rlv viewers?

[LipstickSuccubus]

okay im really pissed off right now.

i been trying to use firestorm and because of it i got many blue screens to where i had to factory reset my laptop i followed all of firestorms advice and got more BSOD after that now after finding out the stupid thing caused my hardware to be corrupted and now ill have to send my laptop away to be fixed...im done with firestorm...is there any other rlv viewers out there? 

 

ps my laptop is a gaming laptop and i had no issues before discovering firestorm.

[Emma Krokus]

You can try Singularity Viewer (RLV enabled by default) - I have been using Build 8193 which is a Singularity Beta version with no issues since February. There are later version but I have not updated because I was told there is an issue with offline notices which is not yet resolved. (Apologies to SIngularity's team if I got this wrong!)

I am sorry to hear about your laptop woes. To be honest though, I really doubt Firestorm messed with your laptop - from what I hear, a huge majority of SL residents use it and there would be a huge outcry if it corrupted people's devices. It may help if you post your system specs here to get advice - there are some very knowledgable people amongst forumites here.

Good luck!

Emma  

[LipstickSuccubus]

thanks ill check it out,...after i get my laptop back  also here the specs.....   OMEN by HP - 17t Laptop       •17.3" diagonal FHD IPS anti-glare WLED-backlit (1920 x 1080) •1 TB 7200 rpm SATA •8-cell 82 Wh Lithium-ion Battery •802.11b/g/n/ac (2x2) Wi-Fi® and Bluetooth® 4.2 combo •HP Wide Vision HD Camera with dual array digital microphone •Full-size island-style backlit keyboard with numeric keypad •No DVD or CD Drive •Intel® Core™ i7-8750H (2.2 GHz, up to 4.1 GHz, 9 MB cache, 6 cores) + NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1050 (2 GB GDDR5 dedicated) •8 GB DDR4-2666 SDRAM (1 x 8 GB) •Windows 10 Home 64 •No Optane •Security Software Trial •Office Software Trial

[Emma Krokus]

@Whirly Fizzle - any reason LipstickSuccubus had issues running Firestorm on her laptop?

(Whirly knows everything about Firestorm and more!)

Edited July 9, 2020 by Emma Krokus

[Nick0678]

So far in the whole planet there's no piece of Software that can break Hardware. From what you say you either have RAM issues, HDD issues , under voltage issues or even board soldering issues. It needs to be examined physically.

The technicians will take care of it..

Edited July 9, 2020 by Nick0678

[Wulfie Reanimator]

25 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

So far in the whole planet there's no piece of Software that can break Hardware. From what you say you either have RAM issues, HDD issues , under voltage issues or even board soldering issues. It needs to be examined physically.

The technicians will take care of it..

It's absolutely false to claim that software can't destroy hardware. Software can control hardware in a way that can permanently damages it. PCs are all about software controlling hardware. (Drivers, fan controls...)

Certain BSODs can be triggered simply by trying to access a region of memory that doesn't exist. Firestorm already has the occasional pointer-related crash, but it's impossible for us as the simple end-user to figure out the exact cause of a BSOD. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Nick0678]

9 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

It's absolutely false to claim that software can't destroy hardware. Software can control hardware in a way that can permanently damage it. PCs are all about software controlling hardware. (Drivers, fan controls...)

Certain BSODs can be triggered simply by trying to access a region of memory that doesn't exist. Firestorm already has the occasional pointer-related crash.

Trying to access a region of memory that doesnt exist means application is RUNNING... that won't happen when it doesn't, right.

She already said she gets bluescreens even after formatting/factory reset the PC. (which means hardware has failed due to a whole lot of reasons)

Moving on.. The technicians will diagnose and fix/replace whats necessary.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Nick0678

[Wulfie Reanimator]

4 minutes ago, Nick0678 said:

Trying to access a region of memory that doesnt exist means application is RUNNING... that won't happen when it doesn't, right.

She already said she gets bluescreens even after formatting/factory reset the PC. (which means hardware has failed due to a whole lot of reasons)

Moving on.. The technicians will diagnose and fix/replace whats necessary.

Yes, if software manages to damage the hardware, removing that software and doing a factory reset won't fix anything. The problem is now (assumed to be) in the hardware. Nothing short of new physical replacements will fix it now.

As you say, the techs will do that if necessary. 

[Nick0678]

50 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Yes, if software manages to damage the hardware, removing that software and doing a factory reset won't fix anything. The problem is now (assumed to be) in the hardware. Nothing short of new physical replacements will fix it now.

As you say, the techs will do that if necessary. 

Which means that if Firestorm is able to do that, then Firestorm will also break the new replacement part due to malicious / bad coding.

And we both know that is not the case and won't happen.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

1 minute ago, Nick0678 said:

Which means that if Firestorm is able to do that, then Firestorm will also break the new replacement part due to malicious / bad coding.

And we both know that is not the case and won't happen.

Why do you have such a strong need to defend a statement like "no software in the planet has ever broken hardware?"

[Love Zhaoying]

3 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

Why do you have such a strong need to defend a statement like "no software in the planet has ever broken hardware?"

Because, when caught being "wrong" (whether obviously wrong, or with no factual basis), some people just like to "double down".

[Nick0678]

Because we simply both know that Firestorm or whatever is not the problem here. It's a faulty part due to whatever possible reason.

The solution could even be as simple as taking out the RAM modules cleaning their metal contacts and reinstalling them.

As long as everything happens exactly as the user has informed.

[Wulfie Reanimator]

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Because, when caught being "wrong" (whether obviously wrong, or with no factual basis), some people just like to "double down".

But why?

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Wulfie Reanimator said:

1 minute ago, Love Zhaoying said:

Because, when caught being "wrong" (whether obviously wrong, or with no factual basis), some people just like to "double down".

But why?

People love holding onto their beliefs.  And, they hate being wrong. And, they hate "authority" (people who may challenge their beliefs and say they're wrong). Ironically, we ("royal we") heard about software that could mess up hardware many, many years ago. If it was true then, why wouldn't it be true still? I think the person asserting the impossibility of this, perhaps was not alive in the earlier days of computing when it was common.

[Nick0678]

Things are simple if Firestorm is to be blamed then once again i will say , it will ruin the replacement part. Things are so simple.

And it simply won't happen. Like it or not.  You can keep arguing about it but thats it.

[Love Zhaoying]

Just now, Nick0678 said:

You can keep arguing about it but thats it.

Let's go! I got nothin' better to do!

[Madelaine McMasters]

1 hour ago, Nick0678 said:

So far in the whole planet there's no piece of Software that can break Hardware.

Iran would disagree.

Malfunctions or vulnerabilities in the OS can cause software to fail to protect the hardware from overheating. Malfunctioning or compromised thermal control software might disable fans or fail to throttle the CPU/GPU, resulting in thermal excursions sufficient to cause damage. In a properly designed, properly functioning, invulnerable system this should never happen. Not all systems are designed properly, not all systems function properly, not all systems are invulnerable.

[Nick0678]

10 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Iran would disagree.

Do you even know how Stuxnet works? There was no physical damage.

I am just going to quote your own post here

Quote

Siemens reports that in the first four months since discovery, the malware was successfully removed from the systems of 22 customers without any adverse effects

---

13 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Malfunctions or vulnerabilities in the OS can cause software to fail to protect the hardware from overheating. Malfunctioning or compromised thermal control software might disable fans or fail to throttle the CPU/GPU, resulting in thermal excursions sufficient to cause damage. In a properly designed, properly functioning, invulnerable system this should never happen. Not all systems are designed properly, not all systems function properly, not all systems are invulnerable.

Sure just name a Virus that has done exactly what it says.

This is going too far guys you all know that Second Life , Firestorm or whatever is not the issue for the users problem and you are posting unrelated stuff.

The technicians will fix her faulty part and she will be able to run whatever she likes after her PC is fixed, whether thats Firestorm, Singularity or whatever. Take care.

[Love Zhaoying]

39 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Iran would disagree.

Malfunctions or vulnerabilities in the OS can cause software to fail to protect the hardware from overheating. Malfunctioning or compromised thermal control software might disable fans or fail to throttle the CPU/GPU, resulting in thermal excursions sufficient to cause damage. In a properly designed, properly functioning, invulnerable system this should never happen. Not all systems are designed properly, not all systems function properly, not all systems are invulnerable.

I thought the virus damaged the centrifuges (or is that just what our gummint wanted us to think)?  (Which is not the computer hardware..but you knew that!)

[Madelaine McMasters]

18 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I thought the virus damaged the centrifuges (or is that just what our gummint wanted us to think)?  (Which is not the computer hardware..but you knew that!)

Yes, Stuxnet defeated safeguards in the control systems, destroying the centrifuges (Contrary to Nick's considerable miscomprehension of the Wiki page, removing malware from a system before does harm says nothing about the harm caused to the systems from which it was not removed.) Liken the centrifuge to a PC's cooling fans and you have a direct analogy to the vulnerability of modern desktop/laptop computers.

I designed patient monitors and defibrillators during my career, all of which could suffer hardware damage if the software malfunctioned. To ensure that wouldn't happen, all safety critical software was sequestered on separate microcontrollers that were not accessible to the field updatable system software. That safety critical software was purposely kept simple to ensure it was thoroughly testable. Other teams in my company placed their safety critical software under control of Windows NT Embedded, because they wanted field upgradeability for those functions. They had at least one field recall I'm aware of to address hardware failure (overcharged batteries, reducing cycle life) as a result of a bug in NT. I never had a recall.

Modern computers, laptops in particular, should be impervious to malware or software malfunction. My Macs sequester important system management functions in a separate controller chip (SMC) , accessible to MacOS under only the most secure of circumstances (OS update). My experience has been that this works well, but I have heard of compromises in years past. I have yet to see a software error on my Macs result in any sort of thermal overload. I have seen software cause the fans to spool to 100% and the GPU to start throttling (SL does that all the time). That's expected behavior.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Madelaine McMasters

[Wulfie Reanimator]

1 hour ago, Nick0678 said:

Siemens reports that in the first four months since discovery, the malware was successfully removed from the systems of 22 customers without any adverse effects

🤔

• Siemens stated that the worm has caused no damage to its customers,[26] but the Iran nuclear program, which uses embargoed Siemens equipment procured secretly, has been damaged by Stuxnet.[27][28]

You also left out the key part of the sentence you quoted. How disingenuous can you get?

• Despite speculation that incorrect removal of the worm could cause damage,[67] Siemens reports that in the first four months since discovery, the malware was successfully removed from the systems of 22 customers without any adverse effects.[65][68]

The removal process did not cause damage, but the mere existence of it (where it was intended) was already causing damage. Later:

• [Michael Hayden] believed it had been "a good idea" but that it carried a downside in that it had legitimized the use of sophisticated cyber weapons designed to cause physical damage.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Love Zhaoying]

10 minutes ago, Madelaine McMasters said:

Yes, Stuxnet defeated safeguards in the control systems, destroying the centrifuges (Contrary to Nick's considerable miscomprehension of the Wiki page, removing malware from a system before does harm says nothing about the harm caused to the systems from which it was not removed.) Liken the centrifuge to a PC's cooling fans and you have a direct analogy to the vulnerability of modern desktop/laptop computers.

I designed patient monitors and defibrillators during my career, all of which could suffer hardware damage if the software malfunctioned. To ensure that wouldn't happen, all safety critical software was sequestered on separate microcontrollers that were not accessible to the field updatable system software. That safety critical software was purposely kept simple to ensure it was thoroughly testable. Other teams in my company placed their safety critical software under control of Windows NT Embedded, because they wanted field upgradeability for those functions. They had at least one field recall I'm aware of to address hardware failure (overcharged batteries, reducing cycle life) as a result of a bug in NT. I never had a recall.

Modern computers, laptops in particular, should be impervious to malware or software malfunction. My Macs sequester important system management functions in a separate controller chip (SMC) , accessible to MacOS under only the most secure of circumstances (OS update). My experience has been that this works well, but I have heard of compromises in years past. I have yet to see a software error on my Macs result in any sort of thermal overload. I have seen software cause the fans to spool to 100% and the GPU to start throttling (SL does that all the time). That's expected behavior.

I love being right!

Before I landed current job (23 years, hoping for more), a job I interviewed with was "QC" testing for a pacemaker company. Having been sent to the interview "cold" with no info..it just felt wrong. I did not want the responsibility. Glad I kept looking, but also glad that industry (defibrillators, pacemakers, etc.) worked out for you!

[Love Zhaoying]

2 minutes ago, Wulfie Reanimator said:

🤔

• Siemens stated that the worm has caused no damage to its customers,[26] but the Iran nuclear program, which uses embargoed Siemens equipment procured secretly, has been damaged by Stuxnet.[27][28]

You also left out the key part of the sentence you quoted. How disingenuous can you be?

• Despite speculation that incorrect removal of the worm could cause damage,[67] Siemens reports that in the first four months since discovery, the malware was successfully removed from the systems of 22 customers without any adverse effects.[65][68]

The removal process did not cause damage, but the mere existence of it was already causing damage. Later:

• [Michael Hayden] believed it had been "a good idea" but that it carried a downside in that it had legitimized the use of sophisticated cyber weapons designed to cause physical damage.

It would seem "no damage except in Iran" where they had the "embargoed Siemens equipment".

[Nick0678]

13 minutes ago, Love Zhaoying said:

I thought the virus damaged the centrifuges (or is that just what our gummint wanted us to think)?  (Which is not the computer hardware..but you knew that!)

It was written to target specific logic boards of various industrial equipment and reprogram them with a faulty dataset (as long as they were connected to a computer of course) ,  thats why it caused so much damage to their industry and was manually installed. Somebody got paid well and had all the necessary info to do what they did.

Eventually they had to remove the infected hdds from the computers until they discover the rootkit and additional code and remove it manually.  Also reprogram the industrial logic boards to default. These stuff happen all the time. I had to deal in the past with similar cases and viruses in an agency that made about an 8 floor building with 2000 pc's unusable due to them having heavy load, for about a week. Anyway time to go for a drink in RL, take care all. Have fun and don't overanalise Iran , these things happen for specific reasons.

[Love Zhaoying]

1 minute ago, Nick0678 said:

2000 pc's unusable due to them having heavy load,

..but no damage..?