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Snickers Snook

Group Notice failures / Linden Lab failure

17 posts in this topic

I really don't know how to deal with this any more. Group notices (especially with attachments) are starting to fail at an alarming rate. I simply don't receive them. In checking the JIRA for the issue (JIRA SVC-1507), I see 409 votes for it with 300+ watching. Yet, Linden Lab has put the issue on "inactive" status which means that no more comments can be added and the issue cannot be edited. Instead, Maestro Linden demands "reproduceble steps" via opening a new issue. WTH?

I'm sorry Lindens but bugs are often a combination of things. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be trying to fix them or take additional info on them. Like maybe it only happens on certain sims? Or maybe it's just from certain groups that contain the letters "W" and "H". Who the heck knows? Or maybe it's just the time of day or general lag??

Closing off comments really shows me how little you value your own bug reporting process -- or us the customers.

What you really need is a "Here's what happened when the bug occured" type of reporting. For example, I was using XYZ viewer, time was 1:03PM SLT, at location ABC, Group Notice was supposed to come from DEF group sent by Avater Y. Then YOU guys can keep track of the commonalities rather than pushing "reproduceable steps" back on your customers. Which is just flat out a cop-out!

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And an update to this. A group notice was sent out from my Tiny Empires kingdom early this morning. I logged in about 3 hours after it was sent. Never saw it. Logged off about 2 hours later. Log back in 3 hours after that. 5 minutes later, the missing group notice pops-up. What is going on???

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I have the opposite lol, i get all the notices even when i have disabled recieving notices in some groups. Its real annoying since some groups send quet alot of notices and every time i log in i must disable them over and over again

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It's laughable. Maestro L doesn't seem to be the brightest bulb in LL's thinktank. He often shows total disregard to his job and the customers. For example the group notices bug: hwo the heck am I supposed to know at what time I failed to receive a notice? I didn't get it, so I won't even know about the bug if not some other group members would hint me to it. And the question answers itself, really; the bug occured in the moment when the notice was sent.

It's not our duty to do Maestro's job. Maybe if we would receive his salary we could negotiate about it. :smileyindifferent:

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I wish I understood better how the communication systems worked.  What is Server side and what is Client side.  And where the communication break downs are happening.

I had one group I was unable to set to stop receiving notices until the Large Group Fix was implemented.  The change to not recieve notices simply would not save across sessions until the fix.  Yet yesterday when I logged in there was a notice from the group waiting for me.  I did check my settings and they were still correct.  It was the only one I got.

But I am also seeing it in other categories.  I'll upload a picture and afterwards get the little notice, "you paid 10L to upload."  I'll close the notice (click "OK").   Later on after a relog the notice pops back up.  It doesn't matter if I relog immediately or if its several hours later.  It doesn't happen 100% of the time but it does happen with great frequency. 

In my general overview of this, my guess (and yes it is a guess) is that when you log in a check takes place between your settings as they are saved locally on your computer and on the Server.  The Server side settings should over ride the local settings.  But somehow it is not happening.

So yes there is a problem.

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Snickers

Group messages are suffering the same delay issues that have plagued group chat for some four years now and it ain't about to get better any time soon, for a variety of hard-and-software reasons that Linden Lab would never admit to.

I am only guessing but part of the reason for the JIRA being declared "inactive" might be the change (not a positive one by any means) to thr JIRA operation a little while ago.

There are no reliable repro steps and LL are well aware of this.  It is loosely connected to group size and the number of group members online, but since it took Baker Linden some 6 months to root out the base reason large groups wouldn't load member lists, I won't be holding my breath for a solution.  Yes, it is very frustrating not to receive group notices - some I never receive.  It is doubly frustrating to receive notices from groups that one has specifically disabled that function!

Orca

Maestro works hard, you know.  In fact he is one of the User facing Lindens more inclined to talk with us and even explain issues, so please don't antagonise him!  I know things ought to be better but yelling at random Lindens won't get the job done.:smileywink:

 

ETA: Looks like Perrie explains some things better than me!:smileyfrustrated:

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Snickers Snook wrote:

I really don't know how to deal with this any more. Group notices (especially with attachments) are starting to fail at an alarming rate. I simply don't receive them. In checking the JIRA for the issue (
, I see 409 votes for it with 300+ watching. Yet, Linden Lab has put the issue on "inactive" status which means that no more comments can be added and the issue cannot be edited. Instead, Maestro Linden demands "reproduceble steps" via opening a new issue. WTH?

The project the issue was reported under is inactive, the jira itself has been marked as needs more info, which Maestro asks for.

Why they need a new bug reported is something I can't explain, it may be to do with the awful decision to change how the Jira works, which is quite frankly abysmal and this particular Jira is a case in point of why the changes are awful, if someone else reports a new bug, all the people who commented in the original Jira, are unlikely to be able to read the new bug, so what are they supposed to do? All file a new bug report?

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Yes, that was my point exactly. Most message board, JIRA and WIKI  systems try hard to keep ALL feedback and comments under a single topic. Starting a new thread or topic is considered a huge breach of etiquette because it requires a lot more work on the part of participants and administrators to sift through things. It's almost as bad as someone posting with a subject like "I need help with my computer".

Yet here's Linden Lab doing the exact opposite. Encouraging people to start new bug reports on the exact same bug. It's crazy. I don't see any logic for it at all OTHER than discouraging people to file in the first place. It's really a "stick your head in the sand" Dilbert-esque approach. Further, it doesn't allow others to follow or track the bug. People will completely lose interest in the whole system -- which ultimately may what the Lab wants. :-(

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Snickers

I get the impression, working through many temperate, and some not-so-temperate comments, that in truth, Rod Humble does NOT want Second Life User/Resident involvement in SL's running in ANY form.

The castration of the JIRA is just one way that he is reducing our ablilty to communicate our experiences in any meaningful way to Linden Lab.  I do not think that it is a view shared by all or even many of the employees of Linden Lab who work on Second Life.  Some of the people that have been recently "let go" certainly do not share his view.

Whether or not Humble wants us to "lose interest" in the running of Second Life is in question, but it appears that he feels it would make his work easier if we just  shut up and played the games he makes for us.

Once again, it seems that Linden Lab is being run by someone with no grasp whatsoever of the true nature of Second Life.

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Yes, yes, yes! I thought it wuz just me and my habit of using about 3 or 4 diff viewers depending on what I am doing. However, the infuriating group message with attachments failure has increased alarmingly, so great post! I have missed lots of group gifts as a consequence. What is not so great is LL's lax and askew attitude to broken things and shiny new things. Still, nothing new there.

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Good post Ayesha. I think pointing the finger (middle or otherwise) at Humble is probably right. He's kind of coming across in various things I've read as Dilbert's pointy haired boss.

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Snickers,


This horridly annoying bug of Notice Attachments hanging and not being able to be opened and freezing functionality in the Group Notices as well has been around not for almost 1/2 a year.  ITS EXTREMELY FRUSTRATING... it reduces the ability for Event / Artist coordinators to effective send Landmarks to events to their group members and it reduces the attendance of audience members to events.

This bug has been reported countless times.  It has been fully documented in the LL and Phoenix JIRAs with tons of evidence and illustrations of how it fails.  It happens ALL THE TIME....  and even LL and Phoenix development staff suspect they know the root cause (a problem with cached sessions).  This problem was even brought up a couple times during the fall at the Friday Sim User group meetings - so I know 100% that Andrew and Simon are fully aware of this problem and its impact as we discussed this serious bug during the meetings.

Yet LL is spending NO TIME focusing on this high visibility issue.  They are so busy working on new features that annoying problems like this are supposedly just not fun for them to work on.

With Rodvik forcing the closing of public Resident JIRA's, there is now no avenue for SL Residents to express their frustration that this problem is still not being fixed.  There is no place now for SL Residents to check to see if LL has made any progress on this.  And so now LL staff can continually play the "dumb role" on this issue whenever asked.

The GAGGING of the RESIDENT JIRA has been a godsend for LL Support as they now can more effectively hide from serious SL bugs and pretend that problems like this dont exist.

I do not know how long it will take for LL to fix this bug they created in the summer.  I know that every night this bug is a major annoyance as I get a lot of Live Music Notifications coming to me with Landmarks attached that I cannot click.  The only thing that works are SLURLs but a lot of venue owners have not stopped sending attachements to the screwed up NOTICES system.

SO ATTENTION VENUE / CLUB / LIVE ACT / EVENT CORDINATORS:

Until LL ever takes time to fix this 1/2 year old bug.... Consider the SL NOTICE ATTACHMENT FEATURE A BROKEN FUNCTIONS.  DO NOT USE IT.  DO NOT SEND ATTACHEMENTS WITH YOUR NOTICES.  Many of your intended recipients cannot open your attached Landmark and are either focred to contact others to find out where the event is or simply delete the notice and not attend. (I know I have missed a lot events simply because I couldnt open the attachement).

 

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If Maestro Linden needs more information, NOTE TO MAESTRO....

The information around this bug is WELL KNOWN.  Go sit down and have a talk with Andrew / Simon Linden.  Go look at all the JIRAS on this bug.  Go have a chat with the Phoenix Development Team and look at their JIRAs on this bug.  The information you need has been handed to you on a silver platter from many sources. 

 

But stop playing the "we need more information" game and start figuring out how LL broken it in the summer and how they will fix it.  This bug has been documented to death and if there is still a Linden that does not know about this bug - it says a lot of just how out of touch LL staff are with their customers OR how far they are going to play the "we didn't know about this bug" game.

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For Maestro....

Here is my posted Firestorm JIRA on the issue with images to prove the problem:

http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-7252


Here is another related Firestorm Jira reporting the same problem:

http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-1248

From this jira you can follow links to related Jira's as well as a comment from the Phoenix team on the likely root cause:

 

Whirly Fizzle added a comment - 24/Sep/11, 11:57 AM +0200

This is actually a LL server issue plus a V2/3 flaw. See https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-7129

Clicking the group info link from the toast wont ever work either if the attatchment is dead, because the window isnt refreshed.
Opening the group info from the convo floater is the only workaround for now.

 


And as Snickers already mentioned, I am sure there are several individual Resident JIRAs in the new Rodvik Gagged Jira system that you can search for and gather information.

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well when it comes to this bug (and the hanging crashing sims * several avatars at events at the same time) it seems that we would have more hope if we get Herman Munster to look at / fix the problem.  LL seems determined to completely ignore this long standing an very frustrating bug they created.

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