Gavin Hird Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Because they no longer have to log in while they hunt for free products, and make the purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 In the current model it has max 5 years. By moving to a completely different business model, it could proliferate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Gavin Hird wrote: Because they no longer have to log in while they hunt for free products, and make the purchase. People have X or XX amount of time to give attention to the inworld screen. That's making a rather large assumption that shopping time out of world is decreasing pleasure time inworld. I don't really see that. I see it increasing pleasure time. People are able to go to more events, explore more. But that's assumption too. Looks to me from their profiles, that they are doing tons of different stuff, certainly get that from the conversations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The time consuming part is not the hunt for freebies, but unpacking and playing with them. Fitting those clothes, rezzing that chair to see how it looks, putting things you like in such a way folders in your inventory that you can find them back later. Those things will have to happen in world anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Profiles and the SLUM features taking more away from in-world communication. Nifty for some people yes, less costly for LL, yes. Group chat and groups are more costly and chat still doesn't work properly. Also true that while we were weened on long hours in-world, the next generation, or current generation of social networking and mobile folks don't have the attention span. Get them to interact more and spend more without going in-world. People will buy goods without ever actually using them. Shopping itself is a pastime with its own rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Josh Susanto wrote: I think the assumptions are that both higher concurrency and higher land value are always desireable, regardless of how they are to be acheived. If you want to see these guys' heads explode, ask them whether they would prefer to sacrifice concurrency for land value or land value for concurrency. I would prefer much higher concurrency.......there's far too much land on SL Grid and i've said that for several years now. Just think of 31k sims on the grid versus peak logins of 60-70k.....that's 2 avatars per sim when SL is at it's busiest. LL (or Jack Linden) are responsible for over supply of Mainland. Now we're paying the price of great swathes of empty barron land right across all their Mainland continents. Creating Zindra (adult) & Linden Homes compounded to those problems. LL couldn't really do much with the Estate Sims market, if people are willing to buy sims. I supposed LL could have capped supply....which would have meant relying solely on the secondary market of resident-to-resident buying & selling of Sims. That would have pushed up values for both lands & sims. LL would not have benefitted from such a strategy, as they're in the business of maximising their own Tier income and selling as many Sims as they can. They don't care that most sims stand there virtually empty for most of any given day....nor that it drives their resell value into the floor! Estate Owners can't even give away their sims....lack of takers, so they end up returning them to LL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Gavin Hird wrote: Concurrency currently varies between about 32k and 65k throughout the day. There are about 32k sims or so, running on 5-6000 servers. This means that on the best times of the day there are a maximum of 2 user agents per sim on the grid. Anything that would bring the concurrency up to the double, or gasp - even 10 user agents per sim at peak would be a tremendous boost for SecondLife and the SL economy. Totally agreed Gavin....and the key to Second Life's future too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Dartagan Shepherd wrote: Profiles and the SLUM features taking more away from in-world communication. Nifty for some people yes, less costly for LL, yes. Group chat and groups are more costly and chat still doesn't work properly. Also true that while we were weened on long hours in-world, the next generation, or current generation of social networking and mobile folks don't have the attention span. Get them to interact more and spend more without going in-world. People will buy goods without ever actually using them. Shopping itself is a pastime with its own rewards. Not sure if you have a problem with that or not, but there's a lot more to do on the web, then when I joined SL quite a few years ago. Addictive stuff. Addictive works. Being a merchant is addictive - hamster on a wheel - dang shame they did not capitalize on that. Farmville on a silver platter for ceo when he arrived. Dropped ball on that. Most were ready to go then, ready to use new tools. There's a lot more to do on the web....and I'm glad that they are providing the marketplace in with that. Very fortunate that is working out (minus the shopping cart glitch at the moment) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 >From the (commercial) creator's standpoint – how many would you have to sell to even get to a minimum wage hourly rate for the time you spent creating it?------------------------------------------------------ It's really a question of the value the sales provide to us more than how that value is counted in dollars. This depends upon minimum wage in the country where you live, whether you end up paying any tax on such income, and other factors, such as the actual cost of living (pretty low here). In my own case, the question of how many I sell seems ot boil down to the question of how long I can sell it. If I can make a 9L sculpt in 5 minutes and sell at least 2 or 3 a week for the next 10 years, it's a pretty good deal. With most of my products, they only seem to sell more the longer I offer them, even though they are full perms copymods. Also, the more products I offer, the more of the others sell. That is; on the balance, each additional product is a better investment for me than the previous one. That I was able to use an SL cash-out to become a permanent resident here has A LOT of value to me, considering that I don't ever really want to go back to the US to do anything but pick up some personal items from the storage area over my mother's garage. Without the SL money I had accumulated, this could have become a lot more complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I'm already on Chrome, thanks. I completely restarted. Same problem as before. Lacking a stronger hypothesis at this point, I'm naturally defaulting to "borked by Malefactor Linden". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tari Landar Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Gavin Hird wrote: Because they no longer have to log in while they hunt for free products, and make the purchase. But people haven't had to do that for years, as it is. From the days of slex, and on, didn't have to be logged in-world to search,shop and purchase. Just, lik we do now, had to be logged in to receive. We did have warnings telling us we should be logged in before making a purchase, because the item *could be lost, but plenty of people weren't logged in while browsing and purchasing. But I still don't quite understand how freebies, themselves, have somehow changed this, or made this happen (made people not login to search). Freebies, dollarbies and such have always been a part of whatever market we had to our disposal, be it slex, xstreet, whatever. They've existed. The only reason you might see more now, is because there are more merchants selling them now. But there are still a crap ton in-world, far more than you'll find on marketplace too. Yet I don't see anyone saying a negative word about in-world ones, just the MP ones. Makes not a lick of sense, though I'm trying to make sense of that standpoint, trying real hard. MP freebies are no different than in-world ones, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Josh Susanto wrote: I'm already on Chrome, thanks. I completely restarted. Same problem as before. Lacking a stronger hypothesis at this point, I'm naturally defaulting to "borked by Malefactor Linden". That Malefactor Linden is a sneaky one. Apparently affects not only quoting but your own responses from being able to contain line breaks and paragraphs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Yes you could, but the difference is that new residents are sent directly to the marketplace from the viewer menu, and therefore may not even have to set foot in-world to shop. Combine that with the massive amounts of free to nearly free items that preceeding any commercial products for the most common search items, and you have a scenario for diminishing returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Josh Susanto wrote: >From the (commercial) creator's standpoint – how many would you have to sell to even get to a minimum wage hourly rate for the time you spent creating it?------------------------------------------------------ It's really a question of the value the sales provide to us more than how that value is counted in dollars. This depends upon minimum wage in the country where you live, whether you end up paying any tax on such income, and other factors, such as the actual cost of living (pretty low here). And other factors... such as whether you create your own textures or you just grab something from a website without asking permission from the IP right holders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I am not sure your long tail is more than 3 years for technological reasons. Sculpts will fast be replaced with mesh items, and for many content creators the transition can be a rough ride. Combine that with the mobile client LL is working on, you may have to make significant investments to be successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Gavin Hird wrote: Yes you could, but the difference is that new residents are sent directly to the marketplace from the viewer menu, and therefore may not even have to set foot in-world to shop. Combine that with the massive amounts of free to nearly free items that preceeding any commercial products for the most common search items, and you have a scenario for diminishing returns. Do you realize who else is sent directly to the marketplace? Tons of people. One thing that LL does have a grip on, is how to get top page billing on google search. They got that covered. People who some portion of ....will be intrigued. The marketplace brings new joins. For a fact, Jack. Brought some to me. web-based marketplace with top ranking pages in google search.....drawing them in. Would love to see numbers on that one. Just not sure if LL can figure it out. I can, from my own pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Gavin Hird wrote: From a commercial standpoint, a L$10 item is not worth it. It does not even cover the cost of storing it on the server disk-farm and transmit the product record to the website for display to you. From the (commercial) creator's standpoint – how many would you have to sell to even get to a minimum wage hourly rate for the time you spent creating it? Yep, i've often wondered about that...especially if you happen to pay rent or Tiers for SL land too! How many of these 1 to 10 L products would they need to sell to cover their in-world costs....no wonder so many Merchants only use "break-even" as their goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Ranking top on google means squat when 98% of your new signups leave within the first hour never to return. Over 5.2 million of them do every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I've got some marketplace items sitting top billing on a google image search among real world product. Part of that is hits from my twitter - but part is from LL. Combination works great. They sit there base on very general terms that do not include the phrase "second life" - very general terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Do you get any click throughs all the way to a purchase on these? Your guess is as good as mine... ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Gavin Hird wrote: Ranking top on google means squat when 98% of your new signups leave within the first hour never to return. Over 5.2 million of them do every year. I don't think that has to do with Freebies at all. I think that has to do with arriving as a Cloud, and not being able to figure out if you're going to get a body or not - did fair share of exploration on that - you can click on my Noob link below. Every time I logged in, there were a bunch of Clouds standing around at the welcome places, with not a clue as to how to rix themselves. I don't need to do any more research on that - got better things to do. And I get fair share of hits to my blog on that with keyword phrases "help, I'm a cloud" "cloud in second life" - holy cow Sounds to me like they can do fine with the hit and miss plan. Numbers game. Would imagine that most web sites play the same game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 No, they don't do fine with a hit and miss plan. SecondLife is not a web site. Stop treating it like that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Gavin Hird wrote: Do you get any click throughs all the way to a purchase on these? Your guess is as good as mine... ;-) That would be hard to track - I'm talking about people that are not a second life user. I can tell from looking at blog, that many are not second life users by the keywords they type in. I would not be able to track that, as they would have to go to hit the "join" button after visiting the marketplace page, and I would not have access to those numbers Numbers Game. If you're sittin' top page of google for a general term, within large retailers.....you've got numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Gavin Hird wrote: Ranking top on google means squat when 98% of your new signups leave within the first hour never to return. Over 5.2 million of them do every year. Yep, that is the biggest problem LL is facing... loosing way to much people right after entering the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Madeliefste Oh wrote: I think that removing camping from the grid has had a big influence on the long tail of the market. The majority of the SL residents are not willing to spend any real money in SL. In those day when it was so easy for new residents to make some small amounts, there was a large newbie market to sell to. Because even the people that didn't bring in money, made at least money roll. By forbidding camping LL cut of a piece of this long tail.. that part of the market where small guys make small bucks. When a happy camper in 2007 or so was willing to pay 20 L$ for a funny t-shirt, but this funny shirt started to loose it's value, when this easy way of money making for newcomers was no longer around. That was so true....yet another Jack Linden b#ll**bleep** policy change! :matte-motes-sour: Whilst i supported the removal of Traffic Bots or not counting them as Traffic.....i did not want to see the end of real avatar camping. It stands to reason that it would impact the in-world economy sooner or later. Although I never camped myself.....i heard lots of nice stories, where groups of campers formed friendships that are still maintained to this day! It was a good way to meet people and interact....not all were afk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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