Vulpinus

Thanks Whirly. I must have just not noticed it before; I don't often bother looking at the attachments.

I don't know if what I am getting is related to this, because I get no error message but... Recently (for at least a week or two) when I click on the attachment in a group notice, I get the message in chat that I have been given the item, but I do not get the item (be it a notecard, texture, whatever). It's just happened again. I had two notices from a group, each with the attachment and I clicked on both, and neither is anywhere in my inventory. I did get the chat messages: A group member named BastChild Lotus gave you L&B@TMD April L&B Swear Ranger Cargo Pants w/AES & Slink. [07:28] A group member named BastChild Lotus gave you L&B@TMD April L&B Swear Ranger Cargo Pants w/AES & Slink. I've just clicked a couple more, and didn't get those either.

Yeah, I see what you mean. When I have time, I'll plan and do some tests. I do know that other people on my ISP get great connections from their 76Mbps FTTC fibre service, but they aren't on SL that I know of. Anyone here on Plusnet? Plusnet actually is owned (now) by BT but fortunately hasn't suffered too badly from that, expect for some aspects of the customer service IMO. I have a /29 IPv4 subnet from them too, included in the cost, so I'm not moving anywhere else.

Thanks Freya. It's not latency that I'm bothered about, and there's nothing wrong with my connection. In fact, it's working great - I just wonder if I could benefit from a higher bandwidth line. I often see it working at its maximum capacity for up to minutes at a time in some places in SL before everything is loaded. I do think the 'frozen to the spot' issue was an issue in the previous version of FS because it didn't happen before that (that I noticed) or since the latest upgrade. Like it was prioritising model/texture data or processing at the expense of movement, or something like that. Like you say, it depends on SL's asset servers' bandwidth to the internet, and how many people are generelly using that. That's what I'm trying to find out, and if I could get much more than I already do from them. The five minutes I mentioned, for instance, equates to 600MB+ of data and it took that five minutes before everything I could see in front of me had rendered fully. That was a place full of posh mesh stuff and quite a few mesh avatars in fancy clothing etc. No doubt most of them using full-size textures and lots of specular and normal maps too. That's only about 70 textured faces if they all use everything, not even including mesh data. ETA: I'm in the UK and my connection isn't throttled or limited in any way below the line speed. Well, it actually does have a traffic throttle (more a QOS system) but it's actually a beneficial one that only acts to prioritise traffic classes for my connection if I'm at full bandwidth. For instance, if I'm pulling down something from nntp at 20Mbps, and start watching a streaming movie at the same time, the movie traffic would get prioritised over the nntp, which is exactly what I would want. It doesn't cap my bandwidth or anything like that. (I know, it's a rare thing to actually have a useful service like that from an ISP). In fact, SL traffic gets prioritised over things like nntp and torrent traffic too so it works really well.

I mean, what sort of maximum bandwidth use do people generally see from SL's servers? I have a good 20Mbps (1Mbps up) copper connection; I live so close to the exchange that I can, and often do, spit at it. More and more often recently I see it being saturated when I TP somewhere new as FS loads all the fancy mesh and textures. I thought when I got 20Mbps that I would never need anything faster, and except for SL I still don't. Yesterday I went to a popular shop and it took a full five minutes before the bandwidth use dropped below full. It ramped back up as soon as I walked a few paces. Until the latest version of FS I would often be frozen to the spot while this happened, at least I can now move around again. I guess something was fixed about that. So, if I upgraded to fibre (say 76Mbps) would I actually see much benefit from SL's servers? Or, would I likely not see a much faster flow of data from them that I already get? I get a really good deal on my current connection so upgrading would cost me three times more. It's only worth it if it would make a big difference.

Thanks for the confirmation; at least I know I'm not losing the plot myself. I did start noticing this specific aspect of thrashing around the time that I also read about interest list improvements (a couple of FS versions ago) but I took some time out of SL around then too, so can't definitely link to a specific point in time.

I've been seeing this now for months, and just seen it again today so obviously that I thought it time to mention it... I occasionally get texture thrashing: continual blurring and re-sharpening of textures, that are right in front of me even when I'm just standing still looking at them. This nearly always seems to happen when I have just telepoprted into a place, which is often back to my home parcel but it is not limited to there. The odd thing is that when it happens, I have found that doing a quick double-click-on-the-ground TP stops the texture thrashing immediately. I mean just TP'ing a few meters, not out of the region or anything like that. This has been going on repeatedly for months, with the quick TP fix working (I think) every time. Before that I was TP'ing out of the region or just relogging to stop the thrashing. Today, I had only been logged in for twenty minutes. I logged in, visited a shop that has a few of those lucky chairs, and TP'd back home again. Then I went back to the store and the texture thrashing started. I was looking at all four chairs, and every texture on them was flickering in and out like crazy. A quick double-click TP and it stopped. To me it seems like there is an issue with Firestorm (maybe LL viewer too - I don't use it) that causes this thrashing when TP'ing somewhere new. There is clearly a link between the thrashing and TP'ing; it has happened too often not to be. This has happened with the previous, and the very latest version of FS, my OS has been reinstalled clean (and latest drivers put on) in the middle of it, and everything else seems to work fine. Anyone got any thoughts on this? My FS/About: Firestorm 4.7.7 (48706) Mar 5 2016 00:13:45 (Firestorm-Releasex64) with OpenSimulator support Release Notes CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-2600K CPU @ 3.40GHz (3392.32 MHz) Memory: 16368 MB OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 SP1 64-bit (Build 7601) Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 970/PCIe/SSE2 Windows Graphics Driver Version: 10.18.0013.6143 OpenGL Version: 4.5.0 NVIDIA 361.43 RestrainedLove API: RLV v2.8.0 / RLVa v1.4.10a libcurl Version: libcurl/7.38.0 OpenSSL/1.0.1i zlib/1.2.8 J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.7.1 Audio Driver Version: FMOD Ex 4.44.61 LLCEFLib/CEF Version: 1.5.3.FS6-(CEF-WIN-3.2526.1366.g8617e7c-32) (Chrome 47.0.2526.80) Voice Server Version: Not Connected Settings mode: Viewer 3 Viewer Skin: StarLight (Mono Teal) Font Used: Deja Vu (96 dpi) Font Size Adjustment: 0 pt UI Scaling: 1 Draw distance: 168 m Bandwidth: 3000 kbit/s LOD factor: 4 Render quality: High-Ultra (6/7) Advanced Lighting Model: Yes Texture memory: 1024 MB (1) VFS (cache) creation time (UTC): 2016-4-1T21:48:50 Built with MSVC version 1800 P.s. the draw distance above is higher than I usually have, which is usually 120m. I've fiddled with the settings in the past to try and solve the thrashing but never seen any difference (not at usable settings, anyway)

Do you have Advanced Lighting model turned on in your veiwer's graphics preferences? If not, normal and specular maps do nothing. On the LL viewer, it might be called "Bump mapping and shiny" with a tickbox. The PC I'm on right now only has Firestorm so I can't check exactly what it says, but I bet that's your issue.

Whirly, I've been seeing this for a few days too. You asked a question on the JIRA regarding folders appearing in the Lost&Found that should not be there - I got loads of them there today after having to clear my cache again to regain last night's Aditi work. This needs a fix ASAP - I log into each grid several times a day!

In the words of Sgt. Pinback: "When I brought you on this ship, I thought you were cute." ...sounds like the result of a typical drunken night out anywhere...

Rhonda Huntress wrote: George Cloony's finest work was the sequel. ... you got me on that one. Unless you're referring to a rather fruity return, in which case, no bonus points yet.

Well, now you know. 70+ physical objects all colliding with each other like that can bring a sim to its knees easily. Hence you probably being thought of as a griefer.

This is the sort of beachball you have to worry about, even just one of them:  Bonus points for knowing the movie... .

The posts above mine have given excellent examples of the potential for script use (I do a lot of RLV-enabled stuff) and pointed out that making something no-mod does not stop the rippers. All it does it limit what legitimate customers can do. That seems the same with many RL laws, I've noticed. The don't stop the criminals doing what they do, they only limit law-abiding citizens. You said: "What kind of script could you possibly put in a piece of clothing that is so important that you would boycott a designer for not letting you do it?" It's not a case of boycotting a designer for that one limitation, and that is not what I said. It's a case of boycotting a designer who believes that I don't deserve to have the ability to modify what I have paid for. Again as already mentioned above, many people are more capable of doing sensible modifications that you seem to think. Of course you are free to sell your stuff how you like; that freedom is something I would defend myself even if I disagree with how you choose to use it and thereby limit the freedom of expression of others. If it was just the unreasonable license terms of your raw materials causing the issue, I would suggest talking to or changing your suppliers, but it clearly isn't. Personally, it boils down to two things: 1. I enjoy modding stuff, and have seen no harm done to any designer from such activity. I will not support someone (usually) who refuses to allow me to do this. 2. I live by "what is not by necessity banned, is allowed" rather than "what is not by necessity required, is banned". That is deeply embedded in me! (and causes me no end of annoyance at our ridiculously over-controlling nanny-state government, but that's another matter) I'll carry on voting with my L$ :-)

yeah, the pole on the left is the right one, and the pole on the right should be left out because it's broken. :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:

Another vote here for mod permissions, and I agree with every word Qie said! I make and sell a little, soon to be selling more mesh stuff, and everything I sell is copy/mod apart from scripts. I very rarely will buy anything that is not mod/copy permissions. I love to customise what I buy and nearly always it can be 'improved' (at least in my eyes) to fit in with my decor, increase functionality, or whatever. It's part of the fun in SL. My favourite (and only) mesh body is fully mod and that is great.The creator made a good decision (as with his previous products) to make it so and it has spawned a good amount of third-party products, including my own scripts that sell well. All of this increases sales of the creator's product. As to clothes, I got so sick of everything being no-mod that I almost refuse to buy finished clothes (not entirely though - there are some designers who are so good I break my rule). Instead, I bought some of the full-perm kits and make my own clothes. Maybe not as good as some I could buy, and would, if they were mod, but at the same time a lot better than many out there. Changing tints slightly, or adding/removing other effects as mentioned in the thread is a great way of customising an outfit. If a seller wants me to buy more of their work, they can make more significantly different things I want to buy (and maybe still tweak). If the creator is good enough, no amount of mod-ability by me would stop me buying more from them. Those I mentioned above that I break my rules for are an example. If the products were mod, I would still buy everything I have, and maybe even more. Certainly not fewer! Don't forget that other objects can be attached even to rigged/fitted mesh. For instance, linking a buttonhole to a jacket, or linking all your fitted mesh together into one outfit. It works well (depending on the attachment points used for the clothing), if the clothes are mod. Of course you can just wear the individual items but making a single wearable object is so convenient and with fitted mesh it works really well because each item snaps to the place it should be when attached. Scripting? Yeah... Qie's covered that one but as another scripter (and soon-to-be mesh head too) I have often wanted to script an item or a piece of clothing to enhance it (or me) in some way. --- The bottom line: I detest the concept of 'you've only bought a licence to use my product only the way I want you to' when it comes to most things in SL. Whatever is behind that, I have yet to hear what I consider an acceptable reason for it. (no offence meant to those who disagree - I just have strong views on this) To answer two points against mod perms: If the reason is that if someone could make a small adjustment to your clothing and that means they don't buy another item from you, then frankly if that's how you sell items (minor change=another full sale item) then I won't be buying anything from you at all. A good designer should be able to come out with enough significantly different and desirable designs that I want to keep buying them, and maybe still re-tinting or scripting them. Then again, if the reason is that you think someone might be steal another of your textures and apply to the one purchase they made (and maybe not even from you) ... get real, and stop treating your customers like criminals-in-waiting. It's ******* insulting! Yes, it's easy to do thanks to SL's lack of any real asset protection, but that's not the point. On the forums I am on it's very obvious from many discussions I see (from consumers of these products) that the vast majority of people don't even have a clue how to; I mean they just aren't that knowledgeable in how things work and aren't interested. They just want to buy stuff. Those that would do that it, will find ways to do such things anyway. Most people are *not* thieves and don't deserve to be assumed to be! Punished and restricting the freedoms of the majority of decent people due to fears of the misbehaviour of a few miscreants is absolutely despicable. [/soapbox]

ChinRey wrote: Still it's just as well to post a reminder about it here every now and then. Lots of people aren't aware of it. Certainly is - thank you! I keep a folder full of useful bits like this, with helpful file names, when I come across them. Occasionally I even remember to look in the folder :smileylol:

I do indeed find that interesting, thank you! I've saved the video to my notes folder and I'll watch it again later on when I can concentrate properly on it.

Pamela, I just wanted to say that yours are among the builds that I enjoy looking around taking inspiration from. In terms of quality I mean, not plagiarism.

Interesting thread, thanks. I've read it and saved it to my 'useful bits' folder. That answers what I'm experiencing. I'm doing test uploads now to optimise LI (and to an extent convenience) based on what I join and what I don't, so the problem has cropped up at the relevent time, at least. I'll most likely do what you say and join to the above and/or below walls to avoid the issue, Funny how simple something can look at first, only to find something that completely blows that comfortable feeling out of the water. Oh well, I guess life would be boring if things just worked.

Edit: I've just had chance to get back to my good PC and try more things - analysing the physics on the floor I talk about below, and uploading it seperately, makes it behave as I expected it to, but it makes the rest of the house completely broken physics-wise when I upload it all (about 50 parts) as one linkset. I'm working on a house and it's going well, including most of the triangle based physics. I have two problems though that seem odd and I'm after advice please... The ceiling and next floor mesh, and just one doorway get their triangle physics filled in exactly the same as if it is set to convex hull when uploaded to SL. Concentrating on the ground-floor ceiling/first-floor floor, I have a stairway cutout that gets filled in so I can't get up the stairs, and the L-shape gets filled in too. The physics is the same size and shape as the mesh, scaled to 1, and has two layers of triangles: the lower layer (for the ceiling) has normals point down and the upper (for the floor above it) with the normals pointing up. I did not analyse the physics when uploading. I've tried a few adjustments to the triangles but get exactly the same result when uploaded: The physics shape when set to prim behaves exactly like the convex hull physics shape, even though the Physics Shape view shows it how I have made it. I can stand on the staircase cutout (and that filled-in L-corner) when it's set to prim just the same as if it's Convex Hull, and can't walk up the stairs. Pictures will show what I mean: Physics mesh:  SL Upload:  Physics View as Convex Hull:  Physics View as Prim - the 'gaps' are still filled in even though they do not show as such, and the physics behaves exactly as the above convex hull: 

Thanks for youre reply Aquila, and sorry for my late one (RL is a pain at times). Yes, you certainly understand correctly what I am trying to do, and I think I've mostly got the hang of it the way you've said. I was confused by having to have all the layers visible at first in order to duplicate the parented set. Other than that I'm still on the learning curve with Blender's interface. I've discovered I can select and do things to objects in the Outliner view. That's coming in handy! I wonder if I can group and parent a set of objects at the same time, so I can take advantage of the Group tab in Append to pull in the whole, parented set. I don't even have a Group tab but possibly that's because I didn't make any groups in that file. I'll investigate that later, I have bigger problems right now to sort out. Right, next thread...

Whatever I read at the time said 65,000-70,000, but I don't remember where so I can't prove it. Perhaps I've got it out of perspective saying 'maximum recommended'; it's so long ago that I read it that I really don't recall the exact context. I do know that the watch was 75,000 and my flexi-alpha-tori hair was outrageous compared to an almost as good mesh version that was less than 10% of the RC.

Glad you got it sorted bebejee. Yeah, the LI of some litle things like that is surprising, as is the rendering cost. Not long ago (when I learned about rendering cost) I went through my outfits and, amongst others, discarded a watch, pendant and several hair pieces each of which was higher render cost, alone, than the total recommended maximum render cost for the whole, dressed avatar! Another thing I occasionally use for finding things is World/Show More/Beacons. It only picks up specific properties, like physical or sound sources, but that can be quite handy at times. I used it once in a busy place to find the source of a birdsong I particularly liked, so I could buy it myself. ... Qie, that makes sense, thank you. I guessed it was something like that and I certainly am happy to have better overall efficiency at the minor inconvenience to area search.

I'm finding Area Search less useful recently (in Firestorm). Maybe something changed but it used to find everything within its parameters within range, but now objects often seem to have to be 'in view' before it picks them up. An example: I lost a free-roaming rat, and area search did not list it even though it turned out to be within about 20m of me. (yes, I set the filters correctly for physical objects) I used Build/Pathfinding/Linksets which picked it up from the name immediately. Once I actually saw it, Area Search suddenly listed it. So, if Area Search doesn't help, Build/Pathfinding/Linksets might. It helps to know part of the name or description (got a copy in your inventory to get that from I guess) for the search. Oh yeah, and Derez is quite helpful too. Just TP to a different region and back again to un-derez things. (at worst case, relog. I've occasionally had things not un-derez by TP'ing). The derez/blacklist file is easy to clear if needed; it's just a file in Firestorms folders that can be deleted to clear the blacklist. That will of course remove everything you've ever blacklisted. It's called "asset_blacklist.xml" and lives in the avatar profile folder.