Rene Erlanger Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Josh - you don't expect me to read your Story? You have my messages mixed in with yours, without any paragraphs. Learn to use the "Quote" button and write in short sentences or use paragraphs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Rene Erlanger wrote: Mickey Vandeverre wrote: You don't "have a dog in this race" because you don't even use marketplace. You have no clue what is going on, and are living in 2006, and disgruntled because whatever you were doing in 2006 is not working for you now. You really are one ignorant person! Haven't I listed on Marketplace ? So that must have been during 2011? I remember having to re-do all the Descriptions Fields as they were ruined through the migration process. I have news for you.....I always continued making sales on Marketplace! :matte-motes-wink-tongue: Being away from SL for 7/ 8 mths...i didn't have much chance in optimising keywords on my MP Store or add items to it.. When I arrived back to SL, there were more important tasks In-world to worry about. I view Marketplace as a supplement (an add-on) to my in-world businesses, it always been that way!. Yes, I do have a "dog in the race"....I want commerce to return to the Grid. I signed up to a 3D Virtual World platform not to a 2D glorified Shopping site. Why should i be disgruntled Mickey? .....I still possess all my land & commercial holdings in SL? Have you? :matte-motes-tongue: So you've learnt how to use Twitter, Faceboook, blogs and how to effect your obscure keywords on Google main search...and that makes you hip? I'm sorry, but I just have to chuckle a bit. I gave up some parcels, because after tracking landings, observed that a very large portion were not coming to the store to purchase, they were simply clicking away and buying. There is no reason to pay for excessive prim space when most do not go see! unless of course, your ego requires it. That's not failure - that's smart biz move. And it worked great. For the most part, they are not even inworld when they are purchasing. You don't track anything like that, so you don't have a clue what the buying behavior is. I'm sorry, but I cannot be one of the oldbies that is tied to endless amounts of costly prim usage, just to promote a 3D experience for Linden Lab and the other oldbies. And that has nothing to do with Freebies. eta: that should say "tracking NON-landings" as opposed to tracking "landings" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Mickey Vandeverre wrote: For the most part, they are not even inworld when they are purchasing. You don't track anything like that, so you don't have a clue what the buying behavior is. And this is, somehow an advantage for a 3D virtual world or a merchant? Hey, here is a business idea for you: "Let's just create a website full of free 3D content that only gets delivered to /dev/null when people buy them. The thrill of the hunt alone will bring people in in droves." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Clarissa Lowell wrote: Rene Erlanger wrote: It's been proven that other well marketed VW's have all grown during a RL recession without the need of providing it's membership with free in-world products. Even ones like SL that don't "entertain" but make the person use their own imagination and work to find the fun? Not just an MMPORG? You mean MMOG? ....you can create for IMVU too, but obviously it doesn't have a patch on Second Life. I'm not sure if those creations "have to" be listed on the IMVU shopping site or can be kept by the creator. I'm sure there will be other virtual platforms springing up, where users can create it's own content.....it's just that Second Life was efffectively the pioneer of such model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Josh Susanto wrote: That you're responding to my my message... ....Can I be totally wrong about this? I suggest to put also the font size to minimum, makes you loose even more readers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 >There you go twisting my words again...where did I say Freebies were largely copybotted items.....i used it as an example of a sub-group....you can add other sub-groups....those that infringe copyright material....or those that re-sell or distribute full-perm products without permission. You are correct that my reference is imprecise. What you said was: -"Most of these Freebies or ultra cheap items...even the ones containing copybotted content...- I'm not clear what the point of mentioning copybotting would be in this context, other than to characterize the items as being cheap because they are copybotted, even if the syntax would seem to imply that copybotting should make things more expensive; such an implication makes zero sense to me. >I know you're one of these open-source advocates and would prefer that everything in SL were FREE, that much is obvious to me. Then why am I charging anything at all? Maybe I need to produce some kind of sculpted well for you that comes with a packet of poison to dump into it. Maybe I'm actually just here laudering money for some kind of organization that sells live babies for their organs. That would go about as far as what you've already said in terms of explaining why I offer both free items, and stuff that costs upward of 100L, so you might as well just accuse me of that, too, no? You don't know what you think you know. Advocating a less unlevel playing field and more opportunities for people with limited resources doesn't make me some kind of Stalinist. It means I want more choices for consumers. Are you against that? Why? >You shun commercialism, you hate that some folk are prepared to spend money on the game by leasing Sims or land from Linden Lab. You can't stand looking at commercialism In-World...and would rather it all be shunted off the grid to one side (i.e Marketplace). Untrue. Because I think SL should have at least one of everything, at least in some form, that would include absolutely no less than one mall. I'd even morally entertain the possibility of one casino for narrative/cultural reasons, although I'm ethically opposed to gambling as an industry. I am a sincere capitalist. That means I think other consumers have a right to choose things to do with their money that I would not choose to do. My problem with malls in SL is not that they ever existed, but that there were too many with too little in them. What I'd like to see for a mall sim would be more like an RL mall, with more RP or at least greater invitation to narrative structures other than someone buying something they have no place to rez because all of SL has become a mall. >IMO you'd be better off on some of those Open Sim Grids, which are crawling with Open-Sourceniks!....there you would find your Utopia!!! I've interacted with some of those people, and they mostly seem like a bunch of flakes. At least SL is not, nor has been, ever, any worse. >How hard is it to figure out the "Quote" option.? Now that I've been asked to look for it, I realize that it's there, thanks. I guess I'll even have to use it, since, as you can see from my recent efforts, this forum keeps responding differently to my format commands, even as I continue to use the same ones. >To any outsider reading your message...it looks like you wrote the entire message and near the end of it, started to contradict yourself. Yes. I'll take a tip from you and start contradicting myself at the beginning, instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Gavin Hird wrote: Mickey Vandeverre wrote: For the most part, they are not even inworld when they are purchasing. You don't track anything like that, so you don't have a clue what the buying behavior is. And this is, somehow an advantage for a 3D virtual world or a merchant? Hey, here is a business idea for you: "Let's just create a website full of free 3D content that only gets delivered to /dev/null when people buy them. The thrill of the hunt alone will bring people in in droves." It is, what it is. I would love to still have portions of 3 sims to play around with all day, but the buying behaviors changed. I can't force it back, neither can you or Rene. And if you could, you are taking away convenience for some shoppers. My particular market is choosing convenience, and I'm going to cater to them. (granted, there is an issue with loading the shopping cart at the moment, but working around that) If they can shop while they are not logged in....you are increasing the likelihood of additional sales - you are not decreasing. The product they are purchasing from me, goes inside a house generally or a bar or a club. If they can purchase that from their office during the day....then they are free to go about their adventures inworld, when they log in at night. They are still using the 3D experience, just maximizing their time. Sorry, but in this economy, without LL adjusting tier fees, I'm not personally able to provide the luxury - ambiance space that I was once able to provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 >Josh Susanto wrote: >Nope...if you want to list on Marketplace one should have to register at a minimum providing real name and address. If you can't make that little step.....then continue with your anonymity selling your products In-world. >If that's what we're actually talking about here, then, sure, yes. But is it? >My above quote (in blue), has nothing to do with Freebies.....its just a suggestion what Linden Lab should do with Marketplace....and might help reduce the amount of infringements. Anyway with this new proposed SOPA laws coming from the U.S......LInden Lab might well have to tighten up their Merchant policies especially when it comes to copyright material being pirated from other sources. (which we have plenty of) And I also didn't mention freebies there. I just think that what you describe and what would actually happen could turn out to be very different, aside from the question of whether freebies would be affected in any specific way, or how. BTW: so far, the quite button is only giving me error messages. This whole thing would be easier if I could still use the bar with the other formatting functions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 > "Yes, I do have a "dog in the race"....I want commerce to return to the Grid. I signed up to a 3D Virtual World platform not to a 2D glorified Shopping site." Maybe we could solve the problem by creating virtual 2d interfaces in SL and making SLM accessible only with those. Then, instead of running an in-world 3d shop, you could run a shop where avatars sit at computers and do their SLM shopping with you... you know... for some kind of fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Right, why don't you just list your entire inventory for free to make it even more convenient for your "customers"? – That way they don't even have to bother spending any money at all. What you do when you move all commerce off-grid is that the incentive to log in is (significantly) reduced. Chances are they don't even bother to log on to pick up the goods they purchased at work, and return to shop some more free stuff off the website. As someone said, "this makes people feel so rich hey don't even care if they trash the Christmas presents unopened." It largely ruins concurrency and the time people spend in-world when they finally log on. – Which makes the grid look even more empty ,and again gives the 16000 new daily signups good reason to declare the grid is BORING, and never set foot there any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 >Josh - you don't expect me to read your Story? You have my messages mixed in with yours, without any paragraphs. Learn to use the "Quote" button and write in short sentences or use paragraphs. I have tried and failed to reformat that, but I'll certainly get it done before I expect you to respond in any serious way, which is only reasonable. The quote button is still producing error messages, the other format functions are still gone, and I still don't know why this interface has changed when I haven't done anything to change it. OTOH, it's not the first time I've been met with such weird kinds of "coincidences" when saying something critical of LL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Mickey Vandeverre wrote: then you are living in another year. 2010 perhaps. People use the marketplace for convenience to save time and to shop from their home or office in physical world. They do it all day long. If you cannot grasp that, from a change in numbers, then you are not using marketplace. Good luck trying to convince customers to give up that convenience. You can call me ignorant all day long, but when you keep posting that you don't have a clue what the numbers are on the marketplace.....one has to wonder. Linden Lab has a history of changing strategies....I haven't give up on In-world commerce yet, even though it's looking bleaker than say this time last year.. You make out Marketplace is some sort of new phenomena....i'd like to remind you we could buy items offline and have them delivered (or at least place in "Favourite" folder to buy later) as far back as 2006 with SL Exchange. The only difference between the the two, is that LL owns MP and promote it in their official Viewers which naturally they never did for SLEX. Ironically SLEX was a far better all round shopping site than Marketplace...when you add in "Land Sales", "Auctions", "Currency Exchange with immediate transfer to Paypal" and a vibrant "Forum Community" listed by categories much like it is now. What numbers are these Mickey?....the ones that Linden Lab published for Q3 or Q4 Financial Reviews....or are you privy to some secret Financials only accessible to the "knowledgable one"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 >For the most part, they are not even inworld when they are purchasing. That could go a long way in explaining reduced concurrency. If that's the case, then it's probably a good thing. Why have a bunch of extra AV's lagging the system if all they're tyring to do is buy a bunch of building components (for example)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 I just want to say thanks for suggesting the quote button, which, although it has not worked, nonetheless has solved the problem of people possibly lacking a compelling excuse not to read my messages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 If anyone sees any value in doing so, please feel free to either reformat my messages or figure out how to debug this interface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Josh Susanto wrote: If anyone sees any value in doing so, please feel free to either reformat my messages or figure out how to debug this interface. I see value in your statements, Josh...always a pleasure to read. It helps to address just one bizarre statement at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Mickey Vandeverre wrote: I'm sorry, but I just have to chuckle a bit. I gave up some parcels, because after tracking landings, observed that a very large portion were not coming to the store to purchase, they were simply clicking away and buying. There is no reason to pay for excessive prim space when most do not go see! unless of course, your ego requires it. That's not failure - that's smart biz move. And it worked great. For the most part, they are not even inworld when they are purchasing. You don't track anything like that, so you don't have a clue what the buying behavior is. I'm sorry, but I cannot be one of the oldbies that is tied to endless amounts of costly prim usage, just to promote a 3D experience for Linden Lab and the other oldbies. And that has nothing to do with Freebies. eta: that should say "tracking NON-landings" as opposed to tracking "landings" You obviously not creating enough new content....as Furniture creators can never have too little prims or land for that matter (to display their products) Tracking visitor landings by parcels, even sales by parcel are easy enough to perform.....if you set it up correctly to begin. with and promote each area effectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Rene Erlanger wrote: You make out Marketplace is some sort of new phenomena....i'd like to remind you we could buy items offline and have them delivered (or at least place in "Favourite" folder to buy later) as far back as 2006 with SL Exchange. The only difference between the the two, is that LL owns MP and promote it in their official Viewers which naturally they never did for SLEX. No no, this is not the only difference and certainly not the most important. To be able to shop on Slex you had to put money in your slex account. So you had to go to these terminals first subscribe there, put money in your account, before you could buy anything on slex. Though slex was populair, it was something you only discovered when you were around for a while in SL. And because the marketplace doesn't need subcription, shopping online became possible for all residents in stead of only a group who was willing to subscribe. Now the most important difference is, that a shopper doesn't have to create a shopping wallet at the marketplace first before he can buy there. They can simple use the availabe amount on their account to shop, both for in world and on marketplace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Madeliefste Oh wrote: Now the most important difference is, that a shopper doesn't have to create a shopping wallet at the marketplace first before he can buy there. They can simple use the availabe amount on their account to shop, both for in world and on marketplace. With all the free stuff around on the marketplace, that amount can stay right where is was when they first signed up – at ZERO. So no money enters the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese%3F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Rene Erlanger wrote: Mickey Vandeverre wrote: Rene Erlanger wrote: Mickey Vandeverre wrote: You don't "have a dog in this race" because you don't even use marketplace. You have no clue what is going on, and are living in 2006, and disgruntled because whatever you were doing in 2006 is not working for you now. You really are one ignorant person! Haven't I listed on Marketplace ? So that must have been during 2011? I remember having to re-do all the Descriptions Fields as they were ruined through the migration process. I have news for you.....I always continued making sales on Marketplace! :matte-motes-wink-tongue: Being away from SL for 7/ 8 mths...i didn't have much chance in optimising keywords on my MP Store or add items to it.. When I arrived back to SL, there were more important tasks In-world to worry about. I view Marketplace as a supplement (an add-on) to my in-world businesses, it always been that way!. Yes, I do have a "dog in the race"....I want commerce to return to the Grid. I signed up to a 3D Virtual World platform not to a 2D glorified Shopping site. Why should i be disgruntled Mickey? .....I still possess all my land & commercial holdings in SL? Have you? :matte-motes-tongue: So you've learnt how to use Twitter, Faceboook, blogs and how to effect your obscure keywords on Google main search...and that makes you hip? I'm sorry, but I just have to chuckle a bit. I gave up some parcels, because after tracking landings, observed that a very large portion were not coming to the store to purchase, they were simply clicking away and buying. There is no reason to pay for excessive prim space when most do not go see! unless of course, your ego requires it. That's not failure - that's smart biz move. And it worked great. For the most part, they are not even inworld when they are purchasing. You don't track anything like that, so you don't have a clue what the buying behavior is. I'm sorry, but I cannot be one of the oldbies that is tied to endless amounts of costly prim usage, just to promote a 3D experience for Linden Lab and the other oldbies. And that has nothing to do with Freebies. eta: that should say "tracking NON-landings" as opposed to tracking "landings" You obviously not creating enough new content....as Furniture creators can never have too little prims or land for that matter (to display their products) Tracking visitor landings by parcels, even sales by parcel are easy enough to perform.....if you set it up correctly to begin. with and promote each area effectively. You obviously missed what I explained very clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Josh Susanto wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Moved_My_Cheese%3F I LOVE that book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Hird Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 The main quote to notice from this story is "If You Do Not Change, You Can Become Extinct". – As in Linden Lab throwing the cheese out with the bath water, so only the free holes are left to "buy". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Gavin Hird wrote: Right, why don't you just list your entire inventory for free to make it even more convenient for your "customers"? – That way they don't even have to bother spending any money at all. What you do when you move all commerce off-grid is that the incentive to log in is (significantly) reduced. Chances are they don't even bother to log on to pick up the goods they purchased at work, and return to shop some more free stuff off the website. As someone said, "this makes people feel so rich hey don't even care if they trash the Christmas presents unopened." It largely ruins concurrency and the time people spend in-world when they finally log on. – Which makes the grid look even more empty ,and again gives the 16000 new daily signups good reason to declare the grid is BORING, and never set foot there any more. I can't list my product for free, because this is a part-time job for me. And they seem to be ok with my prices as they are. I explained that these are furnishings, which go into homes and clubs, and that is part of the 3D experience, and also part of owning land for prims. When they log in, they are good to go, to maximize that experience, whether it be sitting on their sofa alone for quiet time or inviting friends over for a party, or for having fun with a club. Not sure how that ruins concurrency. They are going to spend X amount of time. Probably enjoy it more, if they have the goods they need for that when they arrive inworld for the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rene Erlanger Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Sorry Josh, I'm not going to respond to your messages....until you learn how to use the "Quote" button and break up your messages into readable paragraphs. I'm sure you have some valid points in those messages, its just too much of headache to de-cypher, as to which are my passages and which are yours.....just imagine how it is for other readers. It would give off the appearance of you being Schizophrenic .....making a statement on one the hand and then arguing against that very same point in your very next sentence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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