SLGone - What does this mean to LL?

[LlewLlwyd]

ALTHOUGH LL claims that they had no financial interest in the fees subscribers paid for the soon-to-be-defunct SLGo, it is obviously a PR disaster for them; what will be their stance going forward regarding customers who don't have sufficiently powerful systems to run SL; what will their position be regarding the availability of SL on tablets and smartphones; what will they do instead of extended boozy "liaison" lunches with the OnLive management?

And what impact will this have on SL V2? Will it hasten the perceived need for a replacement platform product which will be focused on the interactive touchscreen interfaces which threaten to become ubiquitous as Microsoft dump anything which needs a keyboard and mouse to chase after Android?

Or will some development resources be refocused on the current SL, to prevent leakage of existing and potential new users to the competition. Might they try to address the replacement and/or enhancement of bloated code and antiquated servers that lags and crashes, and even offer an SLLite experience, or take an app component approach to reducing processing power requirements?

***Please, no rose-tinted spectacles or LL shills; keep it real***

[AzusaSato]

Before the doom and gloom lets wait and see a response from LL on what has transpired with Onlive. For all we know this is a big shock to LL as well. Everyone headed out and closing for good Friday and Easter Sunday and then bam Onlive is sold. People heading home knowing their jobs are gone for what s suppose to be a happy Easter. Also we should remember that there are other streaming services out there that LL can turn too in order for us to play SL on both desktop and mobile devices. Lets hold n give LL to respond.

[Vivienne Schell]

Well, I guess that Sony quietly wanted to tell Linden Lab custiomers that they are better off by purchasing a 64 bit, 8 GIG mem PC with an ultrafast GPU. That´s all. I doubt that Mr. Altbergs public enthusiasm over the supposed to be SL replacement product (which has no name yet, but probably a rendering engine or something)  was taken in account at Sony HQ. And what kind of Linden Lab  "PR image" could be damaged? Is there any "PR image" leftwhich could be damaged more as it already is?

 

[Caitlin Tobias]

Sony only bought  the patents of OnLive, I really doubt LL or SL was even on Sony's radar when doing the take-over. I am guessing the loss of SLgo is just some collateral damage and not as big as some would want it to be.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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LlewLlwyd wrote:

ALTHOUGH

LL claims that they had no financial interest in the fees subscribers paid for the soon-to-be-defunct SLGo, it is obviously a PR disaster for them; what will be their stance going forward regarding customers who don't have sufficiently powerful systems to run SL; what will their position be regarding the availability of SL on tablets and smartphones; what will they do instead of extended boozy "liaison" lunches with the OnLive management?

And what impact will this have on SL V2? Will it hasten the perceived need for a replacement

platform

product which will be focused on the interactive touchscreen interfaces which threaten to become ubiquitous as Microsoft dump anything which needs a keyboard and mouse to chase after Android?

Or will some development resources be refocused on the current SL, to prevent leakage of existing and potential new users to the competition. Might they try to address the replacement and/or enhancement of bloated code and antiquated servers that lags and crashes, and even offer an SLLite experience, or take an app component approach to reducing processing power requirements?

***Please, no rose-tinted spectacles or LL shills; keep it real***

---

Keeping it real.  This the reality:

This is no more a PR disaster for LL than for other gaming companies that used the service.  They always made it clear this was a separate company.  They had no control over what happened.  Blame Sony if you want to blame someone but this was a business decision.  There are no charities involved with making SL accessible to anyone with a old computer.  Even SLGo charged for their service.

As far as customers that dont have a powerful enough system to run SL, why should LL do anything?  No one said sign up for SL and we guarantee the computer you do that on can run it forever.  Should Microsoft not update Windows because some people have dinosaur machines that can't run the new versions of Windows?  This has been an issue for years before SLGo came into being.  SL is not a life necessity.  While I sympathize with people who have older machines, I am afraid there is nothing to be done except to upgrade if they want to continue in SL. 

This will not impact the new grid at all which will NOT be SL V2 but a whole new world.  Chances are they will be developing viewers for phones and tablets.  But I suspect we will still have whining and nashing of teeth when people discover their old phones won't work with them.

Finally what competition are you referring to?  SL has none to date. None of the open sims are.  Their tech is way behind SL and their content and populations aren't enough to really attract SL power users as a replacement.  There is not another company that provides what SL provides.  SLGo proved that it was a service that was needed so perhaps one of the TPV developers or other developers will step in a fill the niche, I doubt LL is going to.  They are busy working on the new grid.

 

 

[LlewLlwyd]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

This is no more a PR disaster for LL than for other gaming companies that used the service.

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THAT is like saying that World War II was no more of a disaster for Germany than for Italy and Japan.

***And nowadays I reckon it's WOW and Minecraft that are competing for the majority of new users; not the minority "I'm a designer, I use iStuff" ones, but the sex, violence and gratuitous idiocy ones***

[KarenMichelle Lane]

My take on this is that the SLGo was never in a profit making position. I approach this only from the POV of the back of house equipment needed to run SL in a capacity allowing the delivery of High Quality graphics to the paying customer.

We all know the hardware and communication bandwidth needed to run SL well. This requirement far exceeds that for any other static gaming world/platform if for no other reason that the amount of dynamic data being streamed to keep the avatar account's worldview current.

The move by Linden Lab 2 years ago  using back-of-house servers for a majority of the baking rendering only helped the business model for a business like SL Go. Still, the class of server hardware required to host the remote sessions and to also perform the local rendering the session POV imagery had to be horrifically expensive. Visions of those rooms of server racks that Peter Jackson's Weta Digital company used filled with high-end GPU cards comes to mind.

Not to mention the customization needed to manage the Terminal Service functions of the hosted SL session. Most Terminal Services Hosting is NOT high-end graphics oriented.

I'm not too sure that Linden Research received a significant income stream from the SLGo business venture. I am sure that SLGo and its foray into hosting SL never paid for itself in its time alive after its last buyout.

To Linden Lab I'm afraid this means that the perceived support for those account holders with poor connectivity/PC equipment will once again be in the forefront of the complain-o-crats laments.

Is there something that LL should do as a result of the SLGo business folding? Not really.

The takeaway might be to make sure that the new vision of SL to come may be more accessible to the intended audience. But that may happen on its own since the older equipment will be self-retired while we wait.

[LlewLlwyd]

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IvanBenjammin wrote:

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LlewLlwyd wrote:

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

This is no more a PR disaster for LL than for other gaming companies that used the service.

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THAT

is like saying that World War II was no more of a disaster for Germany than for Italy and Japan.

***And nowadays I reckon it's WOW and Minecraft that are competing for the majority of new users; not the minority "I'm a designer, I use iStuff" ones, but the sex, violence and gratuitous idiocy ones***

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I don't understand your analogy, or maybe you don't? You do realise which axis power was nuked, right?

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IS English not your first language, Ivan?

***If it isn't, then you REALLY have something to worry about***

[Vivienne Schell]

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KarenMichelle Lane wrote:

The takeaway might be to make sure that the new vision of SL to come may be more accessible to the intended audience.

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Umm, so you think that the intended audience for the, as you call it, "new vision of SL" (I cannot see any visionary aspects in Altbergs announcements regarding the "new platform" at all). is the same intended audience as Linden Lab has now? Or do you mean the average people using average home equipment (which fails while trying to display SL shadows)? What exactly do you mean by "intended audience and by "vision" in that context?

[Canoro Philipp]

the development of the next virtual world is very advanced by now, they will probably release it next year, during the development time and ideas, they must be developing a way for it to be accesible with phones and tablets, knowing that the popularity of those devices is on the rise, and is still going more popular.

LL seems to be creating this new virtual world because the one we have right now it has too many problems that cant be solved with the old technology that has at its core, in order to make a good product, they have to clean up and make it from scratch, eventually they will get rid of "Second Life" and replace it with something very similar, maybe with a new name, they have to completely reinvent and rethink themselves to leave all the bad reputation behind.

something that they can do to widen the audience of their new platform is to promote it in game streaming services like Sony Playstation Now and Nvidia GRID, that way they can have it accesible in Smart TVs, they could still offer it to PC users, during the time PCs are still popular.

before that happens, they are gonna keep improving SL as much as they can while they complete their new virtual world, SL users are not going away to competitors because nobody offers what SL does, SL is the best of what it does, nobody is even close to offer such flexibility, such freedom, so much potential as SL does, World of Warcraft is limited of what you can do, IMVU has movement restrictions, Sony wanted to make a virtual world and failed in a few months, Second Life is still here after 10 years, and thats because there is nothing better at what it does than SL.

[Vivienne Schell]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Finally what competition are you referring to?  SL has none to date.

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Eh, I can think of a million less expensive, less troublesome and more enjoyable methods to kill some time. And obviously about 99,99999999 percent of the world population is of the same opinion. No competition, eh?

[Derek Torvalar]

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Canoro Philipp wrote:

the development of the next virtual world is very advanced by now, they will probably release it next year, during the development time and ideas, they must be developing a way for it to be

accesible with phones and tablets

, knowing that the popularity of those devices is on the rise, and is still going more popular.

LL seems to be creating this new virtual world because the one we have right now it has too many problems that cant be solved with the old technology that has at its core, in order to make a good product, they have to clean up and make it from scratch, eventually they will get rid of "Second Life" and replace it with something very similar, maybe with a new name, they have to completely reinvent and rethink themselves to leave all the bad reputation behind.

something that they can do to widen the audience of their new platform is to promote it in game streaming services like Sony Playstation Now and Nvidia GRID, that way they can have it accesible in Smart TVs, they could still offer it to PC users, during the time PCs are still popular.

before that happens, they are gonna keep improving SL as much as they can while they complete their new virtual world, SL users are not going away to competitors because nobody offers what SL does, SL is the best of what it does, nobody is even close to offer such flexibility, such freedom, so much potential as SL does, World of Warcraft is limited of what you can do, IMVU has movement restrictions, Sony wanted to make a virtual world and failed in a few months, Second Life is still here after 10 years, and thats because there is nothing better at what it does than SL.

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http://www.theverge.com/2015/3/3/8134417/hands-on-with-the-galaxy-s6-version-of-the-gear-vr

 

Noticed this the other day. It isn't bad enough people walking around with their heads buried in their phones crashing into everyone and thing, now they will have the added encumberance of wearing the headset as well.

[Vivienne Schell]

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Canoro Philipp wrote:

the development of the next virtual world is very advanced by now..

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Oh, is it? Who told you that? Judging by  Altberg interviews and LL announcements  it´s pretty clear what the people behind all this do NOT want (another Second Life), but what they want and actually have right now seems to be HUGE ?

Ah yes, I forgot. Of course they want these imaginary millions of fresh customers who never heard of the notorious Linden Lab mismanagement. Too bad for them that there is the internet.

[Canoro Philipp]

if headsets come to the market in a good way as replacements for tablets and phones, they will not interrupt the phisycal world suroundings, it will enchance it.

the problem today with screen and devices that we carry in our hands is that it make us stop paying attention to our surroundings and make us get distracted by looking at a little screen for all the informartion we need (maps, information, communication), headsets cant function the same way as phones would, they cant be blocking our eyes blinding us to the physical world, they have to somehow bring what we want to see as part of the physical world, maybe the next virtual world will blend with the physical, using virtual reality headsets to create 3D objects in thin air with certain benefits, Microsoft Hololens does that, the next "Second Life" would have to be something similar.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Vivienne Schell wrote:

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Finally what competition are you referring to?  SL has none to date.

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Eh, I can think of a million less expensive, less troublesome and more enjoyable methods to kill some time. And obviously about 99,99999999 percent of the world population is of the same opinion. No competition, eh?

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That's true if all you are doing is killing time.  If so, why are you here instead of there since it is so enjoyable? 

There are a lot of people here not 'killing time' but who are creating art and content, running businesses, taking classes, participating in support groups, to name just a few of the activities.  Socializing with friends is another reason, unless you think spending times with friends is "Killing Time".

There are also a lot of people in SL that don't play games and have no interest in it. 

Competition for SL would be another virtual world that offers the freedoms that SL does.

[Canoro Philipp]

your comparison of what people prefer instead of SL as a form of competition is very wide, for every form of entertainment there are infinite other forms of entertainment that people would prefer, if we narrow it down to a category, lets say, videogames, we could see some form of competition between players that like tetris to players that like battlefield, the users of one style of game will not change to the other because one cant offer what the other can, competition would be if one has the posibility to attract the same type of people from one type of game to the other.

Second Life users are still here after 10 years, why if it has problems? because there is no other platform in existence capable of attracting SL users by offering a better form of doing what they found in SL attractive.

after working for a while implementing ideas and implementing experience of what made SL as it is, and working with new technology to express those ideas, the new virtual world must be very advanced by now, they are working in a new virtual world, they may not want another SL with its problems, reputation, that would be like carrying the old problems with them, they want to make a fresh start with everything that made SL as beloved as it is despite its problems.

[Vivienne Schell]

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Canoro Philipp wrote:

Second Life is still here after 10 years, and thats because there is nothing better at what it does than SL.

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That´s not the result Linden Lab genius, but only and only the result of what Second Life users (still) beat out of this piece of bits and bytes.

[Canoro Philipp]

Linden Lab gave us the freedom, we provided the creativity.

maybe some are here for the creativity, to create or admire the creations of others, maybe some are here for the freedom, to create anything and do anything they want.

lets see if another platfom provides with more freedom to express our creativity.

[LlewLlwyd]

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Canoro Philipp wrote:

 

lets see if another platfom provides with more freedom to express our creativity.

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DIGITAL WORLD is what SL2 is called on the video that has been deliberately leaked by the LL "Marketing" department, which suggests that  it will provide the creativity to build things suitable only for children.

***No, I am NOT going to tell you where to find it, other than suggesting you try looking on an LL shill's blog***

[Vivienne Schell]

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Competition for SL would be another virtual world that offers the freedoms that SL does.

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Well, we have OSgrid, InWorldz and the like, which offer the same "freedoms" as SL does. Even in a technical sense. They even have sex and all this.

Face it, the major reasons for Seconde Life survival are.

1. Inventory: Someone who aquired or built or paid for and collected some beloved stuff over a certain period of time will not simply jump off for another place, even if the "other" place would offer the same "freedom".

2. Someone who learned the hard core complicated handling of a totally borked application will not simply jump off for another place even if the "other" place would offer a much better designed interface. Not without the inventory.

3. Someone who anticipates Second Life bugs, crashes, griefing overpricing whatever else SL disasters as being normal part of the experience would be totally bored in a seamlessly flowing environment where everything would work as expected and promised. Even if the inventory would be transferable.

4. Sex, communities, distant virtual friends and relationships and all the rest. But even this requires at least a hugger attachment. Inventory.

"Freedom" is relative and does not mean anything in this context. Inventory is THE essential survival kit for Second life.

[Vivienne Schell]

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LlewLlwyd wrote:

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Canoro Philipp wrote:

 

lets see if another platfom provides with more freedom to express our creativity.

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DIGITAL WORLD

is what SL2 is called on the video that has been deliberately leaked by the LL "Marketing" department, which suggests that  it will provide the creativity to build things suitable only for children.

***No, I am NOT going to tell you where to find it, other than suggesting you try looking on an LL shill's blog***

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Tell me why I am not surprised.

:smileyvery-happy:

[Vivienne Schell]

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Canoro Philipp wrote:

they want to make a fresh start with everything that made SL as beloved as it is despite its problems.

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That´s true, and what causes the most trouble in Second Life? People! Unfortunately they skip what truly makes SL as beloved as it is: Inventory.

So logic tells me that they want a "Not Second LIfe" thingy without people.

 

[Dresden Ceriano]

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LlewLlwyd wrote:

sex, violence and gratuitous idiocy

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Yep... that about describes my entire existence.

...Dres

[Caitlin Tobias]

Seriously, why the fuss over the take over of a small company's patents and the assumption this would affect LL or SL?

Slgo on OnLive was nice (and perhaps a SLifesaver)  for people on old machines and the occasional user on a tablet or iPad, but surely this discontinuation of a 3rd party service will not affect SL or LL.
Sony purchased the patents of OnLive, that is all, and yeah it means discarding a service/product as SLGo, which is  collateral damage in a takeover and no big deal. Not for Sony and not for LL.

Yes, I feel sorry for people losing their job in rl due to this, I really do. But it is how it goes.

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

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Vivienne Schell wrote:

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Amethyst Jetaime wrote:

Competition for SL would be another virtual world that offers the freedoms that SL does.

---

Well, we have OSgrid, InWorldz and the like, which offer the same "freedoms" as SL does. Even in a technical sense. They even have sex and all this.

Face it, the major reasons for Seconde Life survival are.

1. Inventory: Someone who aquired or built or paid for and collected some beloved stuff over a certain period of time will not simply jump off for another place, even if the "other" place would offer the same "freedom".

2. Someone who learned the hard core complicated handling of a totally borked application will not simply jump off for another place even if the "other" place would offer a much better designed interface. Not without the inventory.

3. Someone who anticipates Second Life bugs, crashes, griefing overpricing whatever else SL disasters as being normal part of the experience would be totally bored in a seamlessly flowing environment where everything would work as expected and promised. Even if the inventory would be transferable.

4. Sex, communities, distant virtual friends and relationships and all the rest. But even this requires at least a hugger attachment. Inventory.

"Freedom" is relative and does not mean anything in this context. Inventory is THE essential survival kit for Second life.

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OSgrid, InWorldz and the like are no competition for SL.  They have small populations, little content compared to SL and are behind in their tech. 

As for inventory, pfft.  If another virtual world came along that was truly superior to SL I'd go and so would a lot of others.  My inventory is just things many of which I don't use anymore and I'm not particularly attached to it.  BTW, you can't take your inventory with you to the open sim grids you named. So that eliminates them if inventory were so important to someone.

I don't buy your argument stated in 2 and 3 either.  Who wouldn't go if it offered all that SL offers plus it was easy to learn and ran smoothly all the time?

As far as friends etc., If I decided to move ot another virtual world I would still keep my SL account to visit those friends that didn't move, assuming any are left in SL.  My guess is that my friends would move too if the competitor were truly better.