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Iam Runningbear

4 Restarts in less than a week for Unscheduled Maintenance.

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Tell me Linden Labs. Why I should pay tier or buy things on the market place to use on the grid when the grid is constantly being restarted with no explaination other than unscheduled maintenance.

 

4 times this week my region was restarted. All 4 times my clubs were busy. This costs me money that I give to you each and every month for tier. Do you not want my tier money? Your making it impossible to maintain a business here.

 

For those who do not have an inworld shop, club, or business of some sort this is no major big deal, but to those of us with clubs and game rooms where the actual pressence of live avatars spending lindens it's killing our income.

 

Now you tell us it could take up to 5 hours to cycle? Where is our compensation for your lack of service to us your consumer?

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We could go back to the old days when LL just shut down SL one whole day a week for maintenance, at least then it would be predictable.

Not sure if this is the cause, but in other post it's been suggested that this is part of project shining

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Tools-and-Technology/Project-Shining-to-Improve-Avatar-and-Object-Streaming-Speeds/ba-p/1583465

LL is going from 3 to 2 co-location for hosting servers.  When this is complicated it should help out a lot.  They could communicate a bit better about this as usual.

LL's polices clearly state that they are not responsible to compensate for down time.  Can't say I agree with all of their polices, but knowing your going to get screwed some times makes it less pain full.

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One of the best things about down time is that at least nothing else can go wrong, and no greiffers,  scams, or drama, until SL is working again lol :)

any way hope your clubs are up and running soon, I managed to log in finally.

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When the grid goes down for "unscheduled maintenance," it is typically for a very good reason. For example, last week when a security issue forced an unscheduled roll on the Magnum RC channel. Whatever the issue was, it was dire enough to cause the lab to roll all the Magnum RC servers. 

And yes. it's a pain. Every time Magnum rolls, I've got Mainland that goes offline.

I suppose there's a possibility these recent restarts tie into a recent really horrid griefing exploit. I'd suspect strongly, given the Lab is not known for doing rolls on Friday afternoons.

In which case, I'll take these and more painful restarts over the possibility of dealing with exploits that could cost me a whole lot more in time, money, and trouble.

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It's frustrating for sure when unscheduled maintenance takes place, and last night was particularly bad, with five hours offline at least for some people. 

Occasionally Linden employees do look in and respond here on the forums, but generally it is a resident to resident area.

I think yesterday's unscheduled maintenance was over a security issue, rather than because of general updating to work on the new Shining project. This will be carried out more than likely during the regular Tuesday deploys.  (And who would really choose to work on a Friday evening, so close to the weekend? I'm guessing the Linden folk who had to were not too pleased themselves; Support would have been inundated with enquiries from irate residents wanting to know why their sims were not coming back up straightaway.)

I blame the cleaners. They plug in their vacuum cleaners and floor polishing machines without a care, not knowing that those big machines all lined up are actually servers and not just funny-looking refrigerators!

 

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Oh come one people, are You all blind or simply stupid?

I am fed up with these lame exuses every time like  'despite our best efforts, something went wrong' like they think we're all a bunch of toddlers.

But i am more fed up with residents behavior. Open your eyes, look around for christ sake. Never has been so many land set for sale as the past weeks. Clubs, shops, airports, marina's.....they all close. Open maps, and see for yourself. The only thing that works fine is the cashier and paypall system and they don't give a damn if you have problems. They always come up with exuses. Stop being so ignorant and overprotective towards LL.

I have seen good people leaving, people abandoning their land and even close their account because they've had enough. Do you think LL cares about that. Do you think they even considder for just a second about a refund or any form of compensation? Right, i don't think so....

 

Yann.

 

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Marigold

I know what it states in the ToS and insofar as it goes Linden Lab have the right to do as it damn well pleases.

However, it does not make good business sense to continually wool-pull and insult your userbase as Linden Lab have done these past 4 years to my certain knowledge.

Linden Lab seem to have continually striven for a user-group it simply cannot reach (in Kingdon's case it was business users who would have needed to be clinically insane to use SL as it was then).

Now Rod Humble is tilting at the "Gamer" Windmill.  SL can not and never will be able to compete with the MMPORGs.  It does not have the chassis to do it.

And all through this, we, the loyal SL "lifestylers", are disregarded and ill-served.

Now I know Linden Lab are not doing nothing and I also know it is not productive to lambast them for inaction, but it is hardly surprising that folk get angry and frustrated. Just go for a sail from Blake Sea and look at the vast tracts of non-Linden land for sale.

Linden Lab really do have to do more to improve the SL of the existing userbase, and they do have to treat them more reasonably, if they don't, then, quite simply, SL is a dead horse, but it just doesn't know it yet.

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Do you know what? Maybe I just don't care enough either. Selfishly Linden Lab does all they need to do for me. Being without much money, I'd say I am lucky that I don't have the choice of investing more than I have in something that could go 'poof' at any moment (imagine - heaven forbid - if there was a massive earthquake in SF for example).

I just don't see the need for everyone to be so wound up to the top about virtual reality when there is far more to be concerned with out in real life.

People can argue the toss with me or the others who allegedly defend LL, they can voice all their frustrations, it's  a forum after all.  But really and truly, any real concerns about Linden Lab's policies and how Linden Lab choose to work, should be directed straight at Linden Lab themselves, via snail mail, or by knocking on the door at SF, not groaning and grumbling and being mardy on a resident-in-the-main forum.

I'm well aware how much land is for sale. I've always had my SL home on the mainland, and the mainland is where I explore. 

The people who tend to be the mardiest on these forums, are those who think the world owes them a living because they've been stupid enough to waste more money than they can afford.  It shows to me that money does not bring happiness, it just brings mardiness.

As for Linden Lab having no business sense, I won't defend them there. It's totally up to them what they want to do. It is, after all, THEIR business. 

 

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LOl the only one who can understand where you are coming from is another club owner. I ran some pretty popular clubs in the past 6 years and it was the most frustrating thing to have unscheduled restarts. You Have a good event day and shell out over 100 USD to residents for events all day then they restart all night and shut down. Totaly destroying all the hard work and money put into the events to build traffic. But the crashes also were just as bad... Either way your guests will be back. You just have to go with the flow the best you can. Its not like this all the time but it sure as hell pisses you off sometimes when It happens. Just sit back and take a few breaths and hope for the best.. You are still the minority lol

I mean no disrespect  I ran/founded Phat Cats and Sweethearts jazz and these times would be very trying to me also.. Just hang in there.

PS if your regions are on beta channels like Magnum etc. Request to be taken off those beta test channels

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Marigold

As ever your points are valid...but only for your viewpoint (and I know you aren't hypocritical).

Sad as it may be my own RL is dysfunctional enough for me to have invested a great deal of time and effort, though not a vast fortune, in my SL, and I know a fair number of others for whom their Secondlife is a great deal less painful that their Firstlife.

As far as sending real life mail to Battery Street - it was always unanswered and a lot of it returned unopened.  Being a Brit makes it a tad inconvenient to go door-knocking!

Mark never answered challenges and Rod seems only to respond to tweets, and since I'm not a Twit, I feel disenfranchised.

The most persistent complainers (and we know who some are!!) have only a fleeting interest in SL running well...they'd have nothing to moan about!:smileytongue:

As to it being up to Linden Research whether or not they waste resources or not, that's a subject for debate elsewhere, but  a business consists of two parts: the supplier or owner of the company and the customers - something far too many so-called businesses forget.

@ Dilbert:  Strange as it may seem our sim has fared better and been more stable since it was moved to LeTigre!:smileyfrustrated:

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How much money one spend in SL is their choice. I can afford it so i am not stupid at all. True, even for me RL is more important and my inworld time is limited. Hell, if LL goes offline tomorrow, big deal.....i don't care. My partner is addicted to it so i let him enjoy although lately he starts to loose interest in it too.

But bear in mind that their are people inworld who have invested seriously in SL. I am talking about builders, club owners, land owners and more....

For them it is a big deal. They invest not only money but also a lot of time just because they enjoy it. What bothers me is the big ignorant attitude of LL managment and the way they treat residents.

I remember the big companies inworld years ago (Mercedes, Seat, GM, Nissan, IBM, ING, Sony and many more.........)

Hamburg-based research firm Komjuniti conducted a study into attitudes amongst Second Life users of companies marketing within the virtual community.

The results were worrying for the future of marketing using this medium. 72% of respondents said they were disappointed with real world company activities in Second Life, and just over 40% felt that these marketing promotions would not last. Result: the majority of them have left by now.

What is LL position in this? Do they really care?

I doubt it.......

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Just because you can afford it, does not mean you are not stupid!

"A fool and his money is soon parted." :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:

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Ayesha Askham wrote in part:

As far as sending real life mail to Battery Street - it was always unanswered and a lot of it
returned unopened

Really?

How? I mean... somebody at the Lab slapped enough postage on it to get it back to you? Otherwise... does the post office allow itself to be bothered to return mail -- across the pond, no less -- for free? ... assuming it's properly addressed and bears sufficient postage in the first place?

If the USPS actually does that, they've well earned bankruptcy.

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Mea Culpa Qie, (it was tired and I was getting late)

What I should've said was that post returned was from the old UK office in Brighton.  I did have a number of emails returned as "undeliverable" despite having the correct address on them (I checked).

The letters I sent to Battery street were with one notable exception left unanswered, so I guess they remained in the USA.

The one that WAS answered simply told me that no-one at that address was able to respond to my query, but that it was being forwarded for "executive consideration".  That was the last I heard on the subject (it concerned the issue extant at the time about age verification for non-US domiciles).

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Thanks, Ayesha. So... yeah, I guess writing to the Lab is about as effective as writing to a legislative representative -- albeit one without enough junior staffers to generate replies. Yet hardcopy mail is surely more effective than email, at getting one's opinions noticed by somebody.

In a twisted sort of way, it's reassuring to learn that there's no army of junior staffers to churn out replies. Most likely, then, all letters make it past an administrative assistant (paid too little to be trusted with filtering responsibility) onto the desk of the addressee (paid too much to compose replies).

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I am not sure how this thread got off on how foolish someone is or is not on investing money into something that can go poof in a split second.

I for one can afford it. Sl is my relaxation. I have chosen to invest a lot of money here but this is no different than those that gamble away a large amount of money at Vegas or donate to the cause at their local Bar.

This thread was intended to point out the lack of customer service. Whether or not my clubs or businesses in SL generate enough funds to pay for themselves is irrelevant. I will pay the tier amount not covered. As I stated. I can afford it and I know all to well it is all at Risk.

There have been some dumb decisions made as of late that has literally crushed the SL economy. One does not need to be a genius to see and understand this. It just seems that LL would have enough business sense to also see what is taking place.

Sometimes it is best to get back to the basics. Stop all the special interest improvements that waist resources and improve situation of just a choice few.

Can LL actually survive with only its special interest groups?

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Iam Runningbear wrote:

I am not sure how this thread got off on how foolish someone is or is not on investing money into something that can go poof in a split second.

It did so because this is a resident to resident forum, and it was assumed you were asking for opinions, or generally trying to drum up some back-up from other residents to go and storm the bastille that is Linden Lab.

I for one can afford it. Sl is my relaxation. I have chosen to invest a lot of money here but this is no different than those that gamble away a large amount of money at Vegas or donate to the cause at their local Bar.

That's good then. It's good to have a relaxing hobby, although you do not seem to be very relaxed at all, quite the opposite in fact.  People who gamble away large amount of money at Vegas or spend on drinks that they are only going to p*ss up a wall later tend to accept their lot, and don't complain of poor customer services, although they may feel bad the morning after when they wake up with an empty wallet and/or a hangover, and the smell of vomit and stale beer all around them.

This thread was intended to point out the lack of customer service. Whether or not my clubs or businesses in SL generate enough funds to pay for themselves is irrelevant. I will pay the tier amount not covered. As I stated. I can afford it and I know all to well it is all at Risk.

Some of us don't find such a lack of customer service. Some of us read and took notice of the Terms of Service when we signed up for Second Life.  Some of us don't expect Linden Lab to owe us anything, regardless of how much we invest in Second Life (and as time is money, and a lot of people invest their time in testing things for free, it could be argued a lot of people are investing plenty in Second Life).

There have been some dumb decisions made as of late that has literally crushed the SL economy. One does not need to be a genius to see and understand this. It just seems that LL would have enough business sense to also see what is taking place.

"Stupid is as stupid does, Forrest"! 

All business have dips in profits and customers from time to time.

Sometimes it is best to get back to the basics. Stop all the special interest improvements that waist resources and improve situation of just a choice few.

I agree that too much time is being spent on things I am not personally interested in, such as mesh and pathfinding. However, there are plenty of people who are interested, and these people are investing already in these areas.  These people are no more or less special interest groups than club owners.

Can LL actually survive with only its special interest groups?

There is room for everyone in this world. No one group has the right to say how it is fun. Linden Lab has the final say. As per Terms of Service.

And round and round we go again.

Specific complaints, and constructive criticism, are/is always welcome, for sure.  Regarding other people in this thread who say they have had snail mail returned from LL, I personally have experienced only positive outcomes from snail mail sent from the UK to the Head Office at Battery Street.  There have not been replies in the form of letters in return, but action speaks louder than words.  And of course I can only speak from my own experience.

 

 

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