I have 2 suggestions

[Bonadea Avedon]

1st is i would really like an email letting me know of a review being posted

2nd i would also like an email letting me know one of my items has been flagged (which is a horrible sytem fyi) any jealous person can just flag an item with no re course or a re imbursement to us for lost sales wheen it is flageed for a invalid reason. I have had several items flagged for in corect category when it is clearly in the correct category. 

[Darren Scorpio]

I have always said that the flagging system is a joke. Of course the LL fangirls and fanbois will say that it works and that LL actually review every item that has been flagged and make a decision accordingly. I am convinced that LL does not review the items being flagged or are reviewed by very incompetent individuals who simply take down the item with no further review.

[Mickey Vandeverre]

Those are awesome suggestions Bonadea. 

I'll second that.

On the de-listing of your items...it sounds like Linden Lab is not acknowledging an abuse there, so you're probably going to have cover your azz best you can on your own.

In order to avoid lost sales, if it's possible.....you will need to pull up your store screen a few times a day.

If you're running promotions on the new products (I do) - use a blog for the pic and description, first....instead of linking directly to a marketplace page.

If you link directly to the marketplace page in your promotions, then once your product has been pulled - it will send your customers to main marketplace screen - and you don't want that.  So if they were able to at least see the product pic and description on your blog - with a LM to the inworld store - - you at least have something.

I've noticed that the mad flagger operates at certain times of the day.  Figure out what time that is, and start listing your products at other times of the day.  That way, you can at least get a half a day's worth of promotion out of your product.

If you do new product promotion.....might be best to let it sit on the market a few days before busting out the promotion.  I hate doing that - I like that promo busted out the minute it hits....but if your mad flagger sits there and waits for your new product to be posted every day.....you might have to do that.

I ran some test packaging a long time ago - at different times of day - and did some testing with categories - - this will help you figure out who your mad flagger is, often depending on what category they don't want you in, and how fast they pull that trigger.

I noticed that the mad flagger definitely does not want me in one category, so I simply stopped boxing stuff for that category.  I know, that's not fair.....but it really cut down on my aggravation level.

Be careful on running enhancements. 

If they are targetting you for the flagging - they will flag that item shortly after it hits the enhancement page - - so you have to watch this like a hawk or you're going to waste your enhancement money.

I could go on and on, but those are the most important things to watch.

 

 

[Suella Ember]

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Bonadea Avedon wrote:

... any jealous person can just flag an item with no re course or a re imbursement to us for lost sales wheen it is flageed for a invalid reason. I have had several items flagged for in corect category when it is clearly in the correct category. 

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If it's in a top level category you'll need to move it to a sub category. This will benefit both you (as it will give you greater exposure - sub category listings go into that sub category and the top level category) and will meet the listing guidelines and stop it from getting removed.

See the post from Dakota Linden here for more info:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Merchants/Why-does-SL-de-list-from-the-Market-Place/m-p/880587/message-uid/880587/highlight/true#U880587

If you are still unsure as to why an item was delisted or don't know what category it should go in, you can contact support. Again, see info from Dakota here:

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Merchants/Why-does-SL-de-list-from-the-Market-Place/m-p/871409/message-uid/871409/highlight/true#U871409

Also worthy of note is that if a 'jealous person' or competitor repeatedly flags your items without good reason, the flagging system will 'learn' their activity and ultimately ignore flags from them. So the flagging system cannot be abused in this way. LL have confirmed this on a couple of occassions.

I entirely agree though that email notifications are something we really need. It has been raised with LL a number of times and they have acknowledged the need, but we are still waiting!

P.S. @Darren. I hope that wasn't too fangirlish for you! :smileytongue: In all seriousness though - i've yet to see any real evidence of it not working. It works in the sense that most removals have a valid reason, it's just that merchants may not always agree with or recognise that reason. The main reason for removals seems to be incorrect category listings and, in particular, listing in the top level categories. It seems to me as though LL could do with sending out an email \ doing a blog post etc to remind merchants about how to use category listings which may go a long way to addressing some of the delisting issues.

[Darren Scorpio]

Suella, log in to marketplace with an alt, flag one of your own items for no particular reason, then come back here and tell us the result. Thanks.

[Mickey Vandeverre]

I'll have to disagree with contacting support.

They clearly do NOT know how to market my products.

And I definitely do NOT want them deciding what my product is or is not.  They don't have a clue who I sell that item to, and they don't have a clue what it is used for.

Unless they want to show up at my workshop every day, and spend a one hour consultation time with me BEFORE I design a product....then I am not asking them to determine what the product is AFTER I design it.

[Suella Ember]

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Darren Scorpio wrote:

Suella, log in to marketplace with an alt, flag one of your own items for no particular reason, then come back here and tell us the result. Thanks.

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I don't have an alt so I can't.

However, for the purposes of this test, I give you permission to go and flag one of my items if you wish. You have it in writing here that I give you permission and won't hold it against you (Same goes for anyone else reading this. Please feel free to flag one of my items at random to see what happens).

Of course, you'll have to trust my word on the results. I promise I'll honestly tell you whether it was delisted or not, but it's up to you whether you believe me or not. Also bear in mind that, as I understand it, if you go about incorrectly flagging for the purposes of such a test, you risk the system giving any future legitimate flags you make a lower priority and potentially ignoring your flags altogether.

[Mickey Vandeverre]

I'll explain how I determine categories on occasion, if there is any question, or if there is not a category available (often)

I type in a title description very similar to mine, and look to see which categories the others have listed their product in.

I kind of eyeball that percentages on that.

If 75% of the products on the first 3 pages (and these would be Top Sellers, meaning they were allowed to stay in that category for a long time period)....then I simply place the product (similar to theirs) into that category, with no qualms whatsoever.

Now....if you have a mad flagger on your hands....they will flag your item, then you have to debate that with support.

While you are doing that....the 75% of those products that stayed in that category forever.....simply do not have to deal with that.

Nor should they have to!  They are Top Sellers!  meaning they got the category correct for proper merchandising - gee whiz - how hard is that to grasp.

So now....you know that many other products similar to yours are  positioned to a decent selling category, while you were just forced to a less than prime category.

Really don't understand why that is so hard for people to grasp here.

[Darren Scorpio]

Make a throwaway alt. You don't have to come back and tell us the result if you don't want to but at least next time you maintain that this flagging system works you will think twice.

Some time ago in the SL merchants group in-world, I had to engage in an ugly debate with a person who was suggesting to another resident to flag an item if she was unsure if the item was appropriate or not. Her philosophy was "If you see an item and areunsure if it is inapproprietely placed or violates some LL rule, or simply you feel strongly about the item then flag it, and let LL decide." There are many people who feel this way, "Oh I am not sure if this is in the wrong place or violating anything so I'll just flag it anyway". Do you really think the understaffed LL will actually go through all the items that get flagged each day? it is much easier for them to take down everything that gets flagged without further review. This flagging system is a joke period, and it is being misused.

[Suella Ember]

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Darren Scorpio wrote:

Make a throwaway alt. You don't have to come back and tell us the result if you don't want to but at least next time you maintain that this flagging system works you will think twice.

Some time ago in the SL merchants group in-world, I had to engage in an ugly debate with a person who was suggesting to another resident to flag an item if she was unsure if the item was appropriate or not. Her philosophy was "If you see an item and areunsure if it is inapproprietely placed or violates some LL rule, or simply you feel strongly about the item then flag it, and let LL decide." There are many people who feel this way, "Oh I am not sure if this is in the wrong place or violating anything so I'll just flag it anyway". Do you really think the understaffed LL will actually go through all the items that get flagged each day? it is much easier for them to take down everything that gets flagged without further review. This flagging system is a joke period, and it is being misused.

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Well, I'm not going to make a throwaway alt just for the purposes of this. I personally don't believe it's a major problem and have never experienced any issues with my items being delisted. In all the time the Marketplace has been active I've had one item delisted. I can't remember exactly what it was but I wasn't 100% certain where it should go (it was a borderline item that could have potentially been relevant in a couple fo categories) I dropped a support ticket and got a response within the hour on where to put it. I was happy with that and went about my day.

However, I'll say loud and clear again right now to anyone reading this. Feel free to flag my items like crazy if you wish. I 100% promise you that if a load of my items start to get delisted I'll come back here and agree with you that there is a problem. There's a small posibility that one or two of my items might get delisted where there is some overlap between possible categories it could go in, but I very much doubt it would be any worse than that (if at all).

What I will say is that we could definitely do with a blog post or something from LL discussing this to explain exactly how the flagging process works and to highlight some key issues merchants need to be aware of (such as the categories issue).

I will also say that LL certainly need to be cautious where there are grey areas over when an item could or should be listed. It might be an interesting experiment for us to use this thread to detail any items any of us do get delisted detailing what the item was and what category we originally had it in. It might help us all to identify if we were using the wrong category, if it was a grey area, or if LL got it wrong.

 

[Mickey Vandeverre]

If you are NOT having to deal with it, then why must you come in here and make a case?

You have no basis for your case.

If you are not familiar with what is going on, then you certainly cannot defend a party or offer suggestions or in fact, just dismiss it.

I really don't see what the point of your comments are, since you have practically ZERO experience with this.  Why would you jump in and try to hinder others from explaining the problems and trying to deal with it?

[Suella Ember]

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Mickey Vandeverre wrote:

If you are NOT having to deal with it, then why must you come in here and make a case?

You have no basis for your case.

If you are not familiar with what is going on, then you certainly cannot defend a party or offer suggestions or in fact, just dismiss it.

I really don't see what the point of your comments are, since you have practically ZERO experience with this.  Why would you jump in and try to hinder others from explaining the problems and trying to deal with it?

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Mickey, I 'jumped in' to provide the OP with some links to official word from LL (Dakota) regarding one of the issues they presented. That's what I generally do when I see someone with a problem on the forums - help with whatever I can.

I subsequently seem to have found myself in the middle of a slanging match from some very upset people such as yourself. My own stupid fault really for actually trying to engage in a disucssion and present a personal point of view. I should know better by now!

I'm sure you have reasons for being upset and I'm not going to deny you the right to be upset. But please don't deny me the right to try to provide someone with some advice that might be helpful to them, or to share my perspective. 

With that said though, I'll leave you to it. I've given my advice. I've shared my perspective. People can use it however they wish

[Chelsea Malibu]

I agree Bonadea, they used to do it that way too. But, I have ranted on this issue before as well as the fact that we have no recourse for griefing reviews which many of us have had. You know,  your competition writes a bad review to lower your score or someone who had no basis for what they said other then the fact they have no idea how to use SL.

In all, Marketplace needs a lot but in the defense of LL, they do not have a lot of resources committed to Marketplace and they have been working hard on a lot of changes.  Over time and as long as we keep our concerns vocal, we will get there.

 

[Madeliefste Oh]

I fully support your suggestions.

For the second one please follow or vote for it at the jira: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-3482

[Josh Susanto]

An email telling me something was flagged would be a lot more useful than one telling me that something has been sold or delivered, especially if it was never actually delivered

It is pretty clear to me that the category/subcategory thing is mostly functioning at this point as a convenient excuse for people who want to delist items by flagging them. By now, I'm very familiar with this problem. 

(for example, although it's the tip of the iceberg....)

A post I made earlier (which was removed for officially different reasons) explained that my seamless block sculpt had been flagged for being in the wrong category. 

I have returned it to the category in which it was flagged, because I think it's just about the perfect example of something that should be in exactly that category.

I'm expecting it to get flagged again any time though. Somebody doesn't want anyone buying this thing, or at least not from me. If LL gives a damn, they have yet to make any official statement about it.

If you can't see the link, that probably means it got flagged again. If you want the thing free, either way, just ask. Giving it away defeats the abusive flagger, so I'm happy to do it.

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/seamless-block-sculpt-full-permissions/2215250

[Phil Deakins]

Placing an item in a category just because other similar items are in it is a mistake. The other items may be placed wrongly but haven't been flagged - and LL won't go looking. You should look through the categories and find the correct one for your item. The method you describe seems to be sensible, and probably works fine most of the time, but relying on it makes it hardly surprising that people post here, saying that their item was delisted because it was in the wrong category and yet other items just like it are still in that category.

(If you respond to this, don't trot out your silly argument that non-marketplace users know nothing and shouldn't comment. It detracts from the discussion which, of course, is what it's intended to do when counter arguments are in very short supply. We have fully functional reasoning and sense - as can be seen from our posts  )

[Ciaran Laval]

 

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Phil Deakins wrote:

Placing an item in a category just because other similar items are in it is a mistake. The other items may be placed wrongly but haven't been flagged - and LL won't go looking. You should look through the categories and find the correct one for your item. The method you describe seems to be sensible, and probably works fine most of the time, but relying on it makes it hardly surprising that people post here, saying that their item was delisted because it was in the wrong category and yet other items just like it are still in that category.

 

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Yes and no, I used to do this on ebay if I wasn't sure which category my item went in I'd search for similar, if I saw a category that stood out as being the correct one, even if it had fewer items, I'd list it there. However if there was no obvious category I'd go with the one most people were listing that item in.

Josh's example above is a good one, there's no obvious sub category for his item, so he's listed it in the lowest suitable category and I can find other items that don't have a suitable sub category that are listed where Josh has listed his item.

If he were to list his item in a sub category, he could still get flagged as that category really isn't suitable, so where does this leave people where there is no suitable sub category? Are they just supposed to not list items?

Actually that whole building components category is a bit of a mess, there are quite a few categories that items could fit into, no wonder people get confused about where to put items.

[Josh Susanto]

>If he were to list his item in a sub category, he could still get flagged as that category really isn't suitable,

Quite an important point I wish I had articulated myself, thanks. How does such an item NOT get flagged?

 

>Are they just supposed to not list items?

Apparently.

I considered relisting as "miscellaneous" or "everything else", but I think that's lazy, unhelpful, and also playing the flagger's game.

I guess in the long term, I could simply refrain from making anything that doesn't fit with absolute clarity into one of the subcategories.

Or we could persuade LL to administer a simpler list of categories such as:

guns- cars- houses- penises- shoes- fart animation - other

Or just:

shoes - other

 

 

[Justyn Blackburn]

Hi great suggestions so far

I also have some suggestions:

1. A blacklist of Marketplace would be great.

2. A better overview of all sold items would be great like making a CHART/GRAPH OF ALL SOLD ITEMS, which includes at least the value of all sold items with the  option of choosing the period of time. Also would be great to add a Purchasing Counter under the Ads Review, when you brows your own marketplace there should be under the reviews an another place for Sold Units. Like for example:

         [Picture]

---------------------------

Product Name

Reviews (5)

Sold Units (96)

Shop Name

Sold by Merchant Name

This should be only be seen by the own Merchant, who is browsing his own Marketplace / or not

 

3. A search system to look for specific sold items, which has to be inputted to the Top Selling Products Category. I always have to turn over several pages to look for a specific item to know how often it has been purchased.

4. It should be possible to search in the transaction list by using the USERNAME of the Customers. I always have to delete the dot, caz i copy and paste the usernames from the customers from the second life inworlds profile to the search in Transaction History Orders!

I hope you like my suggestions

Best Regardings Justyn

 

 

[Irene Muni]

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Darren Scorpio wrote:

I have always said that the flagging system is a joke. Of course the LL fangirls and fanbois will say that it works and that LL actually review every item that has been flagged and make a decision accordingly. I am convinced that LL does not review the items being flagged or are reviewed by very incompetent individuals who simply take down the item with no further review.

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Totally agree.

[Irene Muni]

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Madeliefste Oh wrote:

please follow or vote for it at the jira:

https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-3482

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watched/voted