Order of deletion when too many prims

[animats]

What's the priority order for returning objects when new objects are rezzed or enter?

I know that the parcel owner has priority over non-owners, but what are the rules involving groups and vehicles? Does membership in a land group add priority?

(Why? There have been some unexpected returns in a big roleplay sim with complicated group ownership.)

[Love Zhaoying]

I hope the answer is "LIFO"..

[Aishagain]

That, sadly has not been my experience.  I too would like to know how it is arranged because it appears utterly random to me.

[animats]

If you're an outsider, not the parcel owner, and you try to bring something onto the parcel, such as a vehicle, you get a "parcel full" error. That works fine.

If the parcel owner rezzes something and there are non-parcel-owner objects present, it seems that non-owner objects are returned to make this possible.

Does setting "Locked" matter?

Any known bugs in this area?

Not sure how this interacts with land groups. It's become a minor problem in New Babbage, which is having a building boom. On four recent occasions reported by two users, some objects have been returned unexpectedly as a side effect of unrelated activity. No parcel was anywhere near close to its normal LI limit.

 

 

[Qie Niangao]

14 hours ago, animats said:

If the parcel owner rezzes something and there are non-parcel-owner objects present, it seems that non-owner objects are returned to make this possible.

I don't think so. This sounded way more elaborate than anything I've seen happen, so I had to get in-world to try it, and I can't figure out a way to make it happen: it just blocks rezzing by the owner if it would overflow the parcel's Land Impact, even if more than enough of that excess is from prims owned by others, not set to the land group, that would be autoreturned eventually anyway.

(That's on individually owned land, and rezzing directly from inventory. If there's some other situation involved, I can probably set up to try that, too.)

[Aishagain]

3 hours ago, Qie Niangao said:

I don't think so. This sounded way more elaborate than anything I've seen happen, so I had to get in-world to try it, and I can't figure out a way to make it happen: it just blocks rezzing by the owner if it would overflow the parcel's Land Impact, even if more than enough of that excess is from prims owned by others, not set to the land group, that would be autoreturned eventually anyway.

(That's on individually owned land, and rezzing directly from inventory. If there's some other situation involved, I can probably set up to try that, too.)

That was not my experience. I accidentally exceeded my homestead's LI capacity a little while ago.

The item I was attempting to rez successfully resolved but several of my and a co-owner's items were summarily returned (via lost and found) and a couple of "no copy" items just vanished irretrievably.

A couple of other items disappeared from the sim only to return unannounced several days later, in peculiar locations under the navmesh (ground).

One, a scripted wandering bird, was devoid of its original scripts and was resultingly inert.

Go figure, as they say.

 

ETA:  To be accurate, I was editing a regular prim by using the edit tools to make a sectional cut which caused the LI to shoot up hugely, so whether that had some effect I don't know.

Edited February 23 by Aishagain
additional info

[animats]

5 hours ago, Aishagain said:

ETA:  To be accurate, I was editing a regular prim by using the edit tools to make a sectional cut which caused the LI to shoot up hugely, so whether that had some effect I don't know.

Ah, right. That's a way to get a sudden jump in land impact. If you have something made of complex prims and then link it to something with new accounting, or materials, or anything, the LI goes from 1 to roughly the value it would have if made of mesh.

Edited February 23 by animats

[Aishagain]

Thankyou Animats, that explains the how the excess LI was generated.  The subsequent nonsense is more of a concern to me.

[Monty Linden]

There is an order to it.  The idea being to slough off suitable victim objects when limits are encountered.  But the specification is complicated and subject to change without notice.  If you experience something that seems at odds with sensible victimhood, just file a bug because it needs attention from time to time (and I believe has received some recently).  Such bug reports should have as much detail as possible (region, parcel, location, time, date in the Mayan calendar, etc.).  This thing is a function of 47 or more variables.

[Love Zhaoying]

2 hours ago, Monty Linden said:

sensible victimhood

I love this phrase, it should apply to many things!!

[Jaylinbridges]

14 hours ago, Monty Linden said:

date in the Mayan calendar

So the order of victimhood is practicing ageism?

Don't return my sculpty/prim design from 2010 and leave that PBR all white glowing mystery object on my land.  

[Qie Niangao]

In a situation more analogous to the one @Aishagain mentions, where manipulating an already-rezzed object causes Land Impact to blow up so the simulator has no choice but to remove some existing content (as opposed to stopping it from rezzing in the first place), something happened this past week that pleasantly surprised me. It ripped the thing I was editing right out of the editor to return it, rather than protecting it as a "selected" object and returning some other item from elsewhere on the land. Pretty sure I've seen that other behavior at some point in the past.

That may have been a change in the logic or just a happy alignment of the Fickle Forty-Seven Factors of Fate, but it's sure a lot easier to find an empty sandbox to re-rez and debug the culprit itself than to track down where to restore a randomly selected victim.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said:

In a situation more analogous to the one @Aishagain mentions, where manipulating an already-rezzed object causes Land Impact to blow up so the simulator has no choice but to remove some existing content (as opposed to stopping it from rezzing in the first place), something happened this past week that pleasantly surprised me. It ripped the thing I was editing right out of the editor to return it, rather than protecting it as a "selected" object and returning some other item from elsewhere on the land. Pretty sure I've seen that other behavior at some point in the past.

That may have been a change in the logic or just a happy alignment of the Fickle Forty-Seven Factors of Fate, but it's sure a lot easier to find an empty sandbox to re-rez and debug the culprit itself than to track down where to restore a randomly selected victim.

..or, it was sensible victimhood!

[Qie Niangao]

"Sensible" is so subjective, though, when the rules are complex beyond human comprehension.

When the results are intuitive, nobody celebrates.

When there's an unhappy surprise, it's a conspiracy. Or a wrathful god. Or hallucinating AI. 

[Henri Beauchamp]

17 hours ago, Monty Linden said:

There is an order to it. .../... (region, parcel, location, time, date in the Mayan calendar, etc.).  This thing is a function of 47 or more variables.

Perhaps would it be time to simplify the algorithm (and then document it) until it is comprehensible by a mere mortal... I would personally expect it to work as follow:

1. Objects subject to parcel-auto-return returned first (first rezzed, i.e. closest to the auto-return delay, first returned).
2. Existing ”Locked” objects either owned by the parcel owner or set, or deeded to the parcel group never returned.
3. Existing deeded objects on group parcel never returned (you never know if the account who deeded it will ever log back in again in SL to un-break the mess).
4. Objects set to group parcel returned only after all objects not set to group parcel have been returned (this is relevant to public rezzing parcels without auto-return).
5. Last rezzed, first returned.

Edited February 25 by Henri Beauchamp

[Love Zhaoying]

It would be nice, if when things are returned you get a "permanent" message that you can find, to know where to re-Rez the item(s).

[Monty Linden]

3 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

It would be nice, if when things are returned you get a "permanent" message that you can find, to know where to re-Rez the item(s).

Notecard-based return receipts mapping object to location might be a nice touch...

[Gabriele Graves]

Ideally, if the operation that would increase the LI of an object exceeds the available land capacity then the simulator would disallow the operation and retain the existing state with a toast message saying something like "Object settings would exceed parcel LI capacity".

That would stop these kinds of edge cases.

Edited February 25 by Gabriele Graves

[Love Zhaoying]

1 hour ago, Monty Linden said:

Notecard-based return receipts mapping object to location might be a nice touch...

I thought of that earlier, but did not suggest it because then you'd have to keep track of / delete / etc. the notecards. I know it certainly seems like the "easy solution"!

ETA: Easier than "storing" the information someplace about "what was returned, where was it returned FROM", and adding that to a GUI with some persistence..

 

Edited February 25 by Love Zhaoying