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Mesh: do you really care?


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Oh I care about mesh but not a lot.

I look forward to it being really cool in a year or so, but there will first be many months of people tinkering with it and it will take even longer for me to get anywhere near understanding it.

What I AM excited about is the bigger size prims that they are releasing at the same time... or so they say.

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For some it's a new hobby inlcuding "new" CEO. At the moment i am not too interested.

If i understood right the current CEO came from a gaming company. The consequence is that his policies are alike. I'd rather prefer a more solid development road with things we really need rather than seeing newer versions of LL's fly around our ears. Every time i put in a ticket, LL services reply to try the latest viewer. But i am not intested in beta testing, i want to have fun so i went back to good old solid 1.23.5. With it i have been in a mesh enabled area and i could not see any problems sofar.

But like sculpties it will take a few years to see mesh used massively in SL. For the average user sculpties and mesh are a bridge too far. I also personally believe that the current development policies since the new CEO are not about what SL is truly about. With the hated official viewer2, too many things not really needed sofar LL has not been able to make a turnaround of the slight downtrend when it comes to actual users of SL.

This latter does bother me.

 

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I'm already a little perturbed how all of our avatars' skins, hair, clothing and accessories look so radically different to someone else depending on what windlight or graphics settings they have.  We want to present ourselves a certain way and on someone else's screen we might look like a deranged monkey telling ghost stories at a campfire.  :smileysad:

I'll continue using Phoenix for as long as I'm able and it doesn't bother me one bit that I might see the world wearing more and more boxes on their hips and heads.  In my opinion, mesh is simply another unnecessary monkey wrench in a machine already held together with duct tape and bailing wire.

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It's the reason I returned to Second Life, I know there is resistance to it, more in the case of how complex it is to understand but I think once we start seeing what can be done with it we will all enjoy the benefits of highly detailed models with less prim counts and more importantly .. less lag.

Its like asking the question, are you bothered about scuplties compared to prims, the difference is meshes compared to scuplties is a similiar comparison.

 

There are alot of restrictions with prims, they are expensive to build (in terms of prim count) and horribly in-efficient on lag, they show 'seams' everywhere and its like building houses with lego.

Scuplties are abit easier in that you can have a cushion that looks like a cushion, they only cost 1 prim in most cases but are laggier than prims, and are not practical for larger objects.

Meshes are almost complete freedom to build, you can have complex shapes included in your build, they perform very well and with a prim for prim comparison, they cost alot less for alot more. They also are textured inside the 3D programs that are used, and can be baked with shadows and realistic shading before they are even uploaded into second life.

 

The downside to meshes is that you need a version 2 viewer (um thats it)

 

You should start seeing some difference in the marketplace in terms of quality and prim costs once the roll out is complete

 

 

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No, I'm not interested, but then again, I'm not a builder or designer. So I don't think my lack of interest means much.

I'm in SL to socialize, and I don't see the new mesh changing anything about that.
(Probably the only change that would affect that would be more people online at the same time I am.)

If the new mesh clothes are good, then I will be buying them.

However, every time I read about the new mesh, I get very uncomfortable. It seems to be very complicated
and in some ways more restrictive than the clothes we have now.

Maybe the problem is that the people who understand it and are excited about it are not very good
at describing what excites them. I mean, they talk about "bones" and about how you can modify
clothes outside of SL (why?) and how the new mesh clothes will only fit specific avatar shapes.

All of that does not seem very exciting or interesting to me.  But then again, I probably misunderstand, so...

 

I was thinking today that maybe I ought to just avoid anything I see written about mesh, and just
wait for it to appear so I can see it.

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I agree with York Jessop. I'm interested in it, and all of the other new changes its bringing, too.

New physics parameters (friction, density, restitution, gravity, and density), physics types (none, prim, and convex hull), mesh itself, havok 2k10, 64m^3 prims, and so on.

I'm also really looking forward to more v2 viewers, as I do believe v2 itself is a superior code base almost all around. The thing I don't like about v2 is the radically different UI, but Firestorm is already making some good strides in that regard, and I hope they continue to focus on V2 rather than working on a now deprecated V1. 

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I myself prefer what is being referred to as Mesh since it's the way games are built.  In Unity 3D and and other development platforms, it all meshes.

The SL system to Game building would be like creating a plastic model car to creating a real jet plane.  Not even in the same league.

However, Mesh is for pro builders and not the best for a hobbyist as we see in SL.  Texture maps at the right resolution show us currently, today's users do not know how to build for performance.  Ad into this scripting and a very weak network of low resource servers and you have today's SL.

Now add into this very high poly wireframes and we have something that looks cool but can't perform. 

Sculpts suck as their LOD is hit and miss and meshes are better but I do see issues.  I will use them and will continue to use sculpts but all in moderation.  What i really want to see are Planes.  Just simple 2D planes.

 

 

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valerie Inshan wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

I will care when they make flexi mesh peni.

LMAO! :smileyvery-happy: Then maybe I will care too. /me winks at my partner: but not too flexi though. :smileytongue:

ZOMG! You so crazy Val! LOL! :matte-motes-big-grin-squint:

Oh ya. The question...I still don't really get what it's supposed to do for us or the extent to which it's going to change things, and furthermore, am far too lazy to read up on it. Would that be the same as "no"?

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Kascha Matova wrote:

ZOMG! You so crazy Val! LOL!
 :matte-motes-big-grin-squint:

Oh ya. The question...I still don't really get what it's supposed to do for us or the extent to which it's going to change things, and furthermore, am far too lazy to read up on it. Would that be the same as "no"?


 

Yes, I do believe that willful ignorance is the same as not caring.

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Jo Yardley wrote:

But aren't they still figuring out the prim count?

Yes if I can save prims, I'm very interested.

But I'll wait a little longer to see how it all changes and how the prim count get sorted.

Whatever gets me more prims is good.

Costs won't be raised, only lowered, though I don't think they'll lower too too much at this point. If you have a link-set of unscripted/non-physical boxs you can link them together and use convex hull physics to get half of the PE cost. Same with cylinders that have a normal radius or spheres that have a normal radius. For types other than those you won't always have less than the standard PE, so it won't be useful, but its still a good tool for the cases you can use it. If you use a physics type of none you can get even higher, actually and the prim-type/size makes less of a difference.

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York Jessop wrote:

It's the reason I returned to Second Life, I know there is resistance to it, more in the case of how complex it is to understand but I think once we start seeing what can be done with it we will all enjoy the benefits of highly detailed models with less prim counts and more importantly .. less lag.

Its like asking the question, are you bothered about scuplties compared to prims, the difference is meshes compared to scuplties is a similiar comparison.

 

There are alot of restrictions with prims, they are expensive to build (in terms of prim count) and horribly in-efficient on lag, they show 'seams' everywhere and its like building houses with lego.

Scuplties are abit easier in that you can have a cushion that looks like a cushion, they only cost 1 prim in most cases but are laggier than prims, and are not practical for larger objects.

Meshes are almost complete freedom to build, you can have complex shapes included in your build, they perform very well and with a prim for prim comparison, they cost alot less for alot more. They also are textured inside the 3D programs that are used, and can be baked with shadows and realistic shading before they are even uploaded into second life.

 

The downside to meshes is that you need a version 2 viewer (um thats it)

 

You should start seeing some difference in the marketplace in terms of quality and prim costs once the roll out is complete

 

 

You forgot the other major downside; they must be created using external software and in many cases (such as Maya, 3D Studio Max) those external programs are expensive, professional grade, and very complex tools far beyond the reach of the average resident.

I keep hearing mesh advocates say that there are free alternatives like Blender (which has a UI that makes v2's look like the paragon of good design) and Google SketchUp (less complex but, apparently has issues exporting to the Collada format that SL understands) but they have issues of their own. Bottom line is that this stuff isn't for the more casual builder. That means that the vast majority of things created in world will continue to be made using prims and sculpties, and there goes all the supposed efficiency out the window. Also with all the restrictions being placed on mesh it appears that it won't be used for large builds, the very things that could benefit from the supposed efficiency of mesh.

Personally I'm just going to ignore all the mesh hype and stick with Snowglobe. If there comes a point (maybe around a year from now) when mesh is being widely adopted, when more people beyond than the 3-D design pros are developing using it and when more of the major bugs get worked out of v2 then I'll begin to care.

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Actually   what concerns me is the Mesh has a variable Prim Equivalence value that is not intuitive, for example it was reported to me that a 25 prim build linked to a 2 PE Mesh suddenly became a 250 PE object.     There are also still unknowns or at least uncertainties about what happens when changes in PE suddenly over flow region/parcel prim count  limits.  All that having been said,  progress is our most important product.

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Its been said that its pretty much the same exact behavior as before when an object overflowers the limit/the object itself is returned and nothing else is affected. Also Andrew, I think, said that they were looking into making it so you couldn't do operations that would cause the object to go over the limit.

I have yet to have an issue with something turning super high PE from a link, unless it was like a torus with 4 revolutions and 720 twist, etc.

I've actually linked meshes to prims and had the overall PE go /down/ quite a bit.

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I'm not making high detail builds.  Just replacing existing prims..  =^-^=

So far I've made a picket fence that goes 1 prim over the original sculpt/box linksets I use on my land.  I'm willing to take that prim, given the picket tips don't settle into toothpick points. (^_^)

I've made a flight of 16 stairs with a logical PE of 0.45.  If I link 2 with 2 box prims to visually fill in the sides, they negate themselves and the 4-object linkset = 2 prims. (^_^)

I also have another flight of rounded steps that I've made for a friend with a logical PE of 0.55.  It replaces 3 cylinder prims and will become a linkset of 3 for every 4 I link together. (^_^)

I put screenshots and the Blender project for the rounded steps  up on my blog to demonstrate what I've done and how I done it.  (^_^)y http://darkly-cute.com/blog/?p=439

 

 

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Emascultion 1.jpg


valerie Inshan wrote:


Perrie Juran wrote:

I will care when they make flexi mesh peni.

LMAO! :smileyvery-happy: Then maybe I will care too. /me winks at my partner: but not too flexi though. :smileytongue:

We men have been emasculated too long in Second Life. 

 

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