FPS and Bandwidth

[Kelley Wonder]

Hello, I am hoping someone can explain to me, a person who knows next to nothing about these things, about FPS and Bandwidth and the best settings to achieve a good quality experience in SL. What do they mean and what should I hope to achieve? My FPS changes as I move around Sl, but mainly stays at around 3.7. MY bandwidth ranges between 120-165. Are these bad, good, etc? Thank you for your time and patience.

[Trixie Wyx]

3.7, as in less than four, is really bad, but it's typical if you're on a low end computer, or one that's aggressive about low power. If you're stuck with older Intel integrated graphics, it will be hard to get much better. The bandwidth use is kind of low,  your viewer probably picked low graphic settings and a short draw distance because of the slow graphics.

It can be hard to move around in SL if you can't get at least a sustained 10 fps, and the motion doesn't look smooth until you get up to 25-30. More than that and it starts to feel almost realistic, but there is a downside too: all the mistakes in rough animations etc. really start to get obvious when you can see all the in betweens that slow hardware skips.

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Kelley Wonder wrote:

Hello, I am hoping someone can explain to me, a person who knows next to nothing about these things, about FPS and Bandwidth and the best settings to achieve a good quality experience in SL. What do they mean and what should I hope to achieve? My FPS changes as I move around Sl, but mainly stays at around 3.7. MY bandwidth ranges between 120-165. Are these bad, good, etc? Thank you for your time and patience.

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Hi Kelley,

3.7 FPS is pretty slow. You might improve things by decreasing your draw distance. I rarely go higher than 128m and can be quite happy at 64 on many sims. Lowering your global drawing quality setting to Mid or Low may also help. SL is pretty demanding on graphics hardware, though not so much on bandwidth. There are more detailed settings available if you select "Advanced" in the graphics window.

You'll see bandwidth spike whenever to teleport to a new a new region or move through one, as your computer must download the textures and geometries of all the new things within view. If you stay put, your bandwidth should eventually level off well below the 120-165Kbps you mentioned.

Tell us more about your system and your settings. I don't think any of us want to see you suffering through SL at 3.7fps!

[Kelley Wonder]

Thank you for your reply. Windows 7, Processor: AMD Sempron 2.30GHz, RAM 3 GB, 64 bit, Base Score 3.0, NVidia GE Force 6150SE nForce 430. I keep updates current. My settings in SL are on Low and sliders in graphics..low to mid...I am not sure what more I can do. I cannot use basic shaders or the lag is impossible.

[Kelley Wonder]

Also, I am wondering where max bandwidth and texture bandwidth should be set in preferences, graphics.

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Kelley Wonder wrote:

Thank you for your reply. Windows 7, Processor: AMD Sempron 2.30GHz, RAM 3 GB, 64 bit, Base Score 3.0, NVidia GE Force 6150SE nForce 430. I keep updates current. My settings in SL are on Low and sliders in graphics..low to mid...I am not sure what more I can do. I cannot use basic shaders or the lag is impossible.

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That's a pretty old system, Kelley.  Your nVIDIA card is a step or two below SL's current minimum requirement of a GeForce 6600 or better. I'm afraid you may not get rip roaring speed from it. Lower your draw distance to 64 or less if you can. If your lag is intolerable when surrounded by avatars, lower your "Max # of non-imposter avatars" count. That will replace live animated avatars with posterboard proxies. It's not pretty, but it might keep you going in crowded areas.

It you're just laggy in general, you may have to start dragging sliders towards the left and turning off more bells and whistles, like local lights, bump and shiny, and water transparency.

Make sure "Allow multiple viewers" is unchecked in the Advanced Tab. That has slowed me down a tiny bit in the past.

[SLtesterL2]

First of all, when you log into SL, does it switch Nvidia or stay on the intergrated Graphics card? Try this:

 

• Right click your desktop
• click on Nvidia control panel
• Go to manage 3D settings
• Then add SL to the program list of software that you want to use with nvidia

You can also do this by right clicking the SL icon and click "run with graphic processor" and click on nvidia. If you followed the bullet points correctly, it should ay (default) next to the Nvidia option.

 

Also, remember to update your graphics card with drivers updates from the distributor site and what not. Hope this helps!

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Kelley Wonder wrote:

Also, I am wondering where max bandwidth and texture bandwidth should be set in preferences, graphics.

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I always run with max bandwidth as high as it goes, but I do recall reading that might result in packet loss if you have a slow connection. The "Statistics Bar" under the advanced menu will show you packet loss. I've never seen losses, but you might. If you do see packet loss, try reducing bandwidth.

I run Firestorm and don't see a texture bandwidth setting, but wouldn't be surprised if the same thoughts apply there.

Good luck, Kelley!

[Trixie Wyx]

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Kelley Wonder wrote:

Thank you for your reply. Windows 7, Processor: AMD Sempron 2.30GHz, RAM 3 GB, 64 bit, Base Score 3.0, NVidia GE Force 6150SE nForce 430. I keep updates current. My settings in SL are on Low and sliders in graphics..low to mid...I am not sure what more I can do. I cannot use basic shaders or the lag is impossible.

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The 6150SE is your problem. That's integrated graphics, and very old tech. It only supports up to OpenGL 2.1 even with the newest drivers. It runs shaders really slowly, so basic shaders off is a really good idea. Push the main graphics slider all the way to the left and you could get above 10 fps in quiet places.

 

[Suspiria Finucane]

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Kelley Wonder wrote:

Hello, I am hoping someone can explain to me, a person who knows next to nothing about these things, about FPS and Bandwidth and the best settings to achieve a good quality experience in SL. What do they mean and what should I hope to achieve? My FPS changes as I move around Sl, but mainly stays at around 3.7. MY bandwidth ranges between 120-165. Are these bad, good, etc? Thank you for your time and patience.

---

FPS- Frames per second.

From Wikipedia:

Frame rate (also known as frame frequency) is the frequency (rate) at which an imaging device produces unique consecutive images called frames.

This is primarily dependent on your graphic card's abilities. (processor and memory are also important) FPS change as you move due to different or more objects (textures) attempting to rez. When more things attempt to rez, bandwidth increases until the process is complete.

Typically after everything is rezzed bandwidth should be 1-4.

 

[Kelley Wonder]

So I take it FPS needs to be in the 20-25 range and bandwidth changes as you move about. Mine is usually about 120, is that bad? Sorry, I am trying to grasp this.

[Freya Mokusei]

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Kelley Wonder wrote:

So I take it FPS needs to be in the 20-25 range

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The human eye can see motion on screens as separate images approximately up to 30FPS, though TVs broadcast at approximately 23-30FPS. (As you likely know, a frame is a static image, TV's work by showing lots of static images really quickly, to fool the eye into thinking motion is occuring.) Any higher than this, and although it can be noticed sometimes, your eye will 'skip' some of the intervening frames. Any slower than this, and the image will 'jitter' and motion will not appear smooth.

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Kelley Wonder wrote:

bandwidth changes as you move about. Mine is usually about 120, is that bad?

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Bandwidth is determined by your connection. Your connection will change depending on local interferance, your location, other users impinging on your bandwidth, as well as how much you pay your ISP per month for your Internet connection, and the hardware you use (it can even change depending on the weather). Put simply, there is no way anyone here can tell you what your bandwidth should be. What you can do is keep an eye on it; if it seems to be trying to jump higher but can't, your connection may be too slow (finding out why it is slow is going to be harder), if it seems that your bandwidth is too consistantly high, you may be not retaining data (and can improve your cache size). Overall, bandwidth is a far more complicated metric to use to balance your Second Life experience. I would just pay attention to the 'trend' of it, and keep your own statistics.

Don't be afraid of asking questions, curiosity is good.

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Kelley Wonder wrote:

So I take it FPS needs to be in the 20-25 range and bandwidth changes as you move about. Mine is usually about 120, is that bad? Sorry, I am trying to grasp this.

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FPS needs to be high enough to make you happy. FPS is the number of times per second that your computer is able to update its view of SL. For comparison, theatrical movies have historically been filmed and shown at 24FPS. Old television shows were recorded at 30FPS. Some newer theatrical movies are being shown at 48FPS and HDTV is shot at 60FPS. The higher the frame rate, the more realistic the experience.

I lived for years in SL using a laptop computer that rarely got above 8-10FPS. I was happy enough. As you tell the viewer to do more complicated things (like make the water transparent, show local lights, show reflections in the water, show atmospheric effects (like fog), etc... it will take longer to draw each new frame and your FPS will drop. At low frame rates, motion is choppy and you lose the feeling you are navigating a 3D space. At some point it will be too low for you to enjoy the experience. Only you know that your minimum acceptable frame rate is. I expect you came to the forums to inquire about this because 3.7FPS is lower than you'd like.

Bandwidth, as I explained elsewhere in this thread, is the measure of data moved between SL and your viewer. It's measured in thousands of bits/second (Kbps). When you first log in, teleport or walk/fly into previously unseen regions of SL, your viewer will need the textures and shapes of the objects coming into view, so it can draw them. It will ask the SL servers for the data, and the servers will send it. Textures can be large, and a region might contain hundreds of them, so when you first arrive, you'll see the bandwidth meter jump, possibly up to the limit you've set in the settings window. That will last a while, until all the requested textures have been loaded into your computer's local cache (the size of which you also specified in settings). After that, even if you stop moving, your viewer will continue to inform the server of your activities (moving, typing in chat, etc) and the servers will send down updates on changes in the scene (avatars and/or object that are moving, incoming text, etc). At that point, your bandwidth should drop considerably. I think my viewer generally idles in the 40Kbps range.

It seems that your graphics adapter is the primary culprit here. It's a decade old and below the minimum recommended by LL for use with SL. That said, if that's what you have to work with, reducing your draw distance, so there's less to draw, and turning off all the bells and whistles, as I and others have recommended, may increase your framerate. Beyond that, at some point you'll have to consider, if possible, either upgrading your graphics adapter, or your entire PC.

Again, good luck!

[Perrie Juran]

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Kelley Wonder wrote:

Hello, I am hoping someone can explain to me, a person who knows next to nothing about these things, about FPS and Bandwidth and the best settings to achieve a good quality experience in SL. What do they mean and what should I hope to achieve? My FPS changes as I move around Sl, but mainly stays at around 3.7. MY bandwidth ranges between 120-165. Are these bad, good, etc? Thank you for your time and patience.

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As others have stated as you move about SL your FPS and BW are going to fluctuate.  What is affecting it is the specific information that is being processed at any given moment in time. 

The SL Servers ideally operate at 45FPS and I believe it is 1500MPS.

There have been some heated debates in this Forum over whether you gain a visual advantage with Frame Rates higher than this.  But that would be a side topic.

The general advice based on general experience has been to set Bandwidth at 80% of your maximum as tested to the cities where the SL servers are located.  See Checking Your Real Bandwidth (pops) for specific instructions.  Also see Lag / Internet Connection (pops) in the SL Wiki for more information.

The reason for saying "general" above is because not every ones experience is identical and as it states in the Wiki, you may need to play around with the settings to achieve what are the best results for you.

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

There have been some heated debates in this Forum over whether you gain a visual advantage with Frame Rates higher than this.  But that would be a side topic.

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And on that side topic!

Most PCs refresh their screens at 60Hz. Some hard core gamers may dink around in their control panels to select higher refresh rates, but most of us don't, or can't (I'm on a Mac and have no selections for refresh rate). So I think it's fair to argue that, for most of us, there's no benefit to having an SL FPS that's higher than 60. All that extra rendering (if it's even done) would never be seen.

[Suspiria Finucane]

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Kelley Wonder wrote:

So I take it FPS needs to be in the 20-25 range and bandwidth changes as you move about. Mine is usually about 120, is that bad? Sorry, I am trying to grasp this.

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I believe the LL lag meter is around 10 FPS or so. 25 can be good dependent again on many factors, object count and type, textures, avatars present etc. 120 kbps could be high if your system is still loading. It's hard to determine without seeing graphs. What I use for a reference for bandwidth is my ping.  The lower the better. Control+shift+1 will bring up the statistics bar.

 

 

Using your statistics bar as a reference you can see what graphic settings work best for you. Others have provided some good info as well.

[Suspiria Finucane]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

There have been some heated debates in this Forum over whether you gain a visual advantage with Frame Rates higher than this.  But that would be a side topic.

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And on that side topic!

Most PCs refresh their screens at 60Hz. Some hard core gamers may dink around in their control panels to select higher refresh rates, but most of us don't, or can't (I'm on a Mac and have no selections for refresh rate). So I think it's fair to argue that, for most of us, there's no benefit to having an SL FPS that's higher than 60. All that extra rendering (if it's even done) would never be seen.

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No lag is good lag whether I see how it is removed or not

[TristanMercer]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

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I always run with max bandwidth as high as it goes, but I do recall reading that might result in packet loss if you have a slow connection. The "Statistics Bar" under the advanced menu will show you packet loss. I've never seen losses, but you might. If you do see packet loss, try reducing bandwidth.

I run Firestorm and don't see a texture bandwidth setting, but wouldn't be surprised if the same thoughts apply there.

Good luck, Kelley!

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There is no point in ever putting bandwidth over 1500kbps in preferences. Linden Lab servers run at max of 1500kbps, nothing more. You are just wasting bandwidth if you set it to 10,000kbps.

[Evangeline Arcadia]

SLtesterL2 - thanks for this tip! I hadn't even realised I could add SL to the Nvidia settings.