Scylla Rhiadra

The point is to provide sympathetic assistance where we can, without simply dismissing the complaints out of hand as some people (as for instance the post I originally quoted) are. Because god knows LL is doing **** all to advise people who are suddenly and unexpectedly seeing a dramatic drop in performance. Most of us are doing that, or trying to. And yeah, some of those we want to help aren't listening, or don't want to hear it. I have little sympathy for that either. But, seriously, simply informing people that their problems are somehow their own fault because they are "resisting progress" or something similar is not helpful. And really pretty obnoxious.

Toothless, I'm not sure how my computer differs from yours, but it's simply counterfactual in my everyday experience that ALM doesn't play in a role in lag. I'm a photographer, and I switch back and forth between different graphics settings a lot, and I'm very well aware, from long and occasionally painful experience, what will slow my computer down. Simply switching on ALM on the old pre-PBR viewers I use (Firestorm, the LL viewer, and Black Dragon) knocks my FPS down, depending upon context, about 20 FPS. That's without shadows or SSAO turned on. ALM is literally the only changed variable. It may not impact on some kinds of GPUs or CPUs, but it's effect on my computer is measurable, significant, and unquestionable.

Yes, Amelia, and if you've read nearly any of my posts on this subject over the past, god what? 8 months?, you'll know that I understand that. As recently as today I conceded that LL had to move forward on this. My objection is to the "Well, I'm alright Jack!" tone of so many of these posts. "Why are you trying to hold back SL's future?" "Well, it works for me! What are you doing wrong?" "You just need to buy a new PC!" "Have you tried [paragraph-long stream of incomprehensible technobabble]? A child could do it!" Can we please stop blaming people who are having problems for the fact that they are having problems?

No, of course not. But I'd expect better from my local governance than to have them mindlessly sneer that it's obviously my unwillingness to move into the future, rather than my straightened financial state, that's the issue.

Don't know, never played! No, of course not. Nor am I expecting LL to 1) hold back on updates because people can't afford new hardware, or 2) provide new GPUs. What I DO expect is something a little less tone-deaf and insensitive to people who can't afford new computers (or GPUs) than the above "you want to stay in the past" post. No, people don't want to "stay in the past." We'd ALL love shiny new computers with the latest NVidia "WowXXX.60 GPU" installed. The brutal (and it can be literally brutal) reality is that there are lots of people surviving pay cheque to pay cheque out there. There's a real "let them eat cake" element to a lot of these kinds of responses.

A friend of mine was complaining about this phenomenon as well. What do you turn off to make that horrible thing happen? BTW, I've just realized a use case for something you were talking about earlier: having a reflection probe associated with a particular item of furniture. Mirrors. If they reflection probe they are using is too large, it will totally distort the perspective within the reflection.

Peeve: Me, I'm an idiot. My mirror was suddenly behaving very badly and weirdly, and I couldn't think why. And then suddenly I remembered: it's getting its reflection from the reflection probe. Which is HUGE, because it's covering the entire platform. And so, of course, it's cramming EVERYTHING into that little tiny surface, and totally distorting the perspective as a result. So this IS a use case for having a separate reflection probe for a single item of furniture. Peeve: That our mirrors function so stupidly. (But yes, probably as well as can be expected)

Will LL also be providing the new GPUs?

Good point. GOD DAMNIT, PAUL!!!!! 😡 That felt surprisingly good! 🙃

NO. There is not. And yes, there should be, and not (as I said when it was first published) the gawdawful wiki page on this. Some of us have been saying just this for literally over half a year.

Sure. Someone who is just unresponsive, or merely wants to rant isn't worth the time. But it's always possible to be polite and civil and restrained!!! Why, for instance, when was the last time I yelled at you? /me smiles brightly

That is sort of what I'm saying -- this shouldn't be seen as, in and of itself, a move made to make the platform more "appealing," but rather one that sets the stage for future developments down the road which might, or which will at least forestall SL from becoming so badly out-of-date that it's no longer viable. At the moment, though, SL does not look better (although god knows it looks more "shiny"!) to a whole lot of people. And that's largely (as I've argued ad nauseam) because they haven't made enough of an effort to mitigate the changes to the lighting system by also updating the EEP library.

Yeah. I'm having a hard time with that too.

No, they shouldn't, and I don't think they do. But the theory behind this is that bringing SL a bit more up-to-date with the state of tech will make content creation easier, future updates and upgrades more possible, etc. Whether or not this update does that, I'm not qualified to say. Yeah, except I don't think people come for the shiny (although it's possible that some who try it out leave because they are unhappy with the look). Anyone arguing that the introduction of PBR is going to assist in bringing new people in are misunderstanding the appeal and point of the platform. And anyone arguing that this update, at least as it's currently being implemented, is helping with retention isn't paying attention to what's being said here or in-world.

This. And yes, this is true as well: The problem being that many people have no idea what EEP even is, yet alone how to adjust it. (And the documentation for it is AWFUL or nonexistent.)

There is a discernible lack of empathy from some of those responding to complaints here, and, equally, a little too much rage posting from some who are unhappy. The problems that this update are causing for some are real. And telling someone who is using an 8 year old laptop that was working just fine until now that they should just man up and buy a new one, while a not unrealistic response, is a bit tone deaf given that someone who is using an 8 year old laptop very likely can't afford a new one. That's a simple reality of some people's RL, and it's pretty insensitive not to take it into account. Equally, some of the tech talk here about processors and heat and so forth is going to go wooooooosh over a lot of people's heads -- as it does over mine, frankly. PBR isn't going to go away. And yes, it's unrealistic to expect that computers, especially cheap ones, will not become obsolescent eventually. But, as Coffee has noted, we've got people here talking (I hope facetiously) about literally giving blood to get together enough money to upgrade. That maybe should be a bit of an indication of the underlying issues? Similarly, simply raging about how arrogant LL is being is pointless. There are LOTS of legitimate reasons to criticize how this has been handled, but ultimately the platform has to move forward or it dies. Some are NOT listening to tips -- and for some, the tips might be unrealistic (I'm sorry, but not in a million years am I ever going to replace my GPU on my own). Maybe a little less yelling from both sides would be good. Whatever your feelings about those who are having issues now, it is NOT helpful to SL if we see a large scale exodus of people who can't grapple with performance or graphics issues. It's in everyone's best interest, for the good of SL, to be a bit patient. Just as it's in everyone's interests, even if you're on a Walmart special, to see the platform upgrade in the interest of future viability and longevity.

If what Luke has said above is true, these sorts of posts have been the way the site does moderation, for now at least. So he's been posting on people's feed(?) about their violations of the platform's ToS? But I've only seen general reminders from him, not targeted comments. Presumably at some point Primfeed will have a more sophisticated (and maybe partially automated) way to respond to violations.

It was lovely seeing you (or Celia!) there, Sandor! Thanks for coming!

You'd be astonished at how stupid I am. (or . . . not?)

Ick. This raises an interesting point relative to galleries. Most curators / gallery owners insist (politely) that one set one's pics on display to "full bright." (They also want the as large as possible, which I am increasingly disliking, because the size of the canvas is as much an element of its experience as the colours used.) I'd actually prefer NOT to use full bright, which I find garish and ugly -- and yes, non-immersive. But the alternative is indeed setting up fairly extensive interior lighting to compensate. I'm increasingly leaning towards that idea.

Hmmm. Or maybe I need to add some interior lighting to the gallery . . .

OMG, are you TRYING to come up with the worst possible solutions ever?

"MODS!!!!!!!!!" Where the hell are the cops when you NEED them???

You mean Cris-crossed? You are wrong. /me folds her arms across her chest defiantly 😜