Unusual graphical glitches, which persist even after several attempts to fix?

[Demiourgia]

So lately I've been experiencing a number of glitches that happen to me on pretty much every viewer, from the Second Life Viewer, to Firestorm, to Black Dragon.

These glitches vary.

1. Extra pixels around the edges of models.
2. Flashing body layers, either complete or partial. Oftentimes, the darkened, flashing part has individual pixels in it. (Warning: will start video download if your browser doesn't automatically play it)
3. Furniture with flashing layers, also with pixels, squares appearing inside it. 
4. Whatever this is (another video)
5. A single avatar's textures stretching out across my entire screen in completely random directions
6. THE FOG IS COMING. Seems to only happen when the viewer brings my system's memory usage to 100%.
7. Clothes stretching when zooming out.
8. Avatars appearing broken after slightly moving camera, with only few faces of their body showing.

So the tl;dr of all my attempted fixes boil down to:

- Replacing every part of my PC that isn't the PSU, CPU or motherboard
- Cleaning, reseating, checking connections, signs of damage to components, etc.
- Trying different versions of the drivers on both my old and my new GPU
- Reinstalling all viewers, clearing cache, saved data, etc.

- Resetting my BIOS
- TO DO: Probably fully reinstall Windows.

I'm not even sure what I could even try at this point. It only happens in SL; haven't had anything like this in the games I play.

Any ideas what might be causing it and what else I could try?

Edited February 25, 2023 by Demiourgia

[NiranV Dean]

I am positively sure this is a GPU issue. AMD is known for these kind of issues. I'd suggest trying older drivers, try multiple, many many versions older. This might be an issue for several many versions. It might also be your GPU itself (i doubt but not impossible, again AMD is.... having issues with OpenGL). This issue cropped up in the past already.

[Lindal Kidd]

I've never seen aught like it, but here are other things you could try.

• If you use wifi, or a router or switch between your PC and your internet modem, connect the computer to the internet modem directly, to eliminate any intermediate item in your network causing the problem
• Try using a different internet modem. These things often start to develop issues after a few years of service.
• Take your computer to a friend's house, or anywhere that uses some other Internet service provider. See if you still get the issues. That will help determine if the problem is your ISP. If you still see this stuff when connected, it's most likely something in your computer.

Note...I don't hold these out as likely culprits, since you say you have no problems with the rest of the internet. But they're still things that should be checked.

"brings my system memory to 100%" Say what? This oughtn't to be happening, unless your system is badly memory limited. Have you run MEMTEST to look for bad memory blocks?

[Demiourgia]

4 hours ago, Lindal Kidd said:

I've never seen aught like it, but here are other things you could try.

• If you use wifi, or a router or switch between your PC and your internet modem, connect the computer to the internet modem directly, to eliminate any intermediate item in your network causing the problem
• Try using a different internet modem. These things often start to develop issues after a few years of service.
• Take your computer to a friend's house, or anywhere that uses some other Internet service provider. See if you still get the issues. That will help determine if the problem is your ISP. If you still see this stuff when connected, it's most likely something in your computer.

Note...I don't hold these out as likely culprits, since you say you have no problems with the rest of the internet. But they're still things that should be checked.

"brings my system memory to 100%" Say what? This oughtn't to be happening, unless your system is badly memory limited. Have you run MEMTEST to look for bad memory blocks?

Thank you for the suggestions.

I recently replaced my modem, but have had these issues since before replacing it. There were some connection issues that forced me to replace it, but I figured a lot of the data is downloaded to your device, the same issues wouldn't occur with the same textures/objects every time.

As for the RAM; yes. in the last 2 months I noticed absurdly high memory usage when running any SL viewer. Before, even the bustiest places never went above 7gb memory usage for me, but now even places with just a dozen people easily climb up to 10gb in a matter of minutes
I have 16gb of RAM, so that causes all sorts of issues. However, I did reseat the modules and test with just one at a time, but I still had the glitches. Windows Memory Diagnostic didn't show any errors, and I would've run MEMTEST86, but for a good thorough test I'd need to leave my PC running and unattended for over 24 hrs, so I'm keeping it as a last resort.

[Demiourgia]

Reinstalled everything, wiped everything, replaced every component...

AND I STILL GET THESE GLITCHES.

Goddammit, it was Second Life just being *****ty, all along, as usual.

[Rowan Amore]

Could you post your computer specs as they relate to SL.  At the top of the viewer...Help/About/Firestorm (or whichever viewer you're using)  Copy to clipboard and paste that information

[Demiourgia]

4 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Could you post your computer specs as they relate to SL.  At the top of the viewer...Help/About/Firestorm (or whichever viewer you're using)  Copy to clipboard and paste that information

It'll be hard now, since over the last 3 weeks I went through a long cycle of swapping parts (RAM, GPU, SSDs) out, trying out one combination after another. I tried to summarize all the hardware and software changes I made along the way, but I didn't really log what Windows 10 versions I was using besides the most recent one. I figure if the previous version and the absolutely first version I put on a thumb drive 7 years ago are having issues, it's probably something else.

This is what I started with, and returned to after all the testing.
https://pastebin.com/qtmZNB8J
Other GPUs used: AMD's  RX 6500 XT
Other Radeon Drivers used: 17.7.1, 17.7.2, 22.11.2, 22.5.2, 22.11.2, 23.2.1
Replaced SSDs since I had some spare, also tried them individually. 
The RAM I tried replacing with some crappy 2x4gb 2400 MHz Crucial kit.

Other Firestorm releases used: 6.6.3 (67470), 6.5.6 (66221)

Edited February 26, 2023 by Demiourgia

[Rowan Amore]

1 hour ago, Demiourgia said:

It'll be hard now, since over the last 3 weeks I went through a long cycle of swapping parts (RAM, GPU, SSDs) out, trying out one combination after another. I tried to summarize all the hardware and software changes I made along the way, but I didn't really log what Windows 10 versions I was using besides the most recent one. I figure if the previous version and the absolutely first version I put on a thumb drive 7 years ago are having issues, it's probably something else.

This is what I started with, and returned to after all the testing.
https://pastebin.com/qtmZNB8J
Other GPUs used: NVidia's GeForce GTX 660, AMD's  RX 6500 XT
Other Radeon Drivers used: 17.7.1, 17.7.2, 22.11.2, 22.5.2, 22.11.2, 23.2.1
Replaced SSDs since I had some spare, also tried them individually. 
The RAM I tried replacing with some crappy 2x4gb 2400 MHz Crucial kit.

Other Firestorm releases used: 6.6.3 (67470), 6.5.6 (66221)

Sorry, didn't check your link first.

I have the same graphics as you have (580) and have also had some interesting effects recently, mostly with shadows.  As my laptop is getting older, I assumed it had to do with age and type.  Since you have these issues with other graphics cards, maybe it's not my card either.

I'll be watching this thread to see if anyone has any ideas.

 

Edited February 26, 2023 by Rowan Amore

[Rowan Amore]

https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/antivirus_whitelisting

[Modulated]

This is a stab in the dark, but open your debug settings, type in RenderGLContextCoreProfile and set it to true, restart your viewer. It has been my experience that AMD cards prefer a newer opengl version and don't do that well with a forced compatibility profile that SL viewers use by default.  Just note the setting so you can revert it if you have issues.

[Demiourgia]

I built a completely new PC with completely new everything. New motherboard. New PSU. New RAM. I switched from AMD to an Intel CPU and an Nvidia card. New M.2 SSD, new 2.5 inch SSD. Running on Windows 11 instead of 10 now.

Guess what?

The first 4 issues I mentioned... I'm still having them. The rest, dunno. They haven't happened. It's only been a couple days.

At this point I feel like this is a commonly known issue and I am just being trolled into wasting money on new PC parts by people pretending that they're not having these issues.

Alternatively it could be that it's just these places and objects that are cursed and exist in an eternal state of being simultaneously glitchy to some people and not glitchy to others and you don't know until the glitch starts happening to you what state it's in. Th͝ey͏ ͢d͡efy ̢a̧ll͜ l̀o̧gic̢ ąnd ҉e̸xp͏l͢ana͏tįo͞n.͝ ͘ Even with the settings completely reset to default, or set to the profiles of someone who is not having said glitches, they are present. 

I give up.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Demiourgia

[Lindal Kidd]

If you're using a completely different PC, and you said earlier that you'd replaced the internet modem, you've narrowed the problem to either the Linden Lab servers or your ISP.

Have you tried going to a friend's house or an internet cafe and logging in your account using a different ISP, as I suggested earlier?

[Wulfie Reanimator]

There's no way an internet connection could cause all of the graphical glitches listed in the OP.

Been following this thread since the beginning and it seems bizarre.

The only thing I can think of is not just the PC's power supply, but the local power grid (including wiring in the house) being absolutely terrible, but OP would know if that was the case. It can't be that general of a problem because these things ONLY happen in SL.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Love Zhaoying]

6 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

There's no way an internet connection could cause all of the graphical glitches listed in the OP.

Been following this thread since the beginning and it seems bizarre.

Isn't the most likely answer, as stated by the OP, that everyone else is lying about not having these issues? Occam's razor.

[Demiourgia]

3 hours ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

There's no way an internet connection could cause all of the graphical glitches listed in the OP.

Been following this thread since the beginning and it seems bizarre.

The only thing I can think of is not just the PC's power supply, but the local power grid (including wiring in the house) being absolutely terrible, but OP would know if that was the case. It can't be that general of a problem because these things ONLY happen in SL.

I think the most likely explanation is that it's a mix of things.

General: 

 

Issue 1 seems to strongly depend on the preferences used. The lower they are, the more likely it is to happen, but I'm not sure if it has to do with aliasing, because there's this damn beach chair that always does this even if I'm on high.

Issue 2 hard to reproduce because I have no control over other people's avatars, though I do have two friends that get all glitchy for me, but only in specific places. Doesn't seem tied to my system memory and it happens even after fully restarting my PC or viewer. It might have to do with transparent layers and alphas, because I notice this often happens with tattoos, ouchies and other body markings. There's always exceptions to this, which makes me even more confused.

Issue 3 a glitchy piece of furniture is always glitchy regardless of viewer, system, setting. The weird thing is that on 1 out of the 4 computers I tested it on, those textures are never glitchy. That PC is ancient, so I don't understand how it's different. Either that, or I wasn't paying close enough attention. As far as rezzed objects go, I was redeemed a couple times when I asked the owners of the objects to rez one for me or give me a copy, only to be told that a few other people have also reported those glitches to them, so I am not alone.

Issue 7: hasn't happened since I posted the screenshot, but when I took that screenshot, several other avatars' attachments in the area were doing the same. No idea what caused it. 

ssue 8: still happens, but it looks like the body parts of certain avatars are just being randomly derendered and rerendered over small distance changes like they were furniture on different LOD settings. Also not sure why it's doing this; it seems pretty random, happen whether there's other avatars rendered in the FOV or not.

Viewer-dependent:

Issue 4: I've only had it happen thrice on Firestorm so far. Hard to reproduce because glitchy people seem to have a knack for logging off or leaving the area just as I change viewers. Doesn't seem tied to memory.

Issues 5 & 6:  extreme texture stretching and the weird black with spotty pixels textures over everything are always accompanied by extremely high memory use FOR ME, like the viewer using 12gb of RAM in a place where it previously only used about 3-5gb. I first thought it could be due to some changes in the SL backend, because I am clearly not the only person experiencing that. I can also reliably reproduce these every single time on Firestorm just by logging into a second account. This has never happened in the last 3 years of using alts to test permissions with products and scripts. SL Viewer seems to be more random with this, and I've never had the issue with Black Dragon. The latter two viewers do warn that multiboxing may lead to corrupted cache and those issues, but it doesn't explain why it would happen on a fresh Windows install when running just one viewer.

Note on 5: have been approached by some users with the same issues to ask me if I had found a solution to it, but when trying to reproduce the issue, they had even less memory than me, and neither their system memory use nor Firestorm's or SL Viewer's memory usage were very high when the issues occurred, even though the exact issues were happening to them

Other suggested solutions: 

As for the suggestion to check my Internet connection... I'm sorry, it just comes across like the person suggesting it genuinely doesn't know the first thing about computers or how Second Life works. Here's a thought experiment: If you download a set of 10000 pictures 100 times, and it's always the same pictures acting funny every time, would you assume it's an issue with the download, or the picture in the download? 

Power issues might make more sense, but you'd expect it to be more general and tied to performance and load. As far as I can tell, the issues are just as likely to occur with nothing else running in the background as they are if I'm playing a game or running heavy background tasks. Other than the parts I couldn't reproduce, it's mostly the same issues, with the same objects; the glitchy body parts and furniture have similarities, even if I'm then scratching my head when I find a similar non-glitchy variant.

[Ardy Lay]

49 minutes ago, Demiourgia said:

it's mostly the same issues, with the same objects; the glitchy body parts and furniture have similarities, even if I'm then scratching my head when I find a similar non-glitchy variant.

Maybe it's time to identify those objects specifically.  I have found a few things that recall corrupted assets that do weird things to the viewer when attempting to use them.  I generally just delete them and move on, but maybe it's time to start a museum of cursed objects.

[Demiourgia]

6 minutes ago, Ardy Lay said:

Maybe it's time to identify those objects specifically.  I have found a few things that recall corrupted assets that do weird things to the viewer when attempting to use them.  I generally just delete them and move on, but maybe it's time to start a museum of cursed objects.

I was considering it just for the trolling potential troubleshooting issues, but the owners refuse to give me a copy.

Edited March 15, 2023 by Demiourgia

[Ardy Lay]

2 minutes ago, Demiourgia said:

I was considering it just for the trolling potential troubleshooting issues, but the owners refuse to give me a copy.

OH!  None of it is your stuff?  Yes.  Yes, I suspect you are being trolled.  Go someplace else.  Seek a different crowd.  Do the glitches occur away from the known instances?  No?  You now know whole the trolls are.  Change your tactics.  Ignore their busted stuff.  Don't talk about it.  Take away their fun.

 

[Demiourgia]

1 minute ago, Ardy Lay said:

OH!  None of it is your stuff?  Yes.  Yes, I suspect you are being trolled.  Go someplace else.  Seek a different crowd.  Do the glitches occur away from the known instances?  No?  You now know whole the trolls are.  Change your tactics.  Ignore their busted stuff.  Don't talk about it.  Take away their fun.

 

It doesn't seem intentional. Most of my friends don't experience the same glitches as I do on those objects, but then some other people claim it is glitching for them. Also applies to some of the other issues I'm having. At least a handful of the people I asked for help in diagnosing these issues have no reason to lie to me about it and they're not the trickster type.

[Love Zhaoying]

27 minutes ago, Demiourgia said:

It doesn't seem intentional. Most of my friends don't experience the same glitches as I do on those objects, but then some other people claim it is glitching for them. Also applies to some of the other issues I'm having. At least a handful of the people I asked for help in diagnosing these issues have no reason to lie to me about it and they're not the trickster type.

I agree with the general sentiment of @Ardy Lay in that, if you stop focusing on these particular objects, you may notice the issues less and less on other objects. 

I and perhaps others interpreted your original post to mean, that you see these issues all the time on objects all over Second Life.  

[Demiourgia]

37 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I agree with the general sentiment of @Ardy Lay in that, if you stop focusing on these particular objects, you may notice the issues less and less on other objects. 

I and perhaps others interpreted your original post to mean, that you see these issues all the time on objects all over Second Life.  

To be fair, in most populated places there's at least one avatar or object that may cause any of these issues.

The best option to avoid these glitches for me is using Black Dragon and exile myself to my own parcel. Until my girl pays me a visit and her thighs start glitching at me, forcing me to politely ask her to change her outfit to something less revealing.

[Love Zhaoying]

Question: Since you have tried this with a "brand new" (rebuilt from scratch) PC - with a completely fresh viewer install: 

Are you using the default viewer settings for graphics, etc.?  Just making sure you are not turning something "on" or "off" in the viewer which could be causing your issue.

Personally, I found it difficult to make sure in this thread (because it is a "question" and posts get moved around) that you changed the graphics card, etc.

The advice given by others I was most curious about  - even assuming you changed to a different brand graphics card, etc. - if if you had the proper OpenGL settings, drivers, etc.  Someone recommended trying a specific Debug setting for OpenGL, and I did not notice if you had actually tried that.

[Demiourgia]

4 hours ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Question: Since you have tried this with a "brand new" (rebuilt from scratch) PC - with a completely fresh viewer install: 

Are you using the default viewer settings for graphics, etc.?  Just making sure you are not turning something "on" or "off" in the viewer which could be causing your issue.

Personally, I found it difficult to make sure in this thread (because it is a "question" and posts get moved around) that you changed the graphics card, etc.

The advice given by others I was most curious about  - even assuming you changed to a different brand graphics card, etc. - if if you had the proper OpenGL settings, drivers, etc.  Someone recommended trying a specific Debug setting for OpenGL, and I did not notice if you had actually tried that.

Done it now on the rig with the AMD. Still having the same issues.

[Lindal Kidd]

8 hours ago, Demiourgia said:

As for the suggestion to check my Internet connection... I'm sorry, it just comes across like the person suggesting it genuinely doesn't know the first thing about computers or how Second Life works. Here's a thought experiment: If you download a set of 10000 pictures 100 times, and it's always the same pictures acting funny every time, would you assume it's an issue with the download, or the picture in the download? 

I would not call myself an expert by any means, but I do have a reasonably good understanding of computers, SL, and the internet. Enough to build my own computers and successfully troubleshoot (so far!) their problems. What I do understand very well is how to isolate a problem.

But what YOU failed to provide is only now coming to light. You have this long list of problems...but you only see some of them sometimes, or in certain places, or with certain objects.

Which leads me to now suggest that Ardy is correct...your problems most likely have different causes. Trying to say they're all due to one thing and then trying to find "it" is leading you down a rabbit hole.

Anyway, I shan't waste your time or mine any longer, since you seem to be more intent on insulting people than addressing your problems.

[Love Zhaoying]

Has anyone thought to ask yet, if the OP is using some type of special display monitor that may use special display drivers, etc.?

[Hayley Sahara]

I had several glitches, some like yours. And all of them fixed by Disabling Antialiasing. Even without the restart, the flickering and pixelated glitches on others, weird mesh outlines and seethrough names, all vanished.