Best Handling Car?

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

I don't like name and shame lists except when people are actually injuring others in some way, but if there are actually people who check or use lists as filters when shopping, then more power to them. 

My problem is when the lists are used primarily to shame creators who are making things the way they want, and clearly advertised as such, to give the impression that creators who do not make things as some peolple or most people or all people would like are somehow injuring others.  

If the point is simply to make a shopping guide, why not make a list of people who DO make things the way you want?  (Oh, but then what fun is there in that?) 

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Assuming we're looking at the same thread, the suggestion to make a list of people who do make things the way they want was the very next post after the post where the words "name and shame" appeared.

[Pamela Galli]

It is the name and shame list I find distateful, for the reasons stated. Its purpose is not really to assist people in shopping, is it? Permission filters do that job for most people's purposes.  It's to punish those who dare to make things "the wrong way".

If you want to make a list of Good Creators, that might help some shoppers, but really, permission filters dothe job, so that would be redundant.

 

[Qie Niangao]

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Jules Catlyn wrote:

I was following this thread and the other one about selling vehicles no-mod. I am a vehicle seller and i sell no mod for the most part. Back in the day when i started i did sell mod vehicles. This lead to a barrage of service calls from people changing/adding parts or messing with the scripts and then expecting me to fix all their issues because i sold them a mod item, They expected me to fix any issue they had after their modifying went wrong. Don't get me wrong i am still very much available for my clients but those calls wore me out. So i decided to turn to selling no mod accepting that i would loose sales over that. The scripts i use are of the pre-bought kind "bike" scripts as many call them but very much finetuned to serve their purpose in cars. They leave a lot of room for people to adjust the handling to their liking and i often assist with that to give people the optimal experience with their cars.

Hate me for selling no-mod but it made my SL a lot more fun again, so it was a very personal choice. [...]

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Surely I have no standing for any opinions about providing customer service, not having had SL product customers for years. I can't honestly say it was the demands of customer service that made me lose interest, but I can see how that might not always be fun for everybody.

It seems a bit surprising, though, that Mod perm would make such a big difference to customer service load. Well, it might sort of require a redelivery terminal so buyers could fetch a fresh copy in case they modify without first making a copy; I can imagine that happening sometimes. 

I wonder if maybe it's more a case of selective sampling: that one gets different customers for Mod and no-Mod items. Maybe folks who buy Mod items are simply more apt to engage with those items' creators -- for support or just to schmooze about SL transportation, etc. -- and to a busy creator maybe those customers are not always as interesting and charming as they imagine themselves to be. I've had some of my best times in SL chatting with folks who use scripts I write for them (or with them), but "busy creator" is nearly the opposite of my SL aspirations.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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Pamela Galli wrote:

It is

the name and shame list

I find distateful, for the reasons stated. Its purpose is not really to assist people in shopping, is it? Permission filters do that job for most people's purposes.  It's to punish those who dare to make things "the wrong way".

If you want to make a list of Good Creators, that might help some shoppers, but really, permission filters dothe job, so that would be redundant.

 

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Theresa Tennyson stands in the middle of the car lot in-world, looking for the permissions filter.

Nope, can't find it...

Vehicles tend to be fairly expensive and there is a lot of variation in quality, and they require extensive manipulation in-world. They're the last things you should buy on the Marketplace. Besides, permissions are notoriously dodgy for vehicles. As an individual object they'll just about always appear to be "no mod" because even "mod" vehicles use no-mod scripts, and there are advertisers who call things "modifiable" when they have scripts to change aspects despite technically being no-mod.

Personally I don't really care about permissions on vehicles - many of my favorite builders make no-mod vehicles but I like them because they work. Yes, I have wished some older vehicles were modifiable to update them with new features or to fix annoyances, and I've done custom work on a modifiable van that I wouldn't have bought if it was no-mod, but personally it's not a deal-breaker in general.

After a while I've found who makes vehicles that work for me and who doesn't and I tend to shop from certain creators. In other words, I have a list. I know others have lists and I'd be glad to hear who's on them - and also who's off them and why.

Which is what the OP was looking for in the first place.

 

[Pamela Galli]

Oh, Teresa, you will thank me for this tip! 

UUse the marketplace search to find creators and products you like, then go to inworld stores to see them. It is much more efficient than using inworld search for the purpose, and filters are just one reason why. Many product listings have a link to inworld location.

In any case, if you really want to just search inworld, wouldn't a Best Creator List work better than an Avoid creator list? 

[ChinRey]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

In my experience, the script load of

riders

makes more difference to region crossings than the

vehicle's

scripts,

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An asset is an asset and it shouldn't matter whether it's attached to the avatar or part of the vehicle. But an avatar tends to be a lot heavier than any driveable vehicle of course.

 

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Yeah, I know: that doesn't make any sense. Why should Physics=None Mesh geometry ever even be known to a sim? I would like to think this is superstition, but it sure seems replicable.

---

I don't know how or why visual models affect and are affected by sim crossing but they clearly are. When you cross sim borders you can often see objects in the new sim suddenly vanish and then reappear.

 

I'm not planning to buy any more SL cars so my opinion may not matter but I do live next to a Linden Road and I really, really wish car makers could learn how to make mesh.

No wait, that was to broad a sweeping statement, there are of course some excellent mesh makers who create cars - and not only the two I mentioned earlier. But the average standard is pitiful to out it mildly, poorly optimized meshes with bloated LI, bloated lag and disastrous LoD, clearly uploaded by people with no understanding whatsoever how to make mesh for Second Life.

[xthexWinner]

Been driving on SL for 10+years and believe me when I say there is NONE better than CHC Custom Cars - best scripts and design on SL, other makes cannot compete!!

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/84388

 

Check it out! Best SL vehicles, PERIOD. 

[Codex Alpha]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Okay,

for cheap disposable newbie-friendly stuff, it hardly matters

. But still: why would a creator choose to make something no-Mod? I know you'd

never

do that with your products.

You respect your customers too much for that.

There are a tiny handful of cases, usually involving some sort of role-play, where no-Mod serves an actual function in the product's operation. Otherwise

it's creators who think too little of their customers

, or

just think too little, period.

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Anti-competitive (in context of defaming a potential competitor to ensure one's own place), elitist (claiming one's group is more enlightened, talented or knowledgable than another), condescending statements bolded in red.

1) Implying those who disagree create inferior products, not very SL-friendly or respectful to newer and aspiring creators

2) Implying those who disagree don't respect their customers

3) Implying those who disagree haven't thought their choices through.

4) General opinion logical fallacy 'appeal to authority', that having more experience means one's opinion is superior over someone else.

5) Projection of traits onto others but comes out of their own mouths (or typing in this forum)

 

Education > Condescension

 

[Qie Niangao]

What on earth do you think "anti-competitive" means?

And Elitist? Condescending? uh, I'm not the one defending the precious "Creator" class from the unwashed masses daring to modify the sacred Creations. That's elitist.

[Pussycat Catnap]

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ChinRey wrote:

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Yeah, I know: that doesn't make any sense. Why should Physics=None Mesh geometry ever even be known to a sim? I would like to think this is superstition, but it sure seems replicable.

---

I don't know how or why visual models affect and are affected by sim crossing but they clearly are. When you cross sim borders you can often see objects in the new sim suddenly vanish and then reappear.

---

Non-physics just means it doesn't do physics calculations for that portion of things - it still has to render it and process its scripts and so on.

My experience has been that motorcycle sellers have better scripts than car sellers when it comes to sim crossings.

[sau] has my ideal for this - but they are no-mod so there's risk there. They are also counter to my above thoughts - [sau] has a very complex looking model but is very low land impact.

If you can find "tanakaakio inshan" still I have a very nice car from them - it doesn't handle as well as my car from "haru kappler" - but it crosses sims better.

 

I have the motorcycles and the car from Tanakaakio rezzed on my land at http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/Guittarez/178/15/65 in a format where you can get into any of them and drive away (I have a script that will replace the item you drive off with, so don't worry about returning it - in fact I prefer if you don't).

I don't like that these ground vehicles are no-mod. It is on my list to replace them if I can find mod options.

I like to change the sit poses out for my own choices, and I prefer to resize precisely and not with some clunky HUD / popup window. I also like to retexture things. My boats have my own textures - and being mod they can be scaled to my desired size, and I can remove or add poses. I don't need the sex poses in my boat, but I do like to have more dances and sunbathing poses for sitting on the deck.

- There is also value in removing crew poses from a copy so I can sail in piece. As a female avatar I find I often have guys take advantage of the crew poses of vehicles to sit on them and start 'chatting me up' while I'm trying to enjoy a relaxing virtual trip...

 

[Pussycat Catnap]

---

xthexWinner wrote:

Been driving on SL for 10+years and believe me when I say there is

NONE better

than

CHC Custom Cars

- best scripts and design on SL, other makes cannot compete!!

https://marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/84388

 

Check it out! Best SL vehicles,

PERIOD. 

---

Thanks for that recommendation. I'm going to check them out. I see that they are Copy / Mod.

- So that's a BIG plus even if I don't like how they handle, I can fix it.

 

Oh: They have one vehicle out for free right now due to Christmas holiday. So that's a great chance to get a "permanent demo" you can take home and try out on your own local sims.

EDIT: Wait... 2 free vehicles side by side. Grabbed them both. Making a list of the vendor for future items if I like these.

EDIT 2: Initial impression: She has done what boat makers do - each vehicle handles differently, based on what she thinks it should handle like. I've now driven a small car that had trouble cornering and a 50's station wagon that drives like "grandma on the freeway doing 15mph".

- This was the reason I went with [sau] for motorcycles, they each handled differently. A LOT of ground-vehicle sellers use one script setup for all their vehicles and all you're doing at the vendor is picking a look. I like each vehicle I have to be it's own unique driving experience.

 

 

 

[Qie Niangao]

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:

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ChinRey wrote:

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Qie Niangao wrote:

Yeah, I know: that doesn't make any sense. Why should Physics=None Mesh geometry ever even be known to a sim? I would like to think this is superstition, but it sure seems replicable.

---

I don't know how or why visual models affect and are affected by sim crossing but they clearly are. When you cross sim borders you can often see objects in the new sim suddenly vanish and then reappear.

---

Non-physics just means it doesn't do physics calculations for that portion of things - it still has to render it and process its scripts and so on.

---

But the rendering is on the viewer, not the sim, so the mystery is why the visual (non-physics) complexity of a mesh vehicle seems to matter when crossing sim borders. Shouldn't that geometry be a little secret between the viewer and the CDN? Like, is there something special the viewer is doing with that visual geometry when it crosses a border?

(Scripts certainly are sim-side, and so it's completely understandable that they should matter in any sim-crossing object; it's specifically the effect of visual Mesh complexity that seems a mystery.)

[ChinRey]

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Qie Niangao wrote:

But the

rendering

is on the

viewer

, not the sim, so the mystery is why the visual (non-physics) complexity of a mesh vehicle seems to matter

when crossing sim borders.

---

I don't actually know if the sim is involved in it, it may well be all client side, but it's easy enough to see that the entire scene is redrawn at sim crossings, adding considerably to the overall lag and mess and also often causing annoying render failures.

Move one meter towards a sim border and the viewer makes some minor adjustments to the scene. Move one more meter across the sim border and suddenly it has to recalculate the entire scene from scratch. I can't understand why it happens, there shouldn't be any need for that.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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ChinRey wrote:

---

Qie Niangao wrote:

But the

rendering

is on the

viewer

, not the sim, so the mystery is why the visual (non-physics) complexity of a mesh vehicle seems to matter

when crossing sim borders.

---

I don't actually know if the sim is involved in it, it may well be all client side, but it's easy enough to see that the entire scene is redrawn at sim crossings, adding considerably to the overall lag and mess and also often causing annoying render failures.

Move one meter towards a sim border and the viewer makes some minor adjustments to the scene. Move one more meter across the sim border and

suddenly it has to recalculate the entire scene from scratch.

I can't understand why it happens, there shouldn't be any need for that.

---

As far as I can tell, this simply doesn't happen. Depending on your draw distance, you can be connected to more than one region simultaneously and see things in all of those regions and you keep seeing them when you go from one region to another. What you could be seeing is things entering and leaving your camera field of view and their being erased and redrawn - it can look like what you're describing when you pivot your avatar and are looking at things toward the far range of your draw distance.

A vehicle and/or avatar in motion are a special case, though. For anything to exist in Second Life it needs to be in a simulator and when you move from one region to another your avatar, vehicle and various goods and chattels disappear from one region and appear in another. It looks like the viewer has some ability to acknowledge that these things are actually the same things it had just drawn but sometimes it gets confused.

[ChinRey]

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

As far as I can tell, this simply doesn't happen.

---

No, it does happen. I see it fairly regularly in SL: items at practically point blank range and clearly in view suddenly vanish and then reappear when I cross a sim border.

It may be particularly noticeable at Coniston since I have house rows along streets crossing sim borders there. It's very hard no to notice when the houses you're walking right next to or the road under your avatar's feet suddenly disappear.

I can't say if this is related to the sim crossing vehicle breakdown though. It may be a completely different issue.

[Theresa Tennyson]

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ChinRey wrote:

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Theresa Tennyson wrote:

As far as I can tell, this simply doesn't happen.

---

No, it does happen. I see it fairly regularly in SL: items at practically point blank range and clearly in view suddenly vanish and then reappear when I cross a sim border.

It may be particularly noticeable at Coniston since I have house rows along streets crossing sim borders there. It's very hard no to notice when the houses you're walking right next to or the road under your avatar's feet suddenly disappear.

I can't say if this is related to the sim crossing vehicle breakdown though. It may be a completely different issue.

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Some things may vanish occasionally, but that doesn't mean the viewer is completely recalculating the scene. I and my extended SL family currently own Mainland in three separated areas, all of which are hard against region borders. In one our properties are built up on both sides of the border. I have never seen any evidence that suddenly it has to "recalculate the entire scene from scratch." I walked up and down one of your streets in the Coniston area across the region border several times and saw no indication that I had changed regions other than my avatar's name tag blinking briefly. Could you provide evidence that this recalculation is happening?

[Drake1 Nightfire]

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Benson Gravois wrote:

Has anyone found a good handling car that stays on the do roads and crosses sons well? Are there any that fit this description that are cheap?

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My 2011 Hyundai Santa Fe handles incredibly well. Although I did test drive a 2017 corvette that was like it was glued to the roadway. Oh, to be able to buy that car.

[ChinRey]

I suppose this thread is half dead and off topic by now but we haven't mentioned Pro Street Cars yet. Only available in-world, not on MP, and quite expensive but quality costs and this is serious quality, even Arton Rotaru/Rubber Bunny level judging by the few cars I've seen.