Dogboat Taurog Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Opensource Obscure wrote: Dogboat Taurog wrote: the core of V2 is slower, firestorm is slower, thats why so many people use phoenix. im not hating V2, its just slower than what we have now and i have a fairly high spec PC. ? slower? Maybe for you. Not for me. then can you explain why snowglobe based TPV's are so popular? phoenix especially? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charolotte Caxton Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 The future of SL is about you and me. No one has purchased my System for me, I used money I earned to better experience something I enjoy rather than complaining about how everything is grey. When everything was grey to me, I asked why. When I was explained that my graphics were the reason, I upgraded. Instead of blaming LL, I took a look at myself first. LL shouldn't have to cater to those that are unwilling to better their SL experience from their end. Second life is a virtual world. This is 2011. Dont ask me to be against something that is going to further allow me to experience a better graphical, and by graphical I mean visual, experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogboat Taurog Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Charolotte Caxton wrote: The future of SL is about you and me. No one has purchased my System for me, I used money I earned to better experience something I enjoy rather than complaining about how everything is grey. When everything was grey to me, I asked why. When I was explained that my graphics were the reason, I upgraded. Instead of blaming LL, I took a look at myself first. LL shouldn't have to cater to those that are unwilling to better their SL experience from their end. Second life is a virtual world. This is 2011. Dont ask me to be against something that is going to further allow me to experience a better graphical, and by graphical I mean visual, experience. most of us have bills to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leliel Mirihi Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Dogboat Taurog wrote: not mentioning something isn't ignoring it. the core of V2 is slower, firestorm is slower, thats why so many people use phoenix. And here I thought it was because Firestorm was still in beta. Anyway do you have benchmarks to back up that claim? Or is this just your gut feeling? im not hating V2, its just slower than what we have now and i have a fairly high spec PC. Can you define fairly high spec PC? That is, after you get around to defining older PC. its not about hating its about the average user in SL, most have PCs that dont run graphic games particularly well. i get the feeling that you are a young kid that mummy and daddy has bought a top spec PC for. but this isnt about you or me, its about the future of SL. My manner of speech is no more childish than yours, yet I'm the spoiled brat with the rich parents while you're the serious grown up with bills to pay. That's a nice argument there. Really convinced me that v2 is slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charolotte Caxton Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 Dogboat Taurog wrote: Charolotte Caxton wrote: The future of SL is about you and me. No one has purchased my System for me, I used money I earned to better experience something I enjoy rather than complaining about how everything is grey. When everything was grey to me, I asked why. When I was explained that my graphics were the reason, I upgraded. Instead of blaming LL, I took a look at myself first. LL shouldn't have to cater to those that are unwilling to better their SL experience from their end. Second life is a virtual world. This is 2011. Dont ask me to be against something that is going to further allow me to experience a better graphical, and by graphical I mean visual, experience. most of us have bills to pay. That is a very good answer, for I too pay bills. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogboat Taurog Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 leliel Mirihi wrote: Dogboat Taurog wrote: not mentioning something isn't ignoring it. the core of V2 is slower, firestorm is slower, thats why so many people use phoenix. And here I thought it was because Firestorm was still in beta. Anyway do you have benchmarks to back up that claim? Or is this just your gut feeling? im not hating V2, its just slower than what we have now and i have a fairly high spec PC. Can you define fairly high spec PC? That is, after you get around to defining older PC. its not about hating its about the average user in SL, most have PCs that dont run graphic games particularly well. i get the feeling that you are a young kid that mummy and daddy has bought a top spec PC for. but this isnt about you or me, its about the future of SL. My manner of speech is no more childish than yours, yet I'm the spoiled brat with the rich parents while you're the serious grown up with bills to pay. That's a nice argument there. Really convinced me that v2 is slower. low spec - the pcs that dont run V2 as well as V1, but that should have been obvious... i've tried them all btw, and i'm sure most have. nice to see you accept your situation, its a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenni Darkwatch Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 They say a picture says more than a thousand words... well, whatever. First pic is on my home sim with shadows enabled (and the scene has at least four projectors). Second one has shadows disabled. AMD Athlon 64 4000+ ca. 2004 or thereaboutsnVidia GeForce 9800GT ca. 2008. That card costs about US$50 these days. With shadows: Without shadows: So, what do you consider old hardware? I doubt you'll ever answer that, considering that you seem to prefer polemics to facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guinevere Seibert Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I'm not going to live in a 2006 world cause some ppl don't wanna upgrade their damn PCs or get a job to buy one. The world isn't going to wait for you people, get used to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogboat Taurog Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 haha yeah do it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogboat Taurog Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 is this on a linux system? you kids are hilarious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitomi Tiponi Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Viewer 2 runs fine on a single core Intel PC with an 8800GT (on Windows XP) as well. Viewer 2 does fall behind Viewer 1 on Intel integrated graphics though, and sadly many computers (including many sold as all-purpose) still rely on them. I do know that LL has bought a number of low-spec machines to try to address these problems and some features such as 'opaque water' have helped a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacy Nightfire Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Firstly Ortiga don't knock lag. Lag serves a very important function in Second Life. It gives total strangers something to talk about, much like the weather in real life. And as we all know, there are some folks who live to complain - lag is a gift to these people. Second Life is a somewhat expensive hobby and its a hobby that is based on a virtual visual 3D experience. Just like photography, skiing, whatever...you upgrade as technology progresses or you accept the limitations of what you can afford. If you can't accept these limitations you always have the option to get a different hobby or a 2nd job. Or you can give up your cable TV subscription, eat at home, give up your daily caffe latte and get a "stupid phone" - what ever it takes to divert funds into a better computer. If you can't accomplish that you have bigger problems and should not be focusing your time and attention on SL. I've met very few people in SL who are not able to keep pace. Most people (like myself) may start out with a computer that doesn't handle graphics very well, but as they decide SL floats their boat, they make upgrading their system a priority or they leave and find something else to do. Are we all spoiled children? I think not. And if you are posting to the Mesh forum because you are a "content creator" for profit, then you have no excuses not to invest in the best equiptment for the job. It's not in LL's best interest to "dumb down" their product so everyone who has a cr#ppy computer or a computer not built for high-end graphics can join in. They would lose just as many customers, maybe more, with that strategy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacy Nightfire Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 That makes absolutely no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Tairov Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Meshes are much easier to render. I and my comrades are excited about all the hardcore optimization we're going to be able to do. Lower primcount, lower render overhead, proper physics shapes, handpicked LoDs! It's actually harder to screw up rendering overhead with meshes than with sculpts, because sloppy mesh work costs more prims! This means more and better content, and we can't wait to show you all the cool stuff we're gonna make. Second Life must progress and evolve, or it will wither and die. Users are arriving and wondering why the graphics are so low compared to other, more modern games. They're wondering why our stuff isn't as cool. Well, we're working hard on that, coming up with new and innovative ways to get more for less. Megaprim sculpts with separate megaprim bounding skeletons, LSL preprocessor libraries, coalescing of scripts to reduce memory overhead, et cetera. Fewer prims, lower script time, more cool stuff. Well, mesh allows us to take that to the next level. We can do even better once we're out of handcuffs. From what I've seen of him, Dogboat seems to be either a troll or a fool. Maybe both. His position is ungrounded. Blue Mars had some viability going for it *because* LL was averse to mesh. SL must implement mesh, or it *will* fade away. LL knows this, Dogboat, which is why your posts here will do nothing to change the course necessary for SL's long-term survival. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogboat Taurog Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Agent Tairov wrote: Meshes are much easier to render. I and my comrades are excited about all the hardcore optimization we're going to be able to do. Lower primcount, lower render overhead, proper physics shapes, handpicked LoDs! It's actually harder to screw up rendering overhead with meshes than with sculpts, because sloppy mesh work costs more prims! This means more and better content, and we can't wait to show you all the cool stuff we're gonna make. Second Life must progress and evolve, or it will wither and die. Users are arriving and wondering why the graphics are so low compared to other, more modern games. They're wondering why our stuff isn't as cool. Well, we're working hard on that, coming up with new and innovative ways to get more for less. Megaprim sculpts with separate megaprim bounding skeletons, LSL preprocessor libraries, coalescing of scripts to reduce memory overhead, et cetera. Fewer prims, lower script time, more cool stuff. Well, mesh allows us to take that to the next level. We can do even better once we're out of handcuffs. From what I've seen of him, Dogboat seems to be either a troll or a fool. Maybe both. His position is ungrounded. Blue Mars had some viability going for it *because* LL was averse to mesh. SL must implement mesh, or it *will* fade away. LL knows this, Dogboat, which is why your posts here will do nothing to change the course necessary for SL's long-term survival. handcuffs? hardcore optimisation?? jeepers. :smileyvery-happy: Blue mars had some viability going for it??? did you see the loading times? Bwahahaha :smileywink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Tairov Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Dogboat Taurog wrote: I don't have an actual argument because I don't know what I'm talking about, so I'll just post an innuendo instead. There, FTFY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Tairov Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 I'm gonna cross-post this old post I made on the blog. I'm a part of the crowd calling for mesh, and you know why I do? It's not "dollar signs" that are "blinging in my eyes". It's because I, and my colleagues, are being held back from creating a wide variety of amazing, fantastic content that will give people a reason to come see and play in SL. Prims are too expensive. Prims have always been too expensive. Prims will probably always be too expensive to build anything of competitive geometric complexity. Prims are pretty useful, though. We love sketching out things in a shared environment with them, and they're relatively versatile. But prims are not enough, and they're overpriced. Have a look at my product lineup. (In-world) My flagship product is a sculpted battlecarrier starship. It's 150 meters long, but it's only around 1,500 prims. Despite the low primcount, it still looks amazing. You know how I did that? Megaprims and sculpts. Megasculpts, in fact. Megaprims and sculpts are the ONLY reason it was economically viable. It blows the pants off of people I show IRL. I tell them "this is what Second Life is capable of," and they now have a reason to take the platform seriously. When I show them the old 2006-2007 stuff, they think it's a shoddy platform with shoddy graphics that isn't capable of anything interesting. But sculpts are not enough: * Sculpts use far too many vertices for most shapes that are represented by them, making them render-inefficient. * Sculpts have a 1-1 correllation between faces and texture detail. This means a number of things, including that in order to get sufficient detail, textures must be larger than they would otherwise be; that textures get unreasonably distorted; and that textures cannot effectively be repeating on most sculpts (again, larger textures, longer loading times.) * Sculpts LoD barely controllably. This leads to "spiderweb" effects and other LoD visual failures that you've no doubt seen. * Sculpts require invisible prim collision skeletons for a wide variety of uses, such as my aforementioned battlecarrier. Sculpts are harder to render. Sculpts take longer to load. Sculpts are wasteful for a great many uses, but they are the ONLY way we have to represent complex geometry right now without blowing the prim budget and making the product economically non-viable. Sculpts enable us to make some seriously cool stuff, but we can do better and we know it. How about newbies competing in the scripts market? Well, let me tell you, I and my team are doing things that push the boundaries of what's possible in the platform, and our customers LOVE IT. I have a *real pathfinding* algorithm automatically moving the fighter docking pads on my starship. We have external libraries. We have distributed version control systems. New to programming? You probably won't figure that out. Are we to smash down and limit the complexity allowed in LSL so that new players who have never programmed before can compete with trained software developers with established codebases? I don't think so. I think that's the sort of crazy idea that would be like shooting the platform in the foot with a shotgun. I was a newbie to programming, once. I was when I came here. This virtual world is what changed the trajectory of my very life! I didn't want to be constrained by nasty limits and did everything I could to break through them (without causing lag, of course). I didn't want to be held back so that those who couldn't understand, or didn't have the time to learn, how to think algorithmically, could succeed. I went out and I scripted things that hadn't been done before in Second Life, or hadn't been done well before in Second Life. It took a long time before I broke even, but I could not suppress the raw urge to create. Look at the current markets in Second Life. Most of them are already saturated. To compete in those markets, you already need to know how to sculpt, or need someone on your team that can sculpt. You need the ability to create custom textures. Newbies, for the most part, already can't compete in most major Second Life markets. They have to create or join new or emerging markets. I joined an emerging market. That's what it takes if you want to make decent cash via content creation on SL. If you're a serious business threat in a market that contains builds, you have already learned, or are in the process of learning, to sculpt. If you haven't yet and you're still managing to be a decent competitor, then you probably have the time to learn how to sculpt. (There are a few reasons you might still not be able to. One of my co-workers has a Mac and Blender 2.4x just wasn't ported well for Mac. But Blender 2.54 fixes that nicely!) However, if you can already compete by sculpting, you can already do mesh. Why? I'm going to let you in on a secret. Meshing is *easier*, substantially, than sculpting. Why? Imagine you are instructed to construct a model of the Eiffel Tower. You are given two options: balloon animal-style balloons, or clay. Sculpting is like working with balloons. Each sculpt is of limited length, and you must pinch it to create the illusion of two separate pieces with a single piece of material. It's harder to texture it once you've got your model. Skilled SL sculptors would be like using rubber bands to bind the balloons and exactly the right size of balloon for each piece. Meshing is more like working with clay. You add, you subtract. You can merge things together. It is much easier to texture, just as it would be easier to paint on clay than on balloons! So, suppose that you have someone who has been trained with neither clay nor balloons. Which one would be easier? I would most definitely say that clay is easier for a newbie because it's more intuitive. You add, you subtract. So, which of these will help newbies more easily compete in a saturated market? Which of these already has faaar, far more tutorials than the other? Which of these has fewer arbitrary rules? Which of these is more intuitive to create with, and thus easier to learn? Mesh, mesh, mesh, mesh. Coming from sculpting, mesh is very empowering. Have you even tried Blender 2.54? It's far, far easier than Blender 2.4x. And now, with the Machinimatrix.org video tutorials that have been out for many months, almost anyone that is willing to can learn to use Blender. Now, let's talk a bit about why Blue Mars hasn't been as successful: * Heavy engine. This is the single biggest weakness of the entire Blue Mars platform. I have a decent PC, and it was just chugging. I couldn't even bring the other members of my team there because their hardware is pretty old. This severely limits the number of possible players, which leads it to get utterly wallopped by the next one: * Network Effect. SL has significantly more content and users already here, with emotional or financial commitments. * No in-world build tools. Thus, no easy ability for users to tweak creations and make them more their own. Let me tell you, I am a big believer in users being able to tweak their creations. I sell all products mod-on-prims. * Awkward UI. Maybe this changed, but I felt constrained in the Blue Mars world by the UI. * Low agent update rate makes physics-based play either expensive (host own server) or practically impossible. * Windows only. Two of my team are on Macs. Deal breaker. * LL released mesh beta. Previously, one of the key competitive advantages of Blue Mars over SL was that Blue Mars actually believed in industry-standard dev tools and that SL seemed like it never, ever would. My team and I forsaw a long, slow, overpriced death as the platform lost momentum due to dramatic dev feature stagnation. That, and the turbulence from the CEO thing, were why we were considering Blue Mars in the first place! Well, LL wised up and changed the equation. We see that they're now committed to actually improving and advancing the dev abilities on the platform. Second Life as a whole *does* compete with well crafted games, because those compete for SL users' time. So, graphics matter. Scripted abilities matter. Limits *matter*. As a result, development tools matter. LL cannot afford to implement powerful mesh direct manipulation tools in the client. But they can do something that allows them to take advantage of *years* of software development along that angle by others. They can support mesh import. They can put Second Life on a competitive graphics footing with more modern environments. It doesn't have to support normal maps, specular maps, et cetera. But it *does* have to show that SL is a serious platform that supports serious tools, not just limited proprietary stuff. The Mesh beta shows that. It shows me that the platform is /not/ stagnant, that my chains /will/ be unbound, and that overpriced, render-wasteful stuff that kills client FPS while users and developers lose interest and leave is not the fate we are all doomed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogboat Taurog Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Agent Tairov wrote: I'm gonna cross-post this old post I made on the blog. Blah Blah Blah FIFY. -------------------------------------------------------- you dont want to get the reality do you. its gonna be a lonely world when theres no one buying anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaia Clary Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Dogboat Taurog wrote: you dont want to get the reality do you. its gonna be a lonely world when theres no one buying anything. I do not exactly understand, what your opinion is ;-( On one side you say that you want that SL gets more efficient, because otherwise you fear that Second Life will quickly get to its end of life. And yes, i can understand that and also second that. Now you also say, that inefficient buildings like hair built on 200+ distorted torus-shapes is as inefficient as anything can be. And avatars wearing 400 active scripts is nothing anybody realy wants. Right! But then on the other hand you seem to say that introduction of mesh makes the situation worse. IMHO Agent Tairov has summarized a whole lot of reasons why meshes are in fact more efficient as sculpties or even more efficient as regular prims. And there is certainly no reason to assume that mesh based builds will be charged higher than regular prim based builds. We have seen lots of lots of examples where comparable builds can be done far CHEAPER with meshes regarding L$. BTW one of the major reasons why LL has decided to go with meshes was in fact "efficiency"... But you say, this is not true and you say meshes will bring SL to death. So what are the arguments on which you base your assumptions that mesh is inefficient and will kill this platform ? Regarding the efficiency and quality of Viewer-2 compared to viewer-1 based developments i am also a bit confused. For example we have been trying a lot of viewer-1 derivates and we have finally given up on that technology because: 1.) For us viewer-2 brought a much better stability for film making (we use Kirsten's viewer) 2.) Complex rendering like shadows and ambient occlusion processing looks much better on Viewer-2. We never could get anything comparable out of viewer-1 regarding visual quality. I know many people dislike viewer-2 and i respect their arguments, especially when it comes to building! But i also learned to love the v2 features, especially those regarding visual experience. And isn't that also something that makes SL better at the end ? Maybe you have pointed out your arguments before and sorry if i missed your explanations. But i am realy curious to get to know what makes you so annoyed about mesh and v2... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogboat Taurog Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Gaia Clary wrote: Dogboat Taurog wrote: you dont want to get the reality do you. its gonna be a lonely world when theres no one buying anything. I do not exactly understand, what your opinion is ;-( On one side you say that you want that SL gets more efficient, because otherwise you fear that Second Life will quickly get to its end of life. And yes, i can understand that and also second that. Now you also say, that inefficient buildings like hair built on 200+ distorted torus-shapes is as inefficient as anything can be. And avatars wearing 400 active scripts is nothing anybody realy wants. Right! But then on the other hand you seem to say that introduction of mesh makes the situation worse. IMHO Agent Tairov has summarized a whole lot of reasons why meshes are in fact more efficient as sculpties or even more efficient as regular prims. And there is certainly no reason to assume that mesh based builds will be charged higher than regular prim based builds. We have seen lots of lots of examples where comparable builds can be done far CHEAPER with meshes regarding L$. BTW one of the major reasons why LL has decided to go with meshes was in fact "efficiency"... But you say, this is not true and you say meshes will bring SL to death. So what are the arguments on which you base your assumptions that mesh is inefficient and will kill this platform ? Regarding the efficiency and quality of Viewer-2 compared to viewer-1 based developments i am also a bit confused. For example we have been trying a lot of viewer-1 derivates and we have finally given up on that technology because: 1.) For us viewer-2 brought a much better stability for film making (we use Kirsten's viewer) 2.) Complex rendering like shadows and ambient occlusion processing looks much better on Viewer-2. We never could get anything comparable out of viewer-1 regarding visual quality. I know many people dislike viewer-2 and i respect their arguments, especially when it comes to building! But i also learned to love the v2 features, especially those regarding visual experience. And isn't that also something that makes SL better at the end ? Maybe you have pointed out your arguments before and sorry if i missed your explanations. But i am realy curious to get to know what makes you so annoyed about mesh and v2... V2 is not popular. people like snowglobe based TPV's, V2 is slow on older PCS. "Now you also say, that inefficient buildings like hair built on 200+ distorted torus-shapes is as inefficient as anything can be." these are your words not mine, i said nothing about Torus shapes. experienced people like V1 as they may have older PCS that dont run V2 as well as you want them to. believe me i represent the middle ground. i have nothing against Mesh. its V2 that is the problem. and i have already said all this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielRavenNest Noe Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Dogboat Taurog wrote: Blue mars had some viability going for it??? did you see the loading times? Bwahahaha :smileywink: You can laugh all you want. I will laugh all the way to the bank. I earned US$144 last month in Blue Mars. Looks viable from my standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaia Clary Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 "Now you also say, that inefficient buildings like hair built on 200+ distorted torus-shapes is as inefficient as anything can be." these are your words not mine, i said nothing about Torus shapes. Sorry for the wrong citation. You where actually writing about hairs with 200 resize scripts. But just to say it again. I am with you here, not against you. i have nothing against Mesh. its V2 that is the problem. and i have already said all this.. Then i do not exactly understand why Agents summary about where meshes are better than sculpties receives this answer from you: "you dont want to get the reality do you. its gonna be a lonely world when theres no one buying anything." As Agent doesn't talk about v2 in that text at all but only about meshes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Tairov Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Gaia Clary wrote: Then i do not exactly understand why Agents summary about where meshes are better than sculpties receives this answer from you: "you dont want to get the reality do you. its gonna be a lonely world when theres no one buying anything." As Agent doesn't talk about v2 in that text at all but only about meshes... Because Dogboat isn't interested in actually making a convincing or reasonable argument. I'm gonna be honest. I haven't noticed any performance hit with V2 compared to Phoenix, and my rig's not exactly top-of-the-line gaming material. Plus, Phoenix team's fixing up a real nice V2-based TPV, from what I hear, and their current client's pretty great so I'm expecting much of this next one. I don't see a reason to worry about a mass exodus. Besides, the alternative is a slow death for the platform by attrition, as I've pointed out rather clearly. My old laptop that I used to run SL with three years ago can't run SL acceptably these days, but that didn't cause me to leave the platform. It's up to Dogboat to provide an actually decent argument that A.), not putting mesh in the platform will somehow not lead to it slowly fading away or getting eclipsed by a rival, and that B.), viewer 2 is literally so much worse for older computers, that even with solid TPV alternatives, the switchover will result in mass exodus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogboat Taurog Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Agent Tairov wrote: Gaia Clary wrote: Then i do not exactly understand why Agents summary about where meshes are better than sculpties receives this answer from you: "you dont want to get the reality do you. its gonna be a lonely world when theres no one buying anything." As Agent doesn't talk about v2 in that text at all but only about meshes... Because Dogboat isn't interested in actually making a convincing or reasonable argument. I'm gonna be honest. I haven't noticed any performance hit with V2 compared to Phoenix, and my rig's not exactly top-of-the-line gaming material. Plus, Phoenix team's fixing up a real nice V2-based TPV, from what I hear, and their current client's pretty great so I'm expecting much of this next one. I don't see a reason to worry about a mass exodus. Besides, the alternative is a slow death for the platform by attrition, as I've pointed out rather clearly. My old laptop that I used to run SL with three years ago can't run SL acceptably these days, but that didn't cause me to leave the platform. It's up to Dogboat to provide an actually decent argument that A.), not putting mesh in the platform will somehow not lead to it slowly fading away or getting eclipsed by a rival, and that B.), viewer 2 is literally so much worse for older computers, that even with solid TPV alternatives, the switchover will result in mass exodus. i'm gonna be honest, i don't believe you. and quite likely nor do most of SL. you want someone to argue with, thats all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Tairov Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 Dogboat Taurog wrote: i'm gonna be honest, i don't believe you. and quite likely nor do most of SL. you want someone to argue with, thats all. Actually, I don't. On top of that, you're either a troll or deliberately inflammatory, and apparently you don't care for actually backing up your arguments. I don't have time for someone like that. Bye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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