Draw weight?

[Arlisse]

Hi everyone. I have been away for a long time, having a fresh start and a new outlook =)

I just wanted to ask, when I left SL, ARC was a consideration...I like to attend live music shows & hunts and I try to be considerate and keep my avatar's impact at a reasonable level for busy sims..

With the introduction of mesh and so on, I am a little bit lost on what it means to be low-lag anymore. After some research, I see that the new term is Avatar Draw Weight. Could someone give me some pointers on how NOT to be an annoyance at busy events please? Is there a magical ADW number I should be aware of? Are mesh items more draining on resources than prim items? Thanks!

 

[Persephone Emerald]

Whatever it's called, if the number over your head is green, you're good.

Generally, it's scripts you want to watch more so than prims. You can check how many active scripts you're using in the Advanced menu, but I like using a free script weight scale from Marketplace instead. It's only one prim & looks like a bathroom scale. I stand on it before going out to see how many scripts I have in my hair, clothing & other attachments. Then I look at what I'm wearing & select Edit on each object that might be scripted to see if it has scripts in its Contents.

If you find you're wearing scripted objects, you can usually make a copy & then delete the script out of one copy. Some creators still sell scripted items that are No Mod & don't have a menu option for deleting the resize & recolor scripts. But those kinds of items are frowned upon, so most resize & recolor scripts now have the option to be removed.

Worn mesh isn't generally a problem, just as worn prims don't create much lag without scripts in them. Rezzing mesh, however, may show a higher land impact than you'd expect.

[Arlisse]

Thanks so much! I had no idea the text color over my head meant something...lol. Also the script weight scale sounds like it would be a great help. I will look it up on Marketplace. I guess I have been away awhile...I was not thinking about scripts. You gave me lots to think about  =)

[Arlisse]

Persephone, could I trouble you for a link to that scale please? I did a search on marketplace for "script weight scale" and nothing is coming up.

[Persephone Emerald]

I'm sure there are others equally good, but this is the one I use:

 https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Weight-Scale-Script-Counter/1835786

[Arlisse]

Got it, thank you again

[Jenni Darkwatch]

A few more points: As others have said, draw weight isn't the only measure. As long as you're not obscenely high, you're fine.

Facelights (of any kind) are extremely annoying to everyone nearby for a number of reasons. Don't use them.

Particles can cause problems for old PCs. If a venue doesn't seem to encourage their use, don't use them (that includes poofers and "walk particles")

Since it can sometimes be a pain in the butt to rez some script weight thingie, I've sent you a (free) HUD one. It's fullperm and has a few additional functions that you may or may not want. You can turn the HUD off in busy venues to save on impact.

Be carefult with script time displays - when people TP into a sim, their script time will show extremely high while the scripts get initialized. It can take minutes for that to settle, especially if people have some obscene amount of scripts on them.

[Arlisse]

Just received it Jenni, thank you very much =) always nice to have options! 

[JeanneAnne]

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Jenni Darkwatch wrote:

Facelights (of any kind) are extremely annoying to everyone nearby for a number of reasons. Don't use them.

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There are mellow face liters that arent very bright .. i like seeing myself & have several face liters .. the 1 i usually wear isnt bad but i have older ones that are really bright .. i dont use the bright 1s anymore .. its just that sometimes i just wear saved outfits from the days when i only had a bright face lite & 4get to change it

Jeanne

[Clarissa Lowell]

Ghosty Kips made a "polite face light" it is in the freebies room at the Hangout.

Wait, is there still a freebies room at the (new) Hangout?

[Jenni Darkwatch]

The general problem is that the number of lights in any given scene is limited - at least when light&shadows is off. Thus, especially in busy venues, people with facelights will practically disable many/most/all lighting in the venue (or on a stage). That's regardless of facelight intensity or settings.

For people with light&shadows on, everyone with a facelight looks pretty ludicrous anyway, hence everyone i know with these settings active turn attached lights off.

[Perrie Juran]

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Jenni Darkwatch wrote:

The general problem is that the number of lights in any given scene is limited - at least when light&shadows is off. Thus, especially in busy venues, people with facelights will practically disable many/most/all lighting in the venue (or on a stage). That's regardless of facelight intensity or settings.

For people with light&shadows on, everyone with a facelight looks pretty ludicrous anyway, hence everyone i know with these settings active turn attached lights off.

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I sometimes wonder if people see the effects of their own face lights on their own computers.  In other words they are wearing them because someone told them that they would improve their appearance and that they are not willing to admit that they can not see the difference.

I have on a few occasions sent people screen shots of what I am seeing.  They had no idea what the facelight was actually doing.  But it gets touchy.  Some people are very easily offended.  But sometimes it just makes we want to scream when I find my own Avatar getting washed out by someone else's lights.  I consider Derender one of my best friends in SL.

Personally I use Nlight Free.  It's very subtle and has a low radius.  You can turn it on or off and also adjust its intensity with simple chat commands.  And best of all it's free. 

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/Nlight-FREE-20-Adjustable-Beauty-Light/476952

 

 

[PeterCanessa Oh]

Martians need facelights?

[Perrie Juran]

 

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PeterCanessa Oh wrote:

Martians need facelights?

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Only when we are wearing our human disguises.

[Paul Hexem]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Jenni Darkwatch wrote:

The general problem is that the number of lights in any given scene is limited - at least when light&shadows is off. Thus, especially in busy venues, people with facelights will practically disable many/most/all lighting in the venue (or on a stage). That's regardless of facelight intensity or settings.

For people with light&shadows on, everyone with a facelight looks pretty ludicrous anyway, hence everyone i know with these settings active turn attached lights off.

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I sometimes wonder if people see the effects of their own face lights on their own computers.  In other words they are wearing them because someone told them that they would improve their appearance and that they are not willing to admit that they can not see the difference. 

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I sometimes wonder this too. You see 'em walking around like a small sun, with a light radius of 10 meters and no falloff, glowing like they're frickin' radioactive... Probably because they maxed out the settings, thinking they couldn't see it because it was set too low.

[JeanneAnne]

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Gadget Portal wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Jenni Darkwatch wrote:

The general problem is that the number of lights in any given scene is limited - at least when light&shadows is off. Thus, especially in busy venues, people with facelights will practically disable many/most/all lighting in the venue (or on a stage). That's regardless of facelight intensity or settings.

For people with light&shadows on, everyone with a facelight looks pretty ludicrous anyway, hence everyone i know with these settings active turn attached lights off.

---

I sometimes wonder if people see the effects of their own face lights on their own computers.  In other words they are wearing them because someone told them that they would improve their appearance and that they are not willing to admit that they can not see the difference. 

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I sometimes wonder this too. You see 'em walking around like a small sun, with a light radius of 10 meters and no falloff, glowing like they're frickin' radioactive... Probably because they maxed out the settings, thinking they couldn't see it because it was set too low.

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Well .. my face lite looked fine to me .. but my sisters politely told me it was too bright .. so they found me a mellow one .. to me it looks no differnet but they say its much better .. so .. yeah .. its good to have other ppl tell you how you look to them .. things look different on different viewers & all ...

Jeanne

[Ann Otoole]

just make a new alpha layer and check all the boxes. take off everything including all scripts and huds. Wear the 100% invisible alpha layer. You will be good to go by LL's draw weight standards.

 

There you go.

 

Also this is what people should wear at fashion fairs. And the regions will still be croaking under the load of avatars with nothing to render and no scripts to run.

[Arlisse]

Thanks everyone, for the advice. I don't use a facelight except for photos, so I'm good there. I had not considered making an invisible av for fashion fairs...that is a great idea and I will definitely give it some thought. I used to use a  "shadow" avatar for events...before alpha was available, now that things have changed, that gives me something to think about...thank you Ann.

Just for the sake of discussion..suppose I don't want to always be invisible, lol. With music events for example, while I don't want to be a nuisence, I do like to dance, get to know people, and show support for the musicians. Could anyone recommend low-lag hair or shoes? I found some non-scripted hair at Bliss that is very low-prim. But more options would be nice...I am having a terrible time finding decent shoes without scripts though. Also, this might really be a stretch lol...but if anyone could suggest a very simple ao, that would not be too draining on resources...that would be great. I use an Oracle ao now. It has animated stands...would an ao with static poses be better? Or is any ao out of the question? Anyway, thanks again...I appreciate the feedback very much.

 

[Perrie Juran]

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JeanneAnne wrote:

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Gadget Portal wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Jenni Darkwatch wrote:

The general problem is that the number of lights in any given scene is limited - at least when light&shadows is off. Thus, especially in busy venues, people with facelights will practically disable many/most/all lighting in the venue (or on a stage). That's regardless of facelight intensity or settings.

For people with light&shadows on, everyone with a facelight looks pretty ludicrous anyway, hence everyone i know with these settings active turn attached lights off.

---

I sometimes wonder if people see the effects of their own face lights on their own computers.  In other words they are wearing them because someone told them that they would improve their appearance and that they are not willing to admit that they can not see the difference. 

---

I sometimes wonder this too. You see 'em walking around like a small sun, with a light radius of 10 meters and no falloff, glowing like they're frickin' radioactive... Probably because they maxed out the settings, thinking they couldn't see it because it was set too low.

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Well .. my face lite looked fine to me .. but my sisters politely told me it was too bright .. so they found me a mellow one .. to me it looks no differnet but they say its much better .. so .. yeah .. its good to have other ppl tell you how you look to them .. things look different on different viewers & all ...

Jeanne

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A friend asked me to come see something that they were building (an art project).  The top picture is what they saw.   The bottom is what I saw.  The difference was in the graphics setting.  They run on Low, I run on high.  Graphics on Low does not show "glow."  They had applied glow to the object even though they could not see its affect. 

I don't think people intentionally wear face lights that blind other people.  They just aren't aware of the fact of what they really do.

[Ceka Cianci]

plus some products come with them in them and they don't know it either..i used to always have to find them on my dancers when i was HM of a club..they would say they don't have a face light ..then i woudl say..ok you have soemthing in one of the things you bought..let me have a look ..we'll find it..sure enough it would be hair or jewelry or something in a jacket..

i have one i wear..but it's real low..i know the settings so it's not blasting way out there..

 it doesn't overtake the lighting in places..

from what i remember we used to be able to see 6 lights in sl lighting..then they dropped it to two i believe..

so it doesn't take much to kill off lighting if someone has one stronger than the build settings..

and glow..omg ya..some things are blinding..i used to build on low settings..now i just do the prim work and lon lower settings and then go high on texture work to make sure  i'm not giving people snowblindness hehehe

[JeanneAnne]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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A friend asked me to come see something that they were building (an art project).  The top picture is what they saw.   The bottom is what I saw.  The difference was in the graphics setting.  They run on Low, I run on high.  Graphics on Low does not show "glow."  They had applied glow to the object even though they could not see its affect. 

I don't think people intentionally wear face lights that blind other people.  They just aren't aware of the fact of what they really do.

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Thanks Perrie. Those pics are 'illuminating' ~pun intended ..

Yeah .. i never intended to blind anyone .. my facelite looked fine to me .. i appreciate being told when others see things about me that arent right .. physics are another example .. my physics looked fine to me but to others it was ridiculously bouncy .. iv had blingy earrings that looked fine to me too .. but the bling was annoying to others .. how would i know if no1 told me .. iv been told i had 4 feet, too .. when my feet looked just fine to me .. stuff like that .. how are newbies to know this stuff if no1 tells them?

Jeanne

[Jenni Darkwatch]

I'm unsure what the current max # of lights is for no-shadow settings. The problem with facelights is this: Go to a pretty sim, or a lovely concert where the performer has taken great pains to give a great light show. Venice is a good example for a sim that has excellent lighting.

What you'll see is that the viewer renders only the closest n lights (used to be 6 lights I believe). As a result, people with facelights deprive others of the sims settings.

On the other hand, it pretty much depends on what the reason for wearing the facelight is. If it is to look "good" to others, the facelight entirely misses the goal. It's not even in the same field as the goal, let alone the same city. It won't look the same for everyone no matter what, unless you'd dictate viewer settings for everyone else.

If the only goal is to look good to yourself, it's merely rude to wear facelights at most social gatherings. I'd argue that it's in the same league as wearing badly scripted attachments (which is entirely too common as it is).

And that's actually the real reason I replied...  here's some anonymous visitor stats from a mall:
People with 0 scripts (mostly bots): 11.2%
People with 1-50 scripts: 41.6%
People with 51-100 scripts: 17.8%
People with 101-150 scripts: 10.2%
People with 151-200 scripts: 6.7%
People with 201-250 scripts: 4.3%
People with 251-300 scripts: 3.3%
The remainder (about 4.9%) had more than 300 (running) scripts.

The highest script load on a single avatar was 1688 scripts and there were a few people with close to 1000 scripts on them. And that's likely the same people that complain about TP and sim crossing problems...

To give an idea what that means for the people who have those ridiculous attachments: That 1688 script hog would have TPd in, it would have taken at least 12 seconds until the sim had initialized all these scripts. That's under ideal circumstances. In reality it probably took longer. If that person would have crossed over to the next sim (or TPd away) within that time, they'd likely have crashed.

[Ceka Cianci]

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Jenni Darkwatch wrote:

I'm unsure what the current max # of lights is for no-shadow settings. The problem with facelights is this: Go to a pretty sim, or a lovely concert where the performer has taken great pains to give a great light show. Venice is a good example for a sim that has excellent lighting.

What you'll see is that the viewer renders only the closest n lights (used to be 6 lights I believe). As a result, people with facelights deprive others of the sims settings.

On the other hand, it pretty much depends on what the reason for wearing the facelight is. If it is to look "good" to others, the facelight entirely misses the goal. It's not even in the same field as the goal, let alone the same city. It won't look the same for everyone no matter what, unless you'd dictate viewer settings for everyone else.

If the only goal is to look good to yourself, it's merely rude to wear facelights at most social gatherings. I'd argue that it's in the same league as wearing badly scripted attachments (which is entirely too common as it is).

And that's actually the real reason I replied...  here's some anonymous visitor stats from a mall:

People with 0 scripts (mostly bots): 11.2%

People with 1-50 scripts: 41.6%

People with 51-100 scripts: 17.8%

People with 101-150 scripts: 10.2%

People with 151-200 scripts: 6.7%

People with 201-250 scripts: 4.3%

People with 251-300 scripts: 3.3%

The remainder (about 4.9%) had more than 300 (running) scripts.

The highest script load on a single avatar was 1688 scripts and there were a few people with close to 1000 scripts on them. And that's likely the same people that complain about TP and sim crossing problems...

To give an idea what that means for the people who have those ridiculous attachments: That 1688 script hog would have TPd in, it would have taken at least 12 seconds until the sim had initialized all these scripts. That's under ideal circumstances. In reality it probably took longer. If that person would have crossed over to the next sim (or TPd away) within that time, they'd likely have crashed.

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i agree ..mine i wear in my sim  because thats where i take a lot of my pictures..i may forget to take it off when shopping..but when i go out..i take great pains to make sure i have all my huds and extra things off beforehand..i ctrl alt t and see if i forgot anything..my eye light will always be the one i forgot to take off till i see it in red hehehe

it's no fun being the downer..

i learned that in a big way when i was playing with a toy in a club that was in our residential area..i was a regular so they didn't ban me..but i lagged out and hit the wrong button..it was supposed to be a joke that showed up in green chat..i ended up hitting something like hells fury and blasted everyone like a billion meters up LOL

omg i tp'd everyone back and then just went to my sim next door..i felt so bad lol..they asked me to come back ..but still ..

so since then i really take the time to make sure i don't even come close to being the downer  lol

 

[PeterCanessa Oh]

Good figures Jenni, thanks.

Second-hand anecdote from someone at Caledon Oxbridge: the highest script-count they've seen was 3,800-something, from someone who thought they had to 'wear' a folder at a time so had 36 versions of the same hair on, all with 1-script per prim.