Encroached objects can't be returnedHi Guys: I have finally after all these years learned that I can return an object someone has left on my land without having to ask them to come and get it and waiting until they do (sometimes they never do). It

[Haven Heartsong]

Hi Guys:

I have finally after all these years learned that I can return an object someone has left on my land without having to ask them to come and get it and waiting until they do (sometimes they never do).  It has been great.  I have some new land and can simple return the things encroaching on the parcels.  Today however, I came across something which I didn't anticipate.  I tried to return an object and I got a message saying I can't.

I checked the parcel boundary with a parcel tracer and sure enough the object had broached my property lines.  I then  activated the SL 'About Land', and it showed that the object was indeed on my side.   I click to return it again and was again told I can't.

The object belongs to the person who used to own the parcel I just bought.  It is on another of his parcels, which is also for sale.

This is the message I received:  "Removal of the object 'Name of the object' from the simulator is disallowed by the permissions system."

Does anyone know what this means?

Thanks,

Xendoras

[Rolig Loon]

Congratulations on the belated discovery. 

4 minutes ago, Xendoras said:

The object belongs to the person who used to own the parcel I just bought.  It is on another of his parcels, which is also for sale.

I assume you mean that a different copy of the object is on another parcel that he owns.

Anyway... what counts is where the root prim of the object is.  If 90% of the object is over the boundary and in your parcel but the root prim is outside the parcel, you can't return it.  It's not really on your land.  (This is the way that Linden Lab makes Linden Homes have zero L.I., by the way.  A Linden Home may look like it's on the parcel that you occupy, but its root is actually on LL property, so it's entire L.I. counts there.)  Contact the owner and ask him to remove the object. 

[Haven Heartsong]

Thank you.

No, there is only one copy of the object and it is on the adjoining parcel, with the exception of the part which crossed the parcel lines of course.

I thought that was the case too.  That if the root prim was not over the line you couldn't move it, that is why I never bothered to try.  I have built bridges which cross regional borders and I make sure that about 15 meters are on the region from which the bridge starts:  that way I know it will not let people fall through.

But that description doesn't actually jive with the explanation I read in the wiki.  This is a quote from the SL wiki page on encroachment:  "When someone tries to return an object the server will first check the normal object and parcel permissions and if those fail it will then build a collision body in the physics engine for nearby parcels and then perform a collision query between the object and the parcels. If the object overlaps one of their parcels then it will be returned."  (quoted from SL wiki:  http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Parcel_encroachment) All Linden owned mainland regions have been enabled with this return protocol since about 2012:  who knew?

That still leaves the question of why in this case, this particular object won't be returned.  I have returned encroached objects which have encroached this way before.

[ChinRey]

It can get a bit messy when you open several threads with the same question ont he forum but to repeat and elaborate on my response to the other instance, system vegetation, that is "Linden trees" and "Linden grass", are not detected by the physics engine at all so the server will only know where they are centered, not whether they encroach on other parcels.

If that is the kind of object(s) you have trouble with, the only solution is still to ask the owner to remove them or, if that fails, file an abuse report and hope Linden Lab will sort it out. You may have to file several AR's before they react.

[Lindal Kidd]

1 hour ago, Xendoras said:

Thank you.

No, there is only one copy of the object and it is on the adjoining parcel, with the exception of the part which crossed the parcel lines of course.

I thought that was the case too.  That if the root prim was not over the line you couldn't move it, that is why I never bothered to try.  I have built bridges which cross regional borders and I make sure that about 15 meters are on the region from which the bridge starts:  that way I know it will not let people fall through.

But that description doesn't actually jive with the explanation I read in the wiki.  This is a quote from the SL wiki page on encroachment:  "When someone tries to return an object the server will first check the normal object and parcel permissions and if those fail it will then build a collision body in the physics engine for nearby parcels and then perform a collision query between the object and the parcels. If the object overlaps one of their parcels then it will be returned."  (quoted from SL wiki:  http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Parcel_encroachment) All Linden owned mainland regions have been enabled with this return protocol since about 2012:  who knew?

That still leaves the question of why in this case, this particular object won't be returned.  I have returned encroached objects which have encroached this way before.

If the object is Phantom, it has no physics collision envelope, and this test would fail.

[Rolig Loon]

3 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

If the object is Phantom, it has no physics collision envelope, and this test would fail.

Or if it's a mesh object with child prims set to physics shape type NONE,

[Haven Heartsong]

3 minutes ago, Lindal Kidd said:

If the object is Phantom, it has no physics collision envelope, and this test would fail.

It's not phantom, I can stand on it.

 

29 minutes ago, ChinRey said:

It can get a bit messy when you open several threads with the same question ont he forum but to repeat and elaborate on my response to the other instance, system vegetation, that is "Linden trees" and "Linden grass", are not detected by the physics engine at all so the server will only know where they are centered, not whether they encroach on other parcels.

If that is the kind of object(s) you have trouble with, the only solution is still to ask the owner to remove them or, if that fails, file an abuse report and hope Linden Lab will sort it out. You may have to file several AR's before they react.

And yes that was my bad, I do apologize.  I realized I had put the question on the wrong part of the site. I didn't know if I was allowed to remove a post once it was up.

[ChinRey]

Just now, Xendoras said:

It's not phantom, I can stand on it.

In that case the only explanation I can think of is that it's a server glitch. If it's mainland, contact Linden Lab and ask them to restart the sim - it's probably faster to wait for Live Chat support to open than to open a support case about it. If it's a private estate, ask the estate owner to restatrt the sim.

[Qie Niangao]

3 hours ago, Xendoras said:

I then  activated the SL 'About Land', and it showed that the object was indeed on my side. 

Wait, you mean it's counting as Land Impact on your parcel? Because that's not merely encroaching, it means the object origin is on your parcel. That wouldn't explain why you can't return it, but it would suggest something even stranger is going on.

If it is just encroaching... all I can think of is that objects belonging to Estate managers (maybe others) can be exempt from return for encroachment. On Mainland, that certainly applies to Governor Linden's stuff, but maybe that can be extended, or misapplied by the simulator somehow.

[Whirly Fizzle]

Related: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/OPEN-143

Where's the location of this object?

[Love Zhaoying]

16 hours ago, Rolig Loon said:

Anyway... what counts is where the root prim of the object is.  If 90% of the object is over the boundary and in your parcel but the root prim is outside the parcel, you can't return it.  It's not really on your land.  (This is the way that Linden Lab makes Linden Homes have zero L.I., by the way.  A Linden Home may look like it's on the parcel that you occupy, but its root is actually on LL property, so it's entire L.I. counts there.)  Contact the owner and ask him to remove the object. 

Xendoras, See Rolig's answer above.