Need help understanding mesh after 4 years away

[KathrynCiel]

I know there are a lot of little bits of topics on mesh, so please bear with me. I've been away for about four years and I almost feel like I am forced to switch to a mesh body, which really upsets me. I worked hard on my "classic" system body, and it took years of tweaking to get it where I like it. Now I come back and there are almost no "classic" system layer clothes to be had. Most all clothing has moved to mesh. 

My issue with mesh clothing is that it forces you into a pre-defined size. This is actually a less minor issue for my girls than my male avatar, as the women's mesh clothing comes in a variety of size options. But my guy, he's a BIG DUDE! He's based on someone I knew RL who was BIG! I can get him a mesh body and adjust the sliders to keep him big, but all of the demo clothing I've tried force him to be a fekkin' skinny-mini. As if tall and thin were the only male body type. He's not a huge fashionista. He doesn't need wardrobes full of clothes. I just need some basics that fit his Viking-sized body, and finding decent classic system layer clothing is hard. I'm having to go back to the oooooold freebie stores, and, just, ew!

So what am I missing?

[Fionalein]

ahh there are basically 3 types of mesh clothing now: rigged mesh - fitted mesh and bento fitted mesh

it is a cascade - each one is a special case of the former one(s)

• rigged mesh is the one you still might know from the past, it follows your body movement
• fitmesh is mesh that also responds to your body sliders - mesh bodies are a special case of fitmesh clothing (yes technically a mesh body is just a piece of fitmesh clothing) and many of today's high fashion is designed to fit one of the mesh body rigs, not the classic bodies.
• bento fitmesh is fitmesh that is also rigged to the new bones introduced in project bento - as for clothing it is mostly used for golves that now can allow individual finger animations.

 

 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Fionalein

[Marianne Little]

Skinny is really the mainstream SL clothing industry.

What do you mean when you say: Viking-sized body?

Is it the bodytype to the left?

I think you can get the look of a more stocky, built like a brick wall, like a refrigerator male, with fitmesh clothing if you cover him up. If you look for the more fantasy viking outfit, with lots of bare skin and straps crisscrossing, it is hard to find some. But more realistic outfits with long sleeved tunics, pants, cloaks, should be able to fit when you alpha out the body. Like this, it is a good viking winter male outfit in my opinion. https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/PFCWinter-Coat/10607839

Think outside the box. All decent stores offer demos. If the clothes is made for a mesh body, but fit around the hands and neck on a classic body, you can use it. https://marketplace.secondlife.com/p/CN-Medieval-Viking-Outfit-Ragnar-Red-v2-Demo/14586916

The model looks slim, but try to use the appearance sliders when you wear the demo (free inworld) and increase the body thickness, body fat, torso muscle, belly, love handles, leg muscle and hip width. A wider hip balances wide shoulders if you want a stout torso.

If the clothes don't respond to the sliders as you hoped, well the good thing is that you didn't waste money on it.

An unrigged scarf or snood helps to cover eventual glitches between the mesh outfit and the neck. A big beard can do the same. ?

Even if the outfit don't include alpha layers, you can get free alpha layers from all the mesh demos. Delete the clothes, put the alpha layer with the clothes you need an alpha layer for. Let us say you use long pants, boots and a tunic with 3/4 sleeves. What you put in that outfit folder is an alpha layer for pants, add boots alpha, add a sweater alpha with 3/4 sleeves from assorted standard sizes mesh demos.

I would recommend your avatars to get Bento mesh hands, so they can use the fingers freely in natural movements.

In short... try lots of demos and look at the outfit, not what kind of body it's made for.

 

[Wulfie Reanimator]

19 hours ago, KathrynCiel said:

My issue with mesh clothing is that it forces you into a pre-defined size. 

This is not really true. While it's true that even the modern mesh bodies (from Maitreya, Belleza, Aesthetic, etc) have a specific overall shape, their size and proportions can vary very drastically with the same clothing (for that body) staying compatible at both extremes.

The only thing you need to pay attention to is the name of your mesh body and what the clothing is made for. (protip: type the body's name into Marketplace search)

19 hours ago, KathrynCiel said:

Now I come back and there are almost no "classic" system layer clothes to be had.

Fortunately LL is working on a new feature called Bakes On Mesh that will allow you to wear normal clothing layers so that they are automatically applied to the attachments (eg. body) you want, exactly as they are on the base body (because "bakes" are your base body textures). Once that feature becomes available, you'll be able to upgrade pretty easily.

 

But I agree; It's confusing, dealing with the scripted HUDs and appliers are frustrating, having a big enough selection of clothes is a major concern, and it costs up the wazoo to buy each body. But you don't HAVE to upgrade. Don't feel pressured to give up your avatars just because other people have.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Wulfie Reanimator

[Skell Dagger]

21 hours ago, KathrynCiel said:

I just need some basics that fit his Viking-sized body

If, by 'Viking-sized', you mean he's more of the 'big, muscled bodybuilder' shape, try the 'Aesthetic' Niramyth bodies. Make sure you spend a bit of time with the shape, though. By default everything is maxed at 100, and it gives rise to those ridiculous 'huge muscled body with teeny-tiny head/hands/feet' shapes that are so often ridiculed in SL. I've seen amazing things done with those bodies, by people who have taken the time to actually work with the sliders. You may have issues finding a variety of skins, especially if you're opting for a mesh head as well (most of the Catwa  Bento heads contain a Niramyth neck fit, but with skins for the combination of Niramyth and Catwa you're mainly looking at Birth and Nivaro for skins) but there are quite a few stores offering Niramyth clothing, and it's not all 'big gangsta/street dude' stuff. Adam Edelstein in particular offers some great suits and other clothing for Aesthetic.

Edited October 13, 2018 by Skell Dagger

[Marianne Little]

It does not sound like @KathrynCielreally want a mesh body... more like she is upset because she feels pressured to buy a body, because  there is only viking themed clothes in good quality made for new bodies.

As I said... if it is the half-naked viking she want outfits for, the fitted mesh for mesh bodies is best. But if she uses clothes that cover all but hands and head, why not try clothes she like, no matter what it says in the ad?

It is free demos after all.

I really don't know if she means BIG as in fat or BIG as in muscular. I assumed that one who has been in SL before could use the sliders to make the standard warrior shape. A shape with muscle+fat is not so easy.

But she will come back and clear it up for us?

[KathrynCiel]

To be clear, I use "viking-sized" as my friend was 6'6" with a large and thick skeletal frame. His hands and forearms were massive. Viking-themed clothing has nothing to do with it. He was a giant of a man.

On some of the first mesh body demos I tried for him, I could make the avatar's body large as I had wanted, but then mesh pants that were supposed to fit that body didn't fit, causing me to have to use alphas or the hud to hide those bits of him that were sticking out. The result was a large torso with disproportionately skinny legs and no butt to speak of.

Since making this post yesterday, I tried and ultimately bought the Adam body for him and found some clothing that allows me to maintain his size. 

Marianne, for my other avatars, no, I don't want a mesh body. I am happy with them. But when I buy mesh clothing for them, there is undeniably a pressure to resize the shape or use alphas, ultimately masking their shape, to fit into a predesigned size. That, I don't like. I understand why mesh clothing can't be a better fit, but I don't have to like it

Skell, thank you for your suggestions that were more directed to my needs.

To the others, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. Your attention is much appreciated

 

[Marianne Little]

@KathrynCielyou are not alone about having to use the HUD on the body to alpha out parts. That is very common... among male mesh bodies. Us females must do it a few times too, but the amount of mesh clothes for men is so much smaller than for the females. Male designers know that they sell their clothes, no matter if it takes a few clicks to alpha out the legs and pelvis.

The female market is much bigger, so mesh designers have to be more accurate and also use scripts that auto-alpha out the body so the customer don't have to do it. If they don't, then the ladies buy from another designer who has better rigging.

I have male alts with Signature Gianni, Belleza Jake and Slink male. I am just grateful that the most HUDs let me alpha out large parts. It saves time.

[Fionalein]

1 hour ago, Marianne Little said:

The female market is much bigger, so mesh designers have to be more accurate and also use scripts that auto-alpha out the body so the customer don't have to do it.

That uselesss piece of scripting is the first feature I usually roast in my outfits - if you work with saved outfits it is just crap and does the exact opposite of what it is supposed to do.

[Marianne Little]

3 hours ago, Fionalein said:

That uselesss piece of scripting is the first feature I usually roast in my outfits - if you work with saved outfits it is just crap and does the exact opposite of what it is supposed to do.

With Bake on Mesh, we put alpha layers in the outfits . I really wish we had it now, thank you LL, hurry up...please?

And you are probably right about the script , but I hardly ever make outfits so I wouldn't know.

[Marja Geesink]

Hello KathrynCiel ,

 

I also have a classic avatar and some stores still have clothes or stuff for us ,

some have mesh with an alpha layer for classic avatars wich i also use

and if they do not have an alpha layer , i will try the alphas i got 

just try all kind of demo`s of mesh and i look how my animation works on it

sometimes the mesh breaks with the movements , so i do not buy that  

 

greetings marja