Why do the minority / envious/ prudes rule? In regards To Byngo Bonus and other such Things.

[Sabrina Silverweb]

well that goes back to it being on the player to know if the are allowed to play online games in thier state as its not Federal but state mandated...some staes don't allow it.. I can get online and play a UK bingo game using my US address from the state i live in ...my state doesn't have a ban..

[Iam Runningbear]

 Sounds more to me like the subcontractor to the subcontractor just got screwed.

[Trixie Silvercloud]

but bingo is held in churches in every state in america so why would it not be ok to play in sl?

[Sabrina Silverweb]

thats what I was screaming two days ago trixie, I can play bingo in every VFW in every state I have lived in..maybe its because some of the funds go to charity...who knows

[Lydia Craig]

Funny how you suddenly change the argument to a question of gaming liscenses, this smells like smoke and mirrors to me, and ultimately the only way it can be settled unless LL decides it back down or the creators of Byngo decide to not fight is either in Federal Court which will open LL to a level of scrutiny that it may not want to face, or before the WTO which already has reviewed and the case involving casinos, and in case you did not know the WTO, which was established by international treaties takes precedence over even Federal Courts.  Also as I recall it is a basic part of all US law that actions that do not have a a clear appeal process automatically can be taken to Federal Court, so this could get very interesting

 

[Trixie Silvercloud]

and he was talking about some of the funding going to charities remember this past week in group?

[Sabrina Silverweb]

you mean the creator of Byngo said some of the funding went to charities?

[Innula Zenovka]

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Lydia Craig wrote:

Funny how you suddenly change the argument to a question of gaming liscenses, this smells like smoke and mirrors to me, and ultimately the only way it can be settled unless LL decides it back down or the creators of Byngo decide to not fight is either in Federal Court which will open LL to a level of scrutiny that it may not want to face, or before the WTO which already has reviewed and the case involving casinos, and in case you did not know the WTO, which was established by international treaties takes precedence over even Federal Courts.  Also as I recall it is a basic part of all US law that actions that do not have a a clear appeal process automatically can be taken to Federal Court, so this could get very interesting

 

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If someone will provide me with the case number and court, I will watch its progress through the US legal system with considerable interest.  

[Cinnamon Lohner]

US law has nothing to do with this issue.  Only the SL TOS.  And it is vague enough to allow LL plenty of latitude with regards to decisions like this one.   What IS at issue is the fact the the owner of this game decided to shut his servers down ON HIS OWN.  This according to all published accounts.  LL has NOT ordered him to shut down as far as I can tell.  A good savvy business person would have kept their operation running.  Seems to me he has decided he is going to be shutdown for gambling and is making a huge drame scene so that he can keep all the money he's earned from the land owners that bought into his "yes its legal" sales pitch.

--Cinn

[Trixie Silvercloud]

no he said he was going to donate some to charities and was going to have a meeting on which charites to give to 

[Sabrina Silverweb]

someone needs to update Cinn lol ...send her the notecard..

[Lydia Craig]

Gee when you cant think of anything to say about the merits of the issue you begin to defame the guy who was attacked, this is so typical, but as for a legal case I am sure you and your sponsors know full well not case has yet been filed, but they also undoubtably know that such a case is a real legal possibility and that sooner or later they will in their arrorgance set upon someone who will file on them, and they also know that a court case is the very last thing they want to see for they really cannot stand anyone taking a close look at even a small part of the way the do business.

[Trixie Silvercloud]

I still can't believe they removed your post ...nothing wrong with the truth is there?

 

[Trixie Silvercloud]

sorry they removed your post , maybe the truth hurts? lol

[Iam Runningbear]

Cinnamon Lohner.... you have no clue what your talking about.... i didnt buy into anything and there is no money owed to me for anything. I am an owner and it was a very popular game. Your comment and response leaves me to questions your motives for even commenting. Especially with what you had to say. Your right this is a Tos Issue. The fact they violate thier very own TOS. Maybe you should read it sometime and become familar with it.

[Cinnamon Lohner]

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Trixie Silvercloud wrote:

protecting his game and avatars from being susspended is causing drama? 

i would protect my av as well if no explaination was given to me 

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No.  Turning his server off is causing all the drama.  There is no reason why he can't turn the service back on.  As I see it, turning it off is an omission of guilt.  The best course of action in my opinion is for him to turn everything back on and deal with the game removals on a case by case basis.

--Cinn

[Sabrina Silverweb]

so only question i pose to that is.... the games are owned by an avie that is banned for TOS violation...so turning the servers and game back on seems like a good idea?

[Sabrina Silverweb]

and that was to CInn not Iam

 

[Iam Runningbear]

 I created this thread and it  drew attention LL. Removing what is written will never change what people think. You can remove posts after all it is your game and your rules even if you do change them to suit you. I don't think it is fair as this is a discussion not a place for you to reason or control free speech..... Yes free speech. You created this avenue of free speech but you censor it. What law is violated there? Since everyone is so hung up on US law concerning this game. Why the censorship of free speech?

[Iam Runningbear]

Yea turn them back on and risk a 3rd to be reported and returned and his avi banned from SL.. that a real smart move. Just proves to me he is no fool. You would like for him to do this wouldn't you?

[Iam Runningbear]

 I do have one final comment / question..... When did the TOS supersede the First Amendment? Since we are all so concerned about possible online gambling laws. After all I am American and I live in America. If the US Online Gambling Laws apply here then why not my first amendment rights guaranteeing freedom of speech?

[Omni Huntress]

WELL GET READY,,,, I'm getting a lawyre and i suggest the sim owners get one too.....

[Snickers Snook]

Linden Lab can take your land, steal your $L, remove your IP and kill all your Meeros, PlantPets and baby horses with impunity if they so choose (see TOS and other legalese). They have proven their willingness to do it too -- time and time again (Zindra, homesteads, etc.). Anyone who thinks they can make a REAL business under those circumstances is kidding themselves. It's especially fruitless in the very gray area of gaming that pays a percentage to the house.

[Iam Runningbear]

 I agree 100% and it has gotten worse in the last 2 yrs.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Trixie Silvercloud wrote:

but bingo is held in churches in every state in america so why would it not be ok to play in sl?

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Actually in the state where I live Bingo was illegal until a special law was passed to allow non profit organizations to run bingo games for charitable purposes only.  You have to meet certain specific requirements to legally run one, including being a legally registered charity and having a permit.  This operation would be illegal in my state.  It is also illegal here  to provide a service accessible to people in my state where they can play it even if the server or company is not in the state or even in the US.  The law here is similar to a lot of other states' laws that allow bingo for charitable purposes, but that do not allow other forms of gambling.

I am not familiar with California law to say if this applies there too, however, states are do not function as countries but as parts of a whole and while there are variations in law from state to state , they cooperate with each other in enforcement efforts.  LL is a US company and subject to US federal law as well as the laws of any state where they do business.

The official LL gambling policy specifically states bingo is not allowed.  I've never played this game or have any interest in doing so, but I suspect by the very name of the game that it is just bingo with a twist.

@ Lydia: People have a right to disagree with LL's policies or with the laws of the US or any of its states, however it is not their right to question any LL decision as it is a private company, and they agreed to the TOS when they joined SL, which no one forced them to do.  The only right they have if they disagree with it is to leave SL.  No court is going to touch this.  The WTO has no absolute jurisdiction in the US and cannot force their rulings upon anyone here without the cooperation of the US Government.  A treaty is just a treaty and is only worth the paper it is printed on unless all the parties agree to its terms AND continue to do so.  History is full of examples of treaties being broken by most countries when it no longer is in their best interest.