Rod Humble interview and new Drax Files

[Jo Yardley]

Watch the Drax Files episode about Linden Lab CEO Rod Humble here and read everything that didn't fit in the video here in the full interview ;
http://joyardley.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/the-rod-humble-interview/

[Venus Petrov]

Thank you for posting the full transcript.

[Jo Yardley]

My pleasure, I thought it might be of interest to some

[Sephina Frostbite]

I enjoyed it, thank you.

[Perrie Juran]

Thank you for posting.

He is fighting an up hill publicity battle.

He is too rosy in that interview and I am sorry to say that costs him credibility.

For instance, he mentions new sign ups (400,000 a month !?!?!?!) but forgets that he told us that we can't retain them.

We all applaud the investment in technical improvements how ever questionable the need for some things may be like pathfinding when compared with the greater need for better customer service.

[Jo Yardley]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

For instance, he mentions new sign ups (400,000 a month !?!?!?!) but forgets that he told us that we can't retain them.

 

---

 

I think he doesn't forget that, he mentioned before in another interview that this is an issue and he also talks about it in the "new users" part on my blog.

[Alicia Sautereau]

I lolled on this part

I come from gaming communities, where I was running a gaming community, I received three death threats in a day!I’ve never received three death threats in a day from Second Life users, I’ve only received only one death threat here.And that was from a guy who got banned, you know, he was angry.

 

Thanks for the link, tho the numbers i take with a few sacks of salt

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Jo Yardley wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

For instance, he mentions new sign ups (400,000 a month !?!?!?!) but forgets that he told us that we can't retain them.

 

---

 

I think he doesn't forget that, he mentioned before in another interview that this is an issue and he also talks about it in the "new users" part on my blog.

---

You'd think Rod would be trying to mininize new signups until retention improved. Concurrency continues to fall. That's 400,000 people a month who'll are less likely to return than those hearing of SL for the first time.

[Madelaine McMasters]

Rod Humble said:

"Second Life is ahead of its generation, but very traditional in the fact that it enables creativity and I believe that that is the most powerful form of interactivity and entertainment."

I'm not sure what's traditional about enabling creativity. Didn't Philip Rosedale claim that this enabling of creativity was what sets SL apart?

"I think with mesh there is a dramatic transformation between older creations and ones that you can make with current generation tools and upload within Second Life.
And if you just look side by side with the same creator of what they could make two years ago and what they can make today with mesh, it is absolutely stunning. And I am so pleased to see the results."

Mesh is the least accessible form of content creation yet devised by LL. So much for enabling creativity. I agree with Perrie that Rod is trying so hard to sound upbeat that he sounds out of touch.

[Jo Yardley]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

Mesh is the least accessible form of content creation yet devised by LL. So much for enabling creativity.

---

Is it?

I found it pretty easy to learn how to make mesh and it has opened up a whole new way of building and being creative for me.

 

[Perrie Juran]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

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Jo Yardley wrote:

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Perrie Juran wrote:

 

For instance, he mentions new sign ups (400,000 a month !?!?!?!) but forgets that he told us that we can't retain them.

 

---

 

I think he doesn't forget that, he mentioned before in another interview that this is an issue and he also talks about it in the "new users" part on my blog.

---

You'd think Rod would be trying to mininize new signups until retention improved. Concurrency continues to fall. That's 400,000 people a month who'll are less likely to return than those hearing of SL for the first time.

---

And just not new user but even more importantly old user retention.

It looks like we just lost two more phenomenal SIMs, Alpha Point and Omega Point.

http://www.gridsurvey.com/display.php?id=76729

http://www.gridsurvey.com/display.php?id=64820

I am in the group for these SIMs and they have been off line for two weeks now and the owners have so far not responded to any inquiries.  You could not go to them and not be amazed by them.

[Perrie Juran]

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Jo Yardley wrote:

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

Mesh is the least accessible form of content creation yet devised by LL. So much for enabling creativity.

---

Is it?

I found it pretty easy to learn how to make mesh and it has opened up a whole new way of building and being creative for me.

 

---

You may be an exception to the rule. All you need to do is peruse the Mesh Creation sub forum to know that Mesh has been a boondogle for many.  The learning curve on it has been kicking me.

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Jo Yardley wrote:

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

Mesh is the least accessible form of content creation yet devised by LL. So much for enabling creativity.

---

Is it?

I found it pretty easy to learn how to make mesh and it has opened up a whole new way of building and being creative for me.

 

---

It is.

When SL started, all the building tools you needed were in-world. While those tools still exist, they are crude compared to external creation tools for sculpties and mesh. These external tools have learning curves comparable to, or steeper than, SL itself. This may be a boon to creative professionals, but it's a barrier to those with limited time and no prior creation skills.

Mesh will certainly attract some people, but I wonder if it will create a creator caste system that makes SL less attractive to the unskilled, or make SL more like other virtual worlds, where the content is created by a small population of creators.

This may all be unavoidable. SL isn't going to attract casual users. Those people have gone off to mobile in droves. If this is the case, admitting it wouldn't be a bad thing. Know your audience.

[Jo Yardley]

Yes and no.

I agree that mesh is actually very difficult if you don't have the right tools, I forgot about that for a moment.

So there is a steep learning curve, but I feel that simply using the viewer is a steep learning curve as well and one that needs solving a lot more.

Anyway, when mesh came I panicked because all the 3d software out there made my brain explode, seriously, with bits coming out of my ears and so on.

But then I found an inworld mesh creator and I've been meshing like mad since then.

I'm meshing all of 1920s Berlin.

My mesh tool turns normal prims into mesh, I build with the normal prims, click 'mesh' and within seconds I have a doa file I can upload.

Very easy!

Of course it is not good that if you want to build mesh you need to go learn complicated software or spend money on less complicated software or inworld mesh tools.

If someone brilliant can build inworld mesh tools, someone at Linden Lab can do that as well and they should incooperate it into their normal building tools.

So you're right, mesh is very complicated unless you find inworld tools or figure out the software.

I hope that LL will improve on this and bring mesh creation tools inworld for us all.

[Perrie Juran]

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Madelaine McMasters wrote:

---

Jo Yardley wrote:

---

Madelaine McMasters wrote:

Mesh is the least accessible form of content creation yet devised by LL. So much for enabling creativity.

---

Is it?

I found it pretty easy to learn how to make mesh and it has opened up a whole new way of building and being creative for me.

 

---

It is.

When SL started, all the building tools you needed were in-world. While those tools still exist, they are crude compared to external creation tools for sculpties and mesh. These external tools have learning curves comparable to, or steeper than, SL itself. This may be a boon to creative professionals, but it's a barrier to those with limited time and no prior creation skills.

Mesh will certainly attract some people, but I wonder if it will create a creator caste system that makes SL less attractive to the unskilled, or make SL more like other virtual worlds, where the content is created by a small population of creators.

This may all be unavoidable. SL isn't going to attract casual users. Those people have gone off to mobile in droves. If this is the case, admitting it wouldn't be a bad thing. Know your audience.

---

"Mesh will certainly attract some people, but I wonder if it will create a creator caste system that makes SL less attractive to the unskilled, or make SL more like other virtual worlds, where the content is created by a small population of creators."

^^^^^This^^^^^

Down in the Merchants sub forum where long time and skilled creators post there have been several of them who have made this observation.

Of course not everyone in SL wants to build or learn how to build.  I was teaching a two year old account how to store back ups in a box to reduce inventory clutter and had to first teach them how to create a prim!  But still it goes against the general flow of "Your World, Your Imagination."

 

 

[Medhue Simoni]

"I actually regard the Second Life community as far more polite and less vitriolic then many video game communities I’ve managed, maybe it’s just my experience but for me it’s a step up." - Rodvik Humble

 

Did you hear that? We are slacking BIGTIME!!!

 

Great interview! I really miss the speeches, the Lindens would give every year. This felt like 1 of those. For the most part, I agree with most of what Rod said. What always worries me is just how tight lipped LL always is. It sounds like Rod understands how different SL is than other other game platform, but I don't think he or maybe the board doesn't understand that the communities and creators need openness so that we can plan ahead, and maybe even help out. It's not just our game tokens on the line or some nik naks. For many of us, it's our livelyhoods, and more.

 

 

 

[Medhue Simoni]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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Of course not everyone in SL wants to build or learn how to build.  I was teaching a two year old account how to store back ups in a box to reduce inventory clutter and had to first teach them how to create a prim!  But still it goes against the general flow of "Your World, Your Imagination."

 

 

---

I beg to differ. If you own a house in RL, is it yours? What about your car? How about your TV, or computer? Did you make any of those things? Did you put the painting on the wall or the couch where it is? Did you make the paintings? Is the room any less yours? "Your" doesn't imply that you created it. It implies ownership. Some of us like to make animations. Some of us like to make textures. Some of use love gardens. Some of us build castles. When we all come together and voluntarily trade goods in a free and open market, every1 benefits. We acquire the things we need or want by voluntary exchange. No person in SL could even think of doing it all. I know how to make most things in SL, but why would I when I can buy it for 50 lindens, and some1 that loves making that put more detail than I would have.

I'd love to see more professional creators in SL. There really is room for every1, and it encourages novices to learn and promotes competition. Again, every1 wins. Some may lose businesses, but that is not a loss, it's a learning experience. It's the market saying they should move in a different direction. This is why the market works and is the most moral way to run a world. It's all voluntary. To dictate or use protectionism within a market, is to use force. What benefits every1 is SL being as beautiful as possible. I have faith that the really passionate people that create in SL will learn the things they need to learn to compete directly with any1. Today, most of the best tools are free.

[Jenni Darkwatch]

I'm still surprised as to the difference between Rod and his predecessor M.

Rod seems to have a genuine interest in SL and is trying to grasp how to improvie it. More to the point, he realized what a beast of a project SL is.

Mostly I agree with what he says and oddly also with the controversial points made here in this thread. Why do I agree with conflicting statements?

Because SL isn't the same for everyone who's using it. I know many creators, but I also know many who never touch the build menu.

Making SL more popular or increasing user retention isn't as easy as it sounds either. Some people just feel SL is a waste of time, or they don 't want SL, they want a first person shooter or MMO and are disappointed if they see that SL is neither of those. People leave because they move on, they get bored because "they've done it all" or they just got burned out. Many of those will blame SL for their own boredom.

Then there's the issue of more and more mobile computing. SL isn't really suited for that simply because at the current time the hardware requirements are just too high. SL suffers in that area. Sure, there's plenty of vocal people who demand that LL doesn't get new features because it increases system requirements and/or increases the learning curve for creators. Yet SL is still fairly far behind in tech. When it launched in 2003 it was technologically outdated. It stillis outdated, despite mesh and materials having made huge strides to getting it at least to the level of tech 7 years ago. That too drives people away. They log on to SL and go "WTF is this fugly laggy game?"

Whether people think SL is a game or not is irrelevant. First impressions count. My first visit was extremely brief: Loaded the client, laughed my head off about the pathetic graphics and ludicrous UI (sometime between 2003 and 2005, forgot exactly when), deleted the client after 5 minutes of trying to figure out what to do. If it wasn't for a RL friend _and_ work demanding a look I'd never have given it a second chance, years later.

I know what my dream SL would look like but that's not going to happen anytime soon. The tech isn't _quite_ there yet and neither is anyone with the imagination and drive to get it done.

[Sephina Frostbite]

I agree and want to add that part of the reason Sl is behind graphic wise is due to the fact that its user created. Most people just dont have those skills to build to todays standards. Imho of course but I think that having to graphics standards higher is sl would make less creators and in turn less people. If it wasnt for my sister showing me sl as well as a love for creating I would have left sl after my first broken heart.

[Perrie Juran]

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

---

Perrie Juran wrote:

---

Of course not everyone in SL wants to build or learn how to build.  I was teaching a two year old account how to store back ups in a box to reduce inventory clutter and had to first teach them how to create a prim!  But still it goes against the general flow of "Your World, Your Imagination."

 

 

---

I beg to differ. If you own a house in RL, is it yours? What about your car? How about your TV, or computer? Did you make any of those things? Did you put the painting on the wall or the couch where it is? Did you make the paintings? Is the room any less yours? "Your" doesn't imply that you created it. It implies ownership. Some of us like to make animations. Some of us like to make textures. Some of use love gardens. Some of us build castles. When we all come together and voluntarily trade goods in a free and open market, every1 benefits. We acquire the things we need or want by voluntary exchange. No person in SL could even think of doing it all. I know how to make most things in SL, but why would I when I can buy it for 50 lindens, and some1 that loves making that put more detail than I would have.

I'd love to see more professional creators in SL. There really is room for every1, and it encourages novices to learn and promotes competition. Again, every1 wins. Some may lose businesses, but that is not a loss, it's a learning experience. It's the market saying they should move in a different direction. This is why the market works and is the most moral way to run a world. It's all voluntary. To dictate or use protectionism within a market, is to use force. What benefits every1 is SL being as beautiful as possible. I have faith that the really passionate people that create in SL will learn the things they need to learn to compete directly with any1. Today, most of the best tools are free.

---

I am not saying that I am against those things.  My aplogies if I came accross that way.  It is everyone's individual choice how they want to use SL and what they do here.  I also understand the need to be fore sighted.  Ten years from now knowing how to use Mesh Creation programs will be more common place than it is now.  For those of us who don't know, for some of us it is a steep learning curve.  I don't want to see innovation excluded but I also don't want to get excluded either.

I've seen some great thing sbuilt with mesh.  But honestly at this point I have not seen any mesh builds that come close to the beauty of Japan Tempura or Davinci Gardens or the sadly now gone Alpha & Omega Points which were all done in prims.  Maybe it's coming, but I haven't seen it yet.

 

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Medhue Simoni wrote:

Great interview! I really miss the speeches, the Lindens would give every year. This felt like 1 of those. For the most part, I agree with most of what Rod said. What always worries me is just how tight lipped LL always is. It sounds like Rod understands how different SL is than other other game platform, but I don't think he or maybe the board doesn't understand that the communities and creators need openness so that we can plan ahead, and maybe even help out. It's not just our game tokens on the line or some nik naks. For many of us, it's our livelyhoods, and more.

---

 

That's just it.  How can you plan ahead if you don't know where they are going.

Introducing new creation tools is great but if we keep losing great builds we also lose the templates for what can be accomplished here.

I guess overall one of my concerns is that the new creation tools, because of the learning curve involved, that it may serve to discourage more people than to encourage them at this present time.

 

[Amie Kaestner]

"I actually regard the Second Life community as far more polite and less vitriolic then many video game communities I’ve managed, maybe it’s just my experience but for me it’s a step up." - Rodvik Humble

 

Something tells me Roddy hasn't been to a welcome area lately.

 

[Medhue Simoni]

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Perrie Juran wrote:

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I guess overall one of my concerns is that the new creation tools, because of the learning curve involved, that it may serve to discourage more people than to encourage them at this present time.

 

---

7 years ago, the only thing I knew about 3D gaming came from the Editor that came with Far Cry. I didn't know anything at all about animation. Then, I found SL. Doing animation for SL happens all outside of SL and is brought in. For this reason, importing meshes isn't much different to me. I learned how to make meshes because I heard LL talking about it, just like I learned how to make animations before that. All the information is online. SL is like a massive introduction into the basics of 3D creation. Every single 3D program has a set of primitive to start with, almost exactly like SL. This is why, in some areas, you won't see much difference between some prim and mesh objects, especially when sculpties are brought into the picture. What people don't see, is what is going on behind the scenes, and how much more efficient that mesh is over the prim version.

With mesh, a creator has total control over everything. Just creating good UV maps for meshes helps to lower the resources needed to render it. The only reason that I understand all this is because of the Far Cry game and how everything was made in there. I edited lots of clothing in the game and it was crazy how efficiently made each texture map was. Most of the lag issues in SL are directly linked to inefficiencies in the creations that populate it. Some are ridiculously extreme too, because people can. I agree that their are some beautiful things that were made with prims and sculpties, but it doesn't help to reduce lag by saving those old things. Plus, new things will come.

 

My point is tho, that mesh is necessary to cut down on the lag and resources every1 is using. Prims, by their very nature promote inefficiency. My other point is that everything happens in steps that are easy to learn step by step. Learning SL creation is 1 step, and it makes learning 3DS Max, Maya, or Blender easier. I first got a copy of 3DS Max a few years before I found SL. It was massively intimidating. I was clueless, no matter how many tutorials I did. It was all just too much new info. When I broke it out again after hearing LL suggest mesh was coming. Like magic, I was making meshes in no time at all. Ok, yeah, I'm more of an animator, but SL has now brought me into the whole 3D metaverse, and now I sell digital items in just about every 3D market possible, with more opportunities daily. It's hard to keep track now. SL is now a gateway to the professional 3D community. I really don't look at it like the pros are going to walk all over us. I look at it like the pros better watch out for their 3D competitors in SL.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to someday see mesh creation tools in SL. That would make things really interesting. I'm not sure I would prefer that as a creator, over 3ds Max, but it would be fun to manipulate them inworld. How would the UV map be made tho? Hmmm.

[Jo Yardley]

I think this is a good moment to show off some mesh stuff made with an inworld mesh builder

If you can build with prims, you can make mesh.

 

[Madelaine McMasters]

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Jo Yardley wrote:

I think this is a good moment to show off some mesh stuff made with an inworld mesh builder

If you can build with prims, you can make mesh.

---

You're gonna make me eat my words, aren't ya, Jo?

If the learning curve for mesh really can be flattened, LL needs to get the word out.

[Jo Yardley]

Well technically you're right because SL doesn't offer users the ability to easily make mesh.... luckily some smart SL USERS do

I hope LL has a chat with these smart LL users and offers them a big pile of money so they can add this mesh building options to their viewer!

But on the other hand, yes, once you find the mesh builder, it becomes easier

Takes only seconds to turn prims to mesh.

But for soft and flowing objects, you still need to learn brain exploding software.