Morgaine Christensen Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 They would probably be very very happy they got something for their money, but have no clue what it was they received at that point. Would they stay after getting it? Probably so, there are achievable goals to reach; SL has no preset achieveable goals so to speak. Not to mention, after the initial 7 day "free" period, it cost 14.95 (or there abouts) to maintain an account. Everything else in that world is based on gold you make from quests or on items you gather or make through professions you train for by purchase. Unlike SL choices are limited. Nothing in WOW is free, you pay for it either via your monthly subscription fee and your hard work of questing/selling stuff. Even in WOW if you sell items at their Auction House, the house requires a deposit fee and takes a cut of the gold received on items sold. I think someone made the suggestion earlier, take the Freebies off the Marketplace; however, have an in-world sim where they can be freely distributed to new players with AV less than 30 days old. 30 Days is long enough to decide if you wish to stay in SL. Also, I think we need to go back to the old naming system. I think the "resident" names are just to confusing for folks. Freebies items could be made no copy, no modify, no transfer for demo purposes and name recognition. Make the place a teaching area about shopping, the economy, what the marketplace is. Folks can operate on items for 60-90 days on demo versions to see what the world is like before they invest their money. But, as some point, all those freebie accounts need to render into paying accounts...either they need to invest in buying items to make the world sustainable or they need to pay a monthly membership fee. I think that if land and tier prices were more reasonable where everyone could purchase a sim for 100.00 USD or less and pay no more than 50.00 a month tier you would see a return of folks from other fledgling worlds like SL. The problem is though, SL has always been billed as a Free Online World to play in, changing it now I think would be detrimental. SL needs to reimplement an Orientation Island where there are real helpers 24/7 to assist people with questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 If listing fees were imposed, I expect that would just make viable competing services that do not charge such fees, and the SLM would probably have to drop those fees in order to compete with those other services. Actually, though, I like this idea. If there were at least 2 other services that were dependent on getting things right rather than just acting as a supplementary revenue stream for something larger and more reliable, such services couldn't both be even worse than SLM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 exactly on your suggestions to lead people toward their interests. was hoping the social network system would help with that. I was dropping in event times and locations all day from twitter, but it just seems that not many people are using it....and I suspect that is because they feel a threat about it, as indicated from some of the threads and jiras and reading comments. most of that threat I suspect...is because it wasn't explained properly that very first week, and you've got to explain properly right upfront before someone gets bad taste in mouth. but it also goes against the grain for a large # of people. a limitation on the social network tool is that when my residential sim owner posts an event....I've got to copy and paste that info into a separate submission....which is fine, but not everyone will do that step - needs to be a button to click and share that info. but unfortunately...it appears that the new social networking system was a complete fail. I'm not waiting any longer on them adding an affiliate vendor thing to our stores, and just going to make a new av and do business with it. it will have to be separate business....and that's kinda stupid since I already had a brand. but it could be another year before they allow more than one brand to be sorted in a store. it would not be feasible at all to mix the two styles - would totally cancel out built brand. the fact they can't do that....darn shame. creative people here with multi-dimensions that could bust it out in that aspect right this minute. my control panel is not working. the only report that will pull up is listing enhancements and transactions, but I need to see top sellers and hits. several reported that is not working for them either, so assumed that was a universal problem. your reports for top sellers and hits is working? eta: Dartagan....I really do think that people are going to miss sales of moderately priced items if they set the lower priced items and freebie items in another section. many times I need something cheap to set in a display for photo - and while scouting that out, add a moderate to higher priced item that appeared in search to favorites for later date. an example of that would be when I needed a hot dog stand real cheap and ran across a fish and chips van that I saved for a while, then purchased last night...you can click on my pic tab below to see it. I doubt that I would have typed fish and chips van into a search.....ever. that happens all the time on textures, when only need one real quick...but the larger selections appear right there with the low priced ones...those get added to favorites and purchased at another time. I don't think that people are thinking that through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Medhue Simoni wrote: The primary demographic for that game is for people who are not allowed in SL, and have no other comparably creative world/game to goto. So, this is not a fair comparison at all. If the user could have better looking items, do you not think they would want them? I know two people who made an account in SL about four years ago. One is 29, the other is 45. The first one tried SL for a few weeks, but he gave up on it, because he didn't know anybody in SL and he could not convince his friends to join the platform. The second gave up after a few hours because he had no idea what he could do in SL. Both of them are active in Minecraft now, and spend there at least 6 hours a day. The first one joined Minecraft because some of his friends went there. The other joined Minecraft because it made him think of one of the first computergames he ever played. And both are at least as passionate about it, as I am about SL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WADE1 Jya Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I really like Dartagan's idea of parallel websites for different sectors. This would be much stronger system! If everyone had more space there would be far less infighting, blaming each other, unrest, & complaints (it proven in experiments, crowd the rats together and they will fight). One issue I introduced was the 2D linear structure of marketplace & how this is unnaturally hypercompetitive by design. Separate websites, as Dartagan suggests, would allow parallel success channels (or if Lindens are clever enough -- they just overlay these channels to inworld as an augmentation), & it gets away from the vertical stack of buried resources we see at present. Also, the relevency of Lucene needs a huge overhaul, you shouldn't search "pet cat" & get two solid pages of dogs and pet food listings. Nothing to do with freebies there, that is just ****-poor relevency! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaran Laval Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 ralph Alderton wrote: Chelsea, nearly 2 years ago I suggested and supported the idea of listing fees to reduce the amount of clutter and junk building up at the Martplace And 2 years ago I said SL will not and cannot grow in these circumstances and I'm very sad to say it but I was right. The grid is smaller, concurrency is less, user hours less etc The SUPERABUNDANCE of junk IS a problem and IS damaging the growth and popularity of Secondlife Not a popular opinion, not even considered a problem, but it's true none the less. The SUPERABUNDANCE of junk is hurting Secondlife and I'm not happy about it:matte-motes-crying: I trust you have evidence to backup this claim, you've done surveys and ran reports yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lasher Oh Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Oh dear Ralphy - banging that old worn out elitist drum again are ya? Didn't agree with then and don't agree with you now. But good to see you've still got that big wooden spoon for stirring the poo - nothing like a freebie storm to get folks all hot and bothered. ^L^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 WADE1 Jya wrote: If everyone had more space there would be far less infighting, blaming each other, unrest, & complaints (it proven in experiments, crowd the rats together and they will fight). When you have one cage that is too full and split it into two cages, you will soon have two cages that are too full. And the ones who are responsible for this is us, the creators. We will create no matter what, because we love to create. SL isn't growing for years now, it is rather slowly shrinking. But what has been growing all past three years is the number of items for sale. Virtual products are not consumed, they don't get spoiled, they stay brand new as at the first moment of buying. It is a mountain of items that keeps on growing and growing. And the bigger the mountain, the less visibility for each individual item. We work harder and we earn less, is the general experience, I guess. Ofcourse there are exceptions. There are still people who make more money then before, and there are also people who's business is not profitable anymore and who give up. It is not the freebies, it is not the marketplace, it is not Linden Lab. It is us, foolish creators, who keep creating while the market is shrinking. The more we follow our love for creating things, the more we dig our own graves. Your problem is not the freebie hunters or the structure of the marketplace. Your real problem is the merchants who sell in the same price category, in the same quality category, to the same target audience, in a world that is not growing along with the passion of it's creative community. Each new piece your fellow merchants produces is a nail to your grave. And each item you produce one to his. We need growth to solve this split. We need more people who love the beautifull or crazy stuff us rats make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 lol...you've not spent much time in the business world. this is not fighting. just discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 The freebie debate seems to be a go-to distraction whenever there's something else brewing to which someone would prefer you didn't direct your attention, such as the fact that a whole bunch of buyers are being set up to be robbed by borking prim rental regions and creating an epidemic of false delivery confirmations under the new listing mechanism. Which Linden's alt do you think ralph is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 The Ralph as a Linden Alt Theory has been around for some time The only debate that Ralph has is the freebie issue. He blames everything on freebies. He rarely participates in any other discussion about others' challenges, unless he can slide the freebie issue in. Ya'll actually should have a beer together. some bud bonding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Belated reply ... absolutely no problems with freebies and low cost mixed in with everything else, and I do see plenty of paths to them benefitting sales of other price ranges. Agree there as well. As a shopper, much prefer everything in one place, I don't care whether it's free or L$5000, I just want things that I'm looking for and those surprise finds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Absolutely, we've hit a ceiling and that's the main culprit for merchant growth. Wasn't so much promoting separate sites, if it's done right that same data is as easily integrated both in world, patched into social networking features, on individual web properties, etc. How and where it's implemented is a mashup thing. That was mostly referring to LL not providing sophisticated and sexy toolsets that people are looking for. It's not a good idea to develop one set of tools for merchants, and another set of tools for the music sector and throw that into one mixed bag ... that's a bug-fest in the making. Easier to separate out specific tools into sections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Let's see what he has to say about this: The reason that I recently finally resorted to box farming is the same reason that it did not work as prescribed. The region where I kept my box was borked, as were, I think, probably all other regions where prims space could be rented publicly (that's why it worked fine when I just went to other types of sims and attached the boxes to my AV, making SLM think I had rezzed them in those sims, but not when I rezzed boxes on actual prim rental sims). I think this time was either a test, or, hopefully, the residual effect of something that LL had managed to thwart with some success. The reason to bork all these regions and only these regions would be to produce an epidemic of a very new kind of false delivery confirmation on people's transaction screens, such as the one I documented; delivery confirmation for an item not present in any box functionally linked to SLM at the time of the order (which I think Dakota explained should similarly happen if backup boxes are in borked regions, as many were and would be). If the orders totaled 10L or over, they would just show as delivery failures, which is not only OK, it's a great distraction. Orders 9L or smaller (which get no LL commission) would show as delivered on the transaction screen (see my results on the other thread), but not on the order record. Depending upon who would respond to these tiny amounts not being paid, and how, the stage could then be set to reproduce this event, but with a piece of code activated that allows at least some of the money from orders with false delivery notification to go somewhere other than to the merchant or back to the buyer. Really, I barely noticed the weird order, myself. 9L or less may not have mattered to me by itself, had it actually been billed (I don't know, since the first buyer alleged apparently does not even exist to be contacted about this; good test protocol, there, eh). But if it could be stolen repeatedly from the buyers of a bunch of low-end merchants, especially merchants outside the US, it could really add up over a period of hours, days, or even longer, depending on how long LL might succeed in denying that such a thing could possibly happen. How about it, ralph? I at least know which Linden did the test orders before I got the incorrect explanation of the problem as "you did not synch". Was that you? Even if not, there must be an informational chain of finite length between that person and Dakota, so it's really just a question of time before there are just too many new coincidences, even for LL's security people to ignore. Maybe you better stop wasting time trying to get us to debate freebies. Maybe you better go erase that hipster 8-track or intentionally embarassing porn where you've cleverly hidden the piece of code that is supposed to make the money move. As for LL: you guys should already be working pretty hard to cover your asses liability-wise just for the things that can actually be proved at this point if necessary. You might as well add ralphie and his alts to the list of things to look into while you're at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 this is gonna be fun. ummm...maybe not understanding all the nuances of your conspiracy theory on this one, but if Ralph were Linden Alt stealing funds from the 9L sellers (and yeah the would be real productive).... then why does he want them out of the marketplace. unless.... he wants to corral them over to a special area so that his secret fund snatching code can be isolated and operate without any interference and be applied across the board more effectively.... do you suppose that his next proposal will be for a secret forum for the 9L sellers so that he can send in another alt and play hokus pokus mind games with them all day? hypnotize them perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 It may be just that the freebie argument is a reliable distraction. OTOH, if he can get merchants with freebies to up the price a little bit, but not too much, that makes more money to be diverted later when the diversion occurs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blot Brickworks Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Mickey Vandeverre wrote: an example of that would be when I needed a hot dog stand real cheap and ran across a fish and chips van that I saved for a while, then purchased last night...you can click on my pic tab below to see it. I doubt that I would have typed fish and chips van into a search.....ever. I do hope you have fun with my van.Thanks for the business... Cheers Blot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 having a blast! preparing for the day when the food channel gets here to announce the official race. going to do some trial runs before then. I put a plug in for you on twitter, and will add another on blog post. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blot Brickworks Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 LOL yes I saw it nice one ,thanks again.................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Vandeverre Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 you don't suppose that in between the 8-tracks and porn that Ralph is covering up a sabotage effort on the listing enhancements do you.... you know...like making them work really well for like only 2 people in forum.... ...diverting all the hits to the 9L sellers so that just quadruples the 9L takings.... ....pushing LL into the 200 million zone. holy cow. edited to correct spelling and to insert subliminal messages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrius Gothly Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Oooh .. Ooooh!! I just figured it out. Ralph is the reincarnated ghost of the spirit of the karma of M Linden .. come back to secretly sabotage all of us by planting conspiracy theories, bribing ex-Linden employees to randomly interrupt Magic Box communications .. and when we least expect it .. flood the LindeX with millions of copybotted counterfeit Linden Dollars (all selling for L$240/US$) We Are ....... DOOOOOOOOOOMED!! *shudders* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Not as such, no. One thing to consider, though, is that people who buy listing enhancements aren't going to be his target merchants anyway, because their prices are outside the range where LL will simply ignore possibly losing a commission. Such merchants also probably make a lot less use of the regions affected anyway, and so would be less likely to be affected at all in terms of items on SLM actually being available from a box somewhere. I'm not saying that the merchant demographic targeted (really customer demographic anyway) is simply a function of classism, incidentally also displayed by ralphie. I'm saying that to target such a demographic makes good sense from both a tactical and strategic standpoint. Tactical, because their way of interacting with SL and SLM makes these merchants easier targets; strategic because the Lindens could basically give a damn unless it actually affects their bottom line (if even then), and when the $hit hits the fan, the first thing that LL will do (as I have already demonstrated) is try to find a way to blame these merchants, themselves, for what is being done to their customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartagan Shepherd Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 But if I play it backwards I hear the number nine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeliefste Oh Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Cool brandname and slogan: ENIN, playing it backwards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Susanto Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 It's great that you all think what I say is nonsense. I can use that in my defense if any part of it turns out to be conclusively incorrect. OTOH, you might tell me which part anyone's going to disprove. Have you noticed how quiet Dakota has been today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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