See and Chat with Residents on this Parcel sort of ....

[Reb0ot]

ok was playing with this setting in about land  /  Options and it seems to hide your avi when unchecked. But not if your over the land above the banlines I can cam down and see the people . Is this by design or is it  bug?

 

Thanks!

[Monday Avril]

It's not a bug its a feature :smileyvery-happy:

[Reb0ot]

If that "feature" is supposed to hide the avatar but you can see it from above if your over their land ..sounds like a bug to me..either its hidden or not ...

:smileyindifferent:

[Ceka Cianci]

when you are above it you are considered within the land lines..so of course you would be able to see in..because you actually are in..hehehe

[Reb0ot]

So the following statment by Rand Linden is false

"To be clear, when a parcel has avatars hidden, anyone outside the parcel cannot see (or communicate with) those on the parcel; conversely, if you are on the parcel, you can't see (or communicate with) anyone outside of it. "

Should say -

"To be clear, when a parcel has avatars hidden, anyone outside the parcel cannot see (or communicate with) those on the parcel unless they are over the parcel; "

Sounds rather stupid does it not?

Lets be clear here...its meant to hide an avatar...if you can bypass it by being over the land it makes the whole feature meaningless. Why bother having it?  hehehehe

 

 

 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

There is no such thing as over a parcel.

If you are within the x and y dimensions, you are inside of it.

Z is not relevant.

No such thing as over. Only in, or out.

 

[Reb0ot]

Z is not relevant?  Since when?  You cant be in the x or y demensions if you have public access off. The ban lines prevent you from entering the (x,y )  until you reach to a certain Z height .

now back to my point...from the page that explains this feature:

Uses

Hiding avatars on a parcel may be useful for:

• Meetings and classrooms - when you want to meet with people without being observed or overheard by others on the region.
• Home dressing rooms - you can experiment with clothing, skins or avatars outside your neighbors' view.
• Store dressing rooms - retail establishments can provide areas in which customers can try outfits, skins and avatars without exposure to other shoppers.

 

No-where does it negate all of that by saying expcept if the avatar is in the (x,y) demensions. Makes the whole thing worthless.  If you are on my land and I have scripts or rez disabled then you cant do either. SO why cant the same thing happen with this hide avatar option?

 

 

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

If you don't want an audience,  a security orb placed up high is effective lol.

[Reb0ot]

Yes orbs work great.Im just trying to understand the logic behind this land option that has a whole  page dedicated to it but can be bypassed ;]

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Hiding-avatars-and-restricting-avatar-sounds/ta-p/999779

 

Let's see here.. Maybe it should say:

Hiding avatars on a parcel may be useful for:

• Meetings and classrooms - when you want to meet with people without being observed or overheard by others on the region. But you can be observed if they are in your/same land coordinates.

 

• Home dressing rooms - you can experiment with clothing, skins or avatars outside your neighbors' view. But you are not outside your neighbors view if they are in your/same land coordinates

 

• Store dressing rooms - retail establishments can provide areas in which customers can try outfits, skins and avatars without exposure to other shoppers. But you are exposed to other shoppers if they are in your/same land cordinnates.

Am I the only  one here that sees a problem here? LOL

I give up oO

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

Reb0ot wrote:

Z is not relevant?  Since when?  

---

Since 2003.

A parcel is defined by x and y dimensions, and owns ALL of the Z. They've changed how high into the Z you can rez things over the years - but that's it.

 

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Reb0ot wrote:

Yes orbs work great.Im just trying to understand the logic behind this land option that has a whole  page dedicated to it but can be bypassed ;]

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Hiding-avatars-and-restricting-avatar-sounds/ta-p/999779

 

Let's see here.. Maybe it should say:

Hiding avatars

on a parcel may be useful for:

• Meetings and classrooms - when you want to meet with people without being observed or overheard by others on the region.
  But you can be observed if they are in your/same land coordinates.

 

• Home dressing rooms - you can experiment with clothing, skins or avatars outside your neighbors' view.
  But you are not outside your neighbors view if they are in your/same land coordinates

 

• Store dressing rooms - retail establishments can provide areas in which customers can try outfits, skins and avatars without exposure to other shoppers.
  But you are exposed to other shoppers if they are in your/same land cordinnates
  .

Am I the only  one here that sees a problem here? LOL

I give up oO

 

 

 

 

 

 

---

it says what it does in this part..the parcel doesn't stop at the ban lines..it goes all the way up..you are not gonna hear anything from up that high if ban lines are on anyways..

if you get caught inside snoopin around then  banned from the parcel then you won't be going there...

if you are outside it works..if you are inside it is still doing what it says because it's not meant to work on the inside..it's for parcel lines..ban lines are not parcel lines..there are other things the owner of the land can do to deal with snoops on the inside..this was not meant as a one stop shop type of feature..

just an addition..

 

When enabled:

• Those outside the parcel can't see avatars on the parcel and vice-versa.  Other objects are not affected (EXCEPTION: vehicles ridden by hidden avatars are also hidden.)
• Those outside the parcel can't see nearby text chat from those on the parcel, and vice-versa.

 

[Phil Deakins]

---

Reb0ot wrote:

Z is not relevant?  Since when?  You cant be in the x or y demensions if you have public access off. The ban lines prevent you from entering the (x,y )  until you reach to a certain Z height .

now back to my point...from the page that explains this feature:

Uses

Hiding avatars

on a parcel may be useful for:

• Meetings and classrooms - when you want to meet with people without being observed or overheard by others on the region.
• Home dressing rooms - you can experiment with clothing, skins or avatars outside your neighbors' view.
• Store dressing rooms - retail establishments can provide areas in which customers can try outfits, skins and avatars without exposure to other shoppers.

No-where does it negate all of that by saying expcept if the avatar is in the (x,y) demensions. Makes the whole thing worthless.  If you are on my land and I have scripts or rez disabled then you cant do either. SO why cant the same thing happen with this hide avatar option? 

---

As has been said already, "on" the parcel means anywhere within the X and and Y coordinates. It doesn't mean "on the ground" or "on or near the ground".

[Hugsy Penguin]

---

Reb0ot wrote:

Z is not relevant?  Since when?  You cant be in the x or y demensions if you have public access off. The ban lines prevent you from entering the (x,y )  until you reach to a certain Z height .

---

Since forever.  While there IS such a thing as being over and outside the scope of ban lines, there IS NO such thing as being over and outside the scope of the parcel.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlOverMyLand

 

 

[Qwalyphi Korpov]

The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement.

 

[Monday Avril]

You are close Qwa

Maybe they don't finished it until. And as we know things will happen to be finished

sometimes in sl but need patience. As they did with teleport issues or recent crashes

on rez.

[Solar Legion]

Even if this has been stated before ... I'll state it again: Generalized ban lines only go up so high on a parcel, even though the code that designates the parcel goes up to and beyond the build ceiling. There is no such thing as being "over" a parcel.

This was put in place long ago to allow users to use the "air space" beyond a specific Z coordinate as a fly-through zone. 

[Eloise Baily]

I think people are meaning two different things here.

To the computery, codey type of person there is no such thing as above or over a parcel, which is true if you look at it within the structure of said parcel.

 

To the avi on the street, above or over a parcel means in the air within said parcel, looking down. There is such a thing as that.

 

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Eloise Baily wrote:

I think people are meaning two different things here.

To the computery, codey type of person there is no such thing as above or over a parcel, which is true if you look at it within the structure of said parcel.

 

To the avi on the street, above or over a parcel means in the air within said parcel, looking down. There is such a thing as that.

 

---

my meaning was that the settings were never meant to work within the perimeter of the land lines no matter where you are..on the ground or in the sky ..because it is set to where you can't see people inside..

if you are inside on the ground or 20 meters up or 4,000..they were never meant to stop anyone on the inside anywhere from seeing anything hehehe

the op is thinking there is a flaw in the design when there isn't one..

those setting work all the way to the build height limit and maybe even beyond..just like banning someone does..

it would be fail if they were on and we couldn't see each other while we were inside the parcel hehehe

 

[Qwalyphi Korpov]

The resident who provided the previous content, if any, has replaced it with this generic statement.

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Qwalyphi Korpov wrote:

---

Ceka Cianci wrote:

---

Eloise Baily wrote:

I think people are meaning two different things here.

To the computery, codey type of person there is no such thing as above or over a parcel, which is true if you look at it within the structure of said parcel.

 

To the avi on the street, above or over a parcel means in the air within said parcel, looking down. There is such a thing as that.

 

---

my meaning was that the settings were never meant to work within the perimeter of the land lines no matter where you are..on the ground or in the sky ..because it is set to where you can't see people inside..

if you are inside on the ground or 20 meters up or 4,000..they were never meant to stop anyone on the inside anywhere from seeing anything hehehe

the op is thinking there is a flaw in the design when there isn't one..

those setting work all the way to the build height limit and maybe even beyond..just like banning someone does..

it would be fail if they were on and we couldn't see each other while we were inside the parcel hehehe

 

---

nit pick -

Banning is only effective to about 800 meters.  Above that banned AVs can enter the parcel freely unless there's a security orb or the like.   That's the issue in SVC-2546.

---

oh my mistake..i thought it went all the way up..

pretty much anyone i ever banned from my parcels when i was 4000 meters up never came back..but then again..i may have just scared them so much that they decided to never return lol

i do know the settings for the parcels to where you can't see in go all the way up though..i found this out in a funny way..

i had two parcels right next to each other..i set the settings to where you couldn't see in..

so when i sat on my couch and my friend sat on my couch ..we both couldn't see each other..i found out my couch was cut right in the middle where the two parcels met LOL

i never really had that many people over there ..so just me being there i never saw it until then lol or didn't see it i mean lol

 

[Solar Legion]

Aaaaaaand .... it doesn't matter in the long run.

What the OP hadn't gotten by the point I'd posted was that the air above a parcel is still a part of the parcel and that the access system only blocks the parcel up to a certain height when public access is shut off. 

[Ceka Cianci]

---

Solar Legion wrote:

Aaaaaaand .... it doesn't matter in the long run.

What the OP hadn't gotten by the point I'd posted was that the air above a parcel is still a part of the parcel and that the access system only blocks the parcel up to a certain height when public access is shut off. 

---

yep true...because the parcel settings not broken by havok4 go all the way up..

new settings wouldn't go all the way up to and maybe past 4096 if LL intended the parcel to only be 800 meters up or whatever the height for the broken ones are..

[161488303349]

---

Reb0ot wrote:

Am I the only  one here that sees a problem here? LOL

I give up oO

 

---

dont give up (:

the actual solution is what you are asking for. argent stonecutter has a jira request for years now about creating a room. a black box that no one can see into or out of. the newish parcel visibility option on XY partially addressed that. except on the Z like you have found out

one of the things that could have been done but wasnt is: when you turn off visibility option and turn on banlines then anyone on top of the banline box cant see into the box, or you them, same as Xy

[Solar Legion]

The present implementation makes far more sense from a coding standpoint. The option to block sight, sound and text from those outside the parcel functions exactly as intended!

The parcel Z coordinate goes up beyond the build height, thus if you are anywhere within the X, Y and Z coordinates of the parcel ... you're IN the parcel.

Your only present recourse is to use a security system.

While I am thankful that there's even an option like this out there .... I have noticed that those who wish for "privacy" keep pushing for more and more ...

To them, I have this to say - I'm sorry: I was not aware that you had a right to hide your very existence. I was not aware you had the right to control other people in an effort to hide yourself. If you value your (Virtual) privacy so much, don't log in. 

[Hugsy Penguin]

---

Solar Legion wrote:

 

While I am thankful that there's even an option like this out there .... I have noticed that those who wish for "privacy" keep pushing for more and more ...

To them, I have this to say - I'm sorry: I was not aware that you had a right to hide your very existence. I was not aware you had the right to control other people in an effort to hide yourself. If you value your (Virtual) privacy so much,

don't log in.

 

---

I have land on the mainland.  Every month and year I pay money to Linden Lab to "own" this parcel.  That gives me the right to use the available tools to keep others off my land.  That includes ejecting/banning avatars as well as blocking sight/chat with avatars not on the parcel.

Furthermore, the above plus the Jira, at the very least, gives me the ability (if not the right) to lobby LL for greater privacy controls.  Then, LL can decide whether or not to implement them.

Do not confuse the desire for privacy with the desire for eternal solitude.  There were two examples given in this thread already for why privacy is important.  They're not even sexual in nature.  In case you missed them, they are:  private meeting spaces and private dressing rooms (home or commercial).