xPx Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Ok, i think its time to make something to cure the Cancer of SL: gambling. Just before starting reading, i would like to highlight something: the wiki about wagering seems to be modified: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Policy_Regarding_Wagering_in_Second_Life . Quote: "It is a violation of this policy to wager in games in the Second Life® environment operated on Linden Lab servers if such games: [/b]Rely on chance or random number generation to determine a winner[b], OR Rely on the outcome of real-life organized sporting events, AND provide a payout in Linden Dollars (L$) OR Any real-world currency or thing of value. "Iam in SL for more than 5 years, and actually, about gambling, (and about many things as reports for griefing/copytbot), i have to admit that things have never been that worse cause residents/ reports arent heard. Seems there is less activity from linden lab to investigate fraudulent activity.*Past proved that actions of residents can be taken in consideration by linden lab:-for example: remember the red zone and security systems problems: After giant forum topic and many reports, linden lab fixed it in 2011, and i thanks them for it.Same, for example at the end of 2010 for gambling (called skill games..): linden lab forbidden the AUTO-ON system which was cheating people and making them more addicts. Thanks again to linden lab for their action.*What is the problem actually? After hard TOS changes about gambling in early 2011 (auto-on forbidden, real will from linden lab side to make game machines REAL skill games), LL changed their mind and permitted what they never permitted before: Apparition of machines with 3x3 cases (ZAP, ACE, and much more..), come back of the devil (with some DEAL versions for example..), come back of TOTTALLY RANDOM WHEELS machines (core, money vault..etc) and jackpot systems.....Never The RANDOM part have been far that way.Where is the skill notion when, ANYWAY random numbers generation (all actual games and based on random number generation ) IS the heart of those games. If only it would stay a "random" problem, but its NOT.LL also closed eyes on the CREATOR-OWNER buisness watching, and, in the past they were watching that. What does that mean? That mean that actually creators dont even need to hide on alts to start a MASSIVE buisness as owners of gambling sim, with machines THEY created themselves. The major problem of this is that nothing can be verified. If a owner-creator, want to change ratios of his machine during 24h to make all players lose more, they can, and as actually all machines have got a server part script (and not a script 100% in sl) with the server part you can imagine (and they do it) all you want: watching profit/lose of players that play the most, making win new machines to ATTRACT players , then making new machines lose after people have been attracted and think "new machines win"...etc...there isnt any limit with possibilities. We arent talking about small amounts of l$, we are talking one (perhaps THE) major buisness in sl. And some owner/creators, in the past and still actually strangely even when the cheat has been proved are strangely still here: i remember the case of someone who has one of the biggest gambling buisness in sl who cheated people in 2010 with bots, after massive reports from mentors bots have been removed: but what about owner, what about victims? nothing. Some (a lot) other cheating gambling sim owner didnt get a CHANCE like that (chance seems linked to the amount of l$ generated inworld by the buisness) and i remember jp linden was very fast at banning them, in the past...Notice that, as player, ancient owner (of a limited amount of machines- i stopped when i saw that owning machines was Complicity with an actually totally uncontrolled buisness), and sl resident for around 5 years i could add more to this message, unfortunatly its a Summary, and all into is true. I hope that will generate a serious and massive discution, for Second life future and for all victims of addiction and cheat throught gambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 xPx wrote: Ok, i think its time to make something to cure the Cancer of SL: gambling. Is that you, WE? Just before starting reading, i would like to highlight something: the wiki about wagering seems to be modified: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Policy_Regarding_Wagering_in_Second_Life . Quote: "It is a violation of this policy to wager in games in the Second Life® environment operated on Linden Lab servers if such games: [/b] Rely on chance or random number generation to determine a winner , OR Rely on the outcome of real-life organized sporting events, AND provide a payout in Linden Dollars (L$) OR Any real-world currency or thing of value. " That's not new. Not even close. This page was last modified on 8 February 2012, at 16:11. In addition, the history doesn't go past October '09, but... yeah. http://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Linden_Lab_Official%3APolicy_Regarding_Wagering_in_Second_Life&diff=532802&oldid=516352 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xPx Posted December 15, 2012 Author Share Posted December 15, 2012 Hi, yes, US, WE remember what happened with red zone, if residents are enought active to highlight problems of SL they can make the things change. If nobody complain of course cheat will be indefinite. "Hopefully"as gambling addict in past i only lost what i earnt inworld from my other inworld activities (but it was enought hundred thousands l$ to piss me off), but people who lose mass RL money, them have biggest problem, i remember a freind of me who had debts in rl cause gambling in sl, i once met a player who lost more than 60.000$ in 4 years, is that normal? SL changed a lot last year and if ll doesnt understand that people would better use their money in buy of lands or creations than gambling and feed illegal buisness, they are totally wrong.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyShark Flux Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 i usually just read the forum but, seriosuly i couldnt miss this topic... Thats is very simple: in 2008-2010 owners of machines had the possibility of configue all (jokers, devils..etc) so owners were entirely responsible of what they did: if they were earning too much people leave, if they lose too much people make it close sim..etc.. Actually ALL machines are configured by SERVER as xpx said and the only choice owner get is to change the score.. So machines are configured by server and RATIO is made by CREATORS ONLY. AND actually i must admit that the cheat working VERY WELL: all machines are setted up to make people win when they start playing then make them lose all. Dont try calculate, or waiting other players to lose it WONT work, you got a ratio per avatar and you start by earning a little then you lose all. That is a massive cheat to attract people then RIP them all and totally. You dont believe me? we compared with some owners and players and its always same thing. Than means that a little group of MAFIA creators are more powerful than ever. Everything is linked (dont seek mass differents owners its always SAME people with their alts who own all gambling sims) and only 4-5 big creators in SL have a monopoly on all gambling buisness in sl. Honnest gambling creators and owners arent anymore in sl cause they didnt earn enought , still remains the uber cheaters ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 xPx wrote: ... i remember a freind of me who had debts in rl cause gambling in sl, i once met a player who lost more than 60.000$ in 4 years, is that normal? No, it's not. But your friend could probably just as easily have lost that and more in a casino... or at a racetrack... or playing the lottery... etc. in RL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Simple solution: Don't play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyShark Flux Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I dont play anymore but your sense of justice could be more developped you seem getting an answer to all but dont talk about the problem itself (maybe you dont know enought about it and i figure it) or maybe you are owner of gambling machine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Actually... I spent a lot of time in casinos, and lost probably hundreds of USDs, starting shortly after my rez date... until the ban was put in place. ETA: And I've never owned a "gambling machine". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xPx Posted December 15, 2012 Author Share Posted December 15, 2012 In rl my country watches and regulate deeply all kind of gambling, in US, in 2007 FBi investigated about gambling here in SL, how the hell it survived like that, maybe you never been addicted to something (cigarette, gambling or wathever) but here there is no limit to make addicts stop (in my country players who become addicts are forbidden from casino if they lose to much) The problem of sl is that since middle 2011 nothing is verified, concerning gambling NOTHING I would be glad to get a discution with LL employees or show some proofs to JP linden (if its still him) but nothing , ll employees less online, reports (of all kind) not read, what the hell is happening at ll? Is that the jungle mode before a total crash of sl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyShark Flux Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Lol, you talking about red zone earlier, in 2010 i remember abuse of red zone by gamble sim owners: they were watching that way our Ips/alts in real time and were changing configuration of machines at the good time to make player lose all. ...the ones who did are still here, with giant sims so i guess it worked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 xPx wrote: ... in US, in 2007 FBi investigated about gambling here in SL, ... Yes, at the invitation of LL. ... maybe you never been addicted to something (cigarette, gambling or wathever) ... LOL! You don't know me at all! ... here there is no limit to make addicts stop... Gamblers Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyShark Flux Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 The main problem remain the cheat of player which consists by attract them then change ratio, as said before now its automatic with server (remember all money played is registered throught replay boards which creator is also and always same alt of creators...) There a major problem on how that cheat is organized and not verified by ll... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iCade Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 I have played a few games at casino sims. Never allowed myself to loose much, never came out with more L than I had before either. What leaves me puzzled is the fact that LL states that games need to involve skill. That's funny, all games I have played on these sims thus far are anything BUT skill. I was honestly told by someone vehemently defending such games that 'the machine needing human input' is the skill factor. What the actual fudge? Anyone can click a number, that is not skill. It puzzles me why these games are allowed at all, and it seems that in this case the TOS aren't enforced at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xPx Posted December 15, 2012 Author Share Posted December 15, 2012 Hi icade, you REALLY want the truth? Of course its total hypocrysis since 2007 fbi investigation cause THERE NEVER BEEN ANY SKILL, even when you **bleep** to a creator/owner he will answer you (90% sure) its not me! my machines are not cheated! its random! imagine how much some big owners earn with only two sims full of machines? 4millions l$ played each day at least 200-400k per day profit... calculate with those who rent **bleep**ty dummy machines to people and get 50% profit (without paying land ,so cause they rent machine they got in copy...? those people (around 5 in all sl perhaps, of course they not a lot) minimum 2000usd/day so that is the biggest buisness in sl , and since middle 2011 they can do everything. But dont think starting a buisness is good option for a noname who just come, the biggest gambling sims have monopoly and enought weight to increase all oponents. anyway isnt that them who pay the most the advertise thingie in general search otpion,? ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 xPx wrote: 4millions l$ played each day at least 200-400k per day profit... calculate with those who rent **bleep**ty dummy machines to people and get 50% profit (without paying land ,so cause they rent machine they got in copy...? those people (around 5 in all sl perhaps, of course they not a lot) minimum 2000usd/day so that is the biggest buisness in sl , and since middle 2011 they can do everything. I'd ask where you get your stats from, but why bother. We all know you just pulled them out of the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xPx Posted December 15, 2012 Author Share Posted December 15, 2012 Go to sim dynasty gaming, already 1.400.000l$ played since midnight you see that on the replay board, so, 17hours left that means 1.400.000l$ played in 7hours, calculate the rest. On the average 4millions , get between 5% and 10% profit (of course if there is not alt of owners in bigger contests or alts who get random money giver..) that make at least 200k/day just for a 2 sims buisness... Thats just an example, of course some sims can be left by players but they dont survive a lot. Profit split buisness is different, its pure profit and as machines are everywhere in sl... no limit (and to it you add the fact some profit split agents are also the creator..who get a % also....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodSlaughter Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 The friend who made me discover sl lost 100k yesterday, omg, he never had any chance machines were only losing, now as i see this topic i realize thats tricked. Sl seems to be a total mess with laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffin Ceawlin Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Stupid is as stupid does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pussycat Catnap Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 LLs gambling policy isn't set by LLs, but by the US federal government... The SL policy is there to keep the feds from coming in and flipping the off switch on the entire grid. You want it to change, you want to add one more vice to SL, you better go petition Congress first. That said your post was unclear to me - I couldn't tell if you were advocating for bringing gambling back into SL, or noting that you think people are sneaking it in, or something else... I'm not actually sure what you were going for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenbro Utu Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 Does anyone here smell alts besides me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
161488303349 Posted December 15, 2012 Share Posted December 15, 2012 is 2 things going on with this if do the math on the gameplay of the games allowed in SL then can show that the player always have the advantage bc of the skill factor. the player gets a choice where to click on the boards and the order in which they click is very marginal stuff but is same as blackjack in that sense. math wise. like 8 deck shoe + predom basic strategy + running count and player always come out on top + so can easy make a bot army that grinder these machines. is what happened to the machine makers/owners in the early days. some owners take a real big bath to defeat the bot armies creator/owners adjust the algo so that the ordering/arrangement of the tiles/numbers is not uniformly distributed. like not random + is a rort for the unsuspecting player this who thinks they getting a square deal. so dont play on them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Kenbro Utu wrote: Does anyone here smell alts besides me? You are not alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Deakins Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 Bump to scroll the spam down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoshi Kenin Posted December 16, 2012 Share Posted December 16, 2012 ...all residents are equal under LL Tos...but some creators of virtual fruit machines , sorry.... I mean residents, are more equal than others. The whole inworld gambling situation is a farce, imo, and it is a foolish resident who plays these amusingly titled 'games of skill'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melita Magic Posted December 18, 2012 Share Posted December 18, 2012 16 wrote: is a rort for the unsuspecting player this who thinks they getting a square deal. so dont play on them Sounds like rigged gambling to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
YouTube
Flickr
Recommended Posts
Please take a moment to consider if this thread is worth bumping.
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now