Is goodwill running thin?

[Boudicca Littlebird]

I do see how you feel, but LL are in a situation that most companies are not in, their customers live most their life in their servers and because of that their RL issues get bought in with them, society still does not know how to handle that, they have things like mental health and social services but they seem to be unable to cope, you can't expect the lindens to provide those services and I think they are scared stiff to even attempt, so they stand distant and have to judge on what kind of service they can offer, that does not reach the expectations of some, so I do think LL have the hardest job of all and I am not surprised when they get it wrong sometimes.

[Melita Magic]

I am not sure what the question is in the first post but I haven't had any problem with the SL staff ("the Lindens") I assume you meant them and not the currency?

I don't think there is a favored few. I think a discount is offered to certain 'whales' in the game just like in Vegas but that's fiscal sense. Other than that, no I think they are just doing their jobs. 

I don't think the word goodwill really comes into it if you are discussing business, goodwill is something people give away for free. I think there is a lot of good will in Second Life because everything everywhere you go is free to visit. It only costs if you want to soup up your av. And even a lot of that stuff is free.

If that isn't what you meant by goodwill I am not sure what you are asking.

[Boudicca Littlebird]

If you have no problems with the lindens then you have no problem with goodwill,  the goodwill I talk of is the goodwill between you and the lindens and if you feel it is balanced, you have said it is, whereas others like Phil says it is not.

[Melita Magic]

OK thanks for clarifying.

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

I think that LL is only about money - M, Rodvik, whoever. Of course, businesses are about money but most businesses also cater for their customers, if only because ssatisfying customers more profitable, whereas LL turns a blind eye and caters only for the company. That's what I mean when I use the word "care". I sometimes put it another way - LL doesn't give a damn about their customers as customers. They only give a damn about getting as much as they can from them.

You said that "as long as it works...". It doesn't work. It used to work but it hasn't worked for a very long time and Rodvik shows no signs of making it work. The system (SL itself) largely works, of course, but there's more to running a company well than that. Customer service only manages to work sometimes. Also, keeping the customer informed hardly works at all. It's things like that that don't work, and they are very important to the whole

I'm pleased that you haven't had any problems with the marketplace for some time, but it's not many weeks since the whole thing was really b.ggered, and it stayed that way for quite some time. Switching over to direct delivery caused it. Some time ago, those who were dealing with marketplace problems posted about them in the forum, but that came to a stop, and nobody was telling LL's paying customers anything, and the customers had to grin and bear it.

On the whole, LL does not work as a normal company with paying customers. It hasn't worked like one for years, and there are no signs that I'm aware of that anything is about to change. Rodvik has been here for about 1½ years and things between LL and customers have got worse in that time, as others have also pointed out in this thread. It's not that they aren't aware of the customer dissatisfaction. It's that they don't care enough about customers to do anything about it. Rodvik may be marginally successful in improving profits for LL but he's absolutely no good in the customer department and, imo, intentionally keeping the customers dissatisfied is failure on his part.

---

market place was crap because M pushed everyone to it with his V2..now that users use it for their main source of shopping..it was getting over used..laggy and almost took forever to do anything on it..

a new system was put in place to help with faster more reliable delivery and  it works..in seconds i get my things..it's not as laggy as it used to be either..

it's been about a month since it crashed..that could happen on anyones watch..the thing is..it's better now than ever..

mesh..Oz is working with Quarl on the deformer..that is gonna bring people around more to mesh..plus it's still early in it's market phase..

they don't have to be intouch with me constantly about everything they do or everything they add..

not unless it's gonna be some change that will get me banned..

then you have the linden realms..the realms themselves were not the big deal..but the platform was..the idea and tools to make that happen in someones sim..pathfinding thats gonna be something that itself is gonna make sims a lot cooler ..

set out a pack of wild horses that can just run wild through a sim..wild life in a forest..zombies that can show up anywhere...

rodvik getting Celest back in the forums..what CEO ever did that?all though i wish he would have answered Void..because that was a major loss..

M did nothing but turn it into a corp feeling and really screwed over a lot of users a few times..

the thing i like about rodvik is he has a vision and at the same time is trying to reverse that M bullcrap  dumped on us..even though some may not see it..just look at what he really has done..

when have you ever heard a linden  talk like OZ has? open and  not beating around the bush..

the past there may have been more communication..but how much of it was really communication?

i remember a lot of dancing around the bush never really answering anything or letting anyone know what they were really saying...but they were still blogging a mouth full..

 i would rather have some quality com than a quantity of crap to sort through to try to come close to what the heck they are actually saying..which most times was nothing..

 

rodvik responds to the users..even though he couldn't do something about the whole last name thing which he said from the start he may not be able to do..he still responded and looked into it..

what i see in this version of the lindens vs the past? a version of lindens that do hear the users and do respond..it may not be in the timely manner we want ..but they have been..

more than i have seen since i have been here..

OZ laid out the 3rd party viewer changes and rules and users spoke up..he heard them and put a hold on some things because they made sense..he didn't just ignore them and carry on letting all hell break loose..and from his interview he showed he is concerned for users but also knows 3rd party viewers are important..

i'm not saying things are perfect..i'm just saying i like Rodvik INC.

and i do believe things will get better ..maybe not more popular..but better..

they give me this feeling they are at least trying for the users ..but at the same time for LL

i don't see rrodvik and crew all about money..LL itself yes..but him and his crew no..

i'm sure his hands get tied a lot and can't do everything he wants..but to me he is trying..

if they are quiet..then i believe they are working on things..it may not be the things we want right away..they have a wide area they have to work on and i'm sure..it's gonna take time..

1 1/2 years is not very long in business terms..

it takes less time to break things than it does to repair them..Rodvik and crew had and probably still have a lot to repair after the prior bull in a china shop..

look at what all went on in M's Era and then look at what is still lingering from it..

Market wasn't Rodviks baby..but he is making it better than it was..he's not just letting it lay there and advertise it to death and hope for the best..

i think i'm a pretty good judge of character..when i feel him and OZ and the others have sold out and gave up on their plans..that's when i'll stop giving them the benefit of doubt..

they just have in no way shown me they are not trying and that they don't care about the users..

M showed me we were cattle..and that's the only feeling  he ever gave me..

we will probably end up agreeing to disagree on this thing..because not much is gonna change how i feel about them and their intentions until they show me different..and to me trying still means a lot..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JeanneAnne]

---

Boudicca Littlebird wrote:

I have noticed that the goodwill between some and the lindens is very thin, is there two groups here, one that come to SL to be entertained and another group that come here to do business, what I have noticed in these threads is that those that run business are very stressed and on their last legs as regards goodwill, whereas the ones here for just entertainment can see nothing wrong and dismiss the other group out of hand, am I wrong or is this a trend?

 

From my own point of view I am here for business, I find the lindens aloft and out of touch, like they judge all people by how much money they can get from them, directly or indirectly, I have also found they use some residents as spy's just to ask questions while they listen (do I give those a disjointed view on life, lol), the thing about people focused on money is that they are very backward in all other areas, but that is my view do any others share it?

---

I think you're right Boudicca. As soon as someone starts regarding a game as being a business, they turn greedy & crabby. Seems to me like this forum is dominated by ppl who think of SL as a business opportunity for themselves, rather than as a game to have fun playing.

Jeanne

[Boudicca Littlebird]

Yes, it is related to expectations, and very old ones from the days it first started, I think the grand stories of riches and that the lowest classes of people could have a part of it created these expectations. Many came here with the intent of making money, SL is very like an African dictatorship when it comes to business, goodwill is a phantom that can be removed on a glance, I don't mean this in a negative way but in a way that is because it is the only way to run a state when investment and skilled people are hard to get, we are reaching an age of changing tech, new hardware is being created and that will isolate a lot of software based business, the use of the PC will decline and new tech will take over, SL like FB have a system that suits the PC and are likely to be victims that can only react rather than leading, all my other threads over the past 2 weeks or so have all been related to this change I know that is coming but I can see that I maybe alone as to the depth I see it.

Golden rule is always adapt to survive, how we do it here with something that could be heading for a tech dead end I don't know.

 

I might add that if the lindens feel the same then they will look for other things and try to get the most out of what they have, that would explain a lot of things, but they could never say that.

[Ceka Cianci]

---

JeanneAnne wrote:

---

Boudicca Littlebird wrote:

I have noticed that the goodwill between some and the lindens is very thin, is there two groups here, one that come to SL to be entertained and another group that come here to do business, what I have noticed in these threads is that those that run business are very stressed and on their last legs as regards goodwill, whereas the ones here for just entertainment can see nothing wrong and dismiss the other group out of hand, am I wrong or is this a trend?

 

From my own point of view I am here for business, I find the lindens aloft and out of touch, like they judge all people by how much money they can get from them, directly or indirectly, I have also found they use some residents as spy's just to ask questions while they listen (do I give those a disjointed view on life, lol), the thing about people focused on money is that they are very backward in all other areas, but that is my view do any others share it?

---

I think you're right Boudicca. As soon as someone starts regarding a game as being a business, they turn greedy & crabby. Seems to me like this forum is dominated by ppl who think of SL as a business opportunity for themselves, rather than as a game to have fun playing.

Jeanne

---

i just look at it as an experience myself..i have my own businesses in rl and don't need anymore..

all though i understand there are a lot of businesses inside of sl..i mean if they were not here..it would be pretty empty..

there is an economy that does have a flow to it..without it i'm sure it would be like those other small grids and really just never would have took off like it did..

i don't think i could ever just limit SL to being just a game..

there is a lot of real useful learning that can be done here..and meeting people from all over the world..that's been pretty enlightening on a real world level..

actually if i were to open a business in sl..to me that would be more of a game for me..mainly to see how well it would do..facing all the changes and challenges and trying to adapt to them..

where i know and understand that there are people here that do take their businesses very serious..because there is a market for their things here..

it's a real world market  dealing with real world value..that is no game..there are a lot that are making a living  from their businesses here..but there are a lot just making extra money as well..and some just paying tier or a membership or a night out at dinner..

there are lots of levels..

to some it's a game..to others it's serious business..to others it's a communication platform and so on..

it's defiantly not just one thing..

 

 

[Phil Deakins]

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Boudicca Littlebird wrote:

If you have no problems with the lindens then you have no problem with goodwill,  the goodwill I talk of is the goodwill between you and the lindens and if you feel it is balanced, you have said it is, whereas others like Phil says it is not.

---

That's not quite what I meant, and what I've said numerous times in this forum. Apart from (some of) the Lindens who man the AR system, who simply don't do what LL pays them to do, I have no ill-will towards Lindens. In fact, I have a great deal of goodwill towards some of them. It's the company that I have ill-will for, which means the decision-makers.

It's the decision-makers who instructed Lindens to stop communicating with their customers. Yes, that did happen. It's the decision-makers who decided to cut down so much on customer support, to the extent that hardly any exists any more. It's the decision-makers who screwed their customers (financially) in the Homestead fiasco. It's the decision-makers who totally ignored their customers by pressing on regardless with the V2 viewer, in spite of a 95% vote against it in their own poll. It's the decision-makers who chose to communicate via external systems, wherre their customers wouldn't see it. It's the decision-makers who unscrupulously plugged their own website mall at the expense of SL stores. The company is run by the decision-makers, so it's the company that I have ill-will towards and not the lower down ranks of Lindens..

[Kazimira McConnell]

I think with the recent server problems and now one of my favorate stores haveing a closeing down sale Yeah I can see the love of the lindens slipping.

The econimy is istting us all very hard and those that are runing busnisses here are being hit by tier and needing to pay more to get lindens to pay it plus people not able to buy as much because not as much money to turn into lindons.

SL is diffrent for everyone and everyone relies upon everyone else. A busniss woman that uses SL for busniss meetings nees a good professional AO good professional gestures probably for lots of diffrent cultureal greetings and a very good looking smart busniss outfit. That busniss woman is relieing  upon lots of other people in SL to get what she wants to get done all sorted and done.

The thing that I think might help keep people in SL is probably whats imposable. We need to have land at a price that means shops can be shops and hangouts can be hangouts and dont need to push the shop aspect in anyones face in order to make tier.

Another thing is we used to have advertiseing I came to SL origonaly beccause it was shown on brittish TV,  Perhaps some advertiseing showing how far SL has come might help.

[Phil Deakins]

Your post was much too big to quote, Ceka, so I'll just write a few thoughts 

A well run company caters to the needs of its customers. I don't see any improvement in catering to LL's customers. In fact, I see a deterioration. Some of the things you mentioned are true - Realms, for instance. But I'd much rather have the return of decent customer service than new novelty features.

I've only heard one interview given by Oz. It was good but where is all the communication? Lindens were instructed to stop communicating. You mentioned the marketplace. Where was the communication when it fell over after the direct delivery switch. Customers were screaming in the marketplace sub-forum but there was nobody there who would answer their screams. One person described it as WW3 breaking out.

I'd love LL to treat customers as customers, so that customers actually feel like real customers, but I have not seen any evidence at all of it happening. All I ever see is the whittling away of what there was.

 

[Boudicca Littlebird]

Sorry stand corrected.

 

[PeachJubilee]

Part of what has to be delivered on is the appearance of caring.  Caring for the quality of product, caring for the experiences customers are having.  Sure you don't have to actually care, but you're not delivering if your customers believe you don't care, and it tends to work out that those who care about their customers' experience are better at deliverying the kind of high quality experience that gives customers the impression that the provider cares.

 

With respect to the market, that's nice for you Ceka but it does not help the person with G rated products who has someone's BDSM gear showing up on their G rated listing, in their G rated store which they are checking up on while they are logged in with their settings set up to only see G rated items, from their place of work in Saudi Arabia.  Nor does it help a teen checking their store in similar circumstances while their parent is over their shoulder, and if it comes to that and the parent happens to be particularly "sue-happy" it probably won't help LL much either.

[Phil Deakins]

---

PeachJubilee wrote: 

With respect to the market, that's nice for you Ceka but it does not help the person with G rated products who has someone's BDSM gear showing up on their G rated listing, in their G rated store which they are checking up on while they are logged in with their settings set up to only see G rated items, from their place of work in Saudi Arabia.  Nor does it help a teen checking their store in similar circumstances while their parent is over their shoulder, and if it comes to that and the parent happens to be particularly "sue-happy" it probably won't help LL much either.

---

Haven't they fixed that problem yet? It's been quite a while since I read about it happening to a lot of marketplace merchants. It's completely ludicrous that it started happening at all. Has LL said anything worth saying about it or are they still in the 'we don't have to tell you anything' mode?

[Ceka Cianci]

i'll keep this one shorter and  just say a few things..then pretty much be done with it ..because i have work tonight and have to get some sleep lol

we are looking at the same world from our own perspective..

you're seeing  it from your view and i'm seeing it from mine..

an example..i mention realms and the tools and you see realms the novelty..when the tools and things that could come from that testing were my point..

the market..

someone that may have been gone for a week or two from SL would never have noticed a problem with the market crashing or change over..

someone here all the time saw WW3

the person that was gone for two weeks..they came back to a better performing market place..

so it's not all one dimensional..

they didn't need LL to tell them what was going on..because it was better for them..they won't complain about somethign that works better..

there is more than just one type of customer in sl..

i can look from a bunch of different views at one thing..but my concern is what came from it or is going to..not what they talked about behind closed doors to make it happen..

each road is gonna rub someone  somewhere the wrong way..but it's not gonna rub everyone the wrong way..

we all have had our turn getting rubbed the wrong way in the past..they were not all at the same time..

i'm just saying..i'm not feeling like they are rubbing me the wrong way now..when they do i'll pull away from the friction and dump my premium again and my sim and my time ..like i did with the M period..

some may feel they are getting the bad rub from them right now..i'm not saying they aren't..

i'm just saying..not everyone is..

 

[PeachJubilee]

---

Phil Deakins wrote:

---

PeachJubilee wrote: 

With respect to the market, that's nice for you Ceka but it does not help the person with G rated products who has someone's BDSM gear showing up on their G rated listing, in their G rated store which they are checking up on while they are logged in with their settings set up to only see G rated items, from their place of work in Saudi Arabia.  Nor does it help a teen checking their store in similar circumstances while their parent is over their shoulder, and if it comes to that and the parent happens to be particularly "sue-happy" it probably won't help LL much either.

---

Haven't they fixed that problem yet? It's been quite a while since I read about it happening to a lot of marketplace merchants. It's completely ludicrous that it started happening at all. Has LL said anything worth saying about it or are they still in the 'we don't have to tell you anything' mode?

---

I think from the patchy communication that LL's stance is that it is a years old problem form the XStreet migration that just seemed worse because of all the DD transition activity.  This apparently made the problem much more visible or something. 

Anyway, more or less, they are aware and always have been aware of this problem.  They are and always have been fixing it. 

In good news, chocolate rations have gone up.

 

Most recent thread about this issue...

[JeanneAnne]

---

cinda Hoodoo wrote:

I have been in SL for a very long time, and have run a business, for over 6 years in SL. The trend has always been, those that can pay and are willing to, for services or products, and the free loaders. The trend for the last few years has been, that SL is a "free" source of entertainment like TV. While i provide small rentals for incredibly cheap prices, we have to constantly beg for rent to be paid on time, or for a tenant to even let us know they have moved on.  We have and do take care of our long time customers, and have made sure they can keep their homes, even when RL has dealt them some financial woes.

 The ones in SL i feel the worse for, are club owners, that have to throw money at residents to even get them in a club. I am sorry, but if i have to pay someone to come and fun, forget it. I have seen full stage entertainment in SL walk away with less than 1K in tips with over 50 ppl attending the concerts or venues.  Entertainment needs to organize in SL and make everyone pay to enjoy being entertained in SL. There is really no reason for traffic any longer since the MarketPlace has put most malls out of business. At least entertainers are willing to work for their money, which is more than i can say for 80% of our residents, that hoard around freebie chairs like moths to a light bulb. Don't get me wrong, i enjoy an occasional freebie from a store i have spent money in and stay in their group, its a nice perk for loyal shoppers.

So yes goodwill is running thin, of course the entertained that don't tip (freeloaders)  are very happy and content in SL, while the entertainers and creators are pulling their hair out trying to make a few bucks to pay for rent and other things they need to put into their businesses to keep the doors open.

---

Linden Labs is a corporation. Corporations exist soley for the purpose of providing profit for shareholders & corporate executives. Corporations & their decision makers have no goodwill towards even their employees, let alone those they wish to obtain profit from. Corporations may act as if they have goodwill towards their customers, simply for the sake of getting more $$$ out of the "marks." Corporations will say & do anything for the sake of profit. Even break the law if they think they can get away with it. Linden Labs only cares about their own profit, not that of content creators or vendors within SL. They will server the interests of content creators & vendors only if by in so doing, their own interests are served. If LL perceives that their own interests & the interests of those attempting to do business w/in SL conflict, they will serve their own interests, not yours.

LL decision makers have decided to make SL available for "free loaders" to play for free. On the surface this seems to conflict with their own profit oriented interests. It must not do so, tho, or it wouldn't be allowed. LL execs must feel that by allowing the majority of players to play SL for free, they ensure high concurrency in the hope that a small percentage of "free loaders" will buy premium accounts, buy L$ &/or pay tier. People like me, tho, have made a comittment to not spending any real money on SL. To my mind, the "goal" of the "game" is to have fun, have a quality experience, have a nice looking avatar, etc., without spending a cent of money doing so. Some have said that pulling this off means that I have "won" the "game." Of course, they have said this derisively, with the intent of mocking us "free loaders." But I take it as a compliment. Truly I have "won." I don't fret over paying tier, obsess over a "business," or do without in RL cuzuv the $$$ I spent playing SL. So as far as I'm concerned it's all in fun & I'm not concerned about any perceived lack of goodwill on LL's part towards anyone.

Jeanne

[Phil Deakins]

When I used the word "novelty" I meant the tools that may come from Realms. You described horses and zombies, for instance. That's novelty to me. Mesh and sculpties are also novelty compared to customer service and relations. Many people pay LL hundreds of US$ each and every month. For that, they can expect reasonable customer service and they don't get it anything like it. Adding 'novelties' isn't an alternative to my way of thinking.

Judging by a post in this thread since we started this mini-dialogue, the marketplace is still badly screwed up. It doesn't matter that someone, like yourself, gets quick deliveries, or that someone who was absent for a couple of weeks notices quicker deliveries when they get back. The thing doesn't work properly, whether everybody notices it or not. Just ask those many merchants who's marketplace stores show the wrong stuff - as described in the post I mentioned. But this isn't about the faulty marketplace. It's about LL's lack of communication to its paying customers (marketplace merchants) about the massive faults. They used to communicate a bit but it stopped. And it stopped during Rodvik's tenure.

Of course different people see things in different ways, as you said, because different people do different things. But just because one person doesn't see a fault, doesn't mean that there isn't a fault. It's the ones who do see the faults who should be listened to, because they do things where the faults actually show up. Unfortunately, LL's policy is not to listen to their own paying customers. They don't talk to customers and they don't listen to customers. Any exceptions prove that rule - because they are exceptions. The company (decision-makers) don't deserve any goodwill from their customers. They don't try to get any and they don't deserve any.

[JeanneAnne]

>>Judging by a post in this thread since we started this mini-dialogue, the marketplace is still badly screwed up. It doesn't matter that someone, like yourself, gets quick deliveries, or that someone who was absent for a couple of weeks notices quicker deliveries when they get back. The thing doesn't work properly...<<

I agree that MP doesn't work properly. I've ordered things from the MP & not received them. I've had to IM the vendor then wait for it to be made right. But you know what? I don't really care... I only order freebie stuff from MP, or fairly inexpensive stuff with L$ I obtained inworld somehow. So it doesn't really make any difference to me whether I receive the stuff I ordere or not. I'm not out any real money if I don't & it's all just cartoons anyhow. Play for free & stop obsessing ...

Jeanne

[Phil Deakins]

---

PeachJubilee wrote:

I think from the patchy communication that LL's stance is that it is a years old problem form the XStreet migration that just seemed worse because of all the DD transition activity.  This apparently made the problem much more visible or something. 

Anyway, more or less, they are aware and always have been aware of this problem.  They are and always have been fixing it. 

In good news, chocolate rations have gone up. 

Most recent thread about this issue...

---

Wow! It really has been going on a long time now and there is no indication of it being fixed. If it came from the XStreet migration, it wasn't very widespread because I don't recall everyone being up in arms about it until the DD switch. Even so, it's such a bad fault that, even if it didn't affect many merchants after the XStreet transfer, it really should have been fixed back then - a very long time ago. But it's indicative of what LL, the decision-makes/company, thinks about their paying customers.

To be honest, I've never used the marketplace, or its predecessors, so all the screw-ups that LL have caused with it haven't affected me in the slightest. Some of the other things I mentioned in this htread, such as the Homestead fiasco, didn't affect me either. But it's years of watching LL's perfoemance towards their paying customers that slowly turned my goodwill towards them into actual ill-will. I'm not neutral. I am positively against LL, the company, and I wouldn't lift a finger to help them in any way.

[JeanneAnne]

>>.. I don't recall everyone being up in arms about it until..<<

Why would anyone in their right mind be "up in arms" over a game?!? That's wacko.

>>To be honest, I've never used the marketplace, or its predecessors, so all the screw-ups that LL have caused with it haven't affected me in the slightest.<<

Then why do you even care? Why do you keep complaining about it? It's like you're obsessing over something that apparently doesn't even concern you.

>> I'm not neutral. I am positively against LL, the company...<<

I'm against all corporations. They are by law & by their very natures sociopathic. They exist only to serve their own interests, not the common interest. They appeal to the very worst in human nature. They thrive on competition not cooperation. This said, however, how is LL any worse than any other corporation? LL is only looking after their bottom line, not anyone else's. All corporations engage in the exact same socio-pathological behavior.

>>..and I wouldn't lift a finger to help them in any way."

Do you actually think they care?

Jeanne

 

[Czari Zenovka]

 

Ceka Cianci wrote:

---

market place was crap because M pushed everyone to it with his V2..now that users use it for their main source of shopping..it was getting over used..laggy and almost took forever to do anything on it..

a new system was put in place to help with faster more reliable delivery and  it works..in seconds i get my things..it's not as laggy as it used to be either..

---

Errrrmmmmmm....have you taken a look at the Merchants Forum lately? 

To begin with, not all merchants are using the direct delivery system yet.  In my case, I can't because I have an older PC, v2+/Firestorm are required to list products using it (any viewer can receive, ie. customers), other merchants are waiting to migrate because of the gazillion issues that are now occurring and waiting to see if they get fixed (LL has now pushed back requiring merchants to migrate to DD from May to August and the way things are going I would dare to bet the deadline gets pushed back again), and other merchants haven't even heard of it yet.  So if you're getting your items delivered more speedily, it isn't necessarily due to DD...it's probably in spite of it.

As for the current MP issues, where to start...but here's a few:

*Mixed listings - A merchant's item has the correct product description, but the image from another store.  (I currently have 3 listings of heart candles that show images of shoes.)  Jira 4587 was created for this one.  Just glancing at this jira alone will give you an idea of how messed up the MP is and has been since DD was deployed. (https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-4587?)

*Mixed listings 2 - Then there's the correct image of a merchant's item, but the description from another merchant's item.  For awhile, my Victorian Hearts Welcome Mat had the description of "Hopeless Romantic Seeks Filthy Wh0re."  Just lovely.

These two issues alone are wreaking havoc.  Customers, especially non-English speaking ones, are purchasing an item according to the image and getting mad at the merchant when something else shows up.  G rated items have X rated images in the mixed listings, which is a whole other can of worms.

*No payment received - Some merchants have had a product sold, the customer paid, product was delivered, but the merchant not only did not receive their money, there is absolutely nothing in the transaction log that shows the transaction occurred.  The only reason some merchants know about this is that in one case a customer contacted a merchant to ask a question about the product (which the merchant had no idea was sold to this customer due to the preceeding) and other situations where the purchasers were friends of the merchant.  There is no way to tell how many merchants this is happening to.

*Strange sales cycles - Many merchants, including me, are experiencing sales cycles that are not their "norm."  All sales go up and down depending on different circumstances, but merchants who have been in business a number of years pretty much know those cycles.  Since DD was deployed, there have been periods of times where sales literally stop...then one item will sell a lot out of the blue (an item that never sold) while previous top sellers aren't selling...various merchants have different issues with this but there is an overall wierdness.  Considering the "No payment received" issue - sales could be great but some of us may never know.

There are many other issues going on with the MP at the moment but these are the main ones.  I've noticed that even the merchants who loved the idea of DD when it first began are now very displeased with the entire situation.

Oh...and Rodvik did comment on this situation.  A one liner on Twitter!!!!!  Not on the Merchants Forum or anywhere on the official SL site.  In my opinion M. was the absolute worst...but given this action by Rodvik, he's not gaining high marks from me yet.

Just an FYI on the MP scene and why many merchants are currently very upset.

 

[Czari Zenovka]

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Kazimira McConnell wrote:

I think with the recent server problems and now one of my favorate stores haveing a closeing down sale Yeah I can see the love of the lindens slipping.

The econimy is istting us all very hard and those that are runing busnisses here are being hit by tier and needing to pay more to get lindens to pay it plus people not able to buy as much because not as much money to turn into lindons.

SL is diffrent for everyone and everyone relies upon everyone else. A busniss woman that uses SL for busniss meetings nees a good professional AO good professional gestures probably for lots of diffrent cultureal greetings and a very good looking smart busniss outfit. That busniss woman is relieing  upon lots of other people in SL to get what she wants to get done all sorted and done.

The thing that I think might help keep people in SL is probably whats imposable. We need to have land at a price that means shops can be shops and hangouts can be hangouts and dont need to push the shop aspect in anyones face in order to make tier.

Another thing is we used to have advertiseing I came to SL origonaly beccause it was shown on brittish TV,  Perhaps some advertiseing showing how far SL has come might help.

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Excellent points.  The bolded part has been my "battle cry" for years.  I truly believe if the tier prices were adjusted down a bit with smaller jumps between levels, more people would go premium and buy mainland.  I was a premium member for years and have owned varying amounts of land, but finally went back to basic and rent land because I can rent more land at a lower price in a wonderful location than paying monthly premium fees plus higher "rent" in the form of tier for less land.

[Czari Zenovka]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

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PeachJubilee wrote: 

With respect to the market, that's nice for you Ceka but it does not help the person with G rated products who has someone's BDSM gear showing up on their G rated listing, in their G rated store which they are checking up on while they are logged in with their settings set up to only see G rated items, from their place of work in Saudi Arabia.  Nor does it help a teen checking their store in similar circumstances while their parent is over their shoulder, and if it comes to that and the parent happens to be particularly "sue-happy" it probably won't help LL much either.

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Haven't they fixed that problem yet? It's been quite a while since I read about it happening to a lot of marketplace merchants. It's completely ludicrous that it started happening at all. Has LL said anything worth saying about it or are they still in the 'we don't have to tell you anything' mode?

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It's still happening with more merchants regularly adding to the ranks of this happening to them.  CTL's response has been "We're aware of the issue and are working on it" and pushing the deadline for stopping Magic Boxes from May to August with 4 weeks advance notice.  And then there's the merchants not getting paid from their sales...all the stuff I just posted.

[Ceka Cianci]

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Phil Deakins wrote:

When I used the word "novelty" I meant the tools that may come from Realms. You described horses and zombies, for instance. That's novelty to me. Mesh and sculpties are also novelty compared to customer service and relations. Many people pay LL hundreds of US$ each and every month. For that, they can expect reasonable customer service and they don't get it anything like it. Adding 'novelties' isn't an alternative to my way of thinking.

Judging by a post in this thread since we started this mini-dialogue, the marketplace is still badly screwed up. It doesn't matter that someone, like yourself, gets quick deliveries, or that someone who was absent for a couple of weeks notices quicker deliveries when they get back. The thing doesn't work properly, whether everybody notices it or not. Just ask those many merchants who's marketplace stores show the wrong stuff - as described in the post I mentioned. But this isn't about the faulty marketplace. It's about LL's lack of communication to its paying customers (marketplace merchants) about the massive faults. They used to communicate a bit but it stopped. And it stopped during Rodvik's tenure.

Of course different people see things in different ways, as you said, because different people do different things. But just because one person doesn't see a fault, doesn't mean that there isn't a fault. It's the ones who do see the faults who should be listened to, because they do things where the faults actually show up. Unfortunately, LL's policy is not to listen to their own paying customers. They don't talk to customers and they don't listen to customers. Any exceptions prove that rule -

because

they are exceptions. The company (decision-makers) don't deserve any goodwill from their customers. They don't try to get any and they don't deserve any.

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i never said the market was running perfect..i said from my perspective it is running better..i'm not a merchant..i'm a consumer that spends hundreds of dollars a month on market place alone not counting in world and my tier..i'm on it all the time..it's open when my sl is running..just as these forums are..

and really so far..every time i have needed customer service..i've opened a ticket and it's been handled pretty promt..

the only time there was a problem was with my husbands account ..which was his fault..but i remember him being upset because of how long that took and him finally having to make a new account to fix the problem..it sure wasn't because they were not communicating with him..

other than that ..any time i've had to call them or make a ticket  it's been handle..

i knew a long time ago that if i had a problem to open a ticket or make a phone call if it was something LL needed to handle..and if i could get answers from other users ..hey thats even better..but i never went to blogs or feeds or the forums when i needed customer service..

 

you asked what has rodvik done since he has been here..i gave some examples..communication was only one part  we were going on about..

then it's became all about communication..

i'm not saying everyone is happy..i'm saying not everyone is upset..

i also remember sayng that rodivk came out and was communicating with users at first ..he was in these forums and 3rd party forums( because i remember people being upset that he posted on slu a few times) and on his feed and twitter and blogs..

he even got crap for making a pony instead of a bear..i mean wtf? \o/

he more than likely realized that was a mistake getting too close..because when you do something like that you get flooded with every kind of problem and question from..why is this box on my head? to what are you going to do about tier prices?

 

and my opinion does count..just because i'm not a merchant running a business in sl doesn't mean i get pushed to the side and my opinions mean squat..if anything..i dump serious money into this world just like them if not more than them.. and into content creators businesses and where ever i decide to put it without ever expecting a return..just my sl stuff that will never leave this world..i'm not cashing out to pay my bills or my tier or whatever..it's all profit for the grid..a pure dump into the econemy with no bleed off..

you can't say that merchants are more important than consumers and have more say about this world..that when a consumer says..hey i think things are going well to tell them no you are wrong?

i'm not wrong about how things are going for me..it's my goodwill that is not running thin..

i don't need to be in constant communication with LL..infact i don't want to be in a position where i have to worry why they haven't spoken to me..i don't need updated constantly..

maybe M's focus was on merchants and market and money and cattle stock..

maybe rodviks focus is on creators and the cooler world and user experience and a cooler SL in whole..maybe the CEO's focus is not stores and merchants and commerce and money this time around..maybe it's a bit wider and including everyone this time..

3 CEO's 3 different worlds..

the old SL left when Phil Linden did..

my goodwill is still intact..yours may not be..any anyone elses may or may not be..

i'm not saying they are wrong for feeling how they do..and i'm not gonna have mine changed because someone else is having a bad trip..

my good will is just as important as as anyones bad will..

i have no reason to go in the merchant forums..i'm not a merchant..it's not part of my world..

i'm in general and avatar and machinima and lifestyles and friends and a few others because those are part of my world..

in the real world my business investments are in construction and horse breeding and farming..

if those are doing well then so am i..if nightclubs get new laws imposed on them from my state that change their whole world..i probably won't even notice it or worry about why it didn't make the headline to let me know about it..and it probably won't change my world or businesses any...or any good or bad will i may have with the state i live in..i don't worry about the whole world everyday..because i have enough on my plate with my own little world..

when someone asks me how i feel about my state..the answer i give them won't be a lie.. lol

it will be from my perspective..