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Yingzi Xue

LL Viewer 3 lags like crazy on high, Firestorm runs ultra just fine... what gives?

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Ok, so I decided to give the official viewer 3 a chance today.  I have been using Phoenix and Firestorm for over a year, after finally giving up my much coveted viewer 1.

I don't understand why Firestorm runs so great on my ATI Radeon HD 5870 but whenever I try to run LL viewer 3 it lags so much.  It boggles my mind that the official viewer runs so awful.  I'm so glad I have a choice with Firestorm, because if I were forced to use viewer 3 from LL I think I'd go insane.

Just venting.  Thanks or listening.

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Yingzi Xue wrote:

Ok, so I decided to give the official viewer 3 a chance today.  I have been using Phoenix and Firestorm for over a year, after finally giving up my much coveted viewer 1.

I don't understand why Firestorm runs so great on my ATI Radeon HD 5870 but whenever I try to run LL viewer 3 it lags so much.  It boggles my mind that the official viewer runs so awful.  I'm so glad I have a choice with Firestorm, because if I were forced to use viewer 3 from LL I think I'd go insane.

Just venting.  Thanks or listening.

i am not certain on this but ATI cards may run better on firestorm..i've heard recently from people that the official viewer and ATI cards don't mesh well together..but nividea cards seem to be the way to go..

that may have something to do with it..just a guess on my part..

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Yingzi Xue wrote:

That doesn't make sense, considering the code base is the same and they're both using OpenGL.

as i said it's just something i heard..mostly in threads here and there in the forum..

for my system..all i know is my nividea card seem to run better for me in V3 than FS..

i was using phoenix when it first came out until pre-alpha FS came out..then when they changed to that rushed mesh version i jumped on beta V3 untill FS came out with the mesh release they wanted for their V2 ..then tried that and went back to V3..

i'm not saying what i heard was fact or makes sense..i don't use ATI myself..

i just know what my card does in all those so far..

hopefully this time next month it won't matter what viewer i'm in..i'm going all out on a new system LOL

 

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Yingzi Xue wrote:

That doesn't make sense, considering the code base is the same and they're both using OpenGL.

as i said it's just something i heard..mostly in threads here and there in the forum..

for my system..all i know is my nividea card seem to run better for me in V3 than FS..

i was using phoenix when it first came out until pre-alpha FS came out..then when they changed to that rushed mesh version i jumped on beta V3 untill FS came out with the mesh release they wanted for their V2 ..then tried that and went back to V3..

i'm not saying what i heard was fact or makes sense..i don't use ATI myself..

i just know what my card does in all those so far..

hopefully this time next month it won't matter what viewer i'm in..i'm going all out on a new system LOL

 

Congrats on the new forthcoming system.

I guess I'll just have to use Firestorm, which I like better anyway.  Can't say I didn't try to give it a go.  Maybe someone will find a solution at some point, or possibly LL will fix it in the future. *cough*

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

My iMac uses AMD Radeon HD 6750M 512 MB and it runs amazingly well on the official viewer 3.

Odd.  I'll do some digging and see what I can come up with.

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Yingzi Xue wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:


Yingzi Xue wrote:

That doesn't make sense, considering the code base is the same and they're both using OpenGL.

as i said it's just something i heard..mostly in threads here and there in the forum..

for my system..all i know is my nividea card seem to run better for me in V3 than FS..

i was using phoenix when it first came out until pre-alpha FS came out..then when they changed to that rushed mesh version i jumped on beta V3 untill FS came out with the mesh release they wanted for their V2 ..then tried that and went back to V3..

i'm not saying what i heard was fact or makes sense..i don't use ATI myself..

i just know what my card does in all those so far..

hopefully this time next month it won't matter what viewer i'm in..i'm going all out on a new system LOL

 

Congrats on the new forthcoming system.

I guess I'll just have to use Firestorm, which I like better anyway.  Can't say I didn't try to give it a go.  Maybe someone will find a solution at some point, or possibly LL will fix it in the future. *cough*

i did see they had an update just the past couple of days..i don't know if you had maybe used that one or an earlier one..i will say i haven't tried the newest update yet ..so i may be back in here with you later today  screaming  about it..lol

 

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I've put the newest update on my system and still getting good results. The change log seemed to address a -LOT- of bugs related to FPS so in theory it should improve for people who were slower on the last patch.

 

 

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Ceka Cianci wrote:


Yingzi Xue wrote:


Ceka Cianci wrote:


Yingzi Xue wrote:

That doesn't make sense, considering the code base is the same and they're both using OpenGL.

as i said it's just something i heard..mostly in threads here and there in the forum..

for my system..all i know is my nividea card seem to run better for me in V3 than FS..

i was using phoenix when it first came out until pre-alpha FS came out..then when they changed to that rushed mesh version i jumped on beta V3 untill FS came out with the mesh release they wanted for their V2 ..then tried that and went back to V3..

i'm not saying what i heard was fact or makes sense..i don't use ATI myself..

i just know what my card does in all those so far..

hopefully this time next month it won't matter what viewer i'm in..i'm going all out on a new system LOL

 

Congrats on the new forthcoming system.

I guess I'll just have to use Firestorm, which I like better anyway.  Can't say I didn't try to give it a go.  Maybe someone will find a solution at some point, or possibly LL will fix it in the future. *cough*

i did see they had an update just the past couple of days..i don't know if you had maybe used that one or an earlier one..i will say i haven't tried the newest update yet ..so i may be back in here with you later today  screaming  about it..lol

 

I downloaded the latest yesterday.  Graphics card drivers are up to date.

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Step back 1 version and compare, and then do the same with the beta. Which of the three works worst or best for you...

I was worried about this coming patch because the Beta was doing horrid on my system - but the patch itself worked great.

(I assume the beta was bad from debugging code, but no idea, I'd read blogs of people on beta who seemed to have no issues with it.)

 

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Ok, here's what I did... I switched to the low graphics setting, turned off anti-aliasing and still when I rotate around in a circle it's not smooth, it's laggy.  So either the viewer has an issue with ATI cards or the driver and the viewer are having issues.  Either way, I shouldn't have to revert back to an old graphics driver (which will break some of the latest games I play) to get the viewer to work properly.  Firestorm runs lightning fast on ultra, so it has to be an issue with LL's viewer vs ATI.  The fact that Firestorm runs great means their team is doing something right and LL is doing something wrong.  I'm not going to revert drivers just to fix a problem that shouldn't exist.  I'll just use Firestorm until LL fixes their issues.  It looks like LL needs to consult with the Firestorm team and find out how their viewer runs so great with ATI. lol

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Yingzi Xue wrote:

Ok, here's what I did... I switched to the low graphics setting, turned off anti-aliasing and still when I rotate around in a circle it's not smooth, it's laggy.  So either the viewer has an issue with ATI cards or the driver and the viewer are having issues.  Either way, I shouldn't have to revert back to an old graphics driver (which will break some of the latest games I play) to get the viewer to work properly.  Firestorm runs lightning fast on ultra, so it has to be an issue with LL's viewer vs ATI.  The fact that Firestorm runs great means their team is doing something right and LL is doing something wrong.  I'm not going to revert drivers just to fix a problem that shouldn't exist.  I'll just use Firestorm until LL fixes their issues.  It looks like LL needs to consult with the Firestorm team and find out how their viewer runs so great with ATI. lol

what is Firestorms latest version??

i may not have tried it..i think the last version i tried was when they came out with the version of mesh that they were wanting to put out..that was awhile ago..

i think it was when they first came out of beta to their first actual release..

this is the one i'm showing as the last one i had tried of theirs.. Phoenix_Firestorm-Release_3-2-2-24336

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I have a very old ATI Radeon card (4-5 years old) and I get better performance with the latest official viewers or TPVs that use the latest code. I gave up on FIrestorm a long while ago because that viewer is really outdated and they are extremely slow with any updates. I love the newest UI and I am glad that some TPVs are updating their viewers and staying up to date with the latest code and fixes, like Catznip and Exodus. 

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What  official viewer number are we talking about?  As Pussycat suggests, there's been a lot of changes in the code over recent weeks to fix various graphics problems, and I think (though I'm not sure) that Firestorm's set of fixes is mid-way between those in the Official Viewer but some way behind those in the more recent beta viewers.

 

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Both are the latest viewers.  As you can see, the Firestorm viewer had an update in late November, the LL viewer had an update on January 5th.

 

  • Second Life 3.2.5 (247236) Jan  5 2012 12:10:23 (Second Life Release)
  • Firestorm 3.2.2 (24336) Nov 27 2011 17:05:37 (Firestorm-Release)

Great performance on ultra using FIrestorm.  Laggy on low using LL.

@ Innula - If those are fixes, roll me back. hehe

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Yingzi Xue wrote:

Both are the latest viewers.  As you can see, the Firestorm viewer had an update in late November, the LL viewer had an update on January 5th.

 
  • Second Life 3.2.5 (247236) Jan  5 2012 12:10:23 (Second Life Release)
  • Firestorm 3.2.2 (24336) Nov 27 2011 17:05:37 (Firestorm-Release)

Great performance on ultra using FIrestorm.  Laggy on low using LL.

@ Innula - If those are fixes, roll me back. hehe

Not quite, FIrestorm is still using an older code. LL official viewers have undergone an overhaul of the UI and since have improved a lot performance wise as Innula has pointed out. 

 

ETA: Having said all that I am not saying you should be having the same results as me. Some people have experienced increased performance and some have gotten a decrease in performance. It all varies with many different factors. For example in this same machine I will not attempt to play SL while using Windows any more, it is very laggy and frustrating. On the other hand while on Linux (same machine) I will get way better performance, for example on one sim under windows I will get only about 10fps max but under Linux I will get 25fps which is good enough for me. 

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No, she's using the latest  LL beta (well, not quite because, there's a new one today, I've just discovered) ,   That certainly fixed a lot of Nvidia issues, but that's not what she's using.

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

No, she's using the latest  
LL beta 
(well, not quite because, there's a new one today, I've just discovered) ,   That certainly fixed a lot of Nvidia issues, but that's not what she's using.

I'll check out the beta.

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I beta test games, the racing game I'm betaing now rairly drops bellow 60fps. Quadcore, 6 gig ram and a 1 gigi ATI card. On SL with the latest viewer and the graphics bottomed out I'm lucky to get 4 fps. I don't go to SL much, when it takes half an hour to load a sim, I just don't have the time. I keep hoping it will get better, been hoping for a year. New viewer comes along and I lose more FPS. :smileyfrustrated:

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There's some big differences, such as SL needing to download graphics data over the net. And I can see the overall system, server code running the regions and the network connecting them, as being well behind the curve because of early decisions made.

It wouldn't surprise me if 512m regions would be a viable choice now, but converting the whole grid would be difficult. Researchers have figured out how to run sims with a hundred active residents.

I doubt Linden Lab can afford to start from scratch on their code.

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I've recently observed behaviour which suggests that the bottlenecks on my system are not the graphics card. The frame rate barely changes with quality level, but the ktris/sec figure can see a six-fold increase between low and ultra. I've even seen fream rate increase when I've turned on shadows and DoF, which seems weird.

There's a page in the Wiki which compares the SL performance of various graphics cards, and there are benchmark results elsenet. There hasn't been the increase in SL performance to match the increase in GPU performance.

Henri Beauchamp claims that there are some significant optimisations that can be made to the code. I've tried his Cool VL Viewer, It does give noticeably higher frame rates.

I can't help wondering if, when Viewer 2 was outsourced, Linden Lab started losing the institutional knowledge needed to maintain their Viewer. But the TPVs start from the same codebase. Maybe their developers, spending time in SL for fun, know better what needs to be fixed.

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