RedZone Creator Jailed

[Peewee Musytari]

Didn`t see this posted already - Apologies if it has been.

http://dwellonit.taterunino.net/2011/08/01/redzone-creator-goes-to-prison/

[Chelsea Malibu]

I must say...YaY!  He was warned by everyone that what he was doing was illegal and he insisted it wasn't though he is just some kid working in his basement with no legal background.  I knew this guy was bad from his remarks and though this doesn't appear to be why he went to jail, I am not surprised at all.

It just goes to show you that when someone clearly shows you where you are breaking the law, you should listen, even if you are not in the country where it is a crime.

 

[Peewee Musytari]

True ..Its nice to see whatever the reason was, that his restrictions are keeping him away from computers for a while at least

[madman626 Fall]

Funny i heard he was back in sl under a new alt and had the next toy out LOL . Same has redzone but that just story telling there no real proof

[Void Singer]

none of his actions in SL were illegal, but the very fact that he was doing business at all online was... as a violation of the terms of his probation (and then stupidly lying about it, and being involved with another felon to top it off. side note, said felon was also banned from SL, but I am fairly certain has returned through a proxy).

at the time RZ was running, it was under LL's tacit approval, right up till it wasn't. everyone seems to want to forget that part, where LL chose to ignore the illusion of privacy we think we have. Yes LL changed their minds, with the combined pressure of some users outrage, and the discovery that he was a felon violating his parole they had little choice. It was either that or face a PR nightmare. In reality, nothing has changed much, except the systems doing the same things (coorelating SL avatars) are smaller, and less reliable because they have to hide from terms of service violations, but all the tools are still there, and in fact a few have improved.

 

so please, don't ever forget, LL holds quite a bit of responsibility for the entire time it ran, whether it worked or didn't, right or wrong, LL gave years of approval. then, only after it became large and noticeable and people began complaining did LL change it's mind.

some time after which some other policies where implemented internally also occurred... such as which lindens could communicate with the public, on what terms, and about what.... I'm guessing someone or another overstepped their bounds, more than once, and in unrelated incidents, and told residents one thing when legal may have decided another if they were even aware. I firmly suspect that the mass deletion of linden contact and personal information on the wiki was part of the fallout of that.

[Ceka Cianci]

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madman626 Fall wrote:

Funny i heard he was back in sl under a new alt and had the next toy out LOL . Same has redzone but that just story telling there no real proof

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there is something new that the GZ hud has been updated for..there will always be something around like this as long as there is a way to use something like it..i doubt it's Zboy..he wasn't the only one with a system like his..he was just the one that got the major attention over the others..

while Zboy got all that attention..so did the exploit..i'm sure there are many different versions..it sure wasn't Zboys original idea..he got it from others before him..he just made alt detection and information collecting and exposure more popular in a big way is all..

 

[Melita Magic]

RedZone exploited a loophole. It was never in the spirit of the TOS. It was pretty obvious to anyone except those who bought it, I guess, that it violated people's privacy which has always been against TOS as well as remotely monitoring other people's activity (where they went on their main or alts.)

Do we really have to have this conversation again, now? He's in jail. That isn't proof enough for some? They still want to defend Red Zone and the other spying apps?

ETA: that was actually to Void, although her avatar has always scared the poo outta me...so I didn't want to confront her directly. I guess now I took in a deep breath and did it anyway.

[Void Singer]

my avatar is scary? =S =(

 

I think you misunderstood my point; that's probably my fault. it's not about Z so much, it's about the fact that LL approved of it from the beginning, giving approval at more than one stage over years. But all the people that felt it was a breach of the "spirit" of TOS let LL off the hook at dismantling it. No one talks about it, no one mentions it, no one has seemed to even notice that LL had to go out of their way and change the TOS to ban it.

doesn't that strike you as a bit odd?

 

as for Z... :: shrug :: he screwed up, and got himself in trouble with the law.... but being arrested for speeding isn't proof a person is an axe murderer or a drug dealer (or vice versa), so no, I don't take that as proof that Z did anything illegal in regards to SL. if he had, I'm quite sure the fed would have loved to add another charge or three. And that has nothing to do with what I think of the system.

[Ceka Cianci]

i can't remember what changed in the TOS..was it a change or something they just had to spell out for people??

it's been awhile since all thsi went on so i'm rusty on the detals since there were so many of them back then hehehehe

 

ETA: i remember now where the CS had changed..all they did was make it a little clearer than what is was..

alts were considered  RL information or a users private information unless someone had made it known on their public profile ..so all LL did was add to show it fell under the first part of the disclosure rl information secrtion..

it's something that already fell under that section..it just wasn't written out..a lot of the changes were things that were just not written out..so LL pretty much had to spell it out for some people..

----------

here is the 2010 version which had been pretty much the same up until they added to it this year..

Disclosure

Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Life experience. Sharing personal information about a fellow Resident --including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, and real-world location beyond what is provided by the Resident in the First Life page of their Resident profile is a violation of that Resident's privacy. Remotely monitoring conversations, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without consent are all prohibited in Second Life and on the Second Life Forums. 

 

and here is the updated version with the updates in red..

Disclosure

Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Life experience. Sharing personal information about your fellow Residents without their consent -- including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, alternate account names, and real-world location beyond what is provided by them in their Resident profile -- is not allowed. Remotely monitoring conversations in Second Life, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without the participants' consent are all prohibited.


[Chelsea Malibu]

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Void Singer wrote:

none of his actions in SL were illegal

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I would be careful in making a definitive statement like this.  This falls under the category of Digital Surveillance which you may want to look into further.  I would love to litigate this with you.

[Dogboat Taurog]

apparently zfire zue, aka mike prime, refused to show his probationer the contents of his computer.

http://slnewser.blogspot.com/2011/05/update-on-zfire-xue.html

 

[Ceka Cianci]

i don't think anyone actually has facts as to why he was banned..

it could be for a few reasons...

like getting gang AR'd  for having it in his sim..

it also could have been for relisting and relisting his productin market place.. let alone  listing it in other ratings besides adult..the blood and exploding bodies i think put it in an adult catagory..

there could have been lots of other reasons as well..it's a grab bag of guesses since there wasn't an announcement since him being banned would not really be any of our business in LL's eyes..

also if i remember right the quickware guy went first even though he came after RZ and i think gone before the CS change..

don't quote me on that though because remembering a timeline on all this is groggy for me..things have to jar it loose for it to come back to me  hehehe..i would have to look at the huge thread on slu to see for sure..and i'm not about to tackle that thread any time soon..or threads i should say since it had to be put into two threads it grew so big LOL

 

[Void Singer]

yeah, it's the addition of alternate account names that clinched it.

 

@Chelsea:
it's pretty well covered territory in California (and most US) law, under the auspices of monitoring private property, and public information sharing. RL repositories of similar information led the way there. Digital Surveilance would only kick in for instance of non-public monitoring of targeted individuals. Regardless, it's now against TOS at any level.

@Dogboat:
actually it was "all computers he had access to" which probably included websites (there were three IIRC). the coupled charges give it away... which means dummy handed them his personal computer, but didn't tell them about others he had access to (and lied about it), and they found them anyways through his box and his ISP's records.

@Ban reason:
He was temp banned when he didn't comply in time to a request to remove certain features, when he did, he was unbanned. After it was discovered that certain features were still available through different paths he was banned again, and then when the video got out his account, and all associated accounts were hardware banned pending investigation of password exploits involving the RZ website. To my knowledge none were ever found, (at a minimum that would be additional charges for conspiracy to commit fraud at the very least, and his dumb arse would be locked up tight). most of it can be figured out from various posts he made (jira, RZ forums, etc).

 

do I think he deserves to be locked up? yes. he committed fraud, was on probation, and violated it. do the crime, do the time.

 

I still don't see why people are so cheerful about that because they didn't like the system he ran, but those same people don't hold no animosity towards LL which approved it for years knowing full well what it did.

 

[Ceka Cianci]

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Void Singer wrote:

yeah, it's the addition of alternate account names that clinched it.

 

@Chelsea:

it's pretty well covered territory in California (and most US) law, under the auspices of monitoring private property, and public information sharing. RL repositories of similar information led the way there. Digital Surveilance would only kick in for instance of non-public monitoring of targeted individuals. Regardless, it's now against TOS at any level.

@Dogboat:

actually it was "all computers he had access to" which probably included websites (there were three IIRC). the coupled charges give it away... which means dummy handed them his personal computer, but didn't tell them about others he had access to (and lied about it), and they found them anyways through his box and his ISP's records.

@Ban reason:

He was temp banned when he didn't comply in time to a request to remove certain features, when he did, he was unbanned. After it was discovered that certain features were still available through different paths he was banned again, and then when the video got out his account, and all associated accounts were hardware banned pending investigation of password exploits involving the RZ website. To my knowledge none were ever found, (at a minimum that would be additional charges for conspiracy to commit fraud at the very least, and his dumb arse would be locked up tight). most of it can be figured out from various posts he made (jira, RZ forums, etc).

 

do I think he deserves to be locked up? yes. he committed fraud, was on probation, and violated it. do the crime, do the time.

 

I still don't see why people are so cheerful about that because they didn't like the system he ran, but those same people don't hold no animosity towards LL which approved it for years knowing full well what it did.

 

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ya i forgot about that video..see how out of touch with all this i am? hehehe

i'm not cheering bad or good for zfire..i'm not putting much energy in any of this in either direction..the whole thing was draining and led to an early summer break for me..i haven't even read those blogs that all this is coming from..

i had my fill of all the irony that was going on back then that i could spit out a frying pan for the egg thread hehehehe

 i was very upset with LL..not only knowing it had been going on..but after they saw the uproar they still took their sweet time..

to me that was the most frustrating part of it all..still the ability for the same exact systems is still there..so really they still haven't done a thing about it but get rid of a couple users and their systems they created..

 

[Dogboat Taurog]

i was talking to a guy the other day, told me zfires gf is still in SL.

well he assumed it was his gf.

its another zfire anyway.

[Dogboat Taurog]

i was talking to a guy the other day, told me zfires gf is still in SL.

well he assumed it was his gf.

its another zfire anyway.

[Ceka Cianci]

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Dogboat Taurog wrote:

i was talking to a guy the other day, told me zfires gf is still in SL.

well he assumed it was his gf.

its another zfire anyway.

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i remember seeing a profile in the GZ group that someone made that tried hard to make it look like they were zfire..

this person came up to a GZ member  just hoping they would check out the profile so they would go back to the group to get them all excited hehehe

a few of us were like..ok that would be the last thing he would do is come back showing he is zfire..

it was just someone trying to get a rise out of the group is all..it was good for some giggles  hehehe

 

as far as his GF..i don't think anything really ever happened to her..but i'm not gonna say for sure ..because  i am so out of touch with details that i can't remember unless reminded hehehe

[Void Singer]

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

as far as his GF..i don't think anything really ever happened to her..but i'm not gonna say for sure ..because  i am so out of touch with details that i can't remember unless reminded hehehe

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 her accounts were banned also, but I have good reason to believe she's back as well. Dunno what if anything she's up to, don't much care either. didn't know her more than seeing her on radar in one of my regular regions a few times.

[Ceka Cianci]

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Void Singer wrote:

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Ceka Cianci wrote:

as far as his GF..i don't think anything really ever happened to her..but i'm not gonna say for sure ..because  i am so out of touch with details that i can't remember unless reminded hehehe

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 her accounts were banned also, but I have good reason to believe she's back as well. Dunno what if anything she's up to, don't much care either. didn't know her more than seeing her on radar in one of my regular regions a few times.

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i am just gonna count it as a blessing that i can't remember all this stuff from back then so easily..hehehehe

not that it is going to get a rise out of me either way remembering it..i think i am at the" i could not care less either way phase" as well lol

it's more relaxing this way and burns less daylight ..hehehehe

[Vladi Hazelnut]

Kind of curious what his orginal criminal act was, being from what I read he went to jail for violation his parole, among other things that they dropped. I wonder what he did originally that got him in trouble. Obviously from the terms of his parole/probation it was some sort of computer fraud. Could have been something else though.

And having contacted with two other known felons, both with the three felony charges. Um what happened to the 3 strikes your out thing? Guess it depends on the felonies you commit.

 

[Void Singer]

wire fraud.... some scheme involving mail fraud and money orders. you can read some about it in the appeal linked from Tateru's site.

and yes, 3 strikes laws vary both by state AND specific crime (and also generally don't cover federal offenses)

[Dak Deed]

You know i see you people slamming redzone left adn right. Though GreenZone is violating sl rules as well and is still allowed because of the vocal few who troll the forums. There is a list of people who used redzone.. even if it was just teh test out model... that we are bashed on and listed and defamed etc on. Asking to be removed from the list in as nice a way as possible.. we are then accused ot threatening the runner of greenzone and that webpages owners with violence.. when no where was there anything but please take me off the list.. i was only using the test out version. There is a real problem with griefers in sl.. and then when banned comming in on alts. SL either needs to allow us a lagit way to track alts when banning or when we ban someone it bans their ip. I wold prefere banning someone by ip when we ban their avatar and only on sl's side it knows the ip address. Running a club u would be amazed at how many idiots and griefers I have to ban then they start coming in on alts and causing problems. One guy I know I have banned him and 8 alts of his. He runs a rival club.. and dont say report it to linden labs... He was.. he is still in game.. even though he was griefing.. he stood on the ocean and fiilled our sim with blocks.... to the point it crashed our sim. So give me a solution that yoiu greenzone nuts would approve of other than me standing no stop banning people.

[Void Singer]

while I sympathize with your problem, it no longer matters what use a person put any such system to, because such systems are banned, and now specifically against TOS. LL has decided not to do anything to address the problem themselves, and removed the only stop gap methodology for handling it.

in short... you are screwed, as is anyone in the same boat. but this probably isn't the thread to discuss it in. The only people that can do anything effective about it now are LL. please consider this a request not to start this particular fire, as the flames aren't going to do any good, or serve any purpose here.

[Sin OHanlon]

So your telling me its ok for someone to ruin your game experience when you want to get on an alt and go look at thing you have never seen before.  regardless if LL allowed it at first or not ,  just like laws in  various nations , things changed, tne scope of what he was doing also changed.  he simple ruined peoples gaming experience. Therefore that made it illegal just like if it was real life and something was legal till it affected the populous then it becomes illegal. So those of you who are upset redzone is gone think about this. What happens if it was here and one day you just wanted peace and wanted to get away, your precious redzone would not have allowed that. Yes yes i know it makes it easier for copy botters to get your hard earned work, that in my book is wrong, but that does not impact LL as much as millions of people  upset over privacy and deciding to not place second life. Grow  up boys and girls real life politics in second life is here to stay....Viva La Revolutiion!

[Ceka Cianci]

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Sin OHanlon wrote:

So your telling me its ok for someone to ruin your game experience when you want to get on an alt and go look at thing you have never seen before.  regardless if LL allowed it at first or not ,  just like laws in  various nations , things changed, tne scope of what he was doing also changed.  he simple ruined peoples gaming experience. Therefore that made it illegal just like if it was real life and something was legal till it affected the populous then it becomes illegal. So those of you who are upset redzone is gone think about this. What happens if it was here and one day you just wanted peace and wanted to get away, your precious redzone would not have allowed that. Yes yes i know it makes it easier for copy botters to get your hard earned work, that in my book is wrong, but that does not impact LL as much as millions of people  upset over privacy and deciding to not place second life. Grow  up boys and girls real life politics in second life is here to stay....Viva La Revolutiion!

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it was never allowed to out anyones alternate account unless the user gave permission to out them...it was always against the TOS..Alternate accounts are and were even under the old TOS considered a users personal information..

so anyone thinking that RZ was ever compliant when it was detecting alts were not understanding  what personal user information was..

all LL did was put alternate accounts into the section of the rule after personal information "INCLUDING" to show those that could not see that alternate accounts were already a users personal information..

now if you get banned from LL and show up in sl on an Alt..then you would be breaking the TOS..