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New MP Beta search - what it means for you and me?


Tamara Artis
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SL Marketplace offered me to try new search and I noticed nothing lol, I was searching for some full perm blankets and it was same as in the regular search. So I am curious, what exactly is new and how its changing the MP? I have searched the blogs for news but nothing....

 

One thing that made me go yay is that my 2 poses are on the first page in Posing animations under "Relevance", one of them being first. But they were always somewhere around there... 

 

Did it make any changes to your listings? 

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We don't have much information on the search. In November the Lab announced the Beta version of the search. See: https://community.secondlife.com/t5/Featured-News/Introducing-Marketplace-Search-Beta/ba-p/2978221

The results are supposed to be more relavent to the search term. The current search is pretty lame. Try 'steampunk' in the currentt search and again in the new search. The results are dramatically different. I've looked at some of the individual iems in the results of the current search and can come up with no reason for why they are in the results. With the new one, the results make more sense to me.

I suspect some searches will produce nearly the same results in either engine. But, the few I have tried are better.

There are 19 pages of feedback from users to the Lab here: Marketplace Search Beta Now Available

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Oh so its old... pfff I hoped for something new and shiny! So what, now its going to be like on eBay or similar sites where you have all possible styles right there in the title of the product lol

 

Thanks ladies for the replies, I really have to update myself on whats happening... good that its going slow :D 

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From what I could tell when I last tested the beta search, there was more weight on the item name which may not have a huge impact on individual items, but it had a hug impact on community keywords like steampunk.  Currently there are no steampunk items on the first page of the MP only 2 or 3 on each of the next 5 pages, under the beta search it was close to 100%

 

 

 

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Well... i shouldnt have check my store with the new search system. Really...

Because i open the page by relevance and what do i see at the bottom ? Things ive been selling 6 years ago and that i deleted from the website for years. Of course no pics, and no listing either bec when i click on the item it leads me to the MP home page again, but they are here, doing my MP shop all messy again.

One can say im picky, but really.... i take care of making the things correctly for it all looks good.... and every now and then, LL comes with something new and mess again. And i start to be tired to always have to clean their mess !

 

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Pamela Galli wrote:

I have been wondering if they forgot about the project, or hoped we would. 

I seem to remember I saw a fairly recent comment from a Linden on a JIRA about it but I can't find any open and public JIRAs related to it at all now and I may be wrong.

It's too late now in any case. If it takes them so long to fix a relatively minor issue with MP, they're not going to heva enough time to address half of the major issues this century.

I used to tell my students that it didn't matter how fast they progresed as long as they moved in the right direction. I guess I was wrong there. This is ridiculous.

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Yeah I saw some blank listings too... It is a bug that yet has to be discovered :D

I believe whatever it is, that it will get fixed somehow, or someone will find a workaround. Nothing is perfect, no need to get upset about the things we can't change... (I'm picky too)

 

I did some testing now...

Old MP typed "rug" in the search = 12 results and only 1 rug (sex rug) on the first page, rest are livingroom, ocean cottage,sex bed, sex HUD, mesh house, carpet, living room set, bedroom, love HUD, hot tub and another sex HUD. 

New MP search typed "rug" in the search 0 12 results and all are rugs! Woooo 

Good enough for me. 

 

 

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Well, you obviously never got your MP store all messed by LL. 

I got it several time and the worst has been when i got wrong pics (not mines and ugly ones) attached to 3 of my items for 1 whole year.

So well the " that it will get fixed somehow, or someone will find a workaround " is not reassuring me at all when its about LL. 

I am happy the search is working more relevantly but if the price for it is that my store will remain that messy for one more year, im not ok at all... i dont have the sense of the sacrifice that much developped (sorry).

I dont even know how those items can still be in the data base as i have deleted them years ago... ahhhhh wait.... yes, they are those ones we are asking for years they delete them totally from the database bec they are a pain everytime we have to scroll in our listing for setting related items..... 

So now on top of being a pain each time we are setting a related items listing, they will also polluate our MP store pages. 

Well... forgive me but having the obvious proof of LL's ability to mess with database, right away in the first page of my MP store doesnt make me happy. And yes, I'm quite upset, but well, as it is not the first time they do such mess, one starts to get used to it. 

So im more disillusioned than upset, to be honnest.

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whoaaaa....

idk if i should laugh or cry (i think im going to choose the first one and go to bed anyway).

So i just checked again my store with the new beta search site and ..... Tada ! what do i see in page 3 ?????

hahhahahahhaha i cant believe it lol..

there is one of those horrible pics that has been attached to one of my items for one whole year ! It's back !

oh well, this Market place is pure insanity ! Im not even going to look further bec im prettty sure the 2 or 3 other horrible pictures unrightly attached to my items are back too...

So the new market place in a nutshell : new search engine but ALL the old bugs are back ! Way to go !

so yeah.... one step further, 3 steps back ! 

Clap clap clap...

 

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Hi Trinity, 

That's a regression, we're looking into it.  Thanks for posting about it.  While we investigate, those listings have been blocked so they're no longer visible in your store.  

Dear all, if you notice other regressions in the beta, please file a jira.  We love it when we get jira with detailed info! 

Thanks :)

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This is an observation, NOT A COMPLAINT.... This is a BETA and there WILL BE BUGS!

I have noticed something...

It appears that items from my store are missing when I view it from the BETA marketplace.... When I switch back to the old version the missing items are back again.. That means if people are using the new beta search some of my merchandise may possibly be excluded from some results.  =(

I respectfully submit that there needs to be a link to documentation on using the new search once a user selects to be redirected into the new engine. How are we to know what the new features are if they are completely transparent to us?

 

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You are giving far too much prominence to words in the merchants name. This is very bad since merchant names usually have little to do with specific types of merchandise and the SLM is inundated with merchant names. Guaranteed fail. Can't make heads or tails out of the rest of the 'logic' in the product placements doing a relevance search. The old system based on popularity is much better still.

Plus this new system encourages long merchant title names which would be another very bad thing to encourage. Even if significant limitations are placed upon merchant name length.

The way I would do it, is allow product keywords to be emphasised by the merchant is some way.  For example, allow repeat usage of the same keyword to give the product a higher placement on search results when that keyword is used. Total sales and recent sales should still take presidents however. Especially recent sales as those are a significant indicator of quality (to save the consumer time and heartache, and help keep them playing and spending their money in the game). Keywords for each product should be limited to about 12 to 15 maximum.

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Oh yes, and I failed to say the first time that significantly bumping up products with the search words in the product name as opposed to existing only in product keywords, only encourages long product names just like merchant name prominence does. Again, if this area is limited in allowed words or characters, then that potential problem could be greatly minimized. Don't copy Google or Yahoo generalized algorithms. They won't work for SL which needs to be much more target specific.

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SpankRZ wrote:

This is an observation, NOT A COMPLAINT.... This is a BETA and there WILL BE BUGS!

 

Well, when its about MY store and someelse did mess it, i think it s normal to say it. Whatever it's interpretated as a complaint, a rant, or just an observation is not my problem because all 3 legitimate anyway. Im not going to congrat them, and even less shuting my mouth. 

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(maybe it got fixed by now) I just went to check your store Trinity, in the Beta MP, and on first 8 pages all items have "PC" in their name. 

Its a nasty thing what happens with your store, and I am sorry to say there is nothing we can do but wait to see it fixed... if I were you I would try to get some advantage over it, for example use it to write blog posts about it and connect with other merchants who have similar problems. 

Maybe its a good idea for merchants to check their stores with both new and old MP opened at the same time and compare results. Make sure you double check that both versions show same sorting - either by relevance or best selling because by default old MP sorts them by relevance and new by best selling (only stores are sorted this way, categories are sorted by relevance). Compare ranking with the number of sales for the items plus keywords you used. It can help us to optimise our stuff and get better rankings in the new search :) 

Does anyone knows what effect the age of the item has on rank? Are older items with the same number of sales placed better than new ones? 

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 Well i think there is a big misunderstanding (probably bec my english is far from being perfect)

Im not doing a drama about what is happening in my store right now (there is long time i accepted the fact that the MP will never work correctly), but im just alerting here in the forum for MP team and other merchants aswell that i've noticed a bug on my MP store. But indeed, i cant say im happy to see this bug happening on my store, and as i am me, im ranting a bit.

As it is still beta, i thought a jira was not the right thing to do, but from the answer i just got from Grumpity, i will make one as soon as ill be back at home after rl work.

Another thing that has not been understood correctly is that i dont talk about my MP store sorted by the default filter (best selling) but by relevance.

So if you look here https://betasearch-marketplace.secondlife.com/stores/51553?utf8=%E2%9C%93&search%5Blayout%5D=gallery&search%5Bcategory_id%5D=&search%5Bsort%5D=_score_desc&search%5Bper_page%5D=12&search%5Bkeywords%5D=&search%5Bprice_low%5D=&search%5Bprice_high%5D=&search%5Bprim_count_low%5D=&search%5Bprim_count_high%5D=&search%5Bcopy_permission%5D=0&search%5Bmodify_permission%5D=0&search%5Btransfer_permission%5D=0 you will see at the end of the first page and in page 3 what i am talking about.

And im not going to spend time on writing a blog about this, english is not my native language and obviously, it's hard for me to be well understood and i have already a pretty busy RL and SL.

But you are right, merchants should check their MP now, while it's still beta and check also with every filters (or however you call this, i mean 'best selling", "relevance", "'newest to oldest" etc..)

On my side, i will open this jira later to day and wait they fix this lil bug.

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Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

But you are right, merchants should check their MP now, while it's still beta and check also with every filters (or however you call this, i mean 'best selling", "relevance", "'newest to oldest" etc..)

I'm not going to waste time beta testing the new Marketplace, I've resigned to the fact that we will all be dead of old age long before even the most blatant flaws have been fixed. But since you mention it, I had a quick look at my own store and there is absolutely no relation between the "Best Selling" sorting and the actual sales figures.

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ChinRey wrote:


Trinity Yazimoto wrote:

But you are right, merchants should check their MP now, while it's still beta and check also with every filters (or however you call this, i mean 'best selling", "relevance", "'newest to oldest" etc..)

I'm not going to waste time beta testing the new Marketplace, I've resigned to the fact that we will all be dead of old age long before even the most blatant flaws have been fixed. But since you mention it, I had a quick look at my own store and there is absolutely no relation between the "Best Selling" sorting and the actual sales figures.

Oh yes, that too.

But mind you it's not right either in the normal MP.

I have a beauty spot that i sell for 1 l$ only and sell tons. Several each day for several years, and it is from far my best seller.

in the beta search with '"best selling" this item lands on page 20 (lol) and in the normal MP it is at page 28 (i have 29 in total) (lol again)

when i say it's my best seller, its not just the doble of the second one in the list. This item has been sold more than 900 times more than the second. Still it is as page 20 for one version and 28 for the other one. And the second one is also not in first page either.

so well, finally, see, there is an improvement....page 20 is better than page 28 (lol one more time)

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Also, can someone explain me why i have 28 pages in the normal MP and only 25 in the beta one ? 

As i have so much time doing nothing, now i m going to have to check every item and see what is missing in my beta store ..... (happy dance)

 

Eta : the normal store says i have : 305 in the apparel category, 32 in accessory and 1 in avatar component.

The beta store says i have : 258 in apparel, 30 in accessory and 1 in avatar component 

Where did my items go ? Seriously ?

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Let me elaborate on my idea a bit. Say I have a Drow Elf skin for sale. If I am allowed 12 keywords, then I can emphasize say 'drow' three times, 'dark elf' three times, 'skin' three times, and that would leave me with three more keywords for the rest to place under perhaps 'evil', 'demon', and 'fantasy'. 

So whenever someone types in 'drow' and/or 'dark elf' and/or skin, (especially when it is 'and' over 'or'), my Drow Elf skin product should jump up on the rankings pretty good. (Perhaps be a multiplier effect of prior/recent sales to keep the quality aspect alive). Of course these things are relative as others will be doing the same, but such a system would work much better relevance wise compared to what beta accomplishes so far imho.

 

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