Drayke Newall

The thing is it has happened before. LL have lost cases involving who owns virtual land or not and additionally have also lost as far as virtual goods ownership with the judge specifically ruling "Second life users own copyrights in virtual land and items that they purchase or create". So the precedent is there, despite what many other users lawyers state.

I must have been the only one from those early years that never wanted a pre-selected last name and would have much preferred none at all and just the first name. So whilst I don't see personally the desire for a last name change @wesleytron and you stating that you don't view resident as a last name does bring up an interesting question. Will the last name Resident be selectable (on an all the time basis) should one want to have that last name or wish (other than in scripts like @Alyona Su stated) to appear as one (who is post 2009 resident) does now of only the first name in profiles etc?

Thought as much and saw you corrected it.

As far as the first comment, technically no, but getting no-where in this thread so cant be bothered re-explaining. Correct, you cant copyright an idea, but you can copyright the physical manifestation of that idea. When it comes to plans, or architectural designs it is different as they are not idea's but considered a work and form a completely separate section of copyright law even if I draw the plan at a reasonable quality on a paper napkin. But hey what do I know... Why would I file a lawsuit? I didn't start the thread.

Always is however, this clause I quoted only exists in American Law well at least as far as here in Australia goes. I beg to differ. What if that design was based of a project he did in RL, uploaded it to SL to showcase to a RL client and then deleted it but used premade items within second life from the marketplace to save time. But in that time someone came in took pictures and then created it for profit in SL. You seem to think that a RL business in the real world doesn't use second life and if what you said is true even with the example I gave, then LL need to clarify this as it will effect RL business practices. You don't know all the facts, simply that the OP made a design and used premade items to reflect it. This is why I generalised and you seem to not grasp that. Incorrect. Plain and simply. The ToS does not remove copyright from the original owner nor does it overwrite laws of other countries in relation to copyright. That would imply a company in Australia, Asia or the EU would have to file for copyright in the USA to submit a DCMA to LL for removal of something from the marketplace that is copyrighted in another country. In America I would have agreed though the post that Erwin Solo posted regarding copyright clarifies and states otherwise "Copyright is automatically granted to the author of an original work (that otherwise meets the basic copyright requirements, discussed above). Registration is not necessary." That said there is no response from the creator as to whether that was a design made outside of second life for another purpose to which he uploaded to second life. If this is the case he owns copyright plain and simply.

Firstly most of my response was in relation to what Mollymews posted (that's why I quoted the post.) as the post was talking about RL architecture areas. My response to the Op was after the fancy orange box. Secondly, I know you have to file for copyright in America and I said that in my post. That said, if I design something from another country and upload it to SL I would still keep that copyright if that country does not need copyright to be filed such as in Australia. Why Americans think that their law is absolute everywhere is beyond me. I would also be VERY surprised if an urban planner or a landscape architect isn't allowed to copyright their design even in America just because it uses other buildings like a bus shelter or park bench. That would be the equivalent of saying an architect cant copyright a design because he designed a house out of a shipping container. If that is the case, glad I'm an architect and run my business in Australia. That all said I also know this is Second Life and such things are different, but a design can be copyrighted and that doesn't change even in second life. For instance if I showcased my design in SL as a 3D model for my RL business clients to walk around in and someone copied it, you bet your rear end I will claim a DCMA. As far as it being around in SL prior, I know it has and mentioned that in my post hence why I also said he has to prove it. With regards to malls, you are missing the point as to what design intent is and is why I also stated it is hard to determine. Design intent for instance isn't a mall of a courtyard surrounded by stores, that is a plan. Design intent is why it is done a certain way and this is how you prove your design is unique compared to others. Exactly the same way a BMX bike could be argued design intent wise over say a mountain bike. One design intent being hill climbing etc. and the other sports and tricks. Never said they would or could. I said in RL it would be that. I also said I didn't know what Linden Lab copyright policies were in relation to design. As to whether you can build a design yourself based on something in SL sure you can, but once you make profit from it as a business that is different and that includes commission's. Based on what your saying I could copy insilico exactly, same buildings etc. and get away with it. Interesting but I doubt you would as they use that to generate business and income. I know that, however he asked whether anything could be done with copying a design and I answered based on my professional RL experience and even placed clauses into my response as to issues he may have such as proving provenance. He also provided no information regarding whether he lives in the USA or even whether he sells it or the other person does. I provided an accurate answer as to what he asked based on what info he gave and generalised e.g showing differences in American and Australian law to compensate for this. As I said, design and the ins and outs of its related copyright issues is my business and profession in RL. I can only speak as far as that goes in relation to design irrespective of whether it is a 3D model (which I also do professionally for my designs) or a blueprint. When I look at those two 'designs' professionally (with many years experience) I see them as a direct copy of the design. Whether you do or not is your opinion just as the former is mine, however without trying to be arrogant, if it isn't your profession in RL you would have to come up with a lot more of "you cant copyright design or there are differences between the 2 or this is SL its different".

I haven't looked into American copyright law regarding what would be termed design etc, however if it is anything like Australian copyright law as far as architecture goes (which it more than likely is apart from the fact that in Australia copyright exists the moment it is on paper i.e. you don't have to copyright design or ideas like you do in America), which in this case it could be classed, then you are only slightly correct. Design elements cannot be copyrighted as the element of a design is subjective. You say that a door is an element (yes it is) and if the shape is different it can be copyrighted, perhaps, however as an architect and in copyright law I would call design elements things like material, façade, green wall, roof garden, portico etc. and the door textures and shaped like you suggest simply a style otherwise the inventers family of a rectangular door would be the richest person in the world by now. I think you would be hard pressed to find someone copyrighting a door style and claiming it successfully. Its construction and parts maybe, but not the style or door as a whole. As far as the layout or plan of a building goes, you are technically right and technically wrong. When someone sues for copyright on the design of the building it is the design intent that is argued not the floor plan as such and this can be very hard to determine. If it was the floor plan itself then anyone could argue that a typical school layout with a corridor in between classrooms on either side and a pair of doors at either end of the corridor is copyright and school architects would be sued left right and centre. Similarly a house with living areas on the left and bedrooms and wet areas on the right would also start to put stress on the legal system with all the copyright claims it would receive. Whilst not a lawyer or from America (so take this with a grain of salt) as an architect, I would say (respectfully) that everyone that posted in this thread is wrong and that the "fake" image is indeed a copy of the original design if you can prove that you were the original designer from the beginning of second life as I too have seen this build design everywhere. @Kardargo Adamczyk Looking at solely design intent and as an architect (keeping in mind I don't really know what the original designers intent was) the fake copy infringes on the design intent that being a stage set on water accessed by 3 bridges, whereby the people are funneled into the stage via a large plaza by use of storeyed buildings framed by the same. The "fake", whilst yes, slightly different (style such as Victorian being a non-issue here) copied the intent, by use of a stage surrounded by water, accessed by 3 bridges in identical positioning and also includes an identical, in nature, plaza and buildings as a frame to the plaza. It even copies the triangular floor at the ends of the bridge as well as stage positioning, rear columns etc. Also keep in mind that this is a site design and therefore building style (like Victorian) etc. are irrelevant. That's said, I have no idea how Linden Lab's copyright infringement is stated in relation to design (and you will need to prove that no one before you has done similar), but almost 98% sure in RL, Mr. Fake builder would be ordered to rip down his building or be out of pocket by a lot of money. That is to say there is no such thing as the old "if you change it by 10% it voids copyright". Hope this helps and good luck.

I think this is hilarious and haven't scrolled that far in the forums for a while so missed it. Frustrating I'm sure for merchants like you Tari, but an absolute hilarious failure on Linden Lab's behalf. This quote from Reed Linden really shows their ineptitude of the whole trademark law completely to the point that it is embarrassing and will be concentrating my response here on it. Bolding emphasis mine. Firstly, you can't copyright a word or phrase and the suggestion of such a thing is laughable and puts into question their credibility. I hope this was simply a slip up in their post. Secondly the whole trademark response is equally laughable and shows just how sub par the Lab has gone this time. If they are to continue down the avenue of banning trademarked names within listings or offensive words because they are in a different language etc., then there wont be any words to use in marketplace listings. Touching on the trademark issue. Trademarks are not based solely on the word itself and any argument that they are all inclusive and therefore must be added to a filter to remove them from products is ridiculous. For example, what is going to happen when they add Apple to the list of banned words. The word Apple is listed as a trademarked name as is aqua, aperture, bonjour, carbon, Chicago, Cocoa, Finder, Geneva, the list goes on and all trademarked by Apple (yes city names too just like I posted). Furthermore trademarks as mentioned can be on a per country basis. For example if the person in Australia who owned Burger King (trademark in Australia has lapsed though now, but using it as an example) uploaded a burger shop and has the words Burger King on it are they then liable for the listing to be taken down despite Burger King being trademarked by a different company in Australia, which is the reason why America's Burger King is called Hungry Jacks in Australia? How do they determine who owns what trademark. Is it based on "LL is an American company therefore American trademark law prevails"? What happens when they move everything to AWS and the item is stored on an Australian based server? I mean, heaven help all those people that list 'Computer' as part of their listing, as the word is trademarked in Australia to a clothing company and has been since 1987 https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/trademarks/search/view/460305/details. Trademarks are ALWAYS in relation to their own category not the word by itself (images, logo's etc. being an entirely different ballgame). If Linden Lab's new tools take into consideration both word and category then fine but otherwise, they really need to stop with this nonsense or pathetic excuses to portray that their filtering is correct. As to other words. One of the threads you posted apparently talks about the world "Loli" being banned or something or rather in marketplace listings. If this is the case, does that mean as an Australian my (if I had any one as such) marketplace listing of "Lollies" would also be removed despite Lollies in Australia meaning a sweet like a lollipop and it being a close variation of the plural of Loli?. I think there comes a time when a company goes to far with filtering and by the looks of it Linden Lab can be added to that list. If they want to ban a trademarked word, then they should just ban that word and that word only not all possible variations and base it on how trademarks are truly identified. I also know that from other posts you have made in those threads Tori, that you know basically what I have posted above but seems like people in here needed the above explanation as well as hopefully to bring it to LL attention. To be honest if they don't change their filtering, I'm of a mind to give that clothing company in Australia a phone call and try and get all computers banned off of marketplace just in spite.

When youtube/Google's response to people asking the question of how do they know if their content is kid's friendly and wont incur a fine is "Consult your lawyer" I would say it deserves a little fearmongering. 😉

The problem comes as to how LL intend to filter them out. For years they only added category sections or tick boxes and these not only frustrate the merchant who has to put them into their own category but it also frustrates the buyer who has to go searching through a growing category list just to filter out what they want. Additionally if something is miscategorised by mistake then it means those merchants cant get the items they want or if the item can come under multiple categories it forces a lot of merchants to place items under multiple categories. The other method to filter out results is using the Boolean operators (e.g. house NOT gacha). This was a much needed addition however Linden Lab in all their wisdom limited it to product titles and therefore the filtering is easily bypassed by not including the word gacha in the title but instead in the description. If LL were smart they would make the Boolean operators to encompass both the product title as well as the description and keywords and it will resolve a lot of the issues. That said, if they allowed the Boolean operators to work in the descriptions as well then people would bypass this by not adding the word gacha into the title or description and just use an image which is impossible to use filter operations on. LL will forever be chasing their tail when it comes to the marketplace and incorrect listings as no matter what they introduce there is always a bypass and they can only go so far with it. The only way LL can solve this issue is to moderate the marketplace and remove listings if they are found to be not listed correctly forcing a reupload and additional listing fees by the merchant (a fine so to speak).

Thanks, certainly will look into selling it and take the suggestions into account. At the moment trying to make it a little better and less LI if we can. Will still probably look flat on top as to get clumps added in at various heights in adds to the triangle count and therefore the LI which is probably why a lot of mesh grass is sparse. As to frost covered, could be done with texturing but we are looking at adding an additional 2 texture faces to the grass making it 4. This should get the result like the pic below (the below example has the green grass as an alpha blend with the white as alpha mask). Not sure if its what your looking at though for frost covered (think the white could have a little hint of green in it) and the image below is the 2 texture face mesh with a duplicate over the top so 5 LI all together (when linked) for 20x20m. It is possible though I agree looks better with some ground texture here and there. The grass that I and my friend made was more for a base grass field whereby we added clumps of higher grass here and there to get the desired effect as we couldn't change the ground texture below so used this mesh base grass as a mask. This is also why the texture we use is more spikey (right is more fluffy texture). Pic below has a white prim below it and is barely noticeable and only visible at a direct top view. It is the same as the snow one above at 5LI with the yellow grass alpha blended and green masked.

Sent to you inworld via IM (hopefully was you haha). As to Chic Aeon's post about triangle count details etc. Details for the grass in the pic is below: Faces: 2 Vertices: 1,656 Triangles: 828 Complex.: 673 Textures: 1 TMem: 2,048 KB VRAM: 2,048 KB

Yeah, that's the issue with a lot of the grass thats mesh. The denser you go the more LI it is and also usually requires multiple mesh grass sections combined to make it look better. I should really get around to putting the grass a friend and I made for our sim years ago up for sale. Just never thought that people would want it as we thought it was pretty basic, bad texturing and to flat looking. Looks like the below image and has a LI of 1@5-10m, 3@20m and 11@40m. Would need to tweak the texture repeats at the higher levels though. Pic shown is 20x20m @3LI (2.7LI to be exact). Height is 1m and we just used to drag it into the ground so that you got some variation in height every now and then.

LI is going to depend on what size you want. Also most grass I see mesh wise still uses the old fashioned sculpt manner to generate including using alpha blending.

With their older prim limit maybe, but even back then I know many a sim owner that offered RP sims, hangout sims etc. that all would still be in second life with their sims if they had access to the homestead without the need of a full region. We also all know that mainland is generally a dead loss as far as subscription goes. Whilst yes people do use mainland as part of the subscription, the support needed in terms of LL would be far higher than a top tier homestead premium plan as you don't have those pesky neighbours, builds, etc. and any griefer you can deal with yourself directly through the region setting ban lists instead of LL dealing with AR's. Only a roll-back service would be needed by LL support and rarely at that. Additionally with LL land auctions being generally defunct, mainland pricing is now higher in some cases than the setup fee of a homestead for less land. I think also if they had made the change to homesteads being available without a full region it would have also potentially meant a greater uptake of the old now not available openspace regions, but that's a different topic.

Hmm, depends on whether it was before or after receiving one of those spam emails I keep getting about someone recording me via my webcam (which I don't own) and want to ransom bitcoin from me for the recording.

That popularity amongst those communities is why I mentioned it in this thread and having something as a separate yet linked instance to the main grid that is small enough for an on the go system/use. Without those demographics being showcased SL or a form of SL it hinders the growth of SL as the years go by due to it really only being the older generation that comes here. SL is more like a meme to the younger generations now thought of as a xxx game or something where weird people hang out which is not the stereotype SL needs if it wants to garner newer users. Not to mention the learning curve. I also think a lot of people here forget that the teen grid existed in parallel with the main 'adult grid' and it would be interesting to wonder what the subscriber base of the teen grid would be if it was updated to a separate mobile experience rather than removed completely. It was a great way for teens to get into the SL mentality in an effort to 'graduate' to the main grid, however when that grid was removed articles in game or teen blogs etc. became more and more about the Adult nature of SL rather than how cool it is to play it as a teen. That said, with the requirement of having to use a 3rd party program to mesh due to LL not updating their prim in world building system to mesh ( a mistake), the chances of any form of interest like it had for teens or newer generations is nil - that was its defining difference as a virtual world, building in it. It is also why a new SL should have been made years ago with a better engine as well as a more common script language. For example simple building controls can be made to work very efficiently on a mobile https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tdcp.threedc and by adding these for a mobile experience it would also improve the SL UI as well into a more user friendly one without a steep learning curve. As far as other virtual worlds go, Avakin Life is the big one that has the most similarities to SL, most popular, etc. There are others however out there that offer a more niche or simpler virtual worlds (obviously none offering custom texture etc like SL) but still very popular. e.g. Club Cooee, Woozworld, IMVU (of course), Habbo etc. It comes down to how one would define a virtual world I suppose as some seem to think SL is a virtual world and Habbo isn't even though the same principles of a virtual world are there just done differently.

Because Australian desserts clearly have been under represented: More pictures of varieties here https://inspirationseek.com/pavlova/

ATI cards are awesome! 😈

Exactly and my posts above regarding the other virtual world on android avakinlife I gave as an example was hounded on yet Fortnite of all things did what SL is known for streamed across more device types than even SL is on. Also note the similarities between Second life and what they did. In world band playing through a virtual world (just as second life does) running the event across simultaneous instanced performances of less than 100 people each (SL regions are at least this amount) and perform generally the same way. Custom stage and virtual lighting (all possible in SL). They even motion captioned the DJ and band for the movements (all possible in SL). Sure people are going to come in and say but that's all pre made stuff and not user created SL wont work on mobile, lag blah blah blah. True it isn't user generated, but this is 2019 where 5g can have a theoretical download speed of 1/2GB/s with many users, a max speed at 2.6GB/s or 1TB/s as tested in lab conditions in the UK recently. It only comes down to the software of which the SL viewer is antiquated and the lack of LL response to putting hard stops on uploading unoptimized content.

Its getting to be a little to late for LL to act on things though. With their disastrous Sansar release of something no one wanted and their slow move to anything VR (i.e. SL2 that everyone wanted) the effort they are showing such as this new premium membership tier seems to be a drastic last ditch or life boat. I will post this as an example as to why Linden Lab need a fire set under them. Epic Games CEO has already hinted at wanting to create a virtual world and with their engine behind them (the most realistic graphics engine currently and run on the latest scripting system not a made up and never updated scripting system) and their userbase, if they do create one they will wipe the floor with LL. Especially if they manage to create it anywhere near what was seen in the movie Ready Player One, which with their game store now released is possible. In February they did this in Fortnite https://www.roadtovr.com/fornite-virtual-concert-potent-glimpse-of-virtual-reality-future/ , broke a RL world record, boosted a band up in the RL music charts as well as showcased the future of VR and VW's all within a free2play game that isn't either. Also notice the lack of SL, Sansar or Linden Lab mentioned anywhere in the article. I cant recall SL having such an effect in the RL space since the 2006 Hype.

No it isn't or will it be on phone as you need to download 5-10 gig of data for each experience to load. It is already DoA as it is still in early alpha stage with years to go to release. The graphics themselves are subpar even now so what they would look like compared to the opposition when it is released one can only imagine.

Of course you don't play real life you live it. You do however 'Role Play' a second life living the life of your avatar therefore you are a player and the fact that you are a resident defines that you Role Play it. Anything you say otherwise is most certainly not fact or based on any evidence whatsoever. You also do realise that all MMO stands for is Massive Multiplayer online. The very definition of what is online comes after MMO. So you can have MMOFPS, MMORPG, MMOVW etc. A Sandbox MMO doesn't necessarily have to have a point or goal to it either. Social activity such as SL is also classed as a MMO and is known as MMOSG (Massive Multiplayer Online Social Game) something that is new terminology and never existed when SL was the only one of its kind but does now. As to whether SL has a given goal (which you and others identify as the definition of a game) that is debateable. After all, one could 'play' SL with the goal of making money, or building, or indeed finding a new friend. Just as I can play WoW as only a PvP player or RP wanting the social or Role Play aspect of it and not any Bethesda created content, reward or gaol. Additionally you describe Second life as a Virtual world and yet Philip Rosedale made SL with the goal as a social experiment and has defined SL in 2006 interviews as a platform. I.E. the same as something where you play games on. This is the true definition of second life, not a virtual world or a game as such but a place where people make their own experiences and games and uses the Second Life "platform" to showcase them. Funnily enough exactly what Sansar was intended to be which by all accounts would mean Sansar was SL2 just done differently 😱.

No, do you know how the cloud works and how instanced zones work? I said venues submit those things, you know, high demand massive shops or clubs etc which are huge download demands when downloading in large spaces. Since when is a house a venue lmao. I even stated the house zone could be instanced. As far as Bellissera goes why do you think LL repeat the style and textures of homes in the area and don't care about smaller objects within the house. I'll give you a clue, its the same reason why I said venues submit their textures.. Plus its an EXAMPLE I gave. In other words not everything is stated or thought out. Do you seriously think a CEO of a company brings to a meeting the entire system already worked out. No, he says I want this and that and think it could work like this and leaves the details to be thought out later of what can and cant be done. I have never understood why so many SL residents are hell bent on a mobile client. Its as if they think it will destroy SL and not improve it.

That wasn't aimed at you, was just more a generalisation at the end of my post for Adam & Co. I'm not comparing the two though. Of course they are entirely different beasts all with the own uniqueness. That said, just because they are different doesn't mean that SL on a mobile cant work or would be irrelevant which, is what both Adam Sparks and Thorinll have stated as being the case and what my response was to. I used avakinlife as an example in response to Adam Sparks stating that a virtual world on a mobile device entailing very similar aspects to SL would not work and would be a cluster. Whilst yes I admit avakinlife is vastly different I in no way implied that SL is the same as them. I was just showing that it can be done if the money is there. The basis that on the cloud SL has the potential to work on mobile is what I was saying in the same way avakinlife can in response to your post. You even admit that the potential is there but LL finances aren't due to Sansar and I fully agree and is why they should have just made SL2 and allow that to be the mobile client as well. I.e. one client for PC and the other for mobile but both use the same avatar. Mark Kingdon (as much as he was hated) was looking into trying to do this very thing but couldn't due to security risk, aka opensim and sl.