Is SL finished for win7 users ?

[cunomar]

4GB RAM soon to be 8gb and 64bit , i5 M520 has until now just about worked with the 32 bit download but the latest firestorm just crashes before it loads saying update graphics .

Asking because there really doesn't seem much point in trying other viewers .

[Night Foxpaws]

have you tried the official 1st party Second Life 32bit viewer? 

Unfortunately when it comes to 3rd party viewers, sometimes they may push out updates or features that don't always play nice depending on system configuration or don't test them much on older systems, I'd imagine probably less than Linden Labs does for their own viewer.

Alternatively can always roll back and keep using the previous Firestorm viewer version that worked for you as there isn't really any point to keep updating, unless there's a new feature you need or is required, as all that the latest firestorm update added was just bringing the profile layout more in line with Linden Lab's viewer profiles (it's worse imo), there may be other changes but that's the only one I personally noticed.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Night Foxpaws

[Rick Nightingale]

I'm on Win7x64. I think your issue is your system specs, not the OS unless it's just 32-bit it doesn't like. Firestorm, LL, Black Dragon and CoolVL all work for me.

I've only found one bug in FS (not LL's viewer) related to Windows 7. It's an odd one that causes it to wipe my entire cache folder every time I start the viewer if the cache is kept in the default location under appdata. The cure is simply to move it to another folder (I make a C:/FSCache folder and move it there).

Other than that as far as I can tell they all behave perfectly well on two very different Win 7x64 boxes. One is a decent gaming rig, 16GB ram, GTX1080, old i7-6700K CPU at 4.2GHz, decent mobo; the other PC is a tiny HP box (HP 800 G2 mini) with 16GB, built in graphics in the i7-6700 CPU. That's slow and limited but still runs it.

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Rick Daylight

[cunomar]

Just found this on the firestorm website

"Windows 8.1 and 10 and 11, 32bit and 64bit, are supported.
Earlier versions of Windows are not supported."

so yeah firestorm is dead for win7 .

Win8.1 is no longer hindered by the virus they call windows update so might try that once i've increased ram .

Edited February 6, 2023 by cunomar

[Rick Nightingale]

"Not supported" doesn't mean "won't work". I think if you can't run the viewer under Win 7, you aren't going to do any better with win 8 unless, perhaps, it's a driver issue for your GPU that isn't available any more for 7.

At least they haven't prevented FS from working on Windows 7, the way a lot of software is now that could run on it quite happily otherwise. I've modified a few installers to allow them to install on Win 7 for software that works perfectly. Yeah, "not supported"... but who needs support if it works?

I know the dreaded day of having to downgrade to Windows 10/11 and allow MS to own my PC is coming, but I'll resist as long as I can run the software I need to do what I want. And if that software is available on Linux... nuts to Microsoft's forced beta testing/spyware/advert delivery platform!

Have you heard the latest about MS forced updates? Now 'updates' are being used solely to scan your PC for other software versions and report back to MS. Should be illegal!

Edited February 6, 2023 by Rick Daylight

[Theresa Tennyson]

Windows 7 is finished for Windows 7 users.

[Rick Nightingale]

Why?

[Theresa Tennyson]

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-7-support-ended-on-january-14-2020-b75d4580-2cc7-895a-2c9c-1466d9a53962

Doesn't mean you can't use it. Doesn't mean anybody will do anything to make your life easier if you do though.

[Rick Nightingale]

The above is somewhat misleading. I still get security and other important updates from MS, as do a lot of other die-hard Win 7 users. In fact there's an update due in 5/6 days.

Yes, Win 7 is dead if you need some of the latest software which relies on features Win 7 just doesn't have and can't be made to have (sometimes it can - and I do!), or more often is just prevented from installing on 7 even though it would work, or if you need something more capable than the last generation of hardware that will run Win 7. If you say it's finished for the average user, I can't argue.

For us techie's, it's not finished yet though

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Rick Daylight

[Jules Catlyn]

Maybe a slightly dumb question but what would be the reason to keep using Windows 7?

[cunomar]

Win10 actually works , I used it for a couple of years thinking surely i will get used to the fact that it compares like win7 taking an elevator to the top of the Eiffel Tower and win10 instead whips people forcing them to climb the stairs , but yeah it works .

But only until the next forced update whereby all the junk you don't want and turned off get turned back on again . It tries to change your browser and your printer no longer works but it only takes about 8 dedicated hours to undo all the damage the update caused and so you will be good for a few days , or maybe a week , or sometimes even a whole month before a forced update again trashes your computer .

My win7 laptop is very old (15 years?) and still does all i need from a computer .

Its not liking SL any more but am i going to pay upwards of £600 just so i can login to SL ....................

If you put your car into a garage for a valet it should be returned to you clean . Should the garage instead choose to give your car a full paint respray , then the result above all and any other consideration can only be called criminal damage .

My car/computer = my choice .

[belindacarson]

17 minutes ago, Rick Daylight said:

The above is somewhat misleading. I still get security and other important updates from MS, as do with a lot of other die-hard Win 7 users. In fact there's an update due in 5/6 days.

Yes, Win 7 is dead if you need some of the latest software which relies on features Win 7 just doesn't have and can't be made to have (sometimes it can - and I do!), or if you need something more capable than the last generation of hardware that will run Win 7. If you say it's finished for the average user, I can't argue.

For us techie's, it's not finished yet though

 

Well said, well said

[panterapolnocy]

1 hour ago, cunomar said:

Just found this on the firestorm website

Please tell where exactly, as it needs to be corrected. Minimum Windows version is Win10 according to https://wiki.firestormviewer.org/fs_system_requirements - Windows 8 lost manufacturer's support earlier this year.

58 minutes ago, Rick Daylight said:

At least they haven't prevented FS from working on Windows 7

And FS team won't prevent it - if it works, it works. Same happened with Phoenix Viewer - it just died off naturally, becoming more and more broken over time. But if an error (any error) couldn't be reproduced on Windows 10 or 11, then the user will be told to upgrade to the newer, supported, OS version. The same thing would happen while using unofficial / patched installers (in this case a clean reinstall may be suggested, even, to make sure there would be no malware smuggled into executable).

58 minutes ago, Rick Daylight said:

but who needs support if it works?

Visit Firestorm Support English group chat for a day.  

12 minutes ago, cunomar said:

My car/computer = my choice .

Of course it is your choice and no one will force you to do anything. But you cannot expect a car mechanic to install an engine from a brand new Ferrari into a small city car from the 1950s.

Edited February 6, 2023 by panterapolnocy

[shireena1]

If you can run a 64bit OS, you could try a linux distro like ubuntu, firestorm viewer has a linux viewer..

But getting back on to the topic, win 7 is currently "sunsetting".

You can still use it, you just won't get updates or support anymore.

[Rick Nightingale]

26 minutes ago, Jules Catlyn said:

Maybe a slightly dumb question but what would be the reason to keep using Windows 7?

Not a dumb question at all.

To add to what @cunomar said...

Have you read the T&C? You literally sign over right to anything you do and store on the PC to MS. Seriously, if they want to take your CC details and publish them on a blog, the T&C would allow that. Of course they wouldn't, but... what might they do with all your data that is constantly fed to them from Windows 10/11? It's hard to put it all here, but if you ever get really bored, read some of the techie forums like MDL where they monitor data harvesting and the like.

There's a reason MS had to make some special versions of Windows 10 (like ltsc/ltsb), only available to large, commercial users. It does not have things like forced updates, a lot of the data harvesting is disabled or can be, and instead of MS owning your PC, you can still make changes to it without MS reverting them at its whim. The public get to beta test updates before they are even offered to commercial users. That's why updates break things so often... ordinary users are the testing platform.

Plus, I'm just one of those people who objects to the lengths companies are allowed to go to to get our data and sell us things. I'll always rebel, even when it makes my life harder. Although, given how customised my installation is, trying to use Windows 10 really would be a downgrade for me that would make my computing life more difficult.

I have used Win 10, btw. I have it installed in a virtual machine on VMWare Workstation and use it on occasion, if only to see what the latest updates bring out of morbid curiosity. I've never had the thought that it might be worth installing for real.

 

Edited February 6, 2023 by Rick Daylight

[cunomar]

No updates is the best feature miscrosoft windows could possibly offer the user if they want to stop forcing people to buy Apple .

[Rick Nightingale]

9 minutes ago, panterapolnocy said:

Visit Firestorm Support English group chat for a day.  

Been there, done that. I'm in the preview group too since I run all of those when they are out. Yep - if I say I'm on Win 7 on the support group, that's the end of the help even if the issue is nothing to do with Win 7. (I'm not dumb enough to not check it out first on my VM - asking for help is my last resort.)

[Rick Nightingale]

4 minutes ago, shireena1 said:

You can still use it, you just won't get updates or support anymore.

Incorrect - you can still get updates. I do, every month. There's one due in six days.

[Theresa Tennyson]

12 minutes ago, cunomar said:

No updates is the best feature miscrosoft windows could possibly offer the user if they want to stop forcing people to buy Apple .

Theresa Tennyson uses a Mac and works and giggles at the idea of Apple being the "non-evil" alternative.

[Rick Nightingale]

I think Apple taught Microsoft half of what they now know. Google/Android the other half.

Seriously, my heart fell when I saw the previews and early news of Windows 10. Software/addware/spyware as a service - a service that is to no-one but the company.

Edit: I run my own DNS server here, and occasionally look at the logs for a laugh. My wife's iphone is repsonsible for more traffic, by a large margin, to the internet (while hardly used except for SMS and calls) than my four active PCs, three Echo dots and two android phones all together

Edited February 6, 2023 by Rick Daylight

[cunomar]

The ipad i hate because its touchscreen but evidently as never once been asked to fix the girlfriend's despite 4 grandchildren , the eldest being 9 and having used it without direction since before he could walk says it all .

Medicine might be described as evil but nobody cares so long as it works .

[Rick Nightingale]

Every Apple update breaks my wife's email app (Apple's built-in one) until the thing is hard-rebooted. Plus it fails to send messages so often it's ridiculous. The Apple Messaging service is supposed to fall back to SMS if need be, but 75% of the time it just fails the message. Over and over.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Rick Daylight

[shireena1]

23 minutes ago, Rick Daylight said:

Incorrect - you can still get updates. I do, every month. There's one due in six days.

Doh! you must have windows 7 extended support.. Normal updates finished Jan 14 2020 afaik.

[Rick Nightingale]

Yep, @shireena1.

That's the thing - MS wants people to 'know' that Windows 7 is dead. When the only real reason for its demise is MS wants it that way. Same as normal people aren't allowed the versions of Windows 10 that allow them to keep control of their own PCs. Most people don't even know those other versions exist.

They forced hardware makers to stop providing Win 7 drivers on pain of being taken off the 'good list' years ago. It wasn't the hardware makers decision. Intel went along with it wholeheartedly because they got to sell a load of new CPUs. I watched it all happen.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Rick Daylight

[cunomar]

XP still works for most peoples needs , in fact that tiny bit of memory is likely still what makes a modern laptop work , it just needs another 15+ gb memory for bloatware .