Wow A Terrible Search/Places Bug LL Should Fix ASAP

[Jagix Linden]

Looks to be all clear. Thanks for reporting!

[Prokofy Neva]

1 hour ago, Lina Pussycat said:

New people looking that don't pay attention to the blogs etc still make up a good chunk of sales for any store. Many larger stores are pulling back from doing events too as it gets to be too tiring to do releases for events at all. Blueberry used to toss out releases for events, but has largely stopped outside of a once in awhile thing. The whole thing plays into sales and the like. You take all of it and put it together to be successful. The tools are there you use them and while search may not be as important to some stores (once they are established) it can be the diff between finding a new place or not and establishing a presence to begin with. Search matters more than you may think it does. It's not a matter of what you think prok and what you think has never been the actual reality of the situation in SL and never will be. There isn't some conspiracy, there isn't some grandiose people that LL keep their ear to etc. There is no fetid inner core, there is none of this nonsensical conspiracy you've been peddling for well over a decade now. 

It isn't controlled by the elites. You seem to forget that I have again been accused of being an elite or involved in some of your conspiracy bull *****. If it is so controlled by the elites where are all those people you've accused in the past at and why isn't SL steered in their direction? They are no longer here or relevant in any way shape or form because LL has always done what LL have wanted and it has nothing to do with being steered by some mysterious elite group of people. You can guarantee it all you want that SL is run by a few elites, but it is the ramblings of someone that has long since lost touch with reality on the subject and has lost touch for about 10+ years now. If people don't agree with you they are part of something or uneducated in your eyes. All those so called elites of yours in the past died off in SL because LL steered SL in a way that was different from what those elites were effectively good at and  said people didn't want to keep up when sculpted prims came out, then again with mesh, then again with fitted mesh, then again with bento. SL has always been steered by LL in a way to attempt to bring in more and more content creators based on advancing skill sets not some super elites that control *****. 

I appreciate that you have a lot of convictions about things and you spend a lot of time flying around to things and feel you have valid insights.

But you aren't seeing real facts across the breadth of the market and actually interviewing store owners as much as I do.

Your idea that "many larger stores are pulling back from events" is not based in fact. They are not. They are in EVER MORE events and complain about total creator fatigue as they are called upon to make yet another new gatcha set. This is proved not by listening to me but looking at Seraphim and seeing all the events, who is in them, and seeing that there are now even MORE events, with the SAME merchants

It isn't what I "think," it's what I discover from polls, research, interviews, sales records, customer responses, etc. There are a lot of data inpoints. You aren't referencing them. I have them and do. I've also just written above and have written on my blog many times that the FIC is different now. I even made awards for old and new and second generation and such in past years. It has literally turned over completely with almost no overlap. But you aren't interested in reading what facts I've already stated, you're intersted in reiterating some prejudice you have about me being mired in the past so it's not interesting to keep disussing it.

You seem incapable of grasping that the FIC are the creators -- and that Linden privileges creators. If they change from scupty to mesh to bento over time, so what? The common denominator is that creators, not landlords, not non-profits, not story-tellers, not whatever, but creators are the elite of SL, the end.

 

[Prokofy Neva]

1 hour ago, Lina Pussycat said:

Or maybe the few that responded in the group don't care. Many people use caspervend that doesn't mean they are good stores and why they trying to get a support group for a specific company to care? I use caspertech stuff and vendors as do most other people that have products of some sorts (even land) in SL... Casper is to busy to be running out and taking care of issues that have been reported and the individual vendors aren't going to want to run around trying to solve it themselves. They expect LL to fix it. Again almost no high end vendors are using classifieds anymore. Maybe *****ty shops that have subpar products that they hope to peddle off or people reselling products that they bought full righted and changed some textures on.  Go look at the big stores that are actually big and have a lot of foot traffic and sales in any marketplace and you'll find the places that use classifieds aren't really doing as well as you seemingly think they are.

Many stores do use classifieds on top of searches as it is a smart move on their part, but they are reliant on a whole and many are not reliant on the classifieds at all. Xplicit I know for a fact runs a classified, but doesn't get a lot of her traffic through that classified and instead talks to people she knows regularly, gets out there and mingles, and uses the search tools provided (i'm good friends with her and regularly test products for her). You seem to think that you are going to get people to get up and get on LL about this or that when most people are just like "Meh It'll get itself sorted out" or aren't technically inclined enough on the reporting tools in SL to really pester LL about it. It's not like back in the day when we could just talk to a linden in world about something and literally SHOW them a problem. 

This is a good example of how the literalist 1/0 tech mind keeps working -- your answer.

I haven't said that these users in Casper don't matter, that they aren't good stores, or that they don't use search/places. I shop from them. They use search, some of them.

That is not the point.

The point is they DO NOT NEED search/places to SURVIVE like many small business owners. They make revenue IN OTHER WAYS.

 

[Chic Aeon]

This is working on my test now in both FS legacy (which I prefer) and web search. On web search the EXACT same page shows in the Linden viewer as in the regular viewer. So maybe it is fixed now for both.  I used the search term "tunnel" for my test. ChiC buildings of course came up all by itself :D.

 

 

 

 

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I appreciate that you have a lot of convictions about things and you spend a lot of time flying around to things and feel you have valid insights.

But you aren't seeing real facts....

 

 

Theresa Tennyson rolls around on the floor.

CAN'T... STOP... LAUGHING...

[Prokofy Neva]

On 1/18/2018 at 2:21 PM, Jagix Linden said:

The fix has been deployed, but reindexing everything is going to take a while. You should see some of the missing items already reappearing in search, but it might take some time. Specifically, I'm not yet seeing Wetwang, Ravenglass, OPQ Estates, or TFF Main Store in the index yet, though I had Governance8 Linden go check to confirm that all four places had the box checked.

 

FYI, a statement that I can't reproduce it doesn't necessarily mean there is no problem. It may mean we need more information to replicate the issue. This is the reason I requested some specific SLURLs, which enabled us to locate some of the affected parcels.

Jagix, did this issue, which lasted overnight, from early evening til early morning the next day -- I would estimate at least 8 hours until it began to resolve for some (not all) people --  get reported as a grid problem, an "unscheduled maintenance" problem, a something?

No, it didn't. It went down the memory hole.

If it were validated as a problem even without "reproduction" which I totally get is the geek gold standard, it would be on the grid status. It wasn't.

If it were validated as a problem, you know, like Strawberry Singh's YouTube thing, there'd be an apology -- and while that's too much to expect given the utter indifference LL has to Mainland and its hard-scrabble businesses, there'd be one of those techie kind of posts that would say:

"Due to a Table A data base suboptimal reticulations of splines in correlation with Table B, some users may have experienced a temporary non-substantiation in search. A fix has been pushed." You know, one of those non-apologies-but-admissions. We didn't get even that.

[Phil Deakins]

@Prokofy Neva The issue was spotted and fixed in super-quick time, but that's not good enough for you. You want an apology as well. And, if you get one, then what? You'll want reimbursing for the 8 hours that your places weren't in search? That'd be what? 1/21 of L$30 per place - a bit over L$1 per place. You already brought the idea of reimbursing up. You ought to be delighted that it was fixed so quickly. You ought to applauding, instead of complaining. You haven't even said thank you, or 'well done' for the speed in which the problem was fixed.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Prokofy Neva]

I've already answered this complaint, and it's silly.

o The Lindens did not validate this as an issue on their Grid Report -- January 18 says "No Issues Reported" which is a lie, but they mean "reported by them when they validate it as important," and that is wrong.

o It's not about the fraction of the week's $30 which is marginal for many, and even me, with a hundred ads. It's about a problem that would have persisted with days if I didn't complain loudly and publicly, and if others didn't more quietly immediately start complaining to them privately. 

o It's indicative of a shabby treatment of Mainland and Mainland businesses in general which should stop, as this core of active users help generate stability for accounts and bring in new accounts and provide them with tier, even if a fraction of private island tier. They make SL affordable for people who cannot afford to buy their expensive islands, or rent more expensive rentals on those islands.

o Nobody complained when Strawberry Singh immediately howled about her mistreatment over the "inSL" copyright issue; she was feted and lauded and given a New Worlds Note puff piece and the Lindens published an elaborate apology. They fixed her problem in record, time, too, but so what? It was wrong, they needed to validate the issue and apologize, and they did. This issue is NO DIFFERENT. It's merely that you don't like me, because I've called out your bad behavior on the forums.

o I've pointed out that reimbursing isn't practical; that a holiday from group ad fees and individual ad fees for one week would be a nice gesture and cost them nothing (this is a sink, not a source of income!!!). But that isn't as important as a validation and an apology.

One problem here is that the forums contain almost no inworld business people, really, except for a smattering of tier 2 or tier 3 businesses on a few sections and of course Merchants. No big name in SL comes here. Ever. In their lives. Some egos may be dented by this stark statement and complain that they're famous and they're here, but we users watching at home all know that this is fiction. Some might brag that they are the alt of some big deal in the creation world, but that doesn't count, because they're an alt, and there aren't that many of them. Most actual big deals in SL don't have time for the forums, or in a few cases they go to SLuniverse which at least for them, is free of obstruction and harassment for posting.

And there are reasons for the big names not coming here, as you can find from reading SLuniverse, if you don't like my blog:

o People who make a living from SL fear that if they say something "wrong" on the forums, they could get banned for life from SL -- permabanned. Who wants to lose their land because they told off some myrmidon on the forums??

This is threatened routinely. Even if they only get a one-day or three-day ban, the Lindens are vicious here -- when they ban for free speech, they also ban you from entering the world at all. So your business languishes for 3 days while you are locked out from the world, as you can read on SLuniverse for some people. BTW that isn't me, as I'm banned from Sluniverse and happy to be so. I recall 12 years ago, the Lindens banned me once for some "sin" on the forums that also led to an inworld ban of 3 days. The irony of this is that they did this although I was scheduled at that time to host a talk by a Linden about architectures. I sent my alt to host it instead, and it was quite interesting.

The Lindens are like Putin, who jails a theater director who staged a ballet about Nureyev, which earned the ire of the Russian Orthodox Church and conservatives because it referenced the fact that Nureyev was gay. Yet the show is allowed to appear at the Bolshoi Theater, and at the opening night, Putin's chief lieutenants were all clapping in the audience and the state media gave it rave reviews, censoring the gay part and mainly not mentioning that the director was in jail in what is widely believed to be a fabricated case.

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Prokofy Neva

[Theresa Tennyson]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

One problem here is that the forums contain almost no inworld business people, really, except for a smattering of tier 2 or tier 3 businesses on a few sections and of course Merchants. No big name in SL comes here. Ever. In their lives. Some egos may be dented by this stark statement and complain that they're famous and they're here, but we users watching at home all know that this is fiction. Some might brag that they are the alt of some big deal in the creation world, but that doesn't count, because they're an alt, and there aren't that many of them. Most actual big deals in SL don't have time for the forums, or in a few cases they go to SLuniverse which at least for them, is free of obstruction and harassment for posting.

Coming from anyone else, I'd think of this as a moment of self-awareness...

[Prokofy Neva]

The purpose of people like Theresa Tennyson with remarks like this is to egg someone on and force the Lindens to close a thread so that they can close off discussion they don't like, that criticizes their bubble life, their misconceptions, their partial understandings etc. which come from not being in world with any significant experience.

To claim that this is a moment of "self-awareness" because I somehow "admit" here that I'm not a big name, that I'm not an alt of a big deal, that I don't count for much is just silly. I don't pretend to be a big name, big business, or big anything. It's irrelevant.

I've stated a true fact, that everyone knows, which is that the big names of SL DO NOT POST HERE as they did in the early years when the biggest actors inworld were also the biggest in the forums because THEY HAD A STAKE IN THE WORLD.

Most of the squawkers here don't.

[Phil Deakins]

Alright, so you don't want thank them, or say 'well done', for fixing the problem in super-quick time. That's expected, of course. All you ever do here is complain. Even when you bring a problem up, and it gets fixed super-quick, you complain. You don't even think it deserves a thank you. You're quite unbelievable.

 

57 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

I've stated a true fact, that everyone knows, which is that the big names of SL DO NOT POST HERE as they did in the early years when the biggest actors inworld were also the biggest in the forums because THEY HAD A STAKE IN THE WORLD.

That may well be true, and it includes you, of course (i.e. it excludes you from those who are 'big names'). The only thing big about you is your unrivalled capactity to complain. But I don't think that many of the big names you're thinking of are big names at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's big businesses that are relatively well-known, rather than the people behind them. For instance, back when I was at the forefront of low prim furniture, it was my store's name that was relatively well-known, but not me. I've only ever been well-known amongst the relatively few SL users who use this forum.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Phil Deakins]

3 hours ago, Prokofy Neva said:

It's merely that you don't like me, because I've called out your bad behavior on the forums.

What bad behaviour have you called me out on? I don't remember anything. I do remember you posting untruths about me in your blog, if that's what you mean. They were untruths, not lies, because you didn't understand part of SL at the time. I gave you a good hiding, publically, in your blog on that occasion

Edited January 21, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Prokofy Neva]

No, I understand SL just fine, Phil! You were obsessed about search for years and put traffic bots on your land, and called them "models" LOL. There's not much you need to know

about SL to get that! Say, how's business these days?

[Prokofy Neva]

31 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Alright, so you don't want thank them, or say 'well done', for fixing the problem in super-quick time. That's expected, of course. All you ever do here is complain. Even when you bring a problem up, and it gets fixed super-quick, you complain. You don't even think it deserves a thank you. You're quite unbelievable.

 

That may well be true, and it includes you, of course (i.e. it excludes you from those who are 'big names'). The only thing big about you is your unrivalled capactity to complain. But I don't think that many of the big names you're thinking of are big names at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's big businesses that are relatively well-known, rather than the people behind them. For instance, back when I was at the forefront of low prim furniture, it was my store's name that was relatively well-known, but not me. I've only ever been well-known amongst the relatively few SL users who use this forum.

It's uncanny how all of you forum regs can't see how you yourselves spend your lives here complaining, mainly about what other people post : )

I'm quite happy in SL much of the time, I don't have need for Linden intervention, but when they make us dependent on them in nasty ways with bad bugs, I speak out, and always will, and I speak out on other bad behavior that affects many people beyond us. That's just being a good citizen, you know, the way you are in RL when you all complain about Trump. But for some reason, that's never allowed here LOL.

No, I don't think people who break something, don't tell you it's broken, tell you they can't reproduce it while they are claiming to fix it, who send three Lindens to your store to check to see if you are really in search because they can't believe your self report on this, who tell others to post links to land in search because they think mine must not be, and I'm stupid, and that's why I'm complaining, um, no, they don't get a thank you.

Your comments about the store's name being the big name, and not the person behind it are so laughable, I just don't know where to begin. Truly I don't. Your self-report about not being well known as a forums reg is also laughable. In any event, these conversations are dull, and I'm making up a list of forums regs whom I will simply never interact with because their only point is to savage and derail.

 

[Phil Deakins]

1 hour ago, Prokofy Neva said:

No, I understand SL just fine, Phil! You were obsessed about search for years and put traffic bots on your land, and called them "models" LOL. There's not much you need to know

about SL to get that! Say, how's business these days?

Of course I used traffic bots - lots of them, up to ~37 at a time - and a few were models in the store. All of that was common knowledge. They were perfectly legal at the time. But that's not what you posted about in your blog, is it You posted a pic of you sitting on one of my demo beds, knowing that, according to the green dot in the mini-map, an avatar was supposed to be there, but it wasn't. So you posted that I was up to some sort of cheating/skullduggery or other. What you didn't know until I pointed it out is that the resolution in the mini-map is 16 meters, so the avatar would be somewhere nearby but not necessarily in the much smaller confined space where you took the pic. If you did know that the resolution is 16 meters, then you were lying in your blog, just for the sake of being nasty. I've always assumed that you didn't know until I told you. I told you in your blog that all you'd have needed to do was look on the other side of the wall, and there it was. I proved that you were wrong. It took a while, but you never owned up to your mistake. You just faded out of it, as you normally do when you're on the wrong end of a discussion.

Post the url to that blog entry and let's all have a look at the discussion between us You won't do that though. You never have each time I've asked you to post it.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Phil Deakins]

58 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

No, I don't think people who break something, don't tell you it's broken, tell you they can't reproduce it while they are claiming to fix it, who send three Lindens to your store to check to see if you are really in search because they can't believe your self report on this, who tell others to post links to land in search because they think mine must not be, and I'm stupid, and that's why I'm complaining, um, no, they don't get a thank you.

I'm not a fan of LL (the company). In fact, I'm the opposite, as my posts in the forum have said many times. But in RL we pay for technical systems that sometimes go down or go wrong, and we don't get refunds or credits unless they have been down/wrong for more than a certain amount of time. I don't see that the SL system is, or should be, any different.

The steps taken by LL after the problem was reported to them appear to be perfect to me. No system operator takes somebody's word for such things. First they check them by trying to see the problems, and by trying to reproduce them. That's what happened in this case. You described it in the part of your post that I've quoted. In other words, they did exactly the right things, and it resulted in a super-quick fix. You have nothing to complain about, and everything to say 'thank you' for.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Phil Deakins

[Prokofy Neva]

49 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

I'm not a fan of LL (the company). In fact, I'm the opposite, as my posts in the forum have said many times. But in RL we pay for technical systems that sometimes go down or go wrong, and we don't get refunds or credits unless they have been down/wrong for more than a certain amount of time. I don't see that the SL system is, or should be, any different.

The steps taken by LL after the problem was reported to them appear to be perfect to me. No system operator takes somebody's word for such things. First they check them by trying to see the problems, and by trying to reproduce them. That's what happened in this case. You described it in the part of your post that I've quoted. In other words, they did exactly the right things, and it resulted in a super-quick fix. You have nothing to complain about, and everything to say 'thank you' for.

You're not able to read then, as I explained why a "quick technical fix" is not enough here, and not the solution to their larger problems. You aren't grasping the larger issues.

You're not explaining why Strawberry Singh gets quick action, an apology AND a special blog post, and we get "January 18. No reports", disbelief, reluctant fixing, and silence. It's not about expecting the Lindens to act on the basis of hear-say or vocal statement -- although they do this for their friends like Strawberry or some of you regs. It's about basic common sense and good faith that when someone in the land business reports a bug that people have already shown screen shots of on the forums and confirmed they suffer from, too, you don't second guess this by saying "I went to your land and saw it wasn't in search" when in fact it was -- and the only reason a Linden could think that is because they, too, are victim of the no-see check box bug OR they randomly ran across some land for rent without the search ad based on one TP or one random pick without looking at multiple lots (as you would think as scientists they would). Three Lindens came to my office to check if it was in search over two days. What, they think I take it out of search over night???

I'll leave you the last word on this because it's pointless to argue with forum regs with built-in animus.

 

PS I don't need a blog post with my name on it or a pat on the head. I need a validation in writing either on the Grid Status page or a post that validates it occurred so that there is a public record, acknowledgement and most important, deterrence to it happening again. The idea that some fat ego infatuated with Lindens needs a back pat is a form of projection, not an understanding of how society works. 

Edited January 21, 2018 by Prokofy Neva

[Prokofy Neva]

52 minutes ago, Phil Deakins said:

Of course I used traffic bots - lots of them - and a few were models in the store. All of that was common knowledge. They were perfectly legal at the time. But that's not what you posted about in your blog, is it You posted a pic of you sitting on one of my demo beds, knowing that, according to the green dot in the mini-map, an avatar was supposed to be there, but it wasn't. So you posted that I was up to some sort of cheating/skullduggery or other. What you didn't know until I pointed it out is that the resolution in the mini-map is 16 meters, so the avatar would be somewhere nearby but not necessarily in the much smaller confined space where you took the pic. I told you in your blog that all you'd have needed to do was look on the other side of the wall, and there it was. I proved that you were wrong. It took a while, but you never owned up to your mistake. You just faded out of it, as you normally do when you're on the wrong end of a discussion.

Post the url to that blog entry and let's all have a look at the discussion between us You won't do that though. You never have each time I've asked you to post it.

Your memory is sketchy on this because you used to pretend they weren't traffic bots, but only models LOL. We all saw it! It doesn't matter if they were legal or not. What matters is that they were and are a tacky and misleading practice to cover up for content that can't sell on its own. That's what you can't own up to. So you've substituted for this another arcane discussion about a green dot behind the wall.

Of course I know about the mini-map issue but you actually have it backwards. You must not have to look at thousands of lots thousands of times using both maps constantly. The world map shows you a green dot. But that green dot may not be in the location shown on the larger World Map, as anyone who has tried to TP to a green dot can tell you.

The minimap isn't undistorted, either, but it is closer in approximation to real location when you draw it out to a bigger size. It's then that you see that the person is not where you thought they were. So, for example, if you were intending to swoop down to accuse a green dot of squatting on a rental you knew was vacant, you might find, once you got a name from the minimap and a better location, that the green dot was actually on your neighbor's land, in his own home, not squatting. This is why map-swooping is to be avoided. 

Your garbled story here is just super sad. If there's a discussion about a green dot not being where it was supposed to be, i.e. serving as "a model" ostensibly on a piece of sex furniture, obviously if I TP to your store and *I* sit in that chair, empty of the model, where indeed some of your bots were, I indicate that your bot may be where many bots were and are, up in an attic or in a box in the clouds. The issue is that your bot wasn't in the chair. If it's on the other side of a wall, so what? It could still be a bot! 

So what I said was eminently reasonable and logical, and likely true. And if your "model" was on a smoke break behind the wall and not in her chair LOL, then so what? It's not that what I've said then isn't true because...wait for it! She's still a bot! She's still a "traffic enhancer". She's still not a live person buying your furniture!

This is why continuing to argue about this is just pathetic, because you think you've done some grand "gotcha," when all you've done is reveal more of your sorry business. I don't have any need to "fade away" or "not post links" and I'm happy to have any discussion about this "lie" you think I told, but I'm not willing to waste time on it. You go write all that up and link it up on your blog, Phil, after Googling for that entry. Bye!

[Phil Deakins]

@Prokofy Neva I've no idea about Strawberry Singh, so I won't respond to that part.

10 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

You're not able to read then, as I explained why a "quick technical fix" is not enough here, and not the solution to their larger problems. You aren't grasping the larger issues.

Yes I'm able to read, ty   The only reason that a quick technical fix is not enough here is because it's not enough for you personally. It was certainly enough for everyone else. As for their larger problems, I don't know. It's their business. It's not yours or mine. They keep on making improvements to SL, and things are bound to go wrong from time to time in the process. That's the way of technical systems. I don;t see any larger issues. I just use SL, that's all, and leave the larger issues to LL.

 

10 minutes ago, Prokofy Neva said:

[...] when someone in the land business reports a bug that people have already shown screen shots of on the forums and confirmed they suffer from, too, you don't second guess this by saying "I went to your land and saw it wasn't in search" when in fact it was -- and the only reason a Linden could think that is because they, too, are victim of the no-see check box bug OR they randomly ran across some land for rent without the search ad based on one TP or one random pick without looking at multiple lots (as you would think as scientists they would). Three Lindens came to my office to check if it was in search over two days. What, they think I take it out of search over night???

What you describe there, again, is what should have happened. Of course they're going to check. It's the only way proceed. I don't see any problems with the way it was handled.

I think what you're miffed about is not getting a 'well-done' from LL for reporting the problem. And no blog post with your name in it