Why are clothes drawn on the body (textures?) and alpha masks for invisible body parts can't be seen by me and other avatars?

[Iwilltestit19000]

 So the others see me nude or with ripped clothes. :(( forced to wear certain sizes of certain much larger clothes.

Just to help you better figure it out, a SL friend collected all the observations and wrote it for me.
(Sorry if I don’t use the correct SL vocabulary)
 
- My avatar is a very classic SL Standard body . Not a “mesh avatar”. No script on my avatar.
 
*Note: I created another profile test,  just to see what others can see or not. And 2 SL friends confirmed too.

- The new avatar from new profile has no problem textures / alpha masks problems on the same machine:

- And Same problem on SL viewer and Firestorm  viewer; So my SL viewer app has no problem.

- clothes textures (drawn on the shape) and alpha masks can't be seen anymore by me & others: suits, shorts, some 1 size pants, panties, bras with 1 size (layer-based" textured ?)
I can see it only if I reshape  or change my avatar. But others can't see anyway . And if I log in again, I can’t see it too. 
 
- When clothes are sold with different sizes (Classic/Mesh  or brands?) , me and others can see them
Hats, belts, jewelry, shoes... are always seen by others too.
 
- Even on the Firestorm menu > "Basic avatar " : when removing the long dress , we can't see the invisible alpha.
 
menu “Me”:
 "avatar heath" > Basic girl test : can't see the top suit. Just the dress
 "avatar heath" : tested all options  and recreated LSL bridge: Same problem
 Take off Hubs : removed all hubs and restarted: same
 "Choose an avatar ; Fantasy : "Rhiannon" with bow and horse : alpha for dresses invisible 
 
- Right click → Appearance → Tex refresh.: same problem
- Rebake (Ctrl-Alt-R) or highlights blended alpha CTRL+ALT+T : same problem
 
- Using only 1 alpha mask to test.. RLVA pref disabled: same problem

 -  basic skin color changed by another basic one: same 

- 2 demo body mesh then tested with alpha masks and textured clothes: same problem!!!
 
Hypothesis:
1. When changing the group name, we could "change"  the server, solving the problem: but same problem for me.
 
2. Clothes could be attached to hubs . Instead of the middle body. No idea how I could check that ???.
 
 
If you have suggestions for tests, my friend and me would appreciate to try it on SL viewer or Firestorm 
 
I'm completely lost. If I can’t change my clothes I will leave this game. 
Thank you for your help 

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Iwilltestit19000
To add more comments about my technical problem. More precision for SL vocabulary

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

I'm confused by what you describe as a "standard mesh" avatar, not a "mesh avatar", do you mean you are a basic system avatar?

If the latter, then I too am at a loss for what could be causing it.

If however you are indeed using a mesh avatar set to Bakes on Mesh, check the texture settings on your body and see what alpha mode is set to. It should be "alpha blending" with the mask value set to 128.

There are some reports of mesh bodies having the alpha mode reset to "none" and the results are exactly ass you describe.

Edited December 28, 2021 by Profaitchikenz Haiku

[Iwilltestit19000]

Tks a lot @Profaitchikenz for your answer
I mean a  basic system avatar. I will change on description. to avoid other confusions. 

I will test your solution as soon as possible. Tks again

[Theresa Tennyson]

Look in your inventory for a folder labeled "Current Outfit." You should have exactly one; no more and no less. If you have more than one you need to have a support ticket taken out to delete the extra ones.

Also, if you've ever used a non-standard viewer (i.e. a "light", non-graphical one) it may have created a folder that conflicts with the "Current Outfit" folder. The "Current Outfit" folder is on the servers and controls how others see you. The things you see in "Edit My Outfit" are only local changes until they're uploaded to the Current Outfit folder.

[Iwilltestit19000]

Tks Theresa 
Only 1 "Current Outfit."
And right. I have ever used a non-standard viewer

When an alpha or texture is sent on  "Current Outfit" folder , me and and others can't  see it on my avatar 
Tks for the test 

[Iwilltestit19000]

1 hour ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

I'm confused by what you describe as a "standard mesh" avatar, not a "mesh avatar", do you mean you are a basic system avatar?

If the latter, then I too am at a loss for what could be causing it.

If however you are indeed using a mesh avatar set to Bakes on Mesh, check the texture settings on your body and see what alpha mode is set to. It should be "alpha blending" with the mask value set to 128.

There are some reports of mesh bodies having the alpha mode reset to "none" and the results are exactly ass you describe.

Sorry to ask. Which menu for "alpha blending" mask value set to 128 please 

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

If the body is a mesh one, look for where it is in your inventory with "worn" shown, right click the inventory entry and choose "edit". In the edit floater, make sure "select aace/Select texture" is showing, then choose the texture tab. You will see a field for alpha ode.

I you can't find an object in your inventory named for a body of sorts being worn then this is a system avatar and the above advice will not be applicable.

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

I got inworld after Windows finally got tired of churning my machine around updating something .

I too am a standard avatar, like the OP. I looked in all the appearance edit options but could see nothing where it might be possible to accidentally set a body t be non-BOM.

I can suggest a simple test:

Create a new shape under BodyParts. Wear it.

Apply a different skin (if you only have the one look on the Marketplace for some freebees).

See if a fresh shape with new skin still gives the same problem to you and other people viewing you.

 

ETA

I am assuming you have a recent PC with a good enough graphics card: the only time I have heard of this problem was with somebody who was trying to use an old 32-bit PC with an old NVidia 32-bit PCi Express card that would not show alpha masks to them, but everybody viewing them saw the masks working.

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Profaitchikenz Haiku

[Rowan Amore]

Are you using one of the avatars from the library as your base avatar?  Some of those ARE mesh avatars.  You wouldn't be able to see clothing textures on them.  They aren't BOM enabled as far as I remember.  Putting any systems layers on them would not show on the avatar.

Perhaps a picture would be helpful for us trying to determine what might be the issue.

[Iwilltestit19000]

3 hours ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

I got inworld after Windows finally got tired of churning my machine around updating something .

I too am a standard avatar, like the OP. I looked in all the appearance edit options but could see nothing where it might be possible to accidentally set a body t be non-BOM.

I can suggest a simple test:

Create a new shape under BodyParts. Wear it.

Apply a different skin (if you only have the one look on the Marketplace for some freebees).

See if a fresh shape with new skin still gives the same problem to you and other people viewing you.

 

ETA

I am assuming you have a recent PC with a good enough graphics card: the only time I have heard of this problem was with somebody who was trying to use an old 32-bit PC with an old NVidia 32-bit PCi Express card that would not show alpha masks to them, but everybody viewing them saw the masks working.

 

Hi again Profaitchikenz
Tks for your interest. I confirm to have a recent computer with a good graphic card. And 1 of the SL friend who tested with me seems to have a better one. 
I will test with new shape as soon as possible tomorrow and inform you
 

[Iwilltestit19000]

2 hours ago, Rowan Amore said:

Are you using one of the avatars from the library as your base avatar?  Some of those ARE mesh avatars.  You wouldn't be able to see clothing textures on them.  They aren't BOM enabled as far as I remember.  Putting any systems layers on them would not show on the avatar.

Perhaps a picture would be helpful for us trying to determine what might be the issue.

Hi Rowan

Using avatar "Maria" from Library 
 Is BOM =" Bakes on Mesh". I will try to read about that
Tomorrow I'll try to see how to figure it by picture and post it. Tks a lot 

[Iwilltestit19000]

Hi Profaitchkenz 

I tested by creating a new shape under BodyParts + new Skin: same problem 
When I will come back from holidays , I will check on SL Viewer to test  Mesh Demo , then right click the inventory > "edit". > "select aace/Select texture" > the texture tab > "alpha blending" with the mask value set to 128. Right? 
 

A new discover: Firestorm Menu Help > Enable viewer UI Hints
Now, I can see the alpha + textured clothes, but not the others!!!

 

19 hours ago, Profaitchikenz Haiku said:

I got inworld after Windows finally got tired of churning my machine around updating something .

I too am a standard avatar, like the OP. I looked in all the appearance edit options but could see nothing where it might be possible to accidentally set a body t be non-BOM.

I can suggest a simple test:

Create a new shape under BodyParts. Wear it.

Apply a different skin (if you only have the one look on the Marketplace for some freebees).

See if a fresh shape with new skin still gives the same problem to you and other people viewing you.

 

[Iwilltestit19000]

Ho!  Who could help me please?

For my Mesh Demo test , when I right right click the inventory > "edit". >
I can't find "select aace/Select texture"  button or menu !!!
I have only "Select face" on SL : 
the texture tab >   non "alpha blending" field to apply mask value set to 128. !!!!

Here a picture to figure the initial problem 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Iwilltestit19000

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

You won't see a texture - select face set of options until you actually have an edit floater open.

I think you ought to post us details of your system, graphics card, etc, somebody here with relevant experience might spot something.

It's in the "help" menu, under "help - about"

 

[Rowan Amore]

I'd also be interested in what else is worn as your picture shows a folder...clothes other as having something worn also.  We're not seeing ALL that is worn.  A picture of Current Outfit would be more helpful.

[Iwilltestit19000]

In that case  @Rowan I only wear bitsy clothes and Maria-Hair to come back to a basic situation 

 

[Iwilltestit19000]

Hi  @Profaitchikenz Haiku I will test Sunday and come back with my configuration. 
Tks to all for your help

[animats]

For this sort of problem, I'd suggest going to Firestorm Help Island and letting one of the helpers talk you through fixing the problem.

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

I have seen this problem once myself,  and also have been asked about it regarding the Ruth bodies

Instance 1  is such an unusual situation I doubt it's the answer to this case, but what I saw was

An old 32-bit machine running Linux with an Nvidia 32-bit GPU, using Wine to run the LL viewer, also a couple of TPVs. No alpha masks showed at all although everything else did.

The Ruth bodies issue was in the Opensim grids, where TP-ing to different grids sometimes cause the alpha mode of the Ruth body to be switched to ""none" on arrival. It sounds similar to the already=reported issue in SL that crops up intermittently, hence my suggesting it as the first point of investigation. (I gave the person experiencing the problem a script to drop in the Ruth body which would set the faces to Alpha_masking with Cutoff 128 as the best workaround I could think of.

However, the OP might be running a strange GPU and therefore experiencing the first instance I described, so I am hoping they wil return and either say they sorted it or post the machine details.

[arabellajones]

I did notice, Sunday, some erratic behaviour with alpha-maps and classic clothing on a BoM Mesh body. It settled eventually and could have been merely very slow texture delivery over the network, either AWS-specific or the wider internet. I suppose it could be related to the very long sim server uptimes we have had since the last restarts.

I have no answers, but there are times the Second Life system does things wrong.

[Iwilltestit19000]

Hi In that case  @Rowan Amore, sorry my message was never sent !!
 I only wear bitsy clothes and Maria-Hair to come back to a basic situation 

>>> Rowan Amore
I'd also be interested in what else is worn as your picture shows a folder...clothes other as having something worn also.  We're not seeing ALL that is worn.  A picture of Current Outfit would be more helpful.

[Iwilltestit19000]

HI  @Profaitchikenz Haiku 
Sorry to answer only now. As requested, tested on a more powerful computer from my father. Same problem of clothes

 But remember that 4 others player confirmed to me that I had the clothing problem, 2 of which I can absolute trust.
Moreover, some have told me without asking the question to them
One of the players confirms me that he has a computer to play, very powerful from 2021.

Configuration of this computer: 

Second Life Release 6.5.2.567427 (64bit)

CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4712HQ CPU @ 2.30GHz (2294.57 MHz) - Memory: 16342 MB

OS Version: Microsoft Windows 10 64-bit (Build 19042.1387)

Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation - Quadro K1100M/PCIe/GDDR5 

Windows Graphics Driver Version: R418 U9 NVIDIA 426.78

 

Window size: 1920x1080, Font Size Adjustment: 96pt - UI Scaling: 1 - Draw distance: 128m

LOD factor: 1.125 - Render quality: 3 - Advanced Lighting Model: Enabled

Texture memory: 512MB - Disk cache: Max size 204.0 MB (80.3% used)

 

J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.10.4 Audio Driver Version: FMOD Studio 2.01.07 Dullahan: 1.12.3.202111032221 CEF: 91.1.21+g9dd45fe+chromium-91.0.4472.114

  Chromium: 91.0.4472.114 LibVLC Version: 3.0.16 Voice Server Version: Vivox 4.10.0000.32327

 

Bandwidth: 10000kbit/s - Packets Lost: 4/1,092 (0.7%) - January 13 2022 05:49:23

 

[Profaitchikenz Haiku]

4 minutes ago, Iwilltestit19000 said:

Disk cache: Max size 204.0 MB (80.3% used)

Is this your SL cache or just something specific to the Graphics card?

[Aishagain]

I note that at least one of the computers was running an Nvidia Quadro GPU with a very old driver.  I cannot help but wonder if that might give alpha rendering issues.

The whole issue centres, as far as I can see, on alpha rendering. The view of the OPs inventory "worn" tab clearly shows that alphas were worn but they were clearly NOT being rendered.  Not being familiar with non Firestorm  viewers, I don't  know if there is a setting that blocks alpha rendering.

Corruption of the OPs texture cache seems to be ruled out by the observations of others.  The remaining causes seem to be limited to SL issues and I have nothing to offer there.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Aishagain

[arabellajones]

One thing to check, on the BoM mesh body, is how the alpha map is handled. The usual three options are Alpha Blending, Alpha Masking (with a numeric setting) and None. I am not sure that every BoM mesh body allows these to be changed, but if they don't I can't see how the permissions would work. The None option, and Alpha Masking set to zero, would block alpha rendering.

I did notice an Alpha Map doesn't use the recently introduced new face for one arm, which allows a classic avatar to have differently-textured arms. I was able to work out a fix for that particular mesh body/clothing combination, and I can see how somebody could mess up the critical Alpha settings.