Server Side Baking Doesn't Work. Period.

[Theresa Tennyson]

---

Verena Vuckovic wrote:

"Some modems/routers choke on this many connections."

Well...I'm running the BT Home Hub 5, which is designed for super-fast broadband and only came out a few months ago. So I'm not exactly running some archaic old router.

New and fast mean nothing here. You can buy the newest, fastest motorcycle but that doesn't mean it can pull a big trailer. That's a home router, and besides BT isn't known for providing the world's best hardware - apparently some of their older ones had a lot of problems with games, etc, and the reviews on your router are mostly impressed by how inexpensive it is.

What's more, 'change appearance' and save

does

sometimes fix the issue, though often it doesn't, which alone suggests it is not a problem at my end or it would be consistent.

What does consistency mean in this context? If the problem was on the Lab end, why wouldn't it be just as consistent? You can only "save" an outfit if you make a change, which means you do something that will require the servers to re-send the bake. Sometimes you're pulling a good copy of the new bake, sometimes it fails. That's exactly what I'd expect to see in a connection issue.

My definition of a problem NOT being at my end is if my system meets the minimum spec ( which it well exceeds ) and I've been given no information by the service provider that anything else within the normal scope of things

would

cause a problem. If, for example, SL is running some procedure that the providers KNOW will cause prooblems on a lot of PCs ( such as the HTTP stuff ) yet fail to give any warning or notice of this....then the problem is clearly at the provider end for not telling people about it.

Are you using it wirelessly or not? You haven't denied running wireless, which is specifically not recommended.

---

 

[Darien Caldwell]

There's nothing more amusing than opening your daily digest to see two dueling threads:

Server Side Baking Doesn't work: Period.

Server Side Baking Works: Period.

 So I have to put a blanket statement in both.  :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:

 

For most people it works. I'm sure for some, it doesn't. But guess what is more likely to solve the problem if it doesn't work for you:

A) complaining about it in a forum.

B) actively working to modify your software, network, or hardware to solve whatever issue  you have.

 

The answer is B.  However, I know, A is a whole lot easier.

[Darien Caldwell]

There's nothing more amusing than opening your daily digest to see two dueling threads:

Server Side Baking Doesn't work: Period.

Server Side Baking Works: Period.

 So I have to put a blanket statement in both.  :matte-motes-big-grin-wink:

 

For most people it works. I'm sure for some, it doesn't. But guess what is more likely to solve the problem if it doesn't work for you:

A) complaining about it in a forum.

B) actively working to modify your software, network, or hardware to solve whatever issue  you have.

 

The answer is B.  However, I know, A is a whole lot easier.

 

(and I guess i have to put something unique or it won't let me post again.)

[Perrie Juran]

---

Verena Vuckovic wrote:

"There may or may not be a solution for your problem but I can't find a single post by you saying "Help."

It's quite clear that people who's entire approach is ' It can't possibly be anything wrong with SL....it must be your system' are incapable of even understanding the concept of help....let alone providing it.

I don't want your patronising and condescending  'help'....I want a probem with SL to be fixed.

---

I'd hate to be your Doctor.

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

Verena Vuckovic wrote:

If, for example, SL is running some procedure that the providers KNOW will cause prooblems on a lot of PCs ( such as the HTTP stuff ) yet fail to give any warning or notice of this....then the problem is clearly at the provider end for not telling people about it.

---

This is a problem that will never be fixed, no matter how loud you whine and complain about it.  LL's bad customer service and deplorable attitude toward communication with their own users is well known and has been complained about, by many people, for quite some time, with no discernible change (except for maybe just getting even worse).

Only those of us who pay close attention, so that we can offer our fellow users help when they need/ask for it, are going to know what direction in which to point them in order to find the information which might help their situation.  It's not that those who are in a position to help are any smarter or more knowledgeable about computers, it's that they're sometimes more knowledgeable about the problems that can occur with SL, why they are occurring and how to stop them from doing so.  This requires a bit of troubleshooting, which usually means that they must first eliminate the obvious.

If a person is not willing to take the initial suggested steps required to troubleshoot their situation and instead, act as if the person merely suggesting a cause is somehow being condescending, they will never get their problem solved. At which point, they can then continue ranting about how horrible LL and their fellow users (who are really only trying to help) are, instead of finding a solution and happily going about their second lives.

If all you want to do is rant and rave, catch attitude with people and get all bent out of shape when they throw attitude back at you, please continue on your present course.  Meanwhile, get use to bake fail.

...Dres

[Verena Vuckovic]

"You haven't denied running wireless"

 

I also haven't denied being a purple-green 15 tentacled blob from Beta Reticuli.

[Verena Vuckovic]

"B) actively working to modify your software, network, or hardware to solve whatever issue  you have.

 

What would you like me to 'modify' on a completely fresh Windows install that only has SL running on it ?

And all this HTTP being sent 40 times nonsense....whose 'fault' is that ? Do I get an option in it ?

Am I to believe that a system that can download Bioshock Infinite ( 15gb ) off Steam in 15 minutes can't handle a few lousy textures ??

[Verena Vuckovic]

Let me rephrase that.....are you telling me that a system that can download all of Bioshock's 15gb in 15 minutes can't handle downloading a freakin 15kb skirt properly ???

[Theresa Tennyson]

---

Verena Vuckovic wrote:

"B) actively working to modify your software, network, or hardware to solve whatever issue  you have.

 

What would you like me to 'modify' on a completely fresh Windows install that only has SL running on it ?

And all this HTTP being sent 40 times nonsense....whose 'fault' is that ? Do I get an option in it ?

Am I to believe that a system that can download Bioshock Infinite ( 15gb ) off Steam in 15 minutes can't handle a few lousy textures .

---

When you downloaded Bioshock Infinite you downloaded exactly ONE file. When you arrive in a region in Second Life you load dozens at a time, simultaneously. And you DO have an option: turn off HTTP textures. If you'd bother to tell us what viewer you use we could even tell you where to find the option. That will clear up a lot of connections. You can also go to the debug settings and turn MaxMeshConcurrentRequests down to 16.

[Verena Vuckovic]

I already have HTTP set to a maximum number of 10 simultaneous connections....so all this 40 connections stuff is irrelevant.

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

---

Verena Vuckovic wrote:

"B) actively working to modify your software, network, or hardware to solve whatever issue  you have.

 

What would you like me to 'modify' on a completely fresh Windows install that only has SL running on it ?

And all this HTTP being sent 40 times nonsense....whose 'fault' is that ? Do I get an option in it ?

Am I to believe that a system that can download Bioshock Infinite ( 15gb ) off Steam in 15 minutes can't handle a few lousy textures ??

---

The obvious answer is right before your very eyes.

If your system is failing to either request, receive, or process the information guess where the problem is.

[Verena Vuckovic]

"If your system is failing to either request, receive, or process the information guess where the problem is."

 

I know exactly where the problem lies when SL is the ONLY application for which that occurs.

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

Verena Vuckovic wrote:

"If your system is failing to either request, receive, or process the information guess where the problem is."

 

I know exactly where the problem lies when SL is the ONLY application for which that occurs.

---

If SL is causing you such distress, you might want to consider discontinuing it's use altogether.

...Dres

[bigmoe Whitfield]

you biting and yelling at people and seem to be refusing that THIS could be your system or connection and it just has to be SL. 

let these people help, listen to what they have to say and stop arguing with them.   "my system is fine and perfect and nothing could ever be the matter with it" 

I work tier 1 support AKA end user support for a real company that handles end users and there computer problems.   9 times out of time,  it's the users system or connection or printer or monitor that's cuasing issues.  

[Griffin Ceawlin]

---

Verena Vuckovic wrote:

"

My definition of a problem NOT being at my end is if my system meets the minimum spec ( which it well exceeds ) and I've been given no information by the service provider that anything else within the normal scope of things

would

cause a problem.

---

* Second Life is not compatible with dial-up internet, satellite internet, and some wireless internet services.

https://secondlife.com/my/support/system-requirements/index.php

Important: Second Life allows but does not support wireless connections. Always use a hardwired connection if possible.

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/How-to-improve-Viewer-performance/ta-p/1316923#Section_.1.1

Second Life is not compatible with dial-up internet, satellite internet, or some wireless internet services. Occasionally these types of connection may work with Second LIfe, but Linden Lab is unable to support them or to address issues related to their use. For the best Second Life experience, always use a hard-wired DSL or cable connection.

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/English-Knowledge-Base/Wifi-and-satellite-connections/ta-p/1296823

There. You've been given the information by the service provider.

---

Verena Vuckovic wrote:

"

You haven't denied running wireless

"

 I also haven't denied being a purple-green 15 tentacled blob from Beta Reticuli..

---

Well, are you or aren't you?

P.S. I try to reserve my condescending attitude for people who deserve it. You win.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Verena Vuckovic wrote:

"If your system is failing to either request, receive, or process the information guess where the problem is."

 

I know exactly where the problem lies when SL is the ONLY application for which that occurs.

---

Well the only other thing I can conclude is that god does not want you to use SL. 

Perhaps you should find something else to do before you piss her off.

Seriously, for someone who claims to have so much computer literacy to display so little good sense has at this point become laughable.

Go spend some time perusing the help boards at World of Warcraft or any other MMPORG or perhaps the games you are claiming work perfectly fine and you will find dozens if not hundreds of people with 'perfectly good systems' for whom they do not work.  It is a very rare thing that a solution can not be found and it usually comes down to a simple setting on their 'perfectly good system' that they missed or ignored.

[Innula Zenovka]

---

Verena Vuckovic wrote:

"If your system is failing to either request, receive, or process the information guess where the problem is."

 

I know exactly where the problem lies when SL is the ONLY application for which that occurs.

---

But how is it, do you think, that most people, including people like me with systems and cable connections that aren't anything like as good as yours, don't seem to have to problems with SL that you describe? 

We're both connecting to SL.   I don't know what viewer you're using, but I don't see these problems with the Official Viewer, Catznip or Firestorm, so assuming you're using one of those, we're using the same viewer.   The only variables left seem to me to be your connection or something in your set up.

 

[Coventina Dalgleish]

I have observed this topic for several days and as usual the members offer little help and the attitude seems to be contrary to what one might expect from a group with some knowledge of how to properly configure the system to perform well.

The problem may not exist for you but it does exist for others. Some systems may be better designed to handle the current server side baking but many are not.

 

I have been in this game for a bit of time on everyday and see this problem regularly even after taking all of the suggestions made by the group. Textures used to have problems before the current method of creating them but there was a simple way to correct the problem with re-baking, which is non functional now.

Some of the individuals I associate with do have this problem some do not most have no clue that the forum even exists and therefore this sample of user's is a poor representation of the actual experience

There seem to be benefits to the new method of displaying textures but it also appears to have  a fair amount of problems for many users you who have no problem have a greater enjoyment from this enterprise than we who have to put up with the failures

[Innula Zenovka]

---

Coventina Dalgleish wrote:

I have observed this topic for several days and as usual the members offer little help and the attitude seems to be contrary to what one might expect from a group with some knowledge of how to properly configure the system to perform well.

The problem may not exist for you but it does exist for others. Some systems may be better designed to handle the current server side baking but many are not.

---

But the problem is, to my mind, that that OP won't entertain the suggestion that the problem might be anything to do with how her system is configured.    She seems adamant that it's a problem at LL's end and they need to fix it, not her.

I don't doubt for one minute she's having the problems she describes.   I do doubt, though, her apparent belief that there's nothing she can do to fix them.

If she would share with us details of what her system is like and how she's connecting to SL, then someone might be able to help her.    My immediate suspicion when someone's having problems like this is that they're on a wireless connection, and I notice she's not actually told us what sort of connection she's using (other than a very fast one) despite being asked several times.

 

 

[Perrie Juran]

---

Coventina Dalgleish wrote:

I have observed this topic for several days and as usual the members offer little help and the attitude seems to be contrary to what one might expect from a group with some knowledge of how to properly configure the system to perform well.

The problem may not exist for you but it does exist for others. Some systems may be better designed to handle the current server side baking but many are not.

 

---

I don't see how you can draw this conclusion from reading this thread.

I know that you read this Forum enough that you see people getting help all the time. But consider Verena's response to me:

"There may or may not be a solution for your problem but I can't find a single post by you saying "Help."

It's quite clear that people who's entire approach is ' It can't possibly be anything wrong with SL....it must be your system' are incapable of even understanding the concept of help....let alone providing it.

I don't want your patronising and condescending  'help'....I want a probem with SL to be fixed."

How can anyone possibly help Verena when that is her attitude.  Quite frankly she is the one who has been condescending, not me. 

No one has said that there are not systems that can't run SL.  That is kind of a no brainer.  But as far as systems that should run SL to just say "there is nothing wrong with my system" is fruitless. 

I really wish now I had saved a screen shot but just this past week I received an error message on another forum I frequent.  Rather than the normal 404 error the message read,

"While normally you would see a 404 error here if you are getting this message it could be you are using "named my ISP" with "the model number of my modem."  There is a known bug with your modem.  Please contact your ISP for a firmware update."

I contacted my ISP, got the update and some problems that had been driving me batty with web pages not loading went away. 

The problem was NOT the Web sites.   There was a bug in my system that needed fixed. 

If I had acted like Verana has been and said, "no there can't be anything wrong on my end.....it has to be the Web sites problem, I'd still be having problems.

People here have offered to try and help her.  Instead she has condescended to us and at this point in time I wouldn't blame any one if they chose not to help her.  I sure as heck won't try now.  Let her go play Space Asteroids.

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

Coventina Dalgleish wrote:

I have observed this topic for several days and as usual the members offer little help and the attitude seems to be contrary to what one might expect from a group with some knowledge of how to properly configure the system to perform well.

---

It was pretty obvious from the very start that Verena wasn't the least bit interested in getting any help from anyone.  As it seems, her only objective was to whine and complain about SSA and LL, then accuse those who did try to offer what little help they could (given her refusal to supply any further information) of being somehow condescending.

 

---

Coventina Dalgleish wrote:

The problem may not exist for you but it does exist for others. Some systems may be better designed to handle the current server side baking but many are not.

---

No one said that it doesn't exist... in fact, it probably happens to everyone from time to time, no matter how good their system is.  The point is that there are steps that can be taken to lessen the amount of times that it happens, if you know what to do for your particular situation.

 

---

Coventina Dalgleish wrote:

I have been in this game for a bit of time on everyday and see this problem regularly even after taking all of the suggestions made by the group. Textures used to have problems before the current method of creating them but there was a simple way to correct the problem with re-baking, which is non functional now.

---

Textures use to have many more problems before SSA.  Though rebaking no longer works, there is still a simple solution for when problems do occur... it's called texture refresh and it actually works better and more quickly than rebaking ever did.  Another nice thing about it is that when our friends' textures are blurry to us but not to them, we can now perform a texture refresh on them ourselves, which is much more preferable than having to ask them to rebake themselves.

 

---

Coventina Dalgleish wrote:

Some of the individuals I associate with do have this problem some do not most have no clue that the forum even exists and therefore this sample of user's is a poor representation of the actual experience

---

This forum has always been a poor representation of user's actual inworld experience... simply because rarely does anyone come here to say how swimmingly their inworld experience is going.  On the contrary, it's usually people that are having issues with something that show up here and either ask for help or whine and complain, as did the OP.

The very fact that post-implementation of SSA, we weren't inundated with people doing so, goes a long way toward convincing me that it's caused much less problems for people than what you or the OP are trying to indicate.  Not to mention the fact that most of people that did come here to complain about it, were complaining about things that actually had nothing whatsoever to do with SSA.

 

---

Coventina Dalgleish wrote:

There seem to be benefits to the new method of displaying textures but it also appears to have  a fair amount of problems for many users you who have no problem have a greater enjoyment from this enterprise than we who have to put up with the failures

---

I've said this before and it's still my perception that those who think SSA is so very problematic, are conveniently forgetting the amount of issues they had prior to its release.

...Dres

Edited for spelling and clarity and stuff... give me a break, I just woke up.

[Amethyst Jetaime]

---

Coventina Dalgleish wrote:

I have observed this topic for several days and as usual the members offer little help and the attitude seems to be contrary to what one might expect from a group with some knowledge of how to properly configure the system to perform well.

The problem may not exist for you but it does exist for others. Some systems may be better designed to handle the current server side baking but many are not.

 

I have been in this game for a bit of time on everyday and see this problem regularly even after taking all of the suggestions made by the group. Textures used to have problems before the current method of creating them but there was a simple way to correct the problem with re-baking, which is non functional now.

Some of the individuals I associate with do have this problem some do not most have no clue that the forum even exists and therefore this sample of user's is a poor representation of the actual experience

There seem to be benefits to the new method of displaying textures but it also appears to have  a fair amount of problems for many users you who have no problem have a greater enjoyment from this enterprise than we who have to put up with the failures

---

Your logic completely escapes me.

I too have observed this thread for a while now and can say categorically that no one can offer even a little help unless the OP posts all the specs requested of her. She has refused and is the one being condescending and throwing out attitude here first. No one here is a mind reader or a magician.   How can anyone help if they don't have the basic information needed to offer help?

No one has denied the problem may exist or that it may exist for a lot of people.  But these same people could easily have various issues on their end that could be fixed.  Until the OP's specs are posted and everything is confirmed that it is as it should be on her end, it cannot be said it that it is not a problem on her end.  That goes for anyone having issues.  You yourself admit that "Some systems may be better designed to handle the current server side baking but many are not."  Also, if the problem were only on the SL end, no one would be problem free everyone would be having issues, and clearly they are not as you yourself admit.

She brags a lot about what a great system and setup she has  but personally since she refuses to post any specifics requested, and answers requests for the info with non answers, then I have to assume that she can't back up her claims or she doesn't want to fix the problem only rant about it.

 

[Ayesha Askham]

Just adding my thoughts, having followed this contentious thread since its inception.  There is a problem with SSA.  This is a known issue.  There were MANY problems with client-side baking as it used to be done.  Iknow, I suffered them from time to time like most people.

The issue now is HTTP textures.  It seems that despite people having very high-spec PCs with good graphics, and apparently good hard-wired internet connections, still they have baking issues.  The culprit appears (and I say appears since I do not think there is yet any categoric proof of it) to be how these HTTP textures are handled by our modems/routers.  Some brands of hardware seem far more able to handle these than others.  Turning off HTTP textures for me resulted in excruciatingly slow texture download, it doesn't for many. 

Just what the answer is I do not know but I very much doubt that Linden Lab are either a) unaware of the issue or b) doing nothing.  Experience with The Lab suggests that silence on a topic does not indicate inaction...just bad communication, something at which Linden Lab excel.  Just as the "Interest List" problems were created as Linden Lab sought a solution for another; the HTTP texture/ SSA problem will be ameliorated and perhaps cured, but it will take time and test many folks' patience.

[Perrie Juran]

---

Ayesha Askham wrote:

Just adding my thoughts, having followed this contentious thread since its inception.  There is a problem with SSA.  This is a known issue.  There were MANY problems with client-side baking as it used to be done.  Iknow, I suffered them from time to time like most people.

The issue now is HTTP textures.  It seems that despite people having very high-spec PCs with good graphics, and apparently good hard-wired internet connections, still they have baking issues.  The culprit appears (and I say appears since I do not think there is yet any categoric proof of it) to be how these HTTP textures are handled by our modems/routers.  Some brands of hardware seem far more able to handle these than others.  Turning off HTTP textures for me resulted in excruciatingly slow texture download, it doesn't for many. 

Just what the answer is I do not know but I very much doubt that Linden Lab are either a) unaware of the issue or b) doing nothing.  Experience with The Lab suggests that silence on a topic does not indicate inaction...just bad communication, something at which Linden Lab excel.  Just as the "Interest List" problems were created as Linden Lab sought a solution for another; the HTTP texture/ SSA problem will be ameliorated and perhaps cured, but it will take time and test many folks' patience.

---

I know from other comments in other threads that LL is aware of Modem problems. 

Most ISP provided Modems are made by the 'lowest bidder.'   

Then there are times when some of the ISP's do unpredicatable things with the Modems.

This thread is a great example of both what an ISP did and LL working to resolve the issue.

http://community.secondlife.com/t5/Second-Life-Server/SSB-via-T-Mobile-cellphone/m-p/2086361/highlight/true#M11103

[Dresden Ceriano]

---

Ayesha Askham wrote:

Just adding my thoughts, having followed this contentious thread since its inception.  There is a problem with SSA.  This is a known issue.  There were MANY problems with client-side baking as it used to be done.  Iknow, I suffered them from time to time like most people.

The issue now is HTTP textures.  It seems that despite people having very high-spec PCs with good graphics, and apparently good hard-wired internet connections, still they have baking issues.  The culprit appears (and I say appears since I do not think there is yet any categoric proof of it) to be how these HTTP textures are handled by our modems/routers.  Some brands of hardware seem far more able to handle these than others.  Turning off HTTP textures for me resulted in excruciatingly slow texture download, it doesn't for many. 

Just what the answer is I do not know but I very much doubt that Linden Lab are either a) unaware of the issue or b) doing nothing.  Experience with The Lab suggests that silence on a topic does not indicate inaction...just bad communication, something at which Linden Lab excel.  Just as the "Interest List" problems were created as Linden Lab sought a solution for another; the HTTP texture/ SSA problem will be ameliorated and perhaps cured, but it will take time and test many folks' patience.

---

You're pretty much spot on... unfortunately, the OP was not the least bit interested in anyone's advice, which may very well have made a substantial difference in her SL experience.  Her loss.

...Dres