An even smaller piece of the pie

[Desudesudesuka]

But really, I would like to discuss the recent changes but specifically with merchants. LL is asking for  even more money, but what does that mean for us?

Quote

Effective June 24, the fee for processing credit transactions (i.e. paying real money into a PayPal or Skrill account) will be 5% per transaction with a minimum fee of US$3 (there is no maximum fee).  The fee is currently 2.5% per transaction.

We're seeing doubled fees. This is just bad for merchants intending to withdraw money.

Quote

 

Limits

Group Memberships 

Old: 42

New: 35

 

And we're seeing this. This is not just bad for everyone not paying for premium, this is bad for everyone and will have a chilling effect on SL. This affects merchants in quite a major way, because we use groups for our stores.  Store groups are needed to supply updates, promotions, support, and even more through services like Caspervend. Up and coming merchants are going to be hit the hardest by this, given their groups may not offer as much benefit users may opt not to bother joining, or they may even be left. This affects sim owners, because they use groups for land management. This affects everyone not paying for premium, because they need to enter groups for rez permissions (like us for renting store locations) and to get benefits from merchants.

Those are just my thoughts, I'm interested in others take on this.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Desudesudesuka

[LustyLexxi Larimore]

I have had a discussion to a lot  of my customers so I'm not alone when I say people are not at all happy all across the board. The doubling of the processing fee will hit the small businesses inworld, there is  no doubt on that. I'm NOT going to change my prices because that is just unfair to my customers so I have already taken in ways  to combat the increase. Hopefully others will be able to do the same.

These changes just sometimes makes me wonder what LL is thinking...are they trying to chase people out of SL? There are so many people that have already left for a multitude of reasons including these issues here.

[Desudesudesuka]

Maybe they assume we'll go to Sansar when we will not. I have no consumer base there and I don't think anyone working in SL considers trying to start anew there, if it's even possible. I find it asinine that they believe they can go for a full subscription model as their game enters decline. A sub model is something that's good if it's growing, and if you have something to offer. The people with the most to offer in Second Life are the users to each other, not Linden Labs, even if they hold control over the servers.

[Kardargo Adamczyk]

Perhaps Linden Labs assumes that by lowering the tier prices they will add more concurrent users, more people owning/renting land, more people staying inworld longer because they own some land, a house and so on, in that case the pie only gets bigger as all those people need more furniture, clothing, hair and everything else... perhaps they assume that by lowering the tier prices people spend the money anyways, and the saved tier money flows into marketplace and inworld stores.

So yeah, you might get a thinner slice but of a bigger pie... and isn't that good for everyone?

[Elvina Ewing]

5 hours ago, LustyLexxi Larimore said:

These changes just sometimes makes me wonder what LL is thinking...are they trying to chase people out of SL? There are so many people that have already left for a multitude of reasons including these issues here.

SL is a sick dying cow, and has been for a few years now, and LL will milk every little drop out of it before it's dead. It is a slow process and will take a few more years, during which LL need to get as much out of it as they can. And they will. 2.5% cashout fee in 2018, 5% in 2019, probably 7.5% next year, or maybe right up to 10%... And why the hell not?? Who/what is gonna stop them? People will not all quit overnight. Do you want to quit now? Probably not. Me neither. Ask your neighbours and friends, they probably won't either. We can take it, we will, what else can we do. So it will take years for SL to die out, and in the meantime get used to the tightening measures on a yearly basis.

[Isilmeriel]

That's why this fee bump is worrying. Not because of the 2.5% itself, but just the business-as-usual tone of the announcement and the recent fee hike in 2018. Feels like annual fee hike is going to be the norm now (quoting from the announcement, "our ongoing efforts") until SL finally dies. 

They will keep raising taxes on us because they can, and there's not really anything we can do to discourage them realistically. Would creators quit SL if they increase fees by 3% or 5% every year? Eventually, maybe, after being milked for a few more years. But that's tomorrow's problem, for LL.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Isilmeriel

[Tails Wirefly]

So actually,

The slice of the pie they take is currently 6% (2.5% processing and 3.5% L$ sales fee)
And will increase to 8.5% if the proposed increase to 5% processing happens, this isn't far off that 10%, wouldn't be surprised to see a 1.5% increase in the future honestly.
This really sucks for everyone. Creators will either take the cost or pass it on to consumers, who already have to pay $1.5 per upload.
A $20 land cost reduction won't be impactful enough to cover the increased premium, the increased processing fee. (especially when it most likely won't be passed on by land barons)
I'm all for LL making money, it's good for all if they do, but this is pretty stupid.
Oh and knocking down groups for non premium in some attempt to make people buy into a price increased premium where we don't even get to keep our grandfathered status for longer than a year? Not sure if I will be keeping my premium when sub is up, no new features nothing worth keeping it for at ~$26 more.

edit: would rather give my 10 shiny new group slots back to non premiums, I don't need extra group slots, premium has plenty.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Tails Wirefly

[Yaruu]

1 hour ago, Tails Wirefly said:

So actually,

The slice of the pie they take is currently 6% (2.5% processing and 3.5% L$ sales fee)
And will increase to 8.5% if the proposed increase to 5% processing happens, this isn't far off that 10%, wouldn't be surprised to see a 1.5% increase in the future honestly.
This really sucks for everyone. Creators will either take the cost or pass it on to consumers, who already have to pay $1.5 per upload.
A $20 land cost reduction won't be impactful enough to cover the increased premium, the increased processing fee. (especially when it most likely won't be passed on by land barons)
I'm all for LL making money, it's good for all if they do, but this is pretty stupid.
Oh and knocking down groups for non premium in some attempt to make people buy into a price increased premium where we don't even get to keep our grandfathered status for longer than a year? Not sure if I will be keeping my premium when sub is up, no new features nothing worth keeping it for at ~$26 more.

edit: would rather give my 10 shiny new group slots back to non premiums, I don't need extra group slots, premium has plenty.

Non Premiums (Basic) users like me spent on average 20k lindens per month on the marketplace purchases, We are not really "FREE" users as many highlighted, and the reduced groups really bites . Im considering a cut down on time spent on SL, maybe have a spending limit of 1K Lindens(fingers crossed) per month after june.  I can imagine the creators and sellers having a harder time making lindens with the new rules and most probably less transactions due to exodus of Basic Users away from SL. Time for me to find another game worth paying for.

[Fox Wijaya]

50 minutes ago, Yaruu said:

Non Premiums (Basic) users like me spent on average 20k lindens per month on the marketplace purchases,

source ?

[Yaruu]

You can check your spendings at your Account - L$ Transaction History - set your filter to the maximum 28 days (that is the maximum available) and you will get your monthly expenses. 

[drusilladarkwillow]

20 hours ago, Yaruu said:

You can check your spendings at your Account - L$ Transaction History - set your filter to the maximum 28 days (that is the maximum available) and you will get your monthly expenses. 

Well as I read the post that Fox wants a source for, she's pretty much is saying that many people on average are spending that much but there really is no data for that and she should source something like that when she's adding in other people and not just herself.

 

I am a hobby creator and I have some breedables that I do. I cash out when I have enough to cover some unexpected bills irl or I keep it on my account to cover my tier and such. I know that some creators just write off those fees when they do their taxes as some have stated within the secondlife marketplace commerce group. Everything increases over time and I'm looking into processing fees and all that as I'm going to be opening my own bakery. Processing credit cards is not cheap at all and the fees is different for each card type which is why some cards aren't accepted by smaller merchants. There are about 14 groups that I'm in that I don't really need and could drop without an issue which would put me below 35 groups. As a premium member, I don't need 70 groups as I've never been one to be in a ton of groups to start off with. As a small merchant, I don't even bother with a store group, I do a subscriber instead. It saves everyone a space and lets be honest here, I don't send out a lot of notices anyways so my group would be one of the first few to be dropped.

 

I am happy that the land is getting cheaper, I have always wanted to own a full sim to play around with and that is starting to be closer to my price range. The cash out fee is a pain but it's easy to offset. Most merchants already have their MP items a bit more expensive then what it is inworld due to the fee that the MP takes out per sale. As a consumer, I don't mind when prices are increased as it doesn't change the quality of the work. I already love the store and will drop a good bit during my shopping sprees as those are the places where I'll stop at first. Stores come and go based on how much time that person has to spend on it and how their offline life is becoming. I already know of a few systems inworld who have been slowly raising prices as they grow before all of this and people still shop like crazy there. I haven't heard or seen any complaints about it from them.