Love Zhaoying Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 2 hours ago, Qie Niangao said: The much less ambitious "neutrino" thing I was mumbling about earlier was "go straight through" Yes, this is what I thought she meant. Strange quarks indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diablo Lioncourt Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said: But judging by a Mole post a few months ago, there's no telling what the current crop of Governance Lindens will think about any AR they receive. It's possible an especially zealous Governance agent will even require a Mature parcel containing Adult content have the "parcel privacy" bit set, even when there's nobody on the parcel Wow. I missed that. I'm familiar with the old "opaque prim is enough" mentality. It does feel mature SL has slowly been overtaken with a different sort of person than those who made it. These people would have killed it in the beginning. I'm glad I live in Zindra;) Edited January 18 by Diablo Lioncourt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elleevelyn Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said: Certainly back when Blondin was explaining all the new Adult Content Policy rules, just being behind an opaque prim was fine for the policy, but the wording is "every reasonable effort". it used to as Blondin said back then. Linden since updated the policy to: Quote What does "behind closed doors" mean? Adult activity on Moderate land must be conducted "behind closed doors," meaning that you must make every reasonable effort to ensure that the parcel is private. This means: Allow only a group or specific individuals access to the parcel. If it is group-access only, the group must not be freely open to join. Hide avatars (turn off avatar visibility) for the parcel. Enclose the area behind walls or other visual barriers. https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Adult_Content_FAQ the first rule orders banlines (group or parcel whitelist), and/or the orb set to instaboot anyone not on the orb whitelist and if we were to apply these rules rigorously then the Belli covenant re,. No banlines allowed and 15 second orb delay combined with sex beds could be considered in breach of the Official Adult Content policy Linden might have to rewrite the policy re. Belli, or go back to just the last rule (the Blondin rule) Edited January 18 by elleevelyn add link 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, Qie Niangao said: the wording is "every reasonable effort" 1 hour ago, Diablo Lioncourt said: Perhaps my recollection is wrong, but I don't believe it actually says restricted access is mandatory. https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Adult_Content_FAQ Linden Lab Official:Adult Content FAQ What does "behind closed doors" mean? Adult activity on Moderate land must be conducted "behind closed doors," meaning that you must make every reasonable effort to ensure that the parcel is private. This means: Allow only a group or specific individuals access to the parcel. If it is group-access only, the group must not be freely open to join. Hide avatars (turn off avatar visibility) for the parcel. Enclose the area behind walls or other visual barriers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 hour ago, elleevelyn said: Linden might have to rewrite the policy re. Belli, or go back to just the last rule (the Blondin rule) Or, and this is just an off the wall, think outside the box idea here, they could... Revoke the parts of the Bellicosian Covenant that disallow ban-lines and security orbs that ACTUALLY work the way they are supposed to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Isn't it funny how it's always the self-righteous busy-bodies who are telling people who are minding their own business and playing by the rules that they are doing it wrong, committing heinous crimes against others, they are bad people, the worst kind of people in fact and yet they turn out to be wrong about so many things. Maybe we need a ban on busy-bodies. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Graves Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 7 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: Or, and this is just an off the wall, think outside the box idea here, they could... Revoke the parts of the Bellicosian Covenant that disallow ban-lines and security orbs that ACTUALLY work the way they are supposed to. The disablement of banlines also took with them the ability to white-list to a group only. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 13 minutes ago, Gabriele Graves said: Isn't it funny how it's always the self-righteous busy-bodies who are telling people who are minding their own business and playing by the rules that they are doing it wrong, committing heinous crimes against others, they are bad people, the worst kind of people in fact and yet they turn out to be wrong about so many things. Maybe we need a ban on busy-bodies. Yay!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elleevelyn Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Zalificent Corvinus said: Or, and this is just an off the wall, think outside the box idea here, they could... Revoke the parts of the Bellicosian Covenant that disallow ban-lines and security orbs that ACTUALLY work the way they are supposed to. is a interesting issue for Legal Linden to work out - the inconsistency between Adult policy and Belli Covenant am pretty sure the last thing Linden will do is change the technical application aspects of Belli, will be a nightmare for them if anything was to happen then most likely the adult policy be changed to something like "upto 15 second orb delay is a reasonable effort" would mean tho that if did have sex bed on M land then to be compliant with this rule then would also have to set the Belli orb to 15 seconds exactly. Not more than 15 seconds, booting every avatar not on the orb whitelist, and not set to Off Edited January 18 by elleevelyn typs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 2 minutes ago, elleevelyn said: is a interesting issue for Legal Linden to work out tho the inconsistency between Adult policy and Belli Covenant Not really, the Bellicosian Covenant is wrong. The No ban-lines and only broken orbs thing was added after the launch of Bellicosia, because Moles told Management "ban lines cause problems". No Mole has ever publicly stated what the alleged problems were supposed to be. The only statement about this ever made on the forum was a Mole claiming "we wanted it to be friendlier", which they apparently thought would be the result of pandering to curtain twitching neighbourhood snitches prodnose busy-bodies who delight in telling their neighbours how to live. 6 minutes ago, elleevelyn said: change the technical application aspects of Belli, will be a nightmare for them Not really, they just change some flags for the estate, and edit the estate covenant text, same way they put that anti-privacy nonsense in to begin with. Bellicosia TRAINS Bellicosians to be ToS violating anti-privacy griefers. THAT is a problem. I've had Bellicosians tell me my orb is "illegal" becasuse they only know the Bellicosian "LL turn a blind eye to criminals" not-rules, not the REAL rules that apply on Mainland. They are often shocked & confused to discover that Bellicosian not-rules do NOT apply on mainland. Don't break mainland, just FIX Bellicosia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 2 hours ago, Diablo Lioncourt said: They don't require all adult content in moderate areas be behind ban lines. They really don't. They do allow adult furniture on Belli without the use of ban lines. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: 2 hours ago, Diablo Lioncourt said: They don't require all adult content in moderate areas be behind ban lines. They really don't. They do allow adult furniture on Belli without the use of ban lines. It boggles my mind why some people are so paranoid about having adult content. About the only serious reasons I can think of are, a) they themselves griefed someone before and don't want to be caught / held responsible in the future, or b) they just don't have a firm grasp on the actual risks. Ok, ok, also c) perhaps they themselves were griefed or threatened in the past (or heard stories about others), and believed the threats, etc. Edited January 18 by Love Zhaoying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Just so it's completely clear how unclear this all is, the latest I've seen from a Governance Linden (as relayed by a Mole) is: Quote If it is rezzed on private land, the items cannot be usable by anyone other than the owner and/or their own partner. .so they can have their sex beds and couches in a house.. or skybox.. but they should have the land set so no one else can see them on their parcel (no peeping) and the furniture should be set to owner only or owner and approved named users. So they can not set up a sex club and just let anyone flying by use it which does away with the whole banline thing, replacing it with just the "parcel privacy" visibility flag and a magical attribute of the adult content itself: sex furniture must reject all but owner-approved users. So good luck with that. The fun part is the confusion goes back to 2009 (this pre-https link from the ancient forums archive won't open in Chrome but will in Edge after some scary fussing) : 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 2 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said: Just so it's completely clear how unclear this all is, the latest I've seen from a Governance Linden (as relayed by a Mole) is: which does away with the whole banline thing, replacing it with just the "parcel privacy" visibility flag and a magical attribute of the adult content itself: sex furniture must reject all but owner-approved users. So good luck with that. The fun part is the confusion goes back to 2009 (this pre-https link from the ancient forums archive won't open in Chrome but will in Edge after some scary fussing) : Interesting how there's the shift between "Private (indoors)" and now "with privacy set (no nobody can look in)". Technology moves us forward! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clem Marques Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 (edited) On 1/16/2024 at 5:51 PM, Love Zhaoying said: * raises paw * Me! You and I both. The only reason I got a premium membership was to own some pieces of Mainland. The other perks like the extra groups and weekly L$ are good as well, but I see them as a bonus. On 1/16/2024 at 4:25 PM, Rowan Amore said: I really wonder what percentage of people actually go premium to own mainland. Not one single person I know who is premium has any interest whatsoever with owning any mainland. A couple do have homes in Belli, though. The percentage must be fairly low. Lots of people choose to rent. Nowadays if someone wants to own Mainland they can just get a Plus membership, which is significantly cheaper. Premium makes more sense for people who want a Belli home, unless the person really needs the extra 1024m2 tier for their Mainland parcels. Edited January 18 by Clem Marques 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diablo Lioncourt Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 21 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said: Just so it's completely clear how unclear this all is, the latest I've seen from a Governance Linden (as relayed by a Mole) is: which does away with the whole banline thing, replacing it with just the "parcel privacy" visibility flag and a magical attribute of the adult content itself: sex furniture must reject all but owner-approved users. So good luck with that. The fun part is the confusion goes back to 2009 (this pre-https link from the ancient forums archive won't open in Chrome but will in Edge after some scary fussing) : I love this, because it illustrates the huge impact of human bias and interpretation of policy. We have some volunteer expert claiming all private clubs in mature/moderate zones must now literally have sit security. Next to a Linden telling someone they don't qualify for a free move to Zindra, but can do whatever they want indoors in "Mature" sims, as we were told forever, and reassured when they merged the grids and made all these changes. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 2 minutes ago, Diablo Lioncourt said: I love this, because it illustrates the huge impact of human bias and interpretation of policy. We have some volunteer expert claiming all private clubs in mature/moderate zones must now literally have sit security. Next to a Linden telling someone they don't qualify for a free move to Zindra, but can do whatever they want indoors in "Mature" sims, as we were told forever, and reassured when they merged the grids and made all these changes. It's almost as if there is an entire "spectrum" of comprehension! Go figure! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diablo Lioncourt Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: It's almost as if there is an entire "spectrum" of comprehension! Go figure! Than you! I re-read that, and realized my own comprehension was off. According to what was linked, its not a Mole's opinion, its something he got by asking a GM. So now, according to that Mole at least, GMs are saying the "non commercial" sex clubs they denied free moves to Zindra a decade ago for being "non commerical" but said at the time would be allowed to remain "behind closed doors" in Moderate indefinitely no longer have a right to exist there. Interesting shift. The Mole's conclusion, after consulting a GM, is summarized as follows: On 12/11/2023 at 3:11 PM, Quartz Mole said: Setting up a sex club on M land is not permitted. It has to be on Adult land. Edited January 18 by Diablo Lioncourt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 23 minutes ago, Diablo Lioncourt said: I love this, because it illustrates the huge impact of human bias and interpretation of policy. We have some volunteer expert claiming all private clubs in mature/moderate zones must now literally have sit security. Next to a Linden telling someone they don't qualify for a free move to Zindra, but can do whatever they want indoors in "Mature" sims, as we were told forever, and reassured when they merged the grids and made all these changes. Whereas, the linked section basically says, "no sex clubs" in Mature. With no reference to the Commercial aspect. There's a few things going on: - Is it a "sex club"? Not allowed except in Adult. - Is it commercial? Not alllowed in Belli. - There was also a separate (pictured, not linked) post about "moving" at the time Zindra started; "moving" was free for "commercial" use, but not if non-commercial. I think that post is somewhat irrelevant now (could just be my opinion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilliJo Aldrin Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 6 hours ago, Qie Niangao said: Yeah, in theory it's not an unrealistic limitation when driving or walking, if everything worked exactly as it should, but cross a region border and lose control for 20 seconds for example, and you may as well be flying. Hit an orb that separates you from your vehicle, maybe even teleporting you home, and the whole trip is as far from realistic as any experience in SL and after a couple incidents, too damned annoying to continue. And it's the larger problem of people (and yeah, newbies especially) getting discouraged about SL as a place to explore, and just hanging it up, either leaving altogether or resigning themselves to doing nothing but point-to-point teleporting around the grid, which is a huge loss. That's especially true on Mainland, where exploring could have been a completely different experience, as it is on Belli and many private estate regions with similar covenants. If Mainland had been like that from the beginning, it and SL overall would be a much more welcoming and interesting place. Simply, instead of requiring open-access-seeking landowners to find an accessible place, start from the default that everywhere is accessible, like SL birthday exhibit regions or Belli, etc., and offer non-Mainland places to those who seek non-access. Why? Because, again, one access restricted parcel blows the exploring experience for everybody who encounters it wherever they were going, but one open-access parcel has no effect on any restrictions. That's the asymmetry, the tragedy of the commons, of that original mistake. Can we live with it like this? Well, yeah, we're gonna have to, aren't we? But there's no surprise here when the Mainland minefield loses out to Belli and the estates. There may be other reasons, too, but now that there are huge stretches of explore-safe Belli, the Mainland experience is uniquely unpleasant. Belli is explore safe? Pity there is nothing worth exploring. As for sim crossings, you barrel down the highway at full speed, you are halfway across the next sim before the transfer is complete. Perhaps the moles could put stop signs at the sim borders. Stop, then procede slowly until the transfer is complete. I have a blimp i fly, I never have problems at sim crossings because it goes slow. Same with floaties,i could sail all day with no issues. Wanna know a great way to explore mainland?Hop on one of those hoverpods that plod along mainland roads.😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diablo Lioncourt Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 (edited) 4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said: Whereas, the linked section basically says, "no sex clubs" in Mature. With no reference to the Commercial aspect. There's a few things going on: - Is it a "sex club"? Not allowed except in Adult. - Is it commercial? Not alllowed in Belli. - There was also a separate (pictured, not linked) post about "moving" at the time Zindra started; "moving" was free for "commercial" use, but not if non-commercial. I think that post is somewhat irrelevant now (could just be my opinion). There's been, at least in my experience, a clear prohibition on solicitation/promotion of adult commercial activity/products/services in Moderate forever. What seems to have changed, perhaps, is the definition of what's considered a "reasonable effort" to keep an area "private". The original inside a building/not in open view idea seems to have gradually shifted pretty far off course. The Zindra free moves thing illustrates how these changes were originally represented to us. It also begs the question whether additional free moves were later offered to those initially denied them, when the "behind closed doors" policy was revised/changed. Edited January 18 by Diablo Lioncourt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zalificent Corvinus Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 35 minutes ago, Diablo Lioncourt said: We have some volunteer expert claiming all private clubs in mature/moderate zones must now literally have sit security. Next to a Linden telling someone they don't qualify for a free move to Zindra, but can do whatever they want indoors in "Mature" sims, as we were told forever, and reassured when they merged the grids and made all these changes. Actually, what you have there is somebody claiming what some former LL employee said FIFTEEN YEARS AGO, somehow magically trumps what CURRENT LL employees have Officially posted as Official information in the Official FAQ, NOW. And here in this thread somebody attempting to claim that a 15 yr old thread, and a more recent thread about sex clubs not being allowed at all on M-rated parcels, is somehow justification for ranting that private home owners shouldn't be allowed any privacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 3 minutes ago, Diablo Lioncourt said: The original inside a building/not in open view idea seems to have gradually shifted pretty far off course. ..to now, "turn on parcel privacy"? Of course, in "Adult" that shouldn't be needed. So I assume we are talking about "Mature". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diablo Lioncourt Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 2 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: ..to now, "turn on parcel privacy"? Of course, in "Adult" that shouldn't be needed. So I assume we are talking about "Mature". Well, someone may be in fact saying that EVEN IF you turn on parcel privacy AND set sit security to group only, THEN On 12/11/2023 at 3:11 PM, Quartz Mole said: Setting up a sex club on M land is not permitted. It has to be on Adult land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 1 minute ago, Diablo Lioncourt said: Well, someone may be in fact saying that EVEN IF you turn on parcel privacy AND set sit security to group only, THEN Yep, I got that part! Sorry for any confusion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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