need help with LeLutka EvoX eyes

[CaerolleClaudel]

OK, going a bit nuts here. I would ask for help in the LeL group, but I don't think I could explain this in text so I am asking here so I can add pictures.

A couple weeks ago when I set up my head, I struggled with getting the eyes to look right. I could select the color I wanted from the 12 eye colors under the RIGHT BOTH LEFT buttons, but would have an eye showing behind the eye I wanted with the eye rolled back in the head; see below with LeL eye added for overlaid eyes and with LeL eye removed to show the eye that is already there. I am assuming this is the system avi eye?

 

When I struggled with this before, I thought I finally got it work by selecting the eye color I wanted and then BAKES ON MESH. One way or another, perhaps by accident, I got the color I wanted and the weird eye in the back was covered.

 

Lovely! Now I want to change the eye color to dark brown, but if I select the eye color in the first picture and then BAKES ON MESH, I get green eyes again and not the brown ones.

If I add the alpha layer + ALPHA ( BOM Head + Body - APPLIER Eyes ), I can get the applier version, as shown below, with the eye in the back blanked out (used green for comparison with the BOM eyes). However the colors are not as rich and the lovely details are not there, so I would like to get the BOM way to work for the dark brown eyes.

 

Could anyone tell me what I am doing wrong, and how to get the eye color I want? I would appreciate any help I could get!

Thanks!

[CaerolleClaudel]

OK, did a web search, which is what i guess I should have done in the first place. Apparently the colors in the HUD are strictly applier colors. When BOM is selected, it seems that the color of the system eyes is used. Which, yeah, that is how BOM kinda works I guess, but I thought like with skins and other things something else could be baked over the system whatever.

Now I am thinking that my system eyes are this green that shows up, so maybe I need to get a different set of system eyes?? Can you even buy those things? I thought perhaps there were eye tattoo layers or something, but am not finding something like that on the MP.

[Stephanie Misfit]

33 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

If I add the alpha layer + ALPHA ( BOM Head + Body - APPLIER Eyes ), I can get the applier version, as shown below, with the eye in the back blanked out (used green for comparison with the BOM eyes). However the colors are not as rich and the lovely details are not there, so I would like to get the BOM way to work for the dark brown eyes.

It sounds like you need to buy some new eyes, the default eyes in the Lelutka HUD are not what you are looking for. Most good eye designers sell packs with both BOM and applier versions included, maybe go out and demo some to find eyes you like.

[CaerolleClaudel]

The eyes that came with the head are both BOM and applier themselves. I am just trying to figure out how to get a texture BOM'd to the eyes. I have not idea how to see them, maybe remove all the mesh stuff, but I am thinking my system eyes much be green, and that texture is currently being applied when I select BOM. But wow, do people still even sell system eyes? Or can you get a texture of some other sort to BOM onto the eyes?

If you get the 3rd party BOM/applier sets, where does the texture come from that gets applied to the BOM version? I think that is the answer to my problem with the LeL eyes.

I appreciate the advice, I will have a look at some 3rd party eyes.

[CaerolleClaudel]

OK, so I grabbed a new avi from SL ('Choose an avatar') and use the system eye from that avi; the eye color changed when the I set the LeL eyes to BOM mode. I guess if I want to use BOM mode I need to grab some system eyes in the colors I want? Insane. This whole system is insane...

[CaerolleClaudel]

Finding stuff in MP would be a lot easier, for me at least, if they did not list every single individual version of stuff, and instead showed the versions when you opened a general page for that item.

[Rowan Amore]

24 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I am just trying to figure out how to get a texture BOM'd to the eyes.

The eyes in the HUD are applier eyes.  Every time you turn ON BoM, you turn OFF the applier eyes.  If you want old style system eye (BoM), use NO alpha and then turn on BoM.  Whatever system eyes you are currently wearing will then show perfectly fine.

Most places that sell eyes sell both types in their packs.  They include an applier and the system eyes.  Often, they also include their own mesh eyes.  Ignore those.

People who like to have eyes with one color on one and another on the other, will use applier.  Can't really do that with BoM.

[Rowan Amore]

Search IKON eyes.  He has a lovely group gift out now.  Avi-Glam has great eyes too.  

[CaerolleClaudel]

4 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said:

The eyes in the HUD are applier eyes.  Every time you turn ON BoM, you turn OFF the applier eyes.  If you want old style system eye (BoM), use NO alpha and then turn on BoM.  Whatever system eyes you are currently wearing will then show perfectly fine.

Most places that sell eyes sell both types in their packs.  They include an applier and the system eyes.  Often, they also include their own mesh eyes.  Ignore those.

People who like to have eyes with one color on one and another on the other, will use applier.  Can't really do that with BoM.

Ah, ok, you can still buy system eyes, then. As you imply, I don't think I need a different eye, I just need a source of high-quality system eyes for use with BOM, or a some high-quality textures with an applier for the LeL EvoX eyes. I am amazed that the applier textures that come with the LeL head are not higher quality; they just look like mush to me, compared with close-up photos I see of other people's avis, which have such deep, rich color and amazing detail in the irises.

Thx for the explanation and thanks for the vendor recs!

[Roxy Couturier]

I use applier eyes, the way to 'get rid' of the eye behind the eye is to grab some free applier eyes and one of them should have an eye alpha that you can add. then only the lelutka mesh eyes will show.

I'll send you some LMs to shops that I know have one included with their packs.

Edited May 15 by Roxy Couturier
words.. words are a thing..

[CaerolleClaudel]

3 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

I use applier eyes, the way to 'get rid' of the eye behind the eye is to grab some free applier eyes and one of them should have an eye alpha that you can add. then only the lelutka mesh eyes will show.

I'll send you some LMs to shops that I know have one included with their packs.

Thx, Roxy!

My head actually came with an alpha layer that works fine to blank out the system eyes and nothing else. I just don't like the textures that came with my head, and would like to find some different ones, hopefully with more detail and color.

[Charalyne Blackwood]

I make my own BOM eyes. While I can't shade them independently, it's only an upload fee, plus I can do things I haven't seen on MP (yet?) Wishing I could make them into appliers so I can rock different colors...

[Shiloh Lyric]

There are often really nice eyes on sale during the Weekend sales. Some places to check out would be Sequoia, Avi-Glam, E U P H O R I C, Lotus, Ikon (doesn't participate in sales but really awesome eyes), Gloom, Song and a few others I can't think of offhand. I think all of them include both applier and BOM versions, but you'll have to double-check.

[MrsSeren]

I use S H I M M for my day-to-day look, but I use them or Gloom for cosplay.

[CaerolleClaudel]

4 hours ago, Shiloh Lyric said:

There are often really nice eyes on sale during the Weekend sales. Some places to check out would be Sequoia, Avi-Glam, E U P H O R I C, Lotus, Ikon (doesn't participate in sales but really awesome eyes), Gloom, Song and a few others I can't think of offhand. I think all of them include both applier and BOM versions, but you'll have to double-check.

Wow, thx for the recs! I have found several good vendors through recs here and also from @Roxy Couturier in-world.

I bought a fatpack of A-G eyes last night, and have learned a lot about how BOM works with eyes; I stupidly thought the system avi eyes just got covered up and some texture or another was used for BOM, but clearly I forgot how BOM works. However, @Rowan Amore turned the light bulb on for me, and now the eye packages from vendors make sense to me: there *are* separate textures, but those get applied with an applier, not baked on (A-G even has a HUD that works directly with the LeL eyes, really nice!!!).

In the end I like the way the BOM system works; I only shop eyes that have the system eyes included, just leave BOM enable on my head, and then can just Wear different eyes and have them take effect immediately instead of having to Add a HUD and apply textures. Perhaps there is an advantage of using applier textures instead of BOM and system eyes, but until I find that out for sure I will stick with the BOM approach.

I am pretty slow on the uptake, and only got a clue about eye sockets by working with the vendor eyes. Sure, that was staring me in the face the whole time I was looking at head skins, and even in the LeL HUD; the inside of the eyelids, and esp the corner of my eyes looked really nasty, like raw meat (sorry), while all the picture of the skins and the picture of the eye in the LeL HUD looked really nice, like the head skin wrapped around the eyelid. Reader, that is not the case, yet another ad hoc kludge has to be implemented, essentially applying skin/make-up to that area. So now I have a set of basic eye socket make-up skins and another that blends a bit with make-up.

I just wish that someone would write a full guide on all the steps to set up an avi and then the body and head vendors could all reference that. I made another post a couple weeks ago asking for guidance on using BOM heads, and got some links, but I still don't know of a single place that tells you how to put a complete avi together from scratch. That isn't saying much, maybe there is a good source, or multiple ones, but I had to more-or-less figure it all out the hard way, problem solving pretty much every step of the way. If a lot of kind and knowledgeable people had not helped me along the way, I would have never been able to do it.

Sorry this got so long, thanks for the recs!!

[CaerolleClaudel]

1 hour ago, MrsSeren said:

I use S H I M M for my day-to-day look, but I use them or Gloom for cosplay.

@Roxy Couturier also suggested SHIMM! I got a Demo eye package there last night, and it is in my folder of 'stuff to get.'

Thx!

[Shiloh Lyric]

1 hour ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I am pretty slow on the uptake, and only got a clue about eye sockets by working with the vendor eyes. Sure, that was staring me in the face the whole time I was looking at head skins, and even in the LeL HUD; the inside of the eyelids, and esp the corner of my eyes looked really nasty, like raw meat (sorry), while all the picture of the skins and the picture of the eye in the LeL HUD looked really nice, like the head skin wrapped around the eyelid. Reader, that is not the case, yet another ad hoc kludge has to be implemented, essentially applying skin/make-up to that area. So now I have a set of basic eye socket make-up skins and another that blends a bit with make-up.

 

You can use that option, but you can also change the lacrimal and eye socket in the Lelutka HUD to more match your skin tone. It can even be black, if you want it to blend with a black eyeliner, or look like you rimmed the inside of your eyelid with black liner. I change mine often, based on whatever skin tone I'm using. If it's pale, I want a paler lacrimal area, if I'm tan, I want it darker, etc. it just a click on the HUD.

[CaerolleClaudel]

47 minutes ago, Shiloh Lyric said:

You can use that option, but you can also change the lacrimal and eye socket in the Lelutka HUD to more match your skin tone. It can even be black, if you want it to blend with a black eyeliner, or look like you rimmed the inside of your eyelid with black liner. I change mine often, based on whatever skin tone I'm using. If it's pale, I want a paler lacrimal area, if I'm tan, I want it darker, etc. it just a click on the HUD.

I think I must be missing something here. I would think that is done in the HD window? However, I have never been able to get any of that to apply; see the photo below (I used black so it should be obvious). I guess I am doing something wrong somewhere...

Also, SL seems to have all these little things that come to bite me constantly; now I cannot get the 'raw meat' look back. I took off all my eye make-up, the eye socket stayed skin colored. In fact, when I took off the make-up layers and the face updated, now the gray/updating area includes the eye socket, even though the eye socket did not change previously. I thought perhaps I accidentally had some make up still applied, but Current Outfit shows none that I can tell. I then thought perhaps I needed to Replace the outfit with one for which I had not used the eye socket fix and then back to the one I have been working on all afternoon, nope, still there. Then I rebooted Firestorm; still there. And now when I add eye shadow (see photo below) the eye shadow seems to also take care of the eye socket.

 

Side rant, I think the thing that drives me about the craziest about SL is that I fiddle with the camera to get the view I want, and then if I want to do a Save or Save As so I can capture several variations, as soon as I hit Edit Outfit the camera jumps far behind me and too far away and then I have to fiddle around yet again to get it back where I need it. Why can't the camera just stay where the ***** it is??? I waste soooo much time fiddling with the damn camera. 😡😡😡

ETA: In the end, however it happened, at least I do not seem to have to worry about the 'raw meat' issue lol. Famous last words ofc lol.

Thx for the help!!!

Edited May 15 by CaerolleClaudel
add another paragraph

[Rowan Amore]

Addressing the camera.  Use the Firestorm built in pose stand Under Avatar in the top menu.  Then, in preferences, View, Turn off Appearance.  I always lock my camera onto my head if I'm editing that.  I can save and it keeps the camera locked there.  

You do not want to automatically pose avatar during editing.  Use the built in pose stand instead.

 

Automatically pose avatar during (select one or more):

Build/Edit: When selected, the camera automatically moves to center on the object you're editing.

Appearance: (set by default) When selected, the camera automatically zooms in on your avatar when you enter Appearance mode. It also automatically focuses as you select different Body Parts and Clothes tabs. Deselect this to leave the camera where it is.

Edited May 15 by Rowan Amore

[CaerolleClaudel]

1 hour ago, Rowan Amore said:

Addressing the camera.  Use the Firestorm built in pose stand Under Avatar in the top menu.  Then, in preferences, View, Turn off Appearance.  I always lock my camera onto my head if I'm editing that.  I can save and it keeps the camera locked there.  

You do not want to automatically pose avatar during editing.  Use the built in pose stand instead.

 

Automatically pose avatar during (select one or more):

Build/Edit: When selected, the camera automatically moves to center on the object you're editing.

Appearance: (set by default) When selected, the camera automatically zooms in on your avatar when you enter Appearance mode. It also automatically focuses as you select different Body Parts and Clothes tabs. Deselect this to leave the camera where it is.

Yes, I use the Pose Stand when working on accessories such as skin, make-up, all that. I only use Edit Outfit when doing Save or Save As on an outfit, and do not use the Pose Stand then. I also do not use the Pose Stand when doing Edit Shape.

I did not  know about the Preferences checkbox. I only recently learned that I could turn off the images in Edit Shape to make changing the values simpler. Thx for the advice!! I kind of doubt I will live long enough to learn all the tricks of making SL work more easily.

[Roxy Couturier]

8 hours ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

 Perhaps there is an advantage of using applier textures instead of BOM and system eyes, but until I find that out for sure I will stick with the BOM approach.

I generally run my graphics at high/ultra to full ultra. The lel eyes with an applier look more realistic imo. (You can also get the old lelutka omega kit and be able to use omega applier eyes as well.) When I've tried using system/bom eyes they appear flat and don't reflect lights. When you see it, you can't unsee it..

I do like the added system eyes in packages, I wear the one I've applied so i don't need to remember which eye set I've applied.

 

[Roxy Couturier]

9 hours ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

Wow, thx for the recs! I have found several good vendors through recs here and also from @Roxy Couturier in-world.

To follow up and share these great stores, I recommended SHIMM (as Seren did), ARTE, lovelysweet, Muse, Yoshi, Repulse and The Stringer Mausoleum.

[CaerolleClaudel]

3 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

I generally run my graphics at high/ultra to full ultra. The lel eyes with an applier look more realistic imo. (You can also get the old lelutka omega kit and be able to use omega applier eyes as well.) When I've tried using system/bom eyes they appear flat and don't reflect lights. When you see it, you can't unsee it..

I do like the added system eyes in packages, I wear the one I've applied so i don't need to remember which eye set I've applied.

 

I run mine on the notch between High and Ultra.

I will have to take another look at system/BOM vs applier for the same eyes from the same package. I like the system/BOM because I change eyes a lot, and I like to just be able to use Wear and have the eyes change instantly, even if the eyes are in totally different packages from different vendors.

The LeL applier eyes that come with the head just look dull to me, and do not have the detail I want in the irises. They may be more realistic though, I dunno; IRL we have a LOT of detail in our irises, and the colors seem richer than in the LeL eyes. But I certainly won't argue the point, I probably just have weird tastes and expectations lol.

I use Current Outfit a lot, because I use pieces and parts from all over my inventory. I do have it very organized, at least according to what works for me. I may be misunderstanding you, though, sorry...

[CaerolleClaudel]

7 minutes ago, Roxy Couturier said:

To follow up and share these great stores, I recommended SHIMM (as Seren did), ARTE, lovelysweet, Muse, Yoshi, Repulse and The Stringer Mausoleum.

Thx Roxie, I did not think to share all the ones you rec'd. I did visit them all, but have yet to visit all of the ones that @Shiloh Lyric suggested. I have been on a mission for make-up today.

[Roxy Couturier]

51 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I will have to take another look at system/BOM vs applier for the same eyes from the same package. I like the system/BOM because I change eyes a lot, and I like to just be able to use Wear and have the eyes change instantly, even if the eyes are in totally different packages from different vendors.

applier eyes change just as quickly. Plus you have the option to have different eyes/colors for each eye with the appliers.

51 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

The LeL applier eyes that come with the head just look dull to me, and do not have the detail I want in the irises. They may be more realistic though, I dunno; IRL we have a LOT of detail in our irises, and the colors seem richer than in the LeL eyes. But I certainly won't argue the point, I probably just have weird tastes and expectations lol.

Well, you're judging how the boilerplate eyes look that come with lelutka in the box, as it were. Other makers have way more detail and better looking appliers imo. YMMV.

51 minutes ago, CaerolleClaudel said:

I use Current Outfit a lot, because I use pieces and parts from all over my inventory. I do have it very organized, at least according to what works for me. I may be misunderstanding you, though, sorry...

As I said, I use applier eyes. Wearing the system/bom eyes 'marks' which eyes I'm using. I have a few hundred appliers for eyes. If, say, I apply my 'Demon' eyes, I'll wear the corresponding system/bom eyes as well. So if I save that outfit I'll know which eyes to apply.

Edit: Another benefit of using the mesh eyes is that you can make them glow for further effects.

Edited May 16 by Roxy Couturier
added a thought