Silent Mistwalker Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Suggestion: Add "pose stand" to the default viewer. I am certain Firestorm as a LOT of things that need to be added to the default viewer. FS has tried to get LL to add certain features to the official viewer over the years. LL has declined. It's been about 10 years now so I doubt LL will ever add the pose stand to the official viewer if it hasn't already been included. Edited February 19, 2023 by Silent Mistwalker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qie Niangao Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 6 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Suggestion: Add "pose stand" to the default viewer. I am certain Firestorm as a LOT of things that need to be added to the default viewer. Honestly, I'd like to keep the total number of user affordances in the Linden viewer to no more than the current count. So if a pose stand is important, I'd argue we must first find the feature less important than that, and remove it. The Linden viewer is already far too complicated for any new resident to learn to use, but they've done some work making the complexity "discoverable" and not as intimidating at first. The Firestorm UI is full bore hardcore firehose, where "discoverability" translates "Yo dawg, we heard you like tabs, so we put tabs in your tabs." 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Qie Niangao said: 39 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Suggestion: Add "pose stand" to the default viewer. I am certain Firestorm as a LOT of things that need to be added to the default viewer. Honestly, I'd like to keep the total number of user affordances in the Linden viewer to no more than the current count. So if a pose stand is important, I'd argue we must first find the feature less important than that, and remove it. The Linden viewer is already far too complicated for any new resident to learn to use, but they've done some work making the complexity "discoverable" and not as intimidating at first. The Firestorm UI is full bore hardcore firehose, where "discoverability" translates "Yo dawg, we heard you like tabs, so we put tabs in your tabs." I don't disagree, but my reasoning for this suggestion (which I did not give) is fairly strong: - I have seen a lot of posts that indicate "Getting dressed" is important. - A lot of posts focus on the "New" (read as: "Basic") user experience - Assumption: "Getting Dressed" is "easier" (?) with a pose stand - Conclusion: Basic users cannot Rez a pose stand so..help them get dressed by giving them a way to Rez a Pose Stand without needing "Rez Rights". ..assuming the Firestorm Pose Stand option doesn't require Rez Rights, of course.. Edited February 19, 2023 by Love Zhaoying 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowan Amore Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 8 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: I don't disagree, but my reasoning for this suggestion (which I did not give) is fairly strong: - I have seen a lot of posts that indicate "Getting dressed" is important. - A lot of posts focus on the "New" (read as: "Basic") user experience - Assumption: "Getting Dressed" is "easier" (?) with a pose stand - Conclusion: Basic users cannot Rez a pose stand so..help them get dressed by giving them a way to Rez a Post Stand without needing "Rez Rights". ..assuming the Firestorm Pose Stand option doesn't require Rez Rights, of course.. The pose stand does not require rez rights and is one of the best things Firestorm added IMO. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benchthis Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 14 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Suggestion: Add "pose stand" to the default viewer. I am certain Firestorm as a LOT of things that need to be added to the default viewer. Pose stand would be cool. I've heard they have a custom animation overrider built into the viewer. That would be sweet. Dropping in our own stand animation, walk animation, fly animation, swim animation, run animation, maybe a few slots for different favorite dances. Here's one that's been in my mind for a few days. I was coloring some angel wings the other day and was able to apply one color at a time to the object. It would be neat to have a way to select rainbow colors or way to select 2 or more colors and have how they blend together options. Like apply green to bottom of color tile and appy blue to the top of the color tile. Sure I could have deleted the wing texture and put a rainbow texture instead but would have lost my feather texture details. Having option to easily create custom color pattens to apply to objects would be useful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benchthis Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: I don't disagree, but my reasoning for this suggestion (which I did not give) is fairly strong: - I have seen a lot of posts that indicate "Getting dressed" is important. - A lot of posts focus on the "New" (read as: "Basic") user experience - Assumption: "Getting Dressed" is "easier" (?) with a pose stand - Conclusion: Basic users cannot Rez a pose stand so..help them get dressed by giving them a way to Rez a Post Stand without needing "Rez Rights". ..assuming the Firestorm Pose Stand option doesn't require Rez Rights, of course.. The only pose stand the Linden Viewer has is the away option, slumps over the avatar. In a way the official viewer already has it built in they just need to tweak it a little bit. Edited February 19, 2023 by benchthis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 TIL Firestorm has a pose stand. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 10 minutes ago, Rowan Amore said: The pose stand does not require rez rights and is one of the best things Firestorm added IMO. Thanks for the feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 11 minutes ago, benchthis said: Pose stand would be cool. I've heard they have a custom animation overrider built into the viewer. That would be sweet. Dropping in our own stand animation, walk animation, fly animation, swim animation, run animation, maybe a few slots for different favorite dances. Here's one that's been in my mind for a few days. I was coloring some angel wings the other day and was able to apply one color at a time to the object. It would be neat to have a way to select rainbow colors or way to select 2 or more colors and have how they blend together options. Like apply green to bottom of color tile and appy blue to the top of the color tile. Sure I could have deleted the wing texture and put a rainbow texture instead but would have lost my feather texture details. Having option to easily create custom color pattens to apply to objects would be useful. Like, a "gradient" of colors, if that's a proper word for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benchthis Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said: Like, a "gradient" of colors, if that's a proper word for it. That sounds like something i've heard before recently. I'm thinking back to old publisher and website designers where colors could be customized on buttons. Heres video of some examples of gradient tile combos I have in mind. Sound warning is not great recommend reduce volumn before playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 Suggestion: Make a way for Creators to submit "Free Items" to the default avatar "Library". If needed, add categories and sub folders to the "Library". ("Trusted" creators, "Provably DRM-free" items.) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliseAnne85 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 25 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: - I have seen a lot of posts that indicate "Getting dressed" is important. - A lot of posts focus on the "New" (read as: "Basic") user experience - Assumption: "Getting Dressed" is "easier" (?) with a pose stand Most things for the human avatar are rigged now including hair and jewelry. I am a Dinkie and so I have to wear unrigged items for hair and jewelry, even belts and hats. But, I'd guess a pose stand would be needed for human avatars for hats, glasses, perhaps some other items. Anyhow, you made me realize I need to put a notecard in any jewelry items I may sell to the Dinkies in case they don't know how to fit it. But, I don't put a pose stand in there. Most sellers don't include those anymore. Yes, Dinkie shapes are modify so unrigged items have to be custom fit if one changed the default shape. But, POSE STAND in the FS viewer is so easy to understand, yet what might the main human *newbie* avatars need it for other than a few items? It should be noted, however, that most sellers do not include a pose stand anymore, so it might be wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 Wait, is the pose stand feature for photography? Like you drop several poses in there and can swap them? Or just a single pose for adjusting items? Since editing worn items "freezes" my avatar, I rarely ever use pose stands for that. I just right-click, Edit, and shift things around (works great for mesh ears, jewelry, accessories, hats, etc.). Only if I'm doing something more complicated (alpha magic) will I just fire up a static pose in my inventory so I can see which bits and pieces of my body need to go without wiggling all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benchthis Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Suggestion: Make a way for Creators to submit "Free Items" to the default avatar "Library". If needed, add categories and sub folders to the "Library". ("Trusted" creators, "Provably DRM-free" items.) Not sure if adding objects directly to the linden library would be most effienct. A little update reorganization would not hurt AND while they are doing that they could add a button or thumbnail in the inventory (even a folder named free sorted to top of list with notecard with link to the marketplace with price auto filled to 0 and do not show demos checked, this way anyone can press that button do a search and have a list of free objects and get newer users used to using the marketplace sooner than later. The attached images is examples of the current process to get to the free objects in the marketplace. First open marketplace, search anything, scroll down and on the left side for maximum price key in 0 and below that check box the option to not show demos and wala I have 490 results. If linden and mole objects were located in the marketplace would make redelivery more efficient. Edited February 19, 2023 by benchthis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 20 minutes ago, benchthis said: Not sure if adding objects directly to the linden library would be most effienct Perhaps, but..if they are already THERE, then helping a new person find them is perhaps simpler than "go to the MP and search", etc. 20 minutes ago, benchthis said: The attached images is examples of the current process to get to the free objects in the marketplace. First open marketplace, search anything, scroll down and on the left side for maximum price key in 0 and below that check box the option to not show demos and wala I have 490 results. If linden and mole objects were located in the marketplace would make redelivery more efficient. Lots of steps there..vs "go to your Library". Edited February 19, 2023 by Love Zhaoying 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 46 minutes ago, EliseAnne85 said: Most things for the human avatar are rigged now including hair and jewelry. I am a Dinkie and so I have to wear unrigged items for hair and jewelry, even belts and hats. But, I'd guess a pose stand would be needed for human avatars for hats, glasses, perhaps some other items. Anyhow, you made me realize I need to put a notecard in any jewelry items I may sell to the Dinkies in case they don't know how to fit it. But, I don't put a pose stand in there. Most sellers don't include those anymore. Yes, Dinkie shapes are modify so unrigged items have to be custom fit if one changed the default shape. But, POSE STAND in the FS viewer is so easy to understand, yet what might the main human *newbie* avatars need it for other than a few items? It should be noted, however, that most sellers do not include a pose stand anymore, so it might be wise. Lots of freebie pose stand on the MP. Second Life Marketplace - free pose stand Edited February 19, 2023 by Silent Mistwalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 42 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said: Wait, is the pose stand feature for photography? Like you drop several poses in there and can swap them? Or just a single pose for adjusting items? Since editing worn items "freezes" my avatar, I rarely ever use pose stands for that. I just right-click, Edit, and shift things around (works great for mesh ears, jewelry, accessories, hats, etc.). Only if I'm doing something more complicated (alpha magic) will I just fire up a static pose in my inventory so I can see which bits and pieces of my body need to go without wiggling all over the place. FS eliminated the need to use Avatar Appearance and a static pose from your inventory for adjusting clothing, attachments etc. I use the FS poser in place of Appearance and/or static poses/stands. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Mistwalker Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: Perhaps, but..if they are already THERE, then helping a new person find them is perhaps simpler than "go to the MP and search", etc. Lots of steps there..vs "go to your Library". Have you ever tried to get LL to add an object to the Library? It's not going to happen. We're stuck with the less than 5000 Library items. In the nearly 20 years I've been in SL, LL has updated the Library a grand total of once (1) when mesh was introduced. Edited February 19, 2023 by Silent Mistwalker 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benchthis Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said: 46 minutes ago, benchthis said: Not sure if adding objects directly to the linden library would be most effienct Perhaps, but..if they are already THERE, then helping a new person find them is perhaps simpler than "go to the MP and search", etc. 46 minutes ago, benchthis said: The attached images is examples of the current process to get to the free objects in the marketplace. First open marketplace, search anything, scroll down and on the left side for maximum price key in 0 and below that check box the option to not show demos and wala I have 490 results. If linden and mole objects were located in the marketplace would make redelivery more efficient. Lots of steps there..vs "go to your Library". True took me 3 years to learn that trick. I'm all for making the viewer's Linden inventory more efficient, useful, & fun to use. A lot of very nice mesh clothing is with old cloths in the system inventory? Make the existing free objects in inventory more accessible. Maybe a folder with instructions for how to submit models to be added. When I think of the viewers system Linden inventory. I think of creations built by lindens/moles, and friends of each. Maybe a community inventory library within the inventory system with vetted resources separate from the linden inventory? Community inventory system could include inventory organization folder structures based on level of desired inventory organization? Edited February 19, 2023 by benchthis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayashe Ninetails Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said: FS eliminated the need to use Avatar Appearance and a static pose from your inventory for adjusting clothing, attachments etc. I use the FS poser in place of Appearance and/or static poses/stands. Oh neat. I usually prefer using photography poses since I adjust my alphas for the photos I'm taking. Like my normal AO might work fine as is, but if I plan to hold my arms/legs in certain positions, I might need a more customized alpha layout, so I need to see what my body and clothes are going to do once in position. And since I do most of my photography and posing outside of Firestorm, I had nooooo idea that feature existed! For basic attachment adjustment, though, I don't use anything. I just edit the object while it's sitting on my face or head or whatever and it freezes my AO automatically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said: Lots of freebie pose stand on the MP. Second Life Marketplace - free pose stand Rezzing it is the problem. Not a problem with Firestorm, or with my proposal to mimic Firestorm. Unless that's not what you meant. ETA: I may be using the "wrong words" and should be saying "Firestorm Poser". Words are HARD. Edited February 19, 2023 by Love Zhaoying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Love Zhaoying Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said: Have you ever tried to get LL to add an object to the Library? It's not going to happen. We're stuck with the less than 5000 Library items. In the nearly 20 years I've been in SL, LL has updated the Library a grand total of once (1) when mesh was introduced. Nope. But, the implied subtext of my proposal is: what percentage of people even know about the Library or go looking in it? i only did recently for the first time in years because I wondered if there were swords and torches in there. So, a sub-suggestion would be: Include the Library existence in edumakashun. Edited February 19, 2023 by Love Zhaoying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliseAnne85 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 26 minutes ago, Silent Mistwalker said: Lots of freebie pose stand on the MP. Second Life Marketplace - free pose stand Thanks! I could put a link in the notecard. I had completely forgotten about how unrigged items used to come with pose stands but they hardly ever do anymore, and I didn't realize the LL viewer doesn't have one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliseAnne85 Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 13 minutes ago, Ayashe Ninetails said: For basic attachment adjustment, though, I don't use anything. I just edit the object while it's sitting on my face or head or whatever and it freezes my AO automatically Yeah, it does but some items I need to see on the POSE STAND or I'll click my avi too many times trying to get it right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flea Yatsenko Posted February 19, 2023 Share Posted February 19, 2023 Nux and having a mesh body included is going to really help with retention. The most expensive part of getting a good looking AV going is the after market head and body. It's also the first part of making an avatar, which means a new user is asked to easily pay over $40 for a head and body for something they don't know if they'll like or want to stay around for. Every other free to play game lets people get involved for nothing and slowly introduces the paid options. SL is the opposite, basically "spend L$5,000 on this body and L$5,000 on this head and we can start to pick out clothes and stuff." The initial cost of looking decent in SL absolutely kills retention. I'm sure many of you have tried to get friends into SL, only for them to wonder why they have to spend so much money just to NOT look like a total noob. SL's monetization is backwards, it should start out with some cheap and free stuff to get people involved, then work them up to really cool, rare, expensive stuff. Instead you can easily spend over L$10,000 or more just on a body and head. Only to start buying L$250 clothing accessories. Much easier to get someone buying accessories for L$250 if that's their first in world purchase, as opposed to convincing someone to spend the money on a mesh body and head. And if they want a better mesh body and head, which they will at some point, it won't be so intimidating and scary to drop so much money on it. There are lots of other things they can do to improve retention. But the initial cost is absolutely terrifying for new users. Even if they find fun stuff to do or cool people, they're going to be the odd ball newb looking user and their experience is going to suffer for it. It's also why so many people want to make money in SL, because everything seems so expensive and they think it's better to try and make money. I know the library exists but it's all sort of outdated and looks out of place compared to new stuff on the marketplace. SL has more than enough concurrent users, they have more than Final Fantasy XIV according to steam charts. But I think they are too spread out. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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