Akane Nacht

Oh I'm a lost cause. I used to wash my spouse's army uniforms and travel out to camp to meet him for dinner. And I liked it 😭

Indeed. In my country there are no quotas of this sort, thank goodness. But there is a very active initiative to promote fair hiring. My company is a signatory to it, and we promote it to others. It makes good business sense to hire the best person for the job, whoever that person happens to be. As an aside, men here do earn more in some sectors, as they spend 2 yrs of their young adulthood in mandatory military service and some 30 more in reservist, and this is compensation for lost time in the workforce. I have have not heard of any women clamouring for mandatory service for females. I certainly wouldn't. It's hard work and it has risks even in peacetime. I think things even out pretty well overall.

I don't entirely buy that argument either, but I've not dug deep into it so I can't say for sure. My reservations are based on something quite different. An example: Say you have a couple of candidates. One, a man who meets the criteria and seems easygoing, friendly and willing to learn. Two, a woman who also meets the criteria but seems rigid, argumentative and ambitious. Now say the workplace is an easygoing, TQM style that has a great balance of give and take amongst the staff and a high level of interpersonal trust. A quota may compel the hirer to hire the woman, though it will probably end in disaster and wasted expense, and maybe cause other team members to lose trust and jump ship. See, the devil is in the details. I spent some years on interview panels and some more as a recruiter. There are times I have not recommended even better qualified candidates because their personality was a serious mismatch. When you introduce artificial criteria, you risk ruining the ecosystem.

Not necessarily. It's really hard (I'd say impossible) to have a situation where all aspects are equal between candidates. It also depends on the work culture, the team they'll be working with, the management style.. in SMEs especially this is huge - people have to be a right fit and be able to communicate effectively with the team, and with customers if they are customer-facing. That's why most companies have a probationary period, so both candidate and employer see how they work together. This isn't sex-specific, it's about individual temperament and personality.

My favourite movies and TV series have characters who start out as bitter enemies and eventually become friends. Ever watched Avatar the Last Airbender? when Aang and Zuko finally team up I got teary. Dang those feels! 😭

considering he's wearing a kilt, that's harsh...

Aye. I've seen the word "redpill" a couple times too. I have an inkling what that was aiming at, and it's also unsavory and an unfair lumping of people into a single category. No, I don't want to open a debate on the meaning of that term, we all have internet and can draw our own conclusions. Just, lets stop with the labeling. Pretty please with big mesmerizing kitten eyes.

ps. Labeling each other, especially with an intent to hurt, will not end happily, nor be a very interesting conversation. Just saying.

This thread covered a lot of ground so not sure that's even possible 😄 I believe we have agreed to disagree on certain points, and were not differing much to begin with on others. But life would be boring if we all thought alike, no?

As John Cage would say:

I can tell you how this turns out. In my line of work we see young people in their early 20s, struggling with anxiety, depression and burnout. It's much harder to teach resilience at that age. It's kinda heartbreaking.

Good points. My mom always said, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.. why we want those flies I dunno but lets assume they are desirable. I understand what the others on this thread are saying along the lines of "respect is key". My challenge is: define respect (and conversely, define disrespect), in a way that works on a multicultural scale, or even within variance in a single culture. Your solution is the most workable - be nice to people, approach them with good intent and hope for the best. This is entirely within our individual control. It may still run afoul of cultural norms for someone, so I'd add, forgive and move on when it doesn't work. No point trying to change other people's ways - they will change if or when they want to.

Harassment or assault that is in violation of the law, of course not. No one has said that from what I read. But there is a grey area in terms of what people consider harassment when it is not covered by the law. I've already said my piece on that, so no need to repeat it here. It's hard because.. we can't read people's minds. It is impossible to treat someone in the exact way they want to be treated at any given point of time. Human interaction is always give and take.

Since women haven't reached a consensus on what is a "good" attitude on this topic, it's a little unrealistic to expect men to. 😉

Same in Singapore. Maybe it's all that IKEA furniture we have...

Depends on what "it" is. A date maybe? Yep, afraid we'll have to agree to disagree, but I thank you for your explanation of your reasoning. To me, how we choose to present ourselves via dress is a behaviour, and we know we send a message with it. I, personally, don't give a hoot what names people call me, cos that's on them. Sticks and stones.. As to cultural norms, they can and do change, if it makes sense to do so. I'm not sure taking clothing out of the equation as a mode of communication is workable - nor is a general consensus across the globe on what particular clothing means outside of specific contexts. You may be able to change norms in your neighborhood, but if you log on to SL and meet people from other parts of the world you'll find they have very different ideas.

His point was clear to me, mine was an additional insight, just to muddy the waters more 😀 It's hard to debate the point you raise when violent assault is conflated with propositioning or even flirting (which was what your original post was referencing, as I understood it, as violent assault is impossible in SL). You said "YOU do not get to define who is or is not a "sl*t," or even who looks like one: that is their choice and their determination." Is that really reasonable? I do think such an appearance is "open season" for any sexual advances within the bounds of the law. Unless we curtail human interaction to such an extent that we have to engage our lawyers to say Hi to someone, there are bound to be miscommunications between the sexes. I think Gadget was pointing out (he is free to correct me ofc) that deliberately making the chance of miscommunication worse isn't helpful.

Well, I largely agree with Gadget and I am most assuredly a woman. And I gotta point out here, dress norms are enforced by women too, not because we are trembling in fear for what men might do, but more to do with anxiety about being criticized or shunned by other women. Harsh truth, men often don't even notice what we are wearing, unless it's something outrageous or revealing. ps. In some cultures, dressing provocatively is indeed an "advertisement", and both sexes will see it that way. That's not a risk, that's a communication fail.

Just an aside - there are acceptable dress norms in some countries. It is both polite and prudent to follow them, regardless of your personal philosophy on the subject. SL has dress norms too, imposed by individual sim owners. We all know what happens when we decide we are above the rules. 😛

In my experience, the vast majority of people, if you take the time get to know them and really listen to their perspectives, are not hateful. The few that are tend to have other stuff going on in their lives that skew their perspectives.

we can certainly pwn ourselves (9 cent humour - I got discount)

I would use the term "courtesy", but we are probably referring to the same thing. "Respect" has a couple of distinct meanings.

If this thread has not drifted too wide of the original post, I'll chime in! Having been a roleplayer in SL for many years I, like many others, composed "rules of engagement" with my character. I was never content with them, and always ended up deleting them off my profile because no set of rules could be applied consistently to the various people I met, some of whom I'd impose stricter limits and some had practically none. Heck, sometimes it shifted according to my mood. So now, in roleplay and in SL generally, I wing it. People can approach me however they fancy to do so. Personally, I'd rather risk some unsavory conversations than build walls around myself.

I just say "No thanks, bro. " For some reason that works like a charm..

at Realm of Sanmu, a very pretty fantasy RP sim