Capping IMs... a rant, and a question

[Tari Landar]

Ok, so I know that the whole "send IMs to email" doesn't always send them all, everything has it's faults and it's not 100% guaranteed to always work, though I think the fail rate is significantly low. But I have to say, what kind of creator, that wants to be taken seriously, lets their IMs cap and does NOT select this option? That's actually an honest question, I would really love to know why some people don't choose to let things go to email. So those of you who don't choose this, could you please help me understand why? (I swear I'm not being snarky, it is an honest question despite my frustration)

I have had communication from people that was sent to IM cap plenty of times myself. That's exactly why I set things to go to email. Because things cap so easily and the limit is so low. I just don't understand why someone who knows they cap daily, would think it's an acceptable excuse when there is a helpful option.

I'm a pretty forgiving person, I offer one heck of a mountain of leeway for people to be honest. Probably way more than I should. But there comes a time as both a customer and a creator that I sit here scratching my head and thinking "you're really going to blame the customer for that?" when someone claims "I didn't get the IM". Whether it's in regards to a problem or just a general communication. Isn't it in poor taste to constantly say that to customers? Or am I way off base? I have no qualms admitting so if I am, lol.

I am admittedly a little bit frustrated this evening after dealing with three creators who gave me the exact same line in the last two weeks. One of them it was in regards to a problem, which I have now been made whole on finally. The other two were just general communication, so definitely not urgent in the least. But it's still annoying to be treated as if it's somehow my fault they didn't get my communication. I don't always believe they didn't, to be honest. Especially when it comes in the form of a NC I can clearly see they've accepted. In the last 4 years I have had communication go to neither my email or my IM, twice. Neither of those times did I treat the person with disrespect. In both cases I explained that IMs cap, but I have them sent to email, however they didn't get there either, so I was just as confused as to where they went. But not once did I blame the other person. I simply fixed whatever was wrong, apologized for the delay and did what I could to make them happy. Blah. I think all my years working customer service, and owning actual businesses in rl has skewed my view a bit. Maybe I expect too much of people, and expect that they'd handle things in the same manner I sometimes think are just common sense.

[Pamela Galli]

I have read threads before where ppl gave their reasons but I can't remember what they were, and did not make sense to me at the time.

A corollary question: Why, oh why, when I BEG for IMs instead of notecards, which, I explain in profile, autoresponse, and email "vacation" response, I cannot read when offline, do people continue to send them to me?  Like you, I really want to know, but I do not want to sound snarky so I don't ask. I just can't imagine thinking a notecard is an easier way to ask a question than an IM.

[Deja Letov]

I can't answer your question as to why someone wouldn't have this turned off but I can tell you that the delivery of capped IM's fails ALL THE TIME. Like constantly. A few of the merchants here awhile back were testing trying to figure out what was going on and I know some in fact were receiving all offline messages up until the point of the cap and then they stopped. This is a huge problem and while it may be frustrating as a customer, it's just as frustrating with a merchant too. But I wouldn't get all upset and claim to not believe merchants if they say it's happening because we've talked about it alot on this forum and it happens quite a lot more than people think and we've been complainting about it for a long time.

[Deja Letov]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

I have read threads before where ppl gave their reasons but I can't remember what they were, and did not make sense to me at the time.

A corollary question: Why, oh why, when I BEG for IMs instead of notecards, which, I explain in profile, autoresponse, and email "vacation" response, I cannot read when offline, do people continue to send them to me?  Like you, I really want to know, but I do not want to sound snarky so I don't ask. I just can't imagine thinking a notecard is an easier way to ask a question than an IM.

---

Probably because so many merchants ask for notecards, so they might be assuming you would prefer it too. I still like notecards because I still have issues with not receiving offline IM's to my email so a notecard I usually like because those don't seem to cap on me. Of course...it doesn't fix my issues I sometimes have with lost inventory items or never getting them or accidentally declining, etc.

 

[Tari Landar]

---

Deja Letov wrote:

I can't answer your question as to why someone wouldn't have this turned off but I can tell you that the delivery of capped IM's fails ALL THE TIME. Like constantly. A few of the merchants here awhile back were testing trying to figure out what was going on and I know some in fact were receiving all offline messages up until the point of the cap and then they stopped. This is a huge problem and while it may be frustrating as a customer, it's just as frustrating with a merchant too. But I wouldn't get all upset and claim to not believe merchants if they say it's happening because we've talked about it alot on this forum and it happens quite a lot more than people think and we've been complainting about it for a long time.

---

Oh I know it does fail, I won't discount that. There are also times it seems to act up worse than others, with no rhyme or reason. It may not happen to me as much, but I know it happens to others, I've seen it. But some people claim it happens way too often for it to be believable(like, thye only miss any negative communication, but they manage seeing all the positive, lol I've seen people pull that one in the past). Me, I like to send NC and IM, just in case, unless a creator has a specific preference(I check profiles). If the first one goes ignored, and I see the creator has been on, I'll try again. When this happens days in a row...that's the point I start to not believe someone when they say they got NONE of the communication. That's not likely, not even in sl, lol. Especially after sending a NC and getting the "accepted" message(which rarely works as it is, and only typically when you're on the same sim, but does still happen outside of that instance, rarely). I find it hard to believe someone can contact someone for days, and that person not receive one of the bits of communication. Impossible? Absolutely not, but definitely not as likely as some seem to think.

I get upset at merchants also when they blame their customers for the fact that they didn't get the communication too. That just rubs me the wrong way, and is a personal peeve. I do my best to never blame my customers (rl or sl) for anything, even if it may actually be their fault. For me, that's just part of good business though.

 

[Pamela Galli]

The thing is that things (such as notecards) sent by scripted objects will cap when IMs do. I will get a notice that someone sent a notecard but I don't get the notecard because it will cap.

[Rya Nitely]

I don't like notecards but can't stop people sending them either. The first line in my profile says 'IM me, I will respond'. At no time in my 5 years have I been told that I didn't respond to an offline IM.

I get offline IMs everyday, and notecards too. Often my partner tells me that I should have received this IM or notecard from a customer, and I can confirm to him that yes I did get it. So if I have missed any, I am unaware of it.

My partner and I are both active merchants and neither of us have had this problem. Not sure why others do.

Edit to add: I send IMs to email

Your main problem, as I see it, wasn't that merchants have IMs capped, it was that you were dealing with merchants who have poor customer service skills.

[Tamara Artis]

Some people use same mail account for SL and for RL, SL means spam and cleaning your inbox every day if you want to have some control and insight to whats going on there. So, I believe that some people don't find SL that important, its that attitude "if its really important to you, you'll contact me again" and they just let offlines go lost. 

Then, if you have that option checked, and offlines go on your mail, and you have same mail for rl and sl, its really easy to miss any message! 

I have more contact options for people; mail (different than the one i registered so offlines go on another one), feeds messages, facebook, flickr and of course theres always that other mail account where i get my offline IMs and group notices. Now, I get "delivery capped" every few days, and I try to login as often as I can, to avoid it. The system is wrong, there is no rule in what offlines go on mail, and why only some of them go there? If I had 3 offline IMs, why there is one in my mailbox and inworld, and other 2 only inworld? On every login my screen looks like someone is attacking me, and if I crash before reading all messages, they are lost forever.

It is too much to expect from people, to handle things the way you, me or any other person does, we can only get dissapointed if we do it like that.. But SL is a big world and if you don't like how one person handles things go on and find another one that suits your preferences:) 

[Darrius Gothly]

I'm one of those that has selected "Send IMs to Email" and the failure rate is very low .. if there are any failures at all. There are a lot of scripted devices around the grid that send me IMs all the time, and I get each and every one of them. Even when I've been offline for days, I still get every one. (knock on wood).

I can also reply to IMs that arrive via email, I just make sure the ONLY text in the reply is .. my reply. If I leave anything in rhe reply from the original email (since my email client puts a copy of the original in the reply first) then it shows up as mostly computer garbage at the other person's Viewer and also seems to fail more often on sending the reply to them.

@Pamela - I think some of the reason folks send Notecards is because of all the stuff they need to say. Usually the notecard contains a copy of the Transaction, things they need to tell me about what was going on or why they didn't get whatever they bought .. etc.

I REALLY want an option that sends Notecards to me via Email too. If somehow the SL Servers would auto-accept Notecards then read their contents and put it into an Email message .. OH GAWD I would love that.

I have noticed though that when people send me a Notecard, I get an email for the event .. AND I can reply to that email and it arrives at the sender. I usually give them my email address, ask that they send the Notecard contents to me via email and promise not to disclose or share their address with anyone for any reason. Even with that request, about 1 out of 20 actually does email me the details. Most either don't see it or are so cautious about their address being known that they'd rather wait however long before I can get in-world and read the notecard. I can understand the caution, but it just means they're going to have to wait ... and I HATE making people wait.

[Tari Landar]

Yes it was totally a two part rant, lol. One part dealing with people who simply have poor communication skills in general, both customer service related and generally speaking.I did say I was admittedly frustrated, in fact I still am, but less so. It's not really an angry frustration either, if that helps put perspective on it. I've been accused of being "too nice" as a merchant whilst someone watches a customer lash out at me, both in rl and sl. Maybe I just have a weirdly thick skin, but I do, in probably 99.5% of cases feel that "the customer is always right..even if they aren't yet a customer..and even moreso if they're not right". That is, very clearly, just my own issue. But it's not one I plan on fixing anytime soon. I don't consider it a character flaw of mine. In fact, I'm pretty proud of it to be honest. My rl businesses before I sold them off would have never made it where they still are today if I'd taken a "brush 'em all off" attitude. So, I just can't do it, even in sl, even though my store is bitty and really just more of a hobby than anything right now because I haven't gotten back into creating after being gone for a few months. But I do have to accept that not everyone does things my way lol.

I was also trying to understand why some people don't opt in for the one option we do have. Despite it's faults, and the fact that nothing is 100%, so there can and likely will be some failure rate, it's still an option available to everyone. Especially if you cap every single day. I just honestly don't understand it, and even after reading replies, I still don't. It's extremely easy to change your email related to sl, so, that doesn't make sense to me either(I've had to do it myself when I opened my store). You can have an sl only email, so your offlines and other sl related stuff, go there. I DO understand spam, and how much people loathe it(don't we all? lol) So that's why I'd say to use a different email address for sl than you'd use for all your other stuff, if you're worried about spam. It's not like email addresses cost money these days

Hmm, anyway, I appreciate all the feedback. I do love reading how others deal with things, or how they think. I like hearing other opinions. I'm probably in my own boat on that one too, lol. But I do appreciate it and try my hardest to see things from all sides and not get frustrated with people over silly things. Sometimes I do anyway though, lol. That's why I'm trying to understand why not using that option makes sense to some. I was hoping there'd be people here who don't use it and could shed some light. I could use an education on the matter because where I stand now(admittedly ignorant as to the reasoning) it's got me scratching my head.

 

[Trinity Yazimoto]

hey ! Are you kidding ?

SL cap every ims or group notices after 25 sent. this mean that if you have a total of 25 ims AND group notices sent to you after you logged off, you wont recieve anything in your email box.http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Instant_Message. (When a Resident is offline, up to 25 messages will be stored and delivered at the next login. This limit includes inventory offers, group notices, group invitation and IMs. All messages above this limit will becapped and not delivered.) .This mean also, that after 25 nc sent when offline, we cant get anymore.

This is the official SL version. Because, in my case, some days, my ims and group notices get capped right away after i get offline.  And i ALWAYS have the same message when i log about ims too much numerous and got capped. So yeah i dont get even the 25 promised ones... even for this SL is not able to work good. 

(But weirdly and also gladly, this doesnt include all the notifications i get from differents objects in my store, like my subscribe o matic, gifts, lucky board, counter, clever info sign vendors etc....since i get all notifications from them in my mailbox. What allow me to guess what is happening in my inwolrd store even if im not online.)

 

Do you honnestly think that we, merchants, do not settle our ims to drop in our mailbox ? Do you think we are stupid and ignorant enough to not do it .? Of course, we know and of course we do. We even answer from our mailbox if we cant log right away to answer sm1 when we get this IMs in our mailbox. BUT WE CANT ANSWER TO SOMETHING WE DONT RECIEVE.

Actually even some of the nc that are sent to me or whatever other items are ate by SL.I (before reaching to the 25)

This is why, i ask in my profile to pp, to drop a nc in the clever info shop sign i have in my store, that is like an inworld mailbox and where im sure i will get the nc. After this, if pp still want to send me ims or send nc, its up to them, but i wont be responsible for something im not guilty and i dont have any way to fix.

(Also note that i even  disabled notice from almost all groups i have on my list in order to not fill my 25 emails allowance... and even with this... i dont reach, i never reach the 25 ims and group notices or whatever sent items, but my ims are still capped after lets say 5 or 6 emails)

n my case, im connected to my mailbox, wherever i am, almost everyday. I do it from my rl work pc, from my phone, or whatever. i have also a sl client on my phone for logging in sl from it and answer pp if needed.

I was like you at first, i always thought that merchants that was writing in their profile that their IMs are capped were somewhat pretentious.... Now im wearing same shoes as them, i see it in a different way. 

Now. if you know the fix for empeach SL to cap and eat almost everything that is sent to me when im offline, please tell me... i'll be more than happy to know and i can promise i will right away use your fix ! :smileyhappy:

ps to Darius : ive indeed saw in your mp you have an item that is made to be able to read nc from mailbox, but i guess nc need to be dropped in an inworld mailbox and not directly to my profile. Ill contact you later to have some more info about it. Be carefull lol, if you are offline and my im is capped i wont have any indulgence hehehhehehehe.... just teasing :smileywink:

[Rya Nitely]

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

 

Do you honnestly think that we, merchants, do not settle our ims to drop in our mailbox ? Do you think we are stupid and ignorant enough to not do it .? Of course, we know and of course we do. We even answer from our mailbox if we cant log right away to answer sm1

when

we get this IMs in our mailbox. BUT WE CANT ANSWER TO SOMETHING WE DONT RECIEVE.

 

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OMG

[Tari Landar]

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

hey ! Are you kidding ?

Kidding about what? Did you really read what was written?

SL cap every ims or group notices after 25 sent. this mean that if you have

a total

of 25 ims AND group notices sent to you after you logged off, you wont recieve anything in your email box.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Instant_Message

. (

When a Resident is offline, up to 25 messages will be stored and delivered at the next login. This limit includes 

inventory

 offers, 

group

 notices, group invitation and IMs. All messages above this limit will becapped and not delivered.)

.This mean also, that after 25 nc sent when offline, we cant get anymore.

This is the official SL version. Because, in my case, some days, my ims and group notices get capped right away after i get offline.  And i ALWAYS have the same message when i log about ims too much numerous and got capped. So yeah i dont get even the 25 promised ones... even for this SL is not able to work good.

 

(But weirdly and also gladly, this doesnt include all the notifications i get from differents objects in my store, like my subscribe o matic, gifts, lucky board, counter, clever info sign vendors etc....since i get all notifications from them in my mailbox. What allow me to guess what is happening in my inwolrd store even if im not online.)

What did that rant have to do with anything? I didn't say that messages don't cap. I said, in fact multiple times, that they DO. The limit is extremely low, and has been for as long as I've been here. I hate it too. That's why I'm glad we have an option. One, apparently, some people don't use.

 

Do you honnestly think that we, merchants, do not settle our ims to drop in our mailbox ? Do you think we are stupid and ignorant enough to not do it .? Of course, we know and of course we do. We even answer from our mailbox if we cant log right away to answer sm1

when

we get this IMs in our mailbox. BUT WE CANT ANSWER TO SOMETHING WE DONT RECIEVE.

Stop yelling like a loon, no need for that lol. You're replying to another merchant btw. If you had read you would see that, indeed some merchants do not have ims sent to their email. Hence my confusion as to WHY they make this choice. I've spoken to three in the last two weeks who don't use that option. There are also others who have posted and said as much, they've seen them too. So clearly there are merchants who do not take advantage of that option. I never said it was stupid or ignorant not to, but it is a choice I don't understand. Don't put words into my posts that weren't there to begin with,

Actually even some of the nc that are sent to me or whatever other items are ate by SL.

I (before reaching to the 25)

This is why, i ask in my profile to pp, to drop a nc in the clever info shop sign i have in my store, that is like an inworld mailbox and where im sure i will get the nc. After this, if pp still want to send me ims or send nc, its up to them, but i wont be responsible for something im not guilty and i dont have any way to fix.

(Also note that i even  disabled notice from almost all groups i have on my list in order to not fill my 25 emails allowance... and even with this... i dont reach, i never reach the 25 ims and group notices or whatever sent items, but my ims are still capped after lets say 5 or 6 emails)

n my case, im connected to my mailbox, wherever i am, almost everyday. I do it from my rl work pc, from my phone, or whatever. i have also a sl client on my phone for logging in sl from it and answer pp if needed.

I was like you at first, i always thought that merchants that was writing in their profile that their IMs are capped were somewhat pretentious.... Now im wearing same shoes as them, i see it in a different way. 

How is this like me? Really, where did I say anything like this? I don't think that whatsoever. Not even close. Again, to reiterate, I said that IMs do cap, easily. It happens to me all the time too. I never once said they were anything of the sort. I am a merchant.

Now. if you know the fix for empeach SL to cap and eat almost everything that is sent to me when im offline, please tell me... i'll be more than happy to know and i can promise i will right away use your fix ! :smileyhappy:

ps to Darius : ive indeed saw in your mp you have an item that is made to be able to read nc from mailbox, but i guess nc need to be dropped in an inworld mailbox and not directly to my profile. Ill contact you later to have some more info about it. Be carefull lol, if you are offline and my im is capped i wont have any indulgence hehehhehehehe.... just teasing :smileywink:

---

I don't know what you're ranting and raving about up there as most had nothing at all to do with what I was asking about, but go back and actually read my post please. Some of your points make absolutely no sense. I've answered them above in bold. I'm going to guess there's some language barrier because you seem to have read everything I said as the exact opposite, lol.

I AM a merchant, and have been for over 4 years here now. Your assumption that I am somehow putting down merchants for their desire for IM or NC, stating that IMs cap, or anything you've mentioned, is really way way off base, lol. I didn't say ANY of that. I am frustrated with the ones who have poor customer service, but the thread was really two fold. One fold is my frustration with people who just generally communicate badly. The second fold would be my desire to understand why some people do not use the IM to email option.

[Tari Landar]

---

Rya Nitely wrote:

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

 

Do you honnestly think that we, merchants, do not settle our ims to drop in our mailbox ? Do you think we are stupid and ignorant enough to not do it .? Of course, we know and of course we do. We even answer from our mailbox if we cant log right away to answer sm1

when

we get this IMs in our mailbox. BUT WE CANT ANSWER TO SOMETHING WE DONT RECIEVE.

 

---

OMG

---

I can't explain why but that made me giggle.

 

[Trinity Yazimoto]

yes lol, sorry this is a topic that get me really upset because when someone says that ims capped (or every else items not delivery) is pure lie or because of ignorance about sending our ims in emails this mean that all pp that have the ims capped sentence on their profile are lier or ignorant. And of course, i dont agree with that...Its nice from pp to come here and try to give us lessons telling us "hey ! do you know you can send ims to your emails ?" but thanks, we know already this. and again, we cant be responsable of SL failure. I know some pp doesnt have ims and items capped and even when its over the sl limit. i guess so this pp has more recieving allowance than me. The capped issue is far from being the only one failure in SL. But we are not responsable for this. and all we can do is just complain about it.

Btw, of course, this is not an excuse for bad customers support. But despite the capped issue, a merchant can still have a great custom support, at the only condition indeed, he/she's aware of the customer request.  Merchants with bad customers support skills are existing indeed, just like in rl. But the prob is really more wide than the capped items issue. Anyway, you wont change them, but you still can avoid them and put them in your "never purchase from" list. Its what i do. Merchants are rl persons, if they behave bad in rl, i guess they do it also in sl. I dont know any fix for this except stoping purchasing from them. :smileywink:

 

[Trinity Yazimoto]

---

Tari Landar wrote:

Ok, so I know that the whole "send IMs to email" doesn't always send them all, everything has it's faults and it's not 100% guaranteed to always work, though I think the fail rate is significantly low. But I have to say,  

1.

what kind of creator, that wants to be taken seriously, lets their IMs cap and does NOT select this option?

That's actually an honest question, I would really love to know why some people don't choose to let things go to email. So those of you who don't choose this, could you please help me understand why? (I swear I'm not being snarky, it is an honest question despite my frustration)

2.

I

have had communication from people that was sent to IM cap plenty of times myself. That's exactly why I set things to go to email. Because things cap so easily and the limit is so low. I just don't understand why someone who knows they cap daily, would think it's an acceptable excuse when there is a helpful option.

3.I'm a pretty forgiving person, I offer one heck of a mountain of leeway for people to be honest. Probably way more than I should. But there comes a time as both a customer and a creator that I sit here scratching my head and thinking "you're really going to blame the customer for that?" when someone claims "I didn't get the IM". Whether it's in regards to a problem or just a general communication. Isn't it in poor taste to constantly say that to customers? Or am I way off base? I have no qualms admitting so if I am, lol.

 

(bold and numbers are from me)

So ok, i must be missing something, but so, you will forgive me because english is not my english language.

1- So according to your question, i will add the one that comes to me right away . and what happens about the creators that does select this option and still have their im capped ? The way you expose the problem imply that pp will think that automatically, when a merchant will say ims are capped pp will think they dont use this option about mailbox. How do you want pp knows if a merchant use it or not ? pp doesnt know. but according to your question pp will automaticaly think 'ok, this merchant says ims are capped, so he/she's ignorant enough to not know they can use their mailbox feature.

2-you say you have ims capped plenty of time and so this is why you use the mailbox option. i answer to you , i use the mailbox option, and my ims and delivery items

still

cap most of the time and often since the first im. Does this make sense to you.? Can you consider that what is happening to you, how sl behave with you, doesnt happen for others automatically. you says at the end of your paragraph, "

I just don't understand why someone who knows they cap daily, would think it's an acceptable excuse when there is a helpful option." 

I can answer to you, that im someone who knows her ims cap daily, despite the fact i use mailbox option. im just wondering if you can understand pp like me and if you know an helpfull option for me aswell...

3. Are you really sure that all the merchants that gives this answer hasnt the mailbox option on.? Because i can say it too, and i can swear to you my mailbox option is on.

So ok, i ve prob misunderstood your really meaning, and again i apologize for it since english isnt my native language (i try my best, but i know my english is far from being perfect indeed). but i really think you havent been really carefull in the way you said it.. ive read several times your original post, and i can tell you that translated in french (my native language) it can be understood in diff ways and i think that, the way you explained things can make pp make generalisation and understand badly your purpose. 

Again, im sorry to have been upset, but this is not the first thread i read in the forum about this and as we say here in france, id say that this start to "run on my head".

I know a lot of pp thinks we use the capped pb as a pretext and ive been afraid you added a coin in the machine. So its ok, sorry for having misunderstood your real purpose, but im pretty sure that with the way you explained it i m not the only one.

This said, i agree of course with you, on what you said about merchants without any custom support skills :smileywink:. And i hope you havent been too much scared by my first post lol, i know, and i easily admited it, im a often hot-headed lol. sorry for this. i honnestly apologize for this .

 

[Lasher Oh]

I agree. Notecards are the single most troublesome inefficient method of communication. I go out of my way to advise customer NOT to send me notecards but for some ingrained reason they mostly think that they are the  guaranteed way to grab attention.

Worse still (for me) is the dumb stupid 'My Second Life' web based communication channel which I flatly refuse to use or read. I tell my customers upfront NOT to use that channel but still a few attempt it (almost 100% newbies)

^L^

[Tari Landar]

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

yes lol, sorry this is a topic that get me really upset because when someone says that ims capped (or every else items not delivery) is pure lie or because of ignorance about sending our ims in emails this mean that all pp that have the ims capped sentence on their profile are lier or ignorant. And of course, i dont agree with that...Its nice from pp to come here and try to give us lessons telling us "hey ! do you know you can send ims to your emails ?" but thanks, we know already this. and again, we cant be responsable of SL failure. I know some pp doesnt have ims and items capped and even when its over the sl limit. i guess so this pp has more recieving allowance than me. The capped issue is far from being the only one failure in SL. But we are not responsable for this. and all we can do is just complain about it.

Btw, of course, this is not an excuse for bad customers support. But despite the capped issue, a merchant can still have a great custom support, at the only condition indeed, he/she's aware of the customer request.  Merchants with bad customers support skills are existing indeed, just like in rl. But the prob is really more wide than the capped items issue. Anyway, you wont change them, but you still can avoid them and put them in your "never purchase from" list. Its what i do. Merchants are rl persons, if they behave bad in rl, i guess they do it also in sl. I dont know any fix for this except stoping purchasing from them. :smileywink:

 

---

OK again, you didn't actually read anything I said. I did not in any way shape or form say that anyone saying their ims capped is lying. Not once did I say that. I don't know where you keep getting that from. No one was coming here to "give you lessons" on anything. Why do you seem to think that's what I was doing? Although, not everyone in sl knows about this option. So your assumption that everyone already knows, is wrong. Some people actually don't know about it. But that's neither here nor there, I wasn't posting to inform people of that.

I DID say that I don't believe some people when they say they got absolutely none of the communications sent-when it happens over several days, while they are online, after getting an "accepted" message when they accept the notecard I send. Yes, I don't believe those people, lol. Also, it's possible for someone to build their own selves a reputation for always claiming "I didn't get the IM/NC", etc.. if it happens often enough, it's entirely possible someone may not believe them too. Not because it's impossible, but there does come a time when something is less likely, less probable, over time, sometimes.

Again, I AM a merchant, you seem to be replying as if I am not and have absolutely no experience or clue what it's like. I shouldn't have to statew it repeatedly but somehow I feel the need to, to explain. I am NOT coming from a customer point of view only, I am coming from both a merchant and a customer point of view. My opinion doesn't change based on which title I'm wearing-customer or merchant. It remains the same, regardless.

You really should read what I wrote, you still seem to think I said the exact opposite of everything I said, lol, and I don't know why.

Oh well I don't think I can make it any clearer or explain it any better, lol. I'm still interested in reading others' opinions on the actual topics though. Never know when you can learn something.

 

[Trinity Yazimoto]

again lol, i think i know better than everyone else if ive all read your posts and how many times i did.

maybe ok, ive misunderstood some of your purpose i can agree on this, indeed.

but on your side can you envisage that maybe, (i only say maybe), the way you explained the topic could drive pp to misunderstanding or generalization ? 

I got what you said about your issue with the 3 merchants you mentionned since my first read, but what bothered me was the way you explained it, bec imho, it can add a coin in the machine to the non rare feeling that ims capped are pure stupidity or false pretext. I think you didnt got my meaning either, maybe prob because my non perfect english. (sorry again). 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

I know you are frustrated and I admit that the merchants you referred to didn't handle this issue properly.  However IM's going to email are no guarantee of good service.  I have had just as many problems with merchants who are set up that way as those that aren't.  In fact I recently had a horrific encounter with a very well known merchant that is set up as you are but took over six weeks to even reply and who never solved the issue.

Despite the fact that you label this thread a rant, and you say your aren't snarky but are (example: "... I have to say, what kind of creator, that wants to be taken seriously, lets their IMs cap and does NOT select this option?") , I will tell you why I don't have IM's go to my email.

I take extra care to deliver a first rate quality product with well thought out detailed instructions and trouble shooting information.  As a result I don't have many calls for support.

I have business hours M-F when clients and customers can IM me, or they can send me a notecard anytime which i will respond to generally in 24 hours. I actually prefer notecards.  The support questions I generally get are not simple. I get more information on notecards, which allows me to reply on the same card with a complete well thought out answer, which a lot of time needs to be lengthy, and return it.  The customer then has a record of my answer for future reference.  If the support requires more, I set up a mutually convenient appointment time for us to meet so I can resolve the situation.

One of my businesses I recognize requires more support, due to its nature, which would result in my IM's getting capped..  I have a staff of well trained CSR's that will respond in the support group during a wide variety of hours around the clock. The majority of time the problem is user error and they can easily explain how to correct it.  If they are unable to resolve a problem then they pass it to me or my partner in this business and we take care of it, again usually within 24 hours.The information that comes with the product and my profile explain to the customer to contact my CSR's through the group for the fastest results.

My method works for me and my customers.  I have been told by them many times that I provide top notch service.  I have never had anyone complain to me about not being able to get the support they need.

My method also is more than reasonable.  In RL where the amount of money involved is far greater, you can't contact a business owner 24/7.  You can't buy something at a store and call them when they are closed and speak to anyone.  Ninety five percent of the time you aren't even given the opportunity to leave a message.  You get a message to call back during business hours.

The beauty of SL is that you can run your business as you please and let the market decide if you have made the right choices.  You choose to let your IM's go to email, I don't.  That doesn't make me a bad business owner, as you imply in your posts.  If it did, I wouldn't  be doing business in SL successfully for six years now.

 

[Ciaran Laval]

---

Lasher Oh wrote:

I agree. Notecards are the single most troublesome inefficient method of communication. I go out of my way to advise customer NOT to send me notecards but for some ingrained reason they mostly think that they are the  guaranteed way to grab attention.

---

Notecards can work well, they help people make their point in one message and get to the point, I'm yet to receive a notecard that merely said "Hello", as opposed to offline IM's where people will often send a hello message and then give no more information.

The bigger issue with notecards is that you don't know the contents of a notecard until you get inworld.

 

[Tari Landar]

---

Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

again lol, i think i know better than everyone else if ive all read your posts and how many times i did.

maybe ok, ive misunderstood some of your purpose i can agree on this, indeed.

but on your side can you envisage that maybe, (i only say maybe), the way you explained the topic could drive pp to misunderstanding or generalization ? 

I got what you said about your issue with the 3 merchants you mentionned since my first read, but what bothered me was the way you explained it, bec imho, it can add a coin in the machine to the non rare feeling that ims capped are pure stupidity or false pretext. I think you didnt got my meaning either, maybe prob because my non perfect english. (sorry again). 

---

No, actually I can't see that. At least not from any of the answers, except yours. I'm trying to understand how you got what you did from what I said, or how I could have possibly worded it any other way. But it really does seem pretty clear to me, so I don't understand. Since no one else thought it was the same way you did, I am inclined to believe it's simply a misunderstanding because of the language barrier, and nothing more. Your english isn't really that bad, I just think you're misunderstanding some of what I said because of a poor translator, or poor translation. Sorry, I  wish things translated the same in all languages, but they don't, lol.

 Your problem with what I said would make more sense if I had put it the way you seem to think I did. But, again, that's not how I put it, worded it, or meant it. Others may think that way about people who put IMS CAP in profiles, I am not one of those people and nothing I said says otherwise. I said the exact opposite in fact. I said it's something that DOES happen, and I know it happens. It also happens to me. So why would I ever say something like that?

 

[Ciaran Laval]

---

Tari Landar wrote:

Ok, so I know that the whole "send IMs to email" doesn't always send them all, everything has it's faults and it's not 100% guaranteed to always work, though I think the fail rate is significantly low. But I have to say, what kind of creator, that wants to be taken seriously, lets their IMs cap and does NOT select this option? That's actually an honest question, I would really love to know why some people don't choose to let things go to email. .

---

How do you know they don't receive offline IM's? I'm assuming some creators state this, if they then state how you can contact them, as long as that's reasonable, I don't see the problem.

 

[Tari Landar]

---

Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

I know you are frustrated and I admit that the merchants you referred to didn't handle this issue properly.  However IM's going to email are no guarantee of good service.  I have had just as many problems with merchants who are set up that way as those that aren't.  In fact I recently had a horrific encounter with a very well known merchant that is set up as you are but took over six weeks to even reply and who never solved the issue.

Despite the fact that you label this thread a rant, and you say your aren't snarky but are (example: "... I have to say, what kind of creator, that wants to be taken seriously, lets their IMs cap and does NOT select this option?") , I will tell you why I don't have IM's go to my email.

I take extra care to deliver a first rate quality product with well thought out detailed instructions and trouble shooting information.  As a result I don't have many calls for support.

I have business hours M-F when clients and customers can IM me, or they can send me a notecard anytime which i will respond to generally in 24 hours. I actually prefer notecards.  The support questions I generally get are not simple. I get more information on notecards, which allows me to reply on the same card with a complete well thought out answer, which a lot of time needs to be lengthy, and return it.  The customer then has a record of my answer for future reference.  If the support requires more, I set up a mutually convenient appointment time for us to meet so I can resolve the situation.

One of my businesses I recognize requires more support, due to its nature, which would result in my IM's getting capped..  I have a staff of well trained CSR's that will respond in the support group during a wide variety of hours around the clock. The majority of time the problem is user error and they can easily explain how to correct it.  If they are unable to resolve a problem then they pass it to me or my partner in this business and we take care of it, again usually within 24 hours.The information that comes with the product and my profile explain to the customer to contact my CSR's through the group for the fastest results.

My method works for me and my customers.  I have been told by them many times that I provide top notch service.  I have never had anyone complain to me about not being able to get the support they need.

My method also is more than reasonable.  In RL where the amount of money involved is far greater, you can't contact a business owner 24/7.  You can't buy something at a store and call them when they are closed and speak to anyone.  Ninety five percent of the time you aren't even given the opportunity to leave a message.  You get a message to call back during business hours.

The beauty of SL is that you can run your business as you please and let the market decide if you have made the right choices.  You choose to let your IM's go to email, I don't. 

That doesn't make me a bad business owner, as you imply in your posts.  If it did, I wouldn't  be doing business in SL successfully for six years now.

 

---

You're right, it doesn't make you a bad business owner. It does make some a bad business owner though, well contributes to it anyway. People who proclaim good customer service, but don't/can't offer it because they choose to not partake in options available to them, I do question their sincerity and dedication to their own business. Do I question the dedication of them all? No, but I do question the choice. Hence trying to understand why people don't choose this option. I do want to know what kind of merchant would opt out, and why. Not necessarily because they're all bad. They very well may have a valid reason. Until you posted, I haven't seen a single one.

You have a great setup, and it seems to work fantastic for you. But yours isn't as typical a case as I am sure we all wish. How many merchants who don't select the IM to email option do far less than you? I'm not normally a betting person but I can take an educated guess that it's a higher number than it should be. This is why I am trying to understand why some merchants, like yourself, opt out of this. I can see why you opt out of it. Your customers can still reach you. You have both yourself, and in the other business case you have CSRs. So there isn't really ever going to be days on end when a customer cannot get a hold of you and you'll reply with "didn't get your multiple messages and/ior notecards". That's not the case for all merchant though. Which is why I like reading other merchant's opinions and experience with it. I admitted thus far I had a pretty ignorant understanding on it.

I can give you an example actually. I was away for a month in Aug/Sept. I couldn't really log into SL unless absolutely necessary-as I'd have to find a computer to actually log on, lol. I also made my absence well known. Now, of course I would cap in that time frame, lol. But because I opt in to the email option, when there was a communication from someone while I was gone I was able to fix it. I wouldn't have seen her message had I not gotten it in my email, because it had capped inworld long before then. Now I know it's also possible that it may not have ever made it to my inbox either, but it did. I wouldn't have been able to fix her problem for almost 3 weeks if it hadn't been for that option, and try as I might to communicate that back, that would not sit well with me. So I found a way to address her issue as quick as I could. So, that's one instance where it helped me, and a customer, just recently.

 

 

 

[Tari Landar]

---

Ciaran Laval wrote:

---

Tari Landar wrote:

Ok, so I know that the whole "send IMs to email" doesn't always send them all, everything has it's faults and it's not 100% guaranteed to always work, though I think the fail rate is significantly low. But I have to say, what kind of creator, that wants to be taken seriously, lets their IMs cap and does NOT select this option? That's actually an honest question, I would really love to know why some people don't choose to let things go to email. .

---

How do you know they don't receive offline IM's? I'm assuming some creators state this, if they then state how you can contact them, as long as that's reasonable, I don't see the problem.

 

---

Yes I know because they've openly stated it. I wouldn't assume someone does or doesn't, though. I might ask, but I definitely wouldn't assume, or presume to know, without knowing. You are right that there isn't really a "problem" when they state how to get a hold of them. There is a problem when you do that and they still fail to communicate but that's a different issue. But also there are a lot of merchants who don't specify what/how/when to get a hold of them, and that's just as difficult on the customer as it is the merchant when something goes wrong. But, I guess that's a different issue too, lol.