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pixysticks

Truly Mobile Second Life -> The Geekgasm

27 posts in this topic

So I saw a few people asking around the forums about a mobile platform capable of playing Second Life.  For the most part, while people have confirmed that it's possible to do, many have said devices would not run Second Life up to par and that the general experience would be a poor one.


I cringe when I see statements like that, as many of the newer systems today are completely overkill hardware wise for a game that's a decade old.  Even an Andriod cell phone can log into Second Life, albiet very poorly, but it's possible.

Well today I'd like to smash some of those accusations. :)

(EDIT: Just wanted to note this thread is not a personal attack on anybody who said SL from a mobile device is junk, before this tablet trying to SL from a netbook/tablet/phone was a poor experience but it doesn't need to be anymore.)

I bought a Microsoft Surface Pro tablet, which Microsoft has tried very hard to bridge the gap between laptops and mobile tablet devices.  In my opinion, for the first device of it's kind ever made, they have done well.

The specs:

3rd Gen i5 CPU with Intel integrated HD 4000 graphics

4GB DDR3 RAM

128GB SSD HD

Amazingly enough, the tablet runs Second Life nearly as good as my Dell Studio XPS 8100 Desktop which has better specs then the Microsoft Surface Pro.

I use both a bluetooth keyboard and mouse for my Surface Pro, turning the tablet into a full blown laptop.  Just standing around my somewhat empty skybox I averaged 70fps.  When I went to the ground level of my sim, which is fully decorated sim-wide, I averaged 25fps.  These are completely respectible numbers for Second Life.

The Surface Pro has a full installation of Windows 8 inside it, not a dumbed down version like the Surface RT versions, meaning you can run any application that works in Windows 7 including Microsoft Office, Gimp/Photoshop, Blender, etc.

Content creators who want to create on the fly and need a mobile way to access Second Life, but need the portability of a ultrabook have waited a long time for a device like the Surface Pro, and all I can say is this little tablet has exceeded all my expectations for it, including playing newer higher end games such as Neverwinter, Guild Wars 2, and even the new SimCity.

Below are two completely unedited and unaltered screenshots of my using the newest version of Firestorm to log into the grid.  One includes having the graphics tab of preferences open to show all the exact settings I'm running the viewer on with the Statistics window also open to see the framerates.

secondlife_on_surface_pro.jpg

And the second one...

secondlife_on_surface_pro2.jpg

 

So now you're probably kinda curious what the Surface Pro looks like.  Well, as I mentioned earlier, it's a tablet so it looks something akin to an iPad.

Surface Pro Press 2-580-90.jpg

 

P.S. Sorry for crappy screenshots, the resolution and coloring on my Surface Pro looks a lot better. :)  I've never been able to take pretty screenshots out of SL on any computer I've ever owned. :(

 

The Surface Pro did require a little bit of modifying to make work with Second Life, as the newest drivers for the Surface from Microsoft broke many OpenGL applications, however, if you're comfortable with installing drivers then you can obtain the official drivers from Intel and the Second Life viewer loads up without a hitch.

I totally had a nerdgasm when I bought this and unboxed it, I hope you guys found this info useful. :)

(EDIT: You can make this tablet mobile by using your Smartphone as a WiFi hotspot, provided your Smartphone supports such a feature.)

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I said the Pro would do the job back when it was announced, and nobody believed me. It's not the same experience you'd get on a gaming rig, but it certainly does do the job.

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Yeah, I mean, before buying it I did a lot of research about it.  I really did not have high expectations for it, I figured maybe 5-10fps in SL on lower end settings.  I didn't buy it specifically for gaming, so being able to SL from it is just an added perk. :)

So being able to get the frame rates out of it that I am getting on medium level graphic settings is just... awesome sauce all the way around lol.

Many people out there want to bang on the Surface Pro, it's opponents are comparing it to desktops and laptops which isn't fair at all.  It's a tablet with laptop hardware, which does not make it a laptop, it's still a tablet and in my opinion it's only fair to compare it to other tablets on the market.  That means it totally kills the iPad, all the way around.

I did make a comment in another thread somebody else had started about the Surface Pro when people started in on the integrated graphics of the tablet, and I mentioned....

There is a rival device to the Surface Pro, developed by the gaming company Razer.  If there were an individual out there wanting a tablet that has even more power then the Surface Pro, the Razer Edge Pro has the following specs:

Intel i7 CPU

8GB DDR3 RAM

2GB DISCRETE VIDEO

256 SSD HD

I did look at the Razer Edge Pro, and came very close to buying that model.  I didn't purchase it for a few reasons, many of the user reviews I read about it were unhappy comments by owners of the device, whereas nearly everybody who owned a Surface Pro said they loved it.  The Edge Pro is having driver compatibility issues with Windows 8 and for some people even experiencing a Win8 equivalence of a BSOD.

I'm sure after a few more weeks/months the driver compatibility issues of the Edge Pro will be worked out and that little tablet will be a total beast.  It's also several hundred dollars more then the Surface Pro.


What I find to be really cool about the Surface Pro and Edge Pro is the HDMI out (comes native on Surface Pro, accessory for Edge Pro), so you can seriously use these tablets to completely replace your desktop system.  Just keep your monitor and when you want to use it as a desktop plug it in via HDMI.  Work, be productive, even game, and then when the time comes for more work or travel which you can't do at home, simply grab the tablet unplug the HDMI and off you go!  Or heck, who needs to use a monitor anymore?  Plug these little guys up to your TV!  :)


P.S. The Edge Pro is sold out -everywhere- and backordered for weeks/months.  Also people are complaining that none of the accessories are really out for it yet (such as it's docking station/keypads etc).

(EDIT -> P.P.S -> Dear Phoenix Firestorm, please give me a touch capable viewer :D :D :D lol.  Sell it on the Surface App store, I'd totally buy it!)

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many of the newer systems today are completely overkill hardware wise for a game that's a decade old. 

WRONG! SL might be losely based on game dynamics from a decade ago BUT ...

- SL isn't a game but a virtual world. That's a huge difference. SL has to deal with everchanging content which is fully made by amateurs.

- Contrary to the basic game SL is developing forward. Okay, I gotta admit even your tablet is more powerfullerer than the typical gaming PC from 2003 but even the most powerful hadware of nowadays struggles to keep up with SL's demands. And when I look at your graphics settings in pic 2, well, they are not that impressive. DD 128 meters, no shadows, only static reflections in water ...  pfff.

- Tablets are useless for most SL users for an entirely different reason, a more philosophical one: why use SL on the move anyway? Most of us are sitting at home and spending hours on end in world, we're not riding the bus/metro. And when we do we have better things to do than staring at  a small screen, for example we can look out the window and enjoy the real world. Also most of us need a keyboard and a mouse, things you gotta extra set up for your tablet and with that you're neglecting its most important feature: the mobility. Most people I know in SL are past 40, some of my friends are already in their 70s. We don't live in dorms, we have spacious housing, we have money, we have time. What we don't have is patience with the latest gadgety things.

 

Little protip for better visibility in photos: switch to midday (ctrl+shift+y). Oh, can't do it since you don't have a keyboard? Sorry. :matte-motes-evil-invert:

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Actually there is a touch keyboard.  Pairing the physical bluetooth keyboard and mouse took less then 30 seconds, also, and totally isn't required.  But you're going to hate on the tablet no matter what judging from your response. :)

Not everybody needs to walk around with ultra graphics on.  I certainly don't feel the need to go buy a top of the line gaming system merely to see prettier pixels in Second Life.

Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for other people.  Different strokes for different folks.

And why would a person want to use SL on the move?  Being able to provide adequate customer service if you're a creator is a pretty good reason. :)  Going on a long trip to see family?  Sure beats lugging around a laptop and all it's accessories.

If you don't like it don't buy it, and open that window for some fresh air while you're sitting at your computer spending hours on end in world. :)

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Actually there is a touch keyboard.  Pairing the physical bluetooth keyboard and mouse took less then 30 seconds, also, and totally isn't required. 

Wotz dat? Do I need all that technical stuffz? Touch keyboard? Doesn't give me enough feedback, bad for extended typing. And I don't have a single Bluetooth enabled item, what's that good for?

 

But you're going to hate on the tablet no matter what judging from your response. **Only uploaded images may be used in postings**://secondlife.i.lithium.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" border="0" alt=":smileyhappy:" title="Smiley Happy" />

No. I was even thinking about getting a tablet for quick internet access. But the decided against it since I really don't have a use for it. I don't even carry a cellphone when I leave the house.

 


Not everybody needs to walk around with ultra graphics on.  I certainly don't feel the need to go buy a top of the line gaming system merely to see prettier pixels in Second Life.

You said it yourself: different strokes for different folks. WhenI log into world I wanna get the best of it. No unnecéssary compromises for me.

 


Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for other people.  Different strokes for different folks.

Yesyes. And most folks, if they are hardcore SL users, have absolutely no stroke for tablets.

 


And why would a person want to use SL on the move?  Being able to provide adequate customer service if you're a creator is a pretty good reason. **Only uploaded images may be used in postings**://secondlife.i.lithium.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" border="0" alt=":smileyhappy:" title="Smiley Happy" /> 

Could do that from their cellphone as well.

 

 

Going on a long trip to see family?  Sure beats lugging around a laptop and all it's accessories.

No, it doesn't. Since I only have it stowed somewhere in my luggage  and only unpack it again once I reached my family I prefer my good old and trusted lappy. And guess what, we usually even lug two of those around with us.

 


If you don't like it don't buy it, and open the window for some fresh air while you're sitting at your computer spending hours on end in world. **Only uploaded images may be used in postings**://secondlife.i.lithium.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" border="0" alt=":smileyhappy:" title="Smiley Happy" />

I decided to not like it, so I didn't buy it. Simple as that. And no worries, my windows are almost always open here in sunny Africa, so I get some fresh sea breeze all the time. Wonderful. I think there's a time for everything.  A time for travel and a time for computing. Sorry, I don't mix them up.

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And you've made that very clear.  Thank you for your input about how you like to stay stationary in a thread about mobile Second Life. :)

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Oh yes, my 3rd point may have gotten a bit off-topic. But the rest are still game stoppers when it comes to SL. I don't wanna see your MIcrosoft tablet in about half a year, once you fried the integrated, not dedicated, graphics chip. Game over.

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I think I'll be just fine, just like all the other computers I've ever owned which had an integrated video card that lasted years.  Haters are always going to hate.

I see no need to continue this discussion it's already gone.

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I think I'll be just fine, just like all the other computers I've ever owned which had an integrated video card that lasted years.

Yes, of course you'll be fine. My oldest still functional computer is a lappy from 2006, also with integrated graphics chip. And it's still going strong. I just won't play SL on it since the picture is too crappy, the fps is terribly bad and the fan is rotating on full speed. Apart from that it's still good for a couple more years.

 

Haters are always going to hate.

Aggro much? Else why would you totally ignore anything I said that sooooo won't make me a hater? Don't like reasoning? You must either be very young (say college or high school) or very old and haven't learned a thing. Anyhoo, I see a generation conflict in the making here

 

I see no need to continue this discussion it's already gone.

Fortunately it's not on biased self-important, overly self-assured people like you to decide if a discussion is over. There's a reason why LL decided nobody, not even the OP, can close/delete a thread. They leave that for their automaton/sock puppet mods.

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"I see no need to continue this discussion it's already gone."

Meant I have no desire to continue having a conversation about mobile Second Life with a person who:

  • Does not even carry around a cell phone.
  • Has no tablets and professes not interested in one.
  • Has no idea how to use bluetooth (and further insinuates that pairing bluetooth devices is difficult).
  • Added 0% productive information to this thread (other then to whine about the way I've logged into Second Life because it doesn't match her image of how it should be done).
  • Made snippy and rude insinuating comments.
  • Requires absolute top of the line hardware so she's not "compromising." (Nobody's going to buy a Surface Pro for gaming, those of us who get one will have other reasons for it, though people will buy a Razer Edge Pro for gaming).
  • Seemingly ignores the fact the Razer Edge Pro has a 2GB dedicated video card in it by NVidia, which leads me to believe she couldn't read the entirety of the first two posts I made.
  • Clings to dying hardware options many consumers are no longer interested in.
  • Only posted here to complain, whine, otherwise try to make people believe that this tablet can't run Second Life well, which, it can.
  • Trying to derail the thread, or maybe even troll me, with continual useless banter that nobody is interested in, despite my trying to end the conversation with you since you feel like you needed to interject your opinion about mobile devices that you're completely not interested in.


Not that I wouldn't continue the conversation with any other person who was truly interested in mobile Second Life, I just won't do it with somebody obviously trying to discredit what these tablets can do.

Desktops are dying, sorry if that rubs you the wrong way (not really), but it's just the way it is.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2013/01/22/the-pc-is-dead-long-live-the-pc-intel-exits-motherboard-business/

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/29/tech/gaming-gadgets/are-pcs-dead

http://www.pcworld.com/article/248119/the_desktop_pc_is_dead_long_live_the_desktop.html

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/cracking-open/diy-desktops-are-dead-in-business-and-dying-in-the-home/979

 

I ignore what you say because you have no grounds for any of your accusations against the Surface Pro.  You'd rather lug around two laptops weighing over 6lbs each (avg. weight of a laptop), plus it's accessories, or like you said you'd like to sit down at your computer so you can "look out the window."   That's fine as I said, different strokes for different folks, but don't come in and attack somebody else's thread merely because you like to sit down at a desktop.  The world does not revolve around Mrs Orca Flotta.

Well you can look out your window, at me, walking around on my Surface Pro enjoying the real world and the virtual world at the same time. :)

(EDIT -> I also find it disturbing you've been editing your posts with no notations, saying rather rude things to try to rile me up and then changing it later after I've already posted or just changing it in general to say something other then what it originally did).

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While I agreed that those two tablets mentioned are powerful enough to run SL, I have to get on your case for saying PCs are dying.

 

Tablets will never replace a PC if you're a gamer or a professional user. Anyone that thinks so is a 20 something facebooker that probably doesn't really know how to use a PC to its full potential.

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I'll let the major websites who do marketing analysis tell me whether they're dying or not.  I never said tablets would replace desktops.

(EDIT -> I said you could replace your desktop with one if a person had the desire to do so.)

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http://www.youtube.com/user/SurfaceProGaming?feature=watch

 

The above link is to a person who bought one of the Surface Pros and did a ton of testing on lots of different games.  Unfortunately Second Life isn't one of them. :( Scroll through the videos if you're interested in this tablet to get an accurate idea of what it can handle and what it can't as far as games go.

At that I really have nothing more to say or respond to any comments, people can decide for themselves whether this particular device suits their needs or not.  Take care all! :)

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Oh **bleep**, now I made a quite long post about all the points where you are totally wrong and misguided about me and my intentions. Took abviously too long to take your confused post apart so I was timed out and my message disappeared.

Well, in the end it all boils down to this conflict, as documented in the PBS doccie here.

So, all I wanna ask you is to stay cool and refrain from further personal attacks against me. We're only discussing technical gadgets and their use for SL. Just some weighing of pro and contra. No need to question the integrity of an obviously much older and more seasoned and reasoned and resourceful woman.

Oh, and get your definitions straight: Productive information, snippy, insinuating, gaming, ignorance, dying hardware and purchase decisions, complaining, whining, derailing of threads, trolling, useless banter, interest, discrediting, editing of posts.

You're completely wrong on all those points.

Fact is you started the thread with an attack, a slap in the face of 99% of SL residents. And now you're being aggressive because somebody (me) rained on your parade. Again: I'm happy for you if you found your dream machine and are happy with it. But your way of playing SL isn't the way of the majority, far from.

What's so wrong with sitting down and concentrating on a nicely displayed SL on a big screen, without too much lag. Not everybody is done with their SL business in a matter of 5 minutes, during a bus ride or something. Why should we go out and catch a bus when we have our own cars? And why should I connect to SL while riding that bus? And why can't I just sit in the park and drink a beer instead of playing with my tech gadgets? Being available and online all the time? That's the detrimental sort of multitasking, the one we should avoid at all costs.

Anyway, I wish you much fun with your Razer Pro. Oh,  did you know that Razer is a gaming hardware manufacturer? They obviously noticed that tablets are selling very good these days and are trying to get a cut of the market. About the long term sustainability of a gaming specced tablet we have to decide later.

 

PS: have you seen who posted that video about gaming with the surface pro? A youtuber or group of youtubers going by the name of "MIcrosoft Fanboys". LOL. Some people.

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The majority of SL residents I meet doesn't have a professional or gaming rig, the majority of SL residents I meet doesn't use all bells and whistles. Most people I meet are here to interact, not to enjoy the scenery in the best possible looking way.

I'm not sure if this represents the entire community, but I would think so.

When I started in SL, I had an "at the end of its life PC" which was overheating (to the point where pieces of the motherboard were actually deforming), lagging unbelievably (it could take half a minute for me to receive chat and reply in a busy scene) and didn't allow draw distances or graphics settings anything over the bare minimum. I had the time of my life. My next computer was a mid range one, which allowed me to max out most settings, until shadows were introduced. Busy sims still made me lag, but that didn't spoil the fun really, it allowed me to build and interact and enjoy the world. My current computer will probably allow me to use the ultra settings for a couple of years. SL is smoother and more stable than it ever was for me, but besides these small benefits, I'm not really enjoying SL more than before. I couldn't go back to my previous computer, but that's something else.

I think I'm trying to say that graphics settings don't mean the world to me. I also think that's the case for the vast majority of SL residents. In addition to that, I have never heard LL or any resident advertise something like "join the best looking virtual world there is". It's about freedom of creation but most of all freedom of interaction. If you ask me, SL is a glorified chatroom, with quite some glory.

PC sales are dropping fast. (We might see a temporary rise when XP support stops next year) That doesn't mean there won't be a market for them, since professionals and gamers still need powerful computers. The majority of people however just want to be able to keep in touch with others, watch a video or some photo's or play a simple game every now and then. Apart from work and SL, that's what I use my computer for. Here in the Netherlands, in 2010 94% of people between 12 and 75 had an internet connection. I don't think 94% of that group are gamers, I'd be surprised if that number exceeded 5%. If I didn't need a powerful desktop for work, I'd still use my previous 6 year old computer, it does 99% of the things I need perfectly, the 1% being the most important though, my work. I'd probably buy a tablet for everyday things as well for the simple fact it's quite annoying to have to walk to and turn on a computer just to read some e-mail or look something up on wikipedia.

I wouldn't be alone. Where PC sales are dropping, tablets and smart phones sales are on the rise. Ignoring that would simply be stupid. Look at Microsoft and its CEO who didn't think smartphones would be interesting back in 2007. In a couple of years from undisputed marketleader to number three behind Apple and Google.

You can't simply look at the current userbase, you also need to prepare for the future to make sure you don't end up living in the past.

A bit more on topic, I didn't expect notebook hardware shrinking fast enough (in size but especially power consumption and heat production) to be able to make it into the tablet market. That sure speeds up the catching up in performance compared to desktops. Going by the two mentioned tablets, I'd say SL is very playable on a tablet as we speak, I sure hadn't expected that a year or so ago.

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Jean Horten wrote:

How much did you pay for that tablet , keyboard and mouse?

J.

As much as a decent gaming desktop would cost Jean :) I don't think maximum performance per dollar was the leading factor in the purchase.

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Just looked up some notebooks.

I wonder why someone pays  more than 1000 € for an i5 surface pro with 4 GB of RAM 10 inch display and an Intel HD 4000 gpu, when you can get an I7 powered machine with an nVidia 650 GT, 8 GB of ram , full hd 17 inch display for approx 20% less money?

Fanboyism? A trendy 'Lifestyle over  value for money' attitude?  I really don't understand why people pay so much more money for inferior hardware.

J.

 

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Because it's out of stock? (just kidding, but that's pretty much what you referred to, apart from the 17" display)

I'd say because that thing weighs 6.3 lbs and the tablet in question just 2.0. The notebook has up to 3 hours of battery use, the tablet up to 5. It's just more mobile.

It wouldn't be my choice, but I can certainly understand it.

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Yes, the facts and statistics are on your side, Kwakkelde, but why would ignoring them be stupid? I'm looking for a computer that fits my needs, as minor as they may be in the greater scheme of the worldwide market. I start worrying about the market once there are no parts be developed anymore or available for purchase. Maybe once we're all back on glorified sexy pocket calculators I shall stop my SL hobby and go back to mom 'n' dad computing (checking email, buying stuff off amazon).

As SL users we're a small minority in the first place, in my eyes it's a technological wonder that it's possible at all. The machinery needed to populate SL could be a PC big as a trunk, it would still amaze me. Now we can obviously play SL even on laptops, even on weak ones. And now slowly even on tablets. But why should we? Trading in all the functionality and immersiveness just so we can bragg about our sexy tablets?

SL might be a 3D chatroom for many and they might be happy with Lumiya or tablet solutions, but that's not what the developers had in mind, that's not what most active communities have in mind. I could spend days without chatting (if my friends would let me) and just test boats, explore the grid, ride my bikes, do photos for my bloggy. I definately need some oomph from my hardware. As do most of the RPers and vehicle users need it as well. Why should I or my friends in the community spend a thought on all those losers who hang out at n00b hubs and trying to look cool? Why should anyone care about ppl who log in once a week for 5 minutes and want to run their reduced experience on a cellphone or tablet?

I don't need a consumer's device. I need a beast that gets me around in SL and gives me even enough power to sometimes be creative. To make it short: I'd rather leave SL for good than scaling down!

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Who was ever talking about you scaling down? As I said myself, there's no turning back now I'm used to ultra settings. But then again, who ever said anyone needs to turn back?

I'm sorry to say I find your entire view very shortsighted. If the biggest potential market is tablets and lightweight notebooks, that will probably be the biggest group of users in the years to come. They'll be the people who make it possible for others to have a sim where you can sail on ultra settings and the sims you explore for days on end without talking to anyone.

That doesn't mean you have to take a step back, that doesn't mean LL has to stop all the fancyness like shadows and other shaders. It just means SL should be available for people with those lightweight devices. Looking at the original post here, that might take minimum efford from LL, as those devices are becoming much more powerful at an almost unbelievable speed. How can that be seen as negative in any way? It's not just 16 year old people who use tablets and smart phones. It's kids, teenagers, students, mom and dad, gran and gramps, it's pretty much everybody.

Going by the figures presented in that OP, Lumya as we know it now could soon be ancient history. We are talking about full viewers here on mobile devices, just not on the highest settings.

What the developers had in mind isn't all that important if you ask me. SL is what it is and while LL can guide it somewhat, it's a resident created platform, so if it takes a turn here and there, that's part of how SL works, just like RL.

(All I meant by the chatroom comment was that SL is in the first place a social platform, I didn't mean most people just log in to look at a text box)

You do not have to scale down just because other people enjoy SL on less fancy hardware than you have under your desk.

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Wow Orca must a be troll's name.

Seriously dude, we got the message loud and clear like two pages ago...you DON'T like this tablet.

 

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The Surface Pro still is an overpriced, low perf toy device, and, it's quite umpopular world wide as there are better  toys for less money around, you can even buy a real computer for the price of a surface toy.

If I look at microsoft's  surface ads, I'd fear that I would lose all productivity and turn into a jumping, dancing and singing idiot hammering around on a pink cheaply looking  rubber keyboard.

 

A  popular german newspaper  titled their surface pro test : 'The worst from both worlds' recently by the way, for those who understand gernan, here's the link: Das Schlechteste aus zwei Welten

J.

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pixysticks wrote:

 

Well you can look out your window, at me, walking around on my Surface Pro enjoying the real world and the virtual world at the same time.
:)

 

I always laugh at the people who bring tablets or laptops to the beach near my house.. i have heard SL noises from some of them while i lay in the sun reading a book. And then the cursing and yelling starts when they get sand or ocean spray in them and they die horrible sparking deaths.. or someone steps on it by accident.. Whatever happened to unplugging and enjoying nature?

I am a creator in Sl, if there is an issue i deal with it when i get home and see the offline email. If that is too much of a delay for some people.. You have more issues than you thought.

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