Why do the minority / envious/ prudes rule? In regards To Byngo Bonus and other such Things.

[Iam Runningbear]

Originally this was a reply to a previous Post but I would like some answers and opinions on why people think LL economy is dying? The following is a reply I left concerning the recent Blocking of a very popular and lucrative new game in SL.

Byngo Bonus

With 400 sims using this game they can not say they didn't know about it. It is sad some jealous Prude not capable of creating a box to has AR a single game board and have it removed without first LL checking it out to see if there is a skill factor involved. Just as in the security item RedZone that the panic over ISP info being copied sent them in a frenzy to pull and outlaw this device. Did not the ones ARing that device understand that every website they visit copies their ISP address. Even Second Life. Do they not know each time they do a search, a code is sent to the browser to select targeted advertising. LL is only concerned with keeping the peace. Damn the results. Are the workers in charge of this responsibility Inept? Your damn right they are. Once again, someone inability to design & build a successful game and the ease of a prudish group of their followers has the ability to control the masses. Even the Adult migration to Zindra was pushed forward by a bunch of damn fools who thought pushing them to the far corners of SL would make them go away. Well guess what? They only further killed the economy in SL/ Linden Labs. Get your heads out of your Collective Butts and start supporting the movers of this game or you run the risk of losing us all. I assure you when that day cames and it will not be long before someone with the means will team up and duplicate this rust bucket and walk everyone right out from under your nose. Then you can have your prudes with no payment info, and no ability to buy lindens, sell lindens and perfectly happy with the noob free clothing provided at start up. How long do you think you will last?

 

[Innula Zenovka]

I don't know what Byngo Bonus is, but it sounds to me like some sort of version of Bingo.  In which case, I think you need to direct your complaints to the US government, in the hope they will rethink their views on online gambling.

 

[Iam Runningbear]

Its a game that requires input from humans to make a decision that can effect the outcome of the game and if the input is used correctly..(Skill Required) Then the outcome can be greatly changed.

No surprise there is no knowledge of the game or how it works.

[Innula Zenovka]

You know the game.  I don't.   Does it seem to you to be caught by this description?

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This policy only applies to wagering games that involve an element of chance. This includes, for instance, any game involving random number generation, simulated dice, cards, poker, lotteries, bingo, or any other "chance" game. Games of pure intellectual or physical skill, such as puzzles or other skill contests, may not fall under this definition.

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[SynsualSyn Sawson]

It was approved by LL's already, the fact is that the 2 LL employees didnt do their job right!  

[Iam Runningbear]

This game as I previously stated requires certain input  by a human.... This is where the skill level comes into play. What you do within this game can greatly change the outcome of the game. A bot or computer can not reason this determination. For it to reason this. It would first have to know the numerical outcome. The only thing a computer can do is make a logical choice. Sometimes (Just like LL) the logical choice is the wrong one.

This game is as much a skill game as any kickerz game or the washed up worn out Zyngo

[Innula Zenovka]

According to the FAQ on the subject, LL don't pre-approve games; they start on the basis that if the creator thinks it's a game of skill, then it is, but if someone thinks differently and ARs it, then they'll contact the creator, ask for details of how it works and then either decide it's OK or not.

If you're saying it's already been ARd before and pronounced OK, then I would think the best thing to do is raise a support ticket referencing the previous incident and giving the name of the Linden who OKd it.   I don't see what else you can do.

[Iam Runningbear]

Then why is it taking a week to get a reply from LL as to whether or not it is a legal game.? Hmmmm??

[Iam Runningbear]

Support tickets have been raised... a week  ago. Why does it take a week to make a decision,\?

 

[Alexi Raynier]

Bingo is an illegal online gambling game? Get serious!  I just googled Bingo and got 36,800,000 hits most of which were for online bingo sites, many of which I assure you offer cash prizes.  This not only makes you insinuation not only seem a bit silly, but cast some question on the merits of LL's case against Byngo in general, especially when added to this absurd situation, the very concept of the enforceability of the tos as a valid contract would seem to be a clear violation of the UCC. Could be that this will make a very interesting legal precedent.

[Innula Zenovka]

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Iam Runningbear wrote:

This game as I previously stated requires certain input that by a human.... This is where the skill level comes into play. What you do within this game can greatly change the outcome of the game. A bot or computer can not reason this determination. For it to reason this. It would first have to know the numerical out came. The only thing a computer can do is make a logical choice. Sometimes (Just like LL) the logical choice is the wrong one.

This game is as much a skill game as any kickerz game or the washed up worn out Zyngo

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I have never understood why Zyngo gets a free pass, I have to say.   But it seems to me that the ToS say, in terms, that the fact that skill plays an element is neither here nor there; skill certainly plays a very considerable role in poker and backgammon, but they're banned by name.   

[Trixie Silvercloud]

I think if LL took the board it was thier obligation to at least report why to the creator as why it was AR"D period!

[Innula Zenovka]

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Alexi Raynier wrote:

Bingo is an illegal online gambling game? Get serious!  I just googled Bingo and got 36,800,000 hits most of which were for online bingo sites, many of which I assure you offer cash prizes.  This not only makes you insinuation not only seem a bit silly, but cast some question on the merits of LL's case against Byngo in general, especially when added to this absurd situation, the very concept of the enforceability of the tos as a valid contract would seem to be a clear violation of the UCC. Could be that this will make a very interesting legal precedent.

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Yeah, there are a lot of them based in the UK, where I live, and where it's perfectly legal to operate an online Bingo game if you have a licence.     If you're telling me that the proprietors of Byngo have an online gaming licence that's recognised by the US government and the State of California, then that might well cast a different light on the subject.

 

[Iam Runningbear]

If support tickets Have been sent.. A week ago.. (This isn't the first time for this one) No reply from LL. No answer. At All. Then why was the item removed? Funny how a shouting object can be ARed from a neighboring sim for 2 solid weeks 3 tickets filed on it and nothing done. Yet 2 AR's because someone did not win at the game and got pissed can get the item removed. Funny how fast LL will act for a certain few but not the ones that make this Virtual world go round and round..

[Innula Zenovka]

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Trixie Silvercloud wrote:

I think if LL took the board it was thier obligation to at least report why to the creator as why it was AR"D period!

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I agree.   That's certainly what they say they do.  

[SynsualSyn Sawson]

Zyngo is a Copy of SLYNGO that AOL had, so it was ok for them to prety much copy that game?

[SinfulDreamz Babii]

I still cant understand why the creator of the BYNGO game was never notified....anyone knows? (thought the creator was notified before they sent games back or banned them,,,or am i wrong?

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

Objects get removed for violations of the TOS.  Abuse reports only point out potential violations.  Once deemed a violation, the object will be removed.  << There's your answer.  If the object was removed, it was due to a violation of the TOS. ()

SL will do fine without that one game.  They're not legally bound to provide anything. ()y

 

 

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

Creators are rarely if not never notified.  If it worked that way, people who give out full perms prims would have to deal with every time their prims were to be used in a griefing.  No.  Caveat Emptor.  The end user is the responsible party. ()y

 

 

 

[Iam Runningbear]

lmao but will they do fine when people give up on them? And leave?.. Not because of the game but for their constant inept decisions that routinely ruin the Second Life economy. I have been here for 5 yrs and it is a mere shell of what it once was.

[Trixie Silvercloud]

hell no at least explain why geeeeeez, he tried all day to talk to them in person!  well at least on the phone

[Sabrina Silverweb]

http://www.gambling-law-us.com/Federal-Laws/internet-gambling-ban.htm

 

if its us gambling they are worried about..

 

thing is if the game isnt US based then the US doesnt goven over it, they players themselves have to be issued a warning that if they live in a state that does not allow internet gambling then they should not play the game as they are breaking the laws in their state maybe a button must be clicked when they pay in that says "you agree that the laws in your state or coutry do not forbid you to participate in online gambling" but honestly.. seems to defeat the point that the game is one of skill not wager ..so I have no idea, honestly, what LL is getting at by suggesting the game needs to follow US gambling rules if it is gambling then it doesnt follow TOS...smh

[Iam Runningbear]

That should work just as good as the Adult confirmation LL uses when you sign up for SL

[Sabrina Silverweb]

I agree Iam

[Innula Zenovka]

I think the three things -- three things, at least -- LL are going to be  worried about with any gambling game are

 

1. Do the people running it have a valid gaming licence?
2. If they do, is it sufficient to allow a company in California to host the game?
3. And what do PayPal and other online payment processors make of it?

IOW, it's not a question of whether it's legal for me, in the UK, to play online poker if I want to (which it is).   It's a question of whether it would be legal for LL to host a game, and whether PayPal would make difficulties about processing payments (which they almost certainly would unless it could be guaranteed that US residents weren't allowed to play -- any US resident who doubts this is invited to try opening an account with a legal British or Irish bingo site using a credit card or paypal with a US billing address).