Do you ever feel tired of posting?

[Phil Deakins]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

Do we sometimes drive new people off when we snipe at what we consider their naive or sometimes dumb points of views or questions? 

---

Well a dumb question like that would certainly drive me off!

(j/k of course )

[Perrie Juran]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

Do we sometimes drive new people off when we snipe at what we consider their naive or sometimes dumb points of views or questions? 

---

Well a dumb question like that would certainly drive me off!

(j/k of course

)

---

Which would bring me to add to my questions, "Is the right to poke fun at or tease someone earned?"

I don't mind at all if my GF makes fun or teases me about the wart on my arse, I know she loves me, but should a stranger say something, it could possibly be "fighting words."

[Dillon Levenque]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

Which would bring me to add to my questions, "Is the right to poke fun at or tease someone earned?"

I don't mind at all if my GF makes fun or teases me about the wart on my arse, I know she loves me, but should a stranger say something, it could possibly be "fighting words."

---

 

I think the Forum is an excellent example of how greatly opinions on that vary. I tend to say 'yes': like you, I reserve most of my poking fun for people who know I am fond of them. However, there are plenty of people who feel that anyone doing something dumb is fair game—enough so that it can't really be considered strange or anti-social when it happens. People really are different.

Now and then there are trolls unpleasant enough to draw snarkiness from people who don't normally engage in that sort of thing, of course.

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

I'm glad someone resurrected this thread because the thought crossed my mind the other day, "what can we do to make new users feel more welcome to this Forum?"

I myself would like to see sans flaming more participants and more subjects discussed.

But one quickly sees you have to have a thick skin or a very good sense of humour here. 

Do we sometimes drive new people off when we snipe at what we consider their naive or sometimes dumb points of views or questions?

---

I'm sure the sniping drives some people away, both new and old. We've heard them say so. As for what we can do to make new users feel more welcome, I don't know. We can't rush to the defense every time a newbie gets snarked at. And, if we did, there would be accusations of vigilantism. When I see someone undeservedly harpooned, I often try to offer some support. And when I respond to someone with a very low post count, I do give them a welcome.

As a member of the community, I do feel some responsibility to nurture it, but as I've come to learn over the years, one woman's nurture may be another man's nightmare.

;-)

[Madelaine McMasters]

---

Dillon Levenque wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

Which would bring me to add to my questions, "Is the right to poke fun at or tease someone earned?"

I don't mind at all if my GF makes fun or teases me about the wart on my arse, I know she loves me, but should a stranger say something, it could possibly be "fighting words."

---

 

I think the Forum is an excellent example of how greatly opinions on that vary. I tend to say 'yes': like you, I reserve

most

of my poking fun for people who know I am fond of them. However, there are plenty of people who feel that anyone doing something dumb is fair game—enough so that it can't really be considered strange or anti-social when it happens. People really are different.

Now and then there are trolls unpleasant enough to draw snarkiness from people who don't normally engage in that sort of thing, of course.

---

Those who know me well know I love to tease and flirt and, I hope, feel the affection I fire their way. I generally carry the group tag "Nefarious One" and I try to live up to the expectation that creates. But I do not limit that behavior to those who know me well, and when I interact with people new to me, I do take additional care to make my affection obvious. I also know this doesn't always work and I must make the rare apology for it.

I have teased both you and Perrie over the years. Dillon, I know you harbor only a proper amount of ill will against me, and hope the same is true for Perrie, who I thought had revealed that wart, if not the arse that carries it, only to me.

;-)

[Quinn Morani]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

Those who know me well know I love to tease and flirt and, I hope, feel the affection I

fire

their way.

---

Emphasis mine. I think the newbies should be made aware of the literal truth of your (I assume) strategically chosen wording.

Here's the evidence: http://www.flickr.com/photos/quinnmorani/sets/72157626648407445/detail/

[Maryanne Solo]

Everyone reads your posts Val.

When your name appears in any thread, we know there is a standing invitation to partake in a kind, considerate and knowledgeable commentary, whatever the topic may be.

Have a rest if you need to, but do make sure you come back pls

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

I'm glad someone resurrected this thread because the thought crossed my mind the other day, "what can we do to make new users feel more welcome to this Forum?"

I myself would like to see sans flaming more participants and more subjects discussed.

But one quickly sees you have to have a thick skin or a very good sense of humour here. 

Do we sometimes drive new people off when we snipe at what we consider their naive or sometimes dumb points of views or questions?

---

I'm sure the sniping drives some people away, both new and old. We've heard them say so. As for what we can do to make new users feel more welcome, I don't know. We can't rush to the defense every time a newbie gets snarked at. And, if we did, there would be accusations of vigilantism. When I see someone undeservedly harpooned, I often try to offer some support. And when I respond to someone with a very low post count, I do give them a welcome.

As a member of the community, I do feel some responsibility to nurture it, but as I've come to learn over the years, one woman's nurture may be another man's nightmare.

;-)

---

I posted the question because I honestly don't know the answer.

I have sniped also.  I generally don't but I am not above doing it either.

And I would never want to see the discussion of issues and ideas squelched here.

I am also well aware of the hostilities that exist between some posters here.  I don't have an answer for that either.  I too have people who I don't miss at all.

So all I can do is toss out my question.  I would be reluctant to ask any one to back down from their principles.  I know how I would respond if I was asked to.  But if I think someones principle is wrong, that principle I might discuss.  It's a choice I make every time I read something here.

I just know I'd like this Forum to be fun and productive (eta to add) for everyone.

What it takes to get there, I'm just not certain I really know.

 

2nd eta for clarity

 

 

[Storm Clarence]

I never get tired of posting.  It's what I do--I am a posting whore.

Cheers Val.    

[Celestiall Nightfire]

---

valerie Inshan wrote:

Or I am just tired in general?

---

Yes.  Then I go and take a nap.  : ) 

 

[Celestiall Nightfire]

---

Deltango Vale wrote:

Looking back over three generations of this forum, what I notice most is the loss of so many knowledgeable residents. I find it sad that Linden Lab never valued their wisdom and experience. Eventually, they drifted away.

Over five years (I began writing in the forum about a year after going inworld), the same topics have come up a billion times and, yes, we had our share of tinfoil hats, axe-grinders, kooks and trolls, but the wit and humor of the best posters made the forum a joy. A few remain (Val among them).

What a difference now from when I joined in October 2006. Back then, Linden Lab was posting frequently. There was also a monthly LL Newsletter. The company was engaged with Second Life, enthusiastic - the forum buzzed with excitement - and one had to be damn sharp to venture an opinion. I remember being terrified of Argent Stonecutter, who could eviscerate a fool with a three-word comment and, of course, the Prokodile. Those were amazing days in Second Life.

For five long years, Linden Lab strove to make SL as banal as possible and it worked.

---

Well, stated Del!   

I started on the old SLX forums.  They were not owned by Linden Lab but owned and operated by the brilliant A. Silverman and his wonderful team of tech support and moderators.  The SLX forums were for the SL merchants and customers, who used the sales and delivery system, that was created to deliver purchases to SL residents inworld. That SLX forum, had a plethora of amazing SL residents, and was chock full of helpful information.  Yes, there were arguments, and drama, but the overall caliber of the posters was second to none. 

1)   Linden Lab, then bought out SLX, and turned it into X-Street.  So, forum change number One.  Some posters left, and the rules changed.   So, step one to blandness.  

2)  Then LL closed the X-Street forums, and merged the SL forum and X-Street forum into the old GD forum.  So, forum change number Two.  Increased blandness, as posters from both merged forums failed to post there, and migrated to other venues.  Bitter drama ensued as the two forum populations each tried to claim turf.  But, still many brilliant posters and great conversations.  So, forum change number Two, and onward blandness.

3)  Then LL closed the old GD forums, and created this...with the lousy software, increased draconian rules, and Ban-Hammer.   (this post is the type which is prone to disappear, as any dissension is cut-out)  People starting getting banned and "disciplined" for trivial actions, words are censored, and more people left for other venues.  Minors post here too, as LL merged adult and teen grid.  So, we have firewall of sorts for adult content, and even that is bland as baby's bathwater.   So, step Three for blandness.

There you have it.  The SL forum, that is shunned, by both SL residents and LL employees. 

[Phil Deakins]

If I've understood your post correctly, your memory is a bit astray, Cel. The "old" forum was going for years before LL bought SLX - and LL owned it all along. The old forum is usually referred to as the RA (Resident Answers) forum these days because the RA sub-forum was the liveliest and most used part of it.

LL didn't exactly "merge" the SLX forum and the SL forum. They simply closed the SLX forum and redid the SL forum with different software. So the SLX forum is not part of the history of this forum. It's only part of the history of your personal SL-related forum experience.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

If I've understood your post correctly, your memory is a bit astray, Cel. The "old" forum was going for years before LL bought SLX - and LL owned it all along. The old forum is usually referred to as the RA (Resident Answers) forum these days because the RA sub-forum was the liveliest and most used part of it.

LL didn't exactly "merge" the SLX forum and the SL forum. They simply closed the SLX forum and redid the SL forum with different software. So the SLX forum is not part of the history of this forum. It's only part of the history of your personal SL-related forum experience.

---

No, my memory is just fine. 

The old forum that I referred to was not the RA forum.  I never posted to that, and did not even know it existed.  I posted on the old SLX forums.  It was not owned by LL.  It was a separate company owned by SLX, which was the business started by Apotheus Silverman, and then absorbed by LL when they purchased the company from him. 

SLX was the forum for the  SL-Exchange (not owned or operated by LL) 

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-1046?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Achangehistory-tabpanel

http://secondlife.wikia.com/wiki/Apotheus_Silverman

https://www.xstreetsl.com/forum_archive/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=12&topicdays=0&start=150

 

When SLX was purchased by LL, they changed the name to X-Street.  It then became a forum owned and operated by LL, and the old SLX employees were gradually gotten rid of.   Silverman stayed on for a while and helped LL assimilates the software into LL use.   All the while what you call the "old RA" forum was actually owned by LL and in use.

THEN, LL decided to merge the two forums....the one-year old "newish" X-Street forum, which was now under LL ownership.  (had been SLX and not LL owned)  Merge with what you call RA forum, which was the LL owned forum.  The merged item became the old GD (General Discussion forum)   Which then, became this....SL forum. 

[Phil Deakins]

Yes I know all the history - I was here

But referring to the "old" forum, does not refer to anything other than an LL forum, and there was only one - which wasn't the SLX/Xstreet forum. The old forum was what is now usually referred to as the RA forum which, as we agree, was always owned by LL.

I think you used your personal forum history as the history of this forum, but it's not. This forum's history started with what is now referred to as the RA forum, which was always owned by LL. Then they changed the software. That was the "first change". It was nothing to do with the SLX forum. There was no merging of forums. They simply closed the old forum and set up a new forum with different software. They also closed the Xstreet forum.

From your point of view, having never used the old forum, the "first change" (for you) was the closing of the other forum and a new one being set up. In other words, you followed a path from the outside that joined the inside. But the inside path is the actual history. You joined us - we didn't join you

[Celestiall Nightfire]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

So the SLX forum is not part of the history of this forum. It's only part of the history of your personal SL-related forum experience.

---

Phil, I realize that Deltango was referring to her experience on the old "RA" forum as you call it.  But, as you can see by the links I provided, LL has archived the old SLX/ X-Street forum and it was merged into a LL run forum.  Even the old SLX employees, who's names you will see on the link I provided, were merged over at first, and worked for LL under the newish X-Street format. 

https://www.xstreetsl.com/forum_archive/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=12&topicdays=0&start=150

Those people?  They started out as SLX people, not LL.  Then worked for the Lab, as it was merged, then eventually phased out.   It's not just "my" personal SL-related forum experience. 

[Phil Deakins]

But it is just your own personal forum experience. And I do know that the XStreet people became LL employees when LL bought Xstreet, but that was for the Xtreeet system rather than the forum.

Your (Xstreet) forum came to to us. We didn't join you. Your "first change" is not part of this forum's history - not in the way you wrote it, anyway.

You said it yourself - "LL has archived the old SLX/ X-Street forum and it was merged into a LL run forum". I.e. you joined us (the LL forum) and not the other way round 

[Porky Gorky]

---

Celestiall Nightfire wrote:

No, my memory is just fine. 

The old forum that I referred to was not the RA forum.  I never posted to that, and did not even know it existed.  I posted on the old SLX forums.  It was not owned by LL.  It was a separate company owned by SLX, which was the business started by Apotheus Silverman, and then absorbed by LL when they purchased the company from him. 

SLX was the forum for the  SL-Exchange (not owned or operated by LL) 

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-1046?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Achangehistory-tabpanel

http://secondlife.wikia.com/wiki/Apotheus_Silverman

https://www.xstreetsl.com/forum_archive/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewforum&f=12&topicdays=0&start=150

 

When SLX was purchased by LL, they changed the name to X-Street.  It then became a forum owned and operated by LL, and the old SLX employees were gradually gotten rid of.   Silverman stayed on for a while and helped LL assimilates the software into LL use.   All the while what you call the "old RA" forum was actually owned by LL and in use.

THEN, LL decided to merge the two forums....the one-year old "newish" X-Street forum, which was now under LL ownership.  (had been SLX and not LL owned)  Merge with what you call RA forum, which was the LL owned forum.  The merged item became the old GD (General Discussion forum)   Which then, became this....SL forum. 

---

 

Linden Lab never changed the name from SLX to X-streeet. Apotheus did this in late 2008, around the time that LL changed their trademark license. LL did not buy X-Street until early 2009 and it was already called X-street SL by then.

Also the X-street forums did not merge with the SL forums at the time LL took over. I remember being at a town hall meeting where this was discussed. Migrating all the threads from X street forums  to SL forums was not possible due to software incompatibility not to mentioned issues such as it would have borked up peoples post counts and also there were people posting on Xstreet forums that were banned from SL forums. In the end I think some of the more popular threads on the X street forums were recreated on the SL forums but that was it.

 

 

[Celestiall Nightfire]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

But it is just your own personal forum experience. And I do know that the XStreet people became LL employees when LL bought Xstreet, but that was for the Xtreeet system rather than the forum.

Your (Xstreet) forum came to to us. We didn't join you. Your "first change" is not part of this forum's history - not in the way you wrote it, anyway.

You said it yourself - "

LL has archived the old SLX/ X-Street forum

and it was merged into a LL run forum

". I.e. you joined us (the LL forum) and not the other way round 

---

Uh, I didn't write that the SL forum "joined" the old SLX forum.  I said they were merged. 

The SLX employees became X-Street..before any closing of the RA...there were then two separate forums, each run by LL.  The X-Street forum and the RA forum.  Two different forums...both owned and operated by LL.  

Then X-Street phased out...and the two were merged.  

So, yes my forum experience is part of the "official" SL forum history, as X-Street was owned by LL after the buy-out. 

It ran for a whole year as run by LL...simultaneous with RA forums.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

---

Porky Gorky wrote:

---

Also the X-street forums did not merge with the SL forums at the time LL took over.

 

---

Yes, I know.  LL maintained two separate forums.  The RA and the X-Street.  Both owned and run by LL.  (while phasing the SLX employees out)

 

[Phil Deakins]

But you wrote your post as though your experience (xstreet forum followed by this forum) was the forum history when it wasn't. You wrote about "the first change" as though the change from the xstreet forum to this forum was the first change. That's what I was correcting because it was wrong as far as this forum's history is concerned. It was only right as far as your personal SL-related forum history is concerned..

This forum started as what we now call the RA forum. Then the software was changed and the RA forum was archived. And then the software was changed again. Along the way, the forum that started life as the SLX forum joined this forum. So this forum's history is, first the RA forum, then then first software change, and then the second softare change. Somewhere along the way, another forum that LL acquired was closed, and its users came to use this one.

That's the forum's history in a nutshell, and it's a bit different to what you described in your post. This forum didn't start as an outside forum (SLX) as you suggested in your post. It started as an LL forum, before the outside one, and it's never changed from being that. What you described as the forum's history was your own personal SL-related forum history but not this forum's history.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

But you wrote your post as though your experience (xstreet forum followed by this forum) was the forum history when it wasn't. You wrote about "the first change" as though the change from the xstreet forum to this forum was the first change. That's what I was correcting because it was wrong as far as this forum's history is concerned. It was only right as far as your personal SL-related forum history is concerned..

This forum started as what we now call the RA forum. Then the software was changed and the RA forum was archived. And then the software was changed again. Along the way, the forum that started life as the SLX forum joined this forum. So this forum's history is, first the RA forum, then then first software change, and then the second softare change. Somewhere along the way, another forum that LL acquired was closed, and its users came to use this one.

That's the forum's history in a nutshell, and it's a bit different to what you described in your post. This forum didn't start as an outside forum (SLX) as you suggested in your post. It started as an LL forum, before the outside one, and it's never changed from being that. What you described as the forum's history was your own personal SL-related forum history but not this forum's history.

---

Phil, when the old RA closed, did they migrate the threads over to the GD forum?   Did the people posting in RA get to keep their post counts, tags, and all the stuff from that forum?   No.  It closed.  A completely NEW forum started.   In the NEW form (GD)  posters from X-Street (which had also been an "officially" owned LL forum for a year) and RA posters both started fresh in the NEW forum.   

There's nothing that makes old RA posters any more "official" than X-Street posters.  Both, had posted in a forum owned by LL.  Both groups had their respective forums closed.  Both groups were invited to start new accounts at the GD forum.  

GD, turned into "this" current forum.   BUT, GD was not a continuation of the old RA.   Old RA was closed.  Posters from old RA forum were not automatically members of GD.  X-Street posters at that point, were equal to old RA posters, as they had been posting for a year in a LL owned forum, and now had to create new accounts at the GD. 

THIS forum is not a continuation of the old RA forum.  No more than it's a continuation of the old X-Street forum.  BOTH of those old forums were closed, and a NEW forum started.  Some people from old RA never even created an account in the GD...so they only exist in archives.  Just like the old X-street people exist in archives.  (I posted a link to that) 

Seriously, why do people think their personal RA forum experience is any more "official", than an X-Street forum poster?  Both, were owed by LL, both closed by LL.  Both had the option to create a NEW account at the NEWLY created GD forum.

 

[Phil Deakins]

You can argue it whichever way you like, Cel, but the predecessor of this forum is the old RA forum. It was the orginal forum and this one replaced it. Of course the RA forum closed when this one opened. The RA forum was on software (much better than any software we've been on since) that had been so heavily modified that it had become too difficult to deal any more and so LL decided to do away with that software and use a rubbish blog system instead. That was the continuation of the RA forum, and this one we have now is the continuation of the blog forum.

I'm sorry, but your description of what "the first change" was was wrong. It wasn't changing from the Xstreet forum to the blog forum, as you described. It was changing from the RA forum to the blog forum.

[Celestiall Nightfire]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:.

 It wasn't changing from the Xstreet forum to the blog forum, as you described. It was changing from the RA forum to the blog forum.

---

RA closed.  (owned by LL)

X-Street closed.   (owned by LL) 

 

Totally NEW forum starts.  New software, new accounts.  Anyone, from either of the two other (now closed) LL forums can create NEW accounts on the new forum.   GD (blog) forum. 

You want to say that only the RA portion is somehow "official".  But, there was no longer an RA portion.  It closed.  Nothing from RA continued to exist, except in your mind.  None of the RA posters magically appeared in the new blog software.  It was not a continuation.   Your version is just that.  Your version (of the story) 

[Phil Deakins]

I never used the word "official".

It's interesting to note that you've changed your tune a bit since the post of yours that I corrected. In that post, the history line went from the xstreet forum to the blog forum. Now you say it goes from both the xstreet forum and the RA forum to the blog forum. It's good to see that you are now snuggling up to the old RA forum

My thinking is this. The RA forum goes back forever. The xstreet forum had only 1 year of LL ownership, and it only had that because it happened to be attached to a system that LL bought. It was the system they bought, not the forum. The RA forum naturally closed when they updated (in their minds) the forum with the blog forum. I don't know exactly when the xstreet forum closed in relation to the blog forum opening, but I don't think it matters whether or not it closed at the same time or later. The original forum was replaced by the blog forum, and the original forum was the RA one. So, imo, that's the history line and your "first change" was changing from the RA software to the blog software. The "first change" you described was only the first change for you but not for SL users in general.

If they could have ported the RA people and post counts into the new software, they would have. But the best they could do, without spending a stupidly long time on it, was archive the RA forum.

[Phil Deakins]

Look at it another way...

LL started a forum (the RA forum) many years ago. Many years later they decided to buy the XSL shopping system, which didn't even exist in the early years of the RA forum. The shopping system happened to have a forum attached so they let the extra forum run. Some time later, they realised that they'd modified the main forum's software so much that it had become unmanageable and they decided to replace it with the blog system's forum facility, which is what they did. But they didn't want to still have the extra forum to maintain so they closed it down.

You only ever used the XSL forum, and then you had to use the blog forum. So, for you, it seems like that's the current forum's history - but it isn't. It's only your forum history.