in the preferences window.

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Since it's an option people can shut off, and pretty easily, I don't see much need to get rid of it entirely. It's not an option that comes as already on right out ot the box. It's an opt in option.

But I do have to admit that people, quite a few, are drama llamas when it comes to this option. They get very butthurt when others are looking at them, or those they are with are looking at others. It's not even always the case, it just appears that way, and is enough to set some people off.  No I am not saying anyone who dislikes the feature is a drama llama, just that some are, or can behave like it. Such as  people who get angry or upset with their partner or someone they are with at the time, for daring to "look" at someone. That's creating a conflict where one shouldn't exist, communication should **bleep** it in the butt, but as we all know, it doesn't always.

Personally I say if it's not a feature you like, just don't turn it on. Like the many other settings that exist, we've all got options. There are probably a bunch of different settings that mean little to nothing to us, might even be a nuisance, but some other folks might enjoy. I don't think the number of people who enjoy it should matter, when it's something we can so easily opt out of. You can't be bothered by something you never turn on.

Just my take though.

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At 1.44.JPG


Bree Giffen wrote:

Perrie, I believe the crosshairs are a substitute for our basic need to have eye contact. With avatars we just can't recreate the whole interaction between people that happens with our eyes in a room full of people.

I like how Qie phrased it "for social use."

I just went back and watched Torley's Video, 

, which is where I originally learned about the feature.  The screen shot above is at 1:44.  He admonishes that while you can see who is 'spying on you, don't be paranoid.'

There are several to look at this.  I agree with the "don't be paranoid."  I could look at it from the positive aspect of 'that person is taking an interest in me maybe I should say hello,' or from the paranoid aspect, OMG, THEY'RE PERVING ME !*^)*&^*^ WTF!

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leliel Mirihi wrote:


Qie Niangao wrote:

I get it that most users just don't know any better, but because of that, the feature really belongs buried deep in Debug settings.

Try telling that to the TPV developers. For some reason some of them seem to think that if there's an option, no matter how obscure it is, no matter how small a minority of people actually need it, that it has to be front and center in the preferences window.

For one thing it is not an "obscure option."  Torley publicised it when he did his Video.

I like that the options are easily available in the preferences window.  I perve cam a lot.  I enjoy looking at how other's dress, etc.  So I have had to turn off "broadcast my target hints" to avoid the Drama Llama's.  Am I supposed to pretend that there aren't other Avatars present?  Am I not supposed to look around my surroundings?

 

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One day I logged into a busy club with my alt, and just let her dance, so I could see what she was "looking at".  Even with no prompting from me, her gaze would flit around a bit, and often end up fixed on a nearby avatar.  Not the best looking ones either, she had very poor taste on her own.  Kind of random.

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Perrie Juran wrote:


leliel Mirihi wrote:


Qie Niangao wrote:

I get it that most users just don't know any better, but because of that, the feature really belongs buried deep in Debug settings.

Try telling that to the TPV developers. For some reason some of them seem to think that if there's an option, no matter how obscure it is, no matter how small a minority of people actually need it, that it has to be front and center in the preferences window.

For one thing it is not an "obscure option."  Torley publicised it when he did his Video.

I like that the options are easily available in the preferences window.  I perve cam a lot.  I enjoy looking at how other's dress, etc.  So I have had to turn off "broadcast my target hints" to avoid the Drama Llama's.  Am I supposed to pretend that there aren't other Avatars present?  Am I not supposed to look around my surroundings?

 

I think you just proved my point there. Show look at is a debug option that's only useful for debugging the camera and or animations. The fact that TPVs had to add an option to prevent the viewer from sending the look at hints speaks volumes about how many people are using show look at and for what.

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leliel Mirihi wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:


leliel Mirihi wrote:


Qie Niangao wrote:

I get it that most users just don't know any better, but because of that, the feature really belongs buried deep in Debug settings.

Try telling that to the TPV developers. For some reason some of them seem to think that if there's an option, no matter how obscure it is, no matter how small a minority of people actually need it, that it has to be front and center in the preferences window.

For one thing it is not an "obscure option."  Torley publicised it when he did his Video.

I like that the options are easily available in the preferences window.  I perve cam a lot.  I enjoy looking at how other's dress, etc.  So I have had to turn off "broadcast my target hints" to avoid the Drama Llama's.  Am I supposed to pretend that there aren't other Avatars present?  Am I not supposed to look around my surroundings?

 

I think you just proved my point there. Show look at is a debug option that's only useful for debugging the camera and or animations. The fact that TPVs had to add an option to prevent the viewer from sending the look at hints speaks volumes about how many people are using show look at and for what.

We could go round in circles over which came first, the rooster or the hen, but Torley's video outdates the TPV's.  So if we were to lay blame for popularising it, it would fall at his feet.  Plus 'don't send camera hint' is also a debug setting. 

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Call me confused-it certainly wouldn't be the first time-but why do people care so much about where others are looking?

Does it really matter what the setting is actually being used for, when it's a setting someone has to willingly turn on? Does every setting really have to posess some important ability, in order to be considered a good setting to have? And if that's the case, we've got a crap ton of settings that are really, really obscure. I'm surprised more don't complain about their existance.

With so many other settings and problems all viewers have that are opt out rather than opt in, and things even out of our control we can't turn off or on as needed...why on earth do people make a big deal out of a setting they willingly turned on. It's not like it's a setting that jumps up and bites us in the ass upon login. We have to knowingly and intentionally turn it on.

 

Just me rambling, I guess. Was chatting with a friend whose girl went off on him for looking at the hostess in a club last week and she's apparently still unhappy with him about it. Me being the awesome friend I am, laughed. Not at his plight, but at the simple fact that his girl is a drama llama and a prime example of what I said earlier. People's own insecurities is what makes this setting such a "bad" thing, or "obscure" if some want to call it that(I don't, in either instance). It has nothing to do with the setting itself or what it can or cannot do. It has everything to do with the individual using it.

Don't want to know your guy, girl, or whatever, is looking at someone else....don't turn it on. Problem solved.

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This thing is really amusing.  What comes to me I'm a constant perver, checking profiles, then checking avatars, how they look, what they wear.  Even when dancing with somebody I'm often camming around, looking at people.  My friend does the same. If we see something nice, something odd, something very interesting, we comment about it to each other. It's fun. I find it odd if somebody makes a drama out of it.  I'm pleased if somebody looks at me, maybe I have worn something what they have found interesting? It would be rather dissappointing if nobody had no interest at oneself.

Maybe some people have the strange idea that we should walk in SL half blinded, pretending that we don't see others?

Few times I have had comments like "Hey Coby, I know that you are looking at me."
Ok, you know.  I also know that you might know.  So what?
shrug-1.gif

Once I saw avatar flying up in the sky wearing very interesting looking outfit. Naturally I cammed on her to have a better look. In no time at all she IMed me telling "Please don't cam on me!  I know when people do that they can do some harmful things. Like cobybotting and other stuff."
Oh, really? :smileysurprised: :smileytongue:

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ImaTest wrote:

Call me confused-it certainly wouldn't be the first time-but why do people care so much about where others are looking?

If you went to a club with your girlfriend and spent the whole night staring at some other woman do you think she'd care? Would you blame her for being mad about it? Stop thinking about it in terms of sl and the issue becomes a lot more clear.

 

The problem isn't the people, it's the option. People turn this option on and think it's telling them something it's not, then they have a perfectly natural reaction to this misinterpretation. That's why I call it obscure, because most people have no idea what this option is showing them or how to interpret the info it's giving them.

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leliel Mirihi wrote:


ImaTest wrote:

Call me confused-it certainly wouldn't be the first time-but why do people care so much about where others are looking?

If you went to a club with your girlfriend and spent the whole night staring at some other woman do you think she'd care? Would you blame her for being mad about it? Stop thinking about it in terms of sl and the issue becomes a lot more clear.

 

The problem isn't the people, it's the option. People turn this option on and think it's telling them something it's not, then they have a perfectly natural reaction to this misinterpretation. That's why I call it obscure, because most people have no idea what this option is showing them or how to interpret the info it's giving them.

If her first reaction is anger, yes I would blame her. I'd blame a guy whose first reaction is anger too. In any sort of relationship communication could, and should, prevent anger from being felt to begin with. I'd expect a girl I was with, if she saw me looking at someone else, to ask me why I am doing it. And yes, it does happen, to guys and girls. I'd answer truthfully. Now if my answer were I thought the chick was hot or I just kept staring, I'd expect my gf to get pissed. I'd also probably expect a thwap upside the head, if not worse. That would then be a reasonable reaction. Anger isn't a reasonable first reaction to something like this, in my opinion. Whether it's rl or sl. Everyone has insecurities and there is nothing wrong with it. It is that insecurity that makes our innards twinge when we see someone we are with looking at another and wondering why. How we deal with our curiosity about it does matter though. Both in rl and in sl, I feel the same on the matter.

Yes the setting can be obscure to some, important to others and still yet be a nuisance to even more-just  like any other of the thousands of settings we have available. Yes it can be problematic when we don't understand how something works. It's still our responsibility to communicate properly with one another. We can't lay the blame of the anger a person feels when their dance partner's eyes seem to stray on the option being available. It seems a bit silly to say it's the option's fault. Of course the information about the option isn't as widely available as it should be, that much I agree on, for sure. Lots of things about various settings aren't well documented to the general public. Our reactions are still our own reactions. If I react poorly to something, I'm not going to blame it on the something. I'll blame it on my misunderstanding, misinterpretation or even just myself, before I'd blame it on the something.

For some reason that last part makes much more sense in my head than I think it may in print. I could be explaining it very poorly.

 

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