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Invisiprims: LL is still giving out broken avatars to new users


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As many of us know, Invisiprims have been broken for about two years now, in the sense that they behave just like ordinary fully transparent prims as far as people with deferred rendering (a.k.a lighting and shadows) turned are concerned.   That is, as far as anyone with deferred rendering is concerned, they don't hide the avatar mesh and your shoes look horrible.

The fix, of course, is to wear alpha layers instead, which hide your feet and don't create the unfortunate visual artifacts associated with invisiprims.

However, LL is still, after two years, giving new users avatars that use the broken invisiprims, despite the fact there's been a jira open, listing all the avatars that need fixing, since July of last year https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-29335

I made a new alt today, to test this and, while the newer, vampire, avatars have alpha layers for their feet, the older, human avatars stil have these broken invisiprims.    To my mind, it's even more of a problem now than it was in the past, since people with decent graphics cards now have their preferences set by default to use deferred rendering and, thus, to break invisprims.   

So someone creating an account for the first time and logging in with a reasonable computer is going to look down at his or her feet and shudder.

Here are screenshots of Female City, Female Student and Female Cosplay, the first three avatars I chose at random:

Female City

female city.jpg

Female Student

female student.jpg

Female CosPlay

female cosplay.JPG

It can't be good for new user retention to be giving people broken avatars, and it's not a difficult fix, it seems to me.   After all, everyone who makes shoes to sell has had to tackle this, and I'm sure there must be someone at LL who can use Gimp or Photoshop and fix the damn things.

I've tried raising this in various ways before, but nothing ever seems to have come of it, and the one Linden I knew who was interested in this, Viale, has long since left.   I can see it's the sort of thing that easily slips through the cracks but I wish there was some way of getting it back onto someone's agenda.

Anyone got any ideas?

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The starter avatars were made by a resident who at the time was active on these forums (or that hive of scum and villainy SLU).

They were not made by LLs.

LLs doesn't have the know how left to make new ones, and they're not likely to pay anyone that does anything other than "name recognition"...

So, we're kinda stuck in the water on this one I suspect.

 

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I'd say since those of us with older PCs get to see half-invisible people, box heads, giant marbles (per a photo I posted in another thread), etc., etc. due to not seeing mesh - then people with newer PCs can see our invisiprims weirdly. :matte-motes-tongue:  As long as I'm not being seen as naked, I really don't care how the general SL populace sees me.  I would imagine those wearing mesh feel the same way toward those of us who don't see what they see.

On a more serious note, I've removed all the invisiprims from my old shoes.  Should I apply an alpha for the shoes to render correctly for all viewers?

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The pitiful thing about this is that it would be so easy to fix.  Sassy's free alpha mask for pumps would work for the shoes. Alpha masks for boots are so easy to make that it's not worth spending time looking for free ones.  I have one for boots that I made I will asked to LL if asked.  It took me about five minutes to make, and my skills are minimal.

  

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Czari Zenovka wrote:

On a more serious note, I've removed all the invisiprims from my old shoes.  Should I apply an alpha for the shoes to render correctly for all viewers?

Yes. Even 1.23 could render alpha masks properly, even though it could not use them.

You can get free generic ones on MP that will probably work fine for boots, pumps, sneakers, and oxfords.  For sandals, you need one made the particular shoe or a similar one.  I have several full perm ones that I have collected or made that i'd happily share.  If you want them, IM me.

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As Jennifer says, it's not a question of replacing the avatars at all.

It's simply a question of fixing their shoes and boots by ditching the invisiprims (if possible) and replacing them with alpha masks.   For the boots they could almost certainly simply use the ones they already have as components in the vampire avatars, and for the shoes there's plenty for free masks available (though it's not too difficult to make your own, and they must have some people on their team with graphic design skills).

 

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Jennifer Boyle wrote:


Czari Zenovka wrote:

On a more serious note, I've removed all the invisiprims from my old shoes.  Should I apply an alpha for the shoes to render correctly for all viewers?

Yes. Even 1.23 could render alpha masks properly, even though it could not use them.

You can get free generic ones on MP that will probably work fine for boots, pumps, sneakers, and oxfords.  For sandals, you need one made the particular shoe or a similar one.  I have several full perm ones that I have collected or made that i'd happily share.  If you want them, IM me.

Thank you, Jennifer :)  I have some alpha textures that came with recent shoe purchases.  Some really thoughtful designers are including instruction cards that say what parts of the package to wear for 1.x viewers and 2.x viewers.  The alpha textures in those *should* work I would think.  I'll have to ask a friend to check out how they look since on my viewer my shoes look ok.

Thank you also for the offer of the alphas.  If the ones I have don't work, will take up your offer and send an IM to you. :)

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

As Jennifer says, it's not a question of replacing the avatars at all.

 

Well they should be replaced anyway. They looked bad even at the time they came out (2010 I think). Disproportionate as heck in wats that even at their height can be corrected.

I would call putting in alpha masks just a bandaid. But I don't think LLs has the technical knowhow remaining to do either job. They've canned every linden that goes inworld save for Torley.

 

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Pussycat Catnap wrote:


Innula Zenovka wrote:

As Jennifer says, it's not a question of replacing the avatars at all.

 

Well they should be replaced anyway. They looked bad even at the time they came out (2010 I think). Disproportionate as heck in wats that even at their height can be corrected.

I would call putting in alpha masks just a bandaid. But I don't think LLs has the technical knowhow remaining to do either job. They've canned every linden that goes inworld save for Torley.

 

I agree they should be updated,  but doing that  will assuredly take LL several months to get  organised if and when they decide to do it.   In the meantime, people are creating accounts and, if they've got decent computers and chosen a human avatar, have a pretty good chance of realising LL has given them badly broken content to start off with.   

So while we wait for them to commission some new avatars, I think a bandaid would be no bad idea.   And I'm sure I can explain how to do it to any Linden who needs to know -- I've explained  to enough new residents at the Adult Hub over the last year why they've got deformed feet, after all, and how to fix it.

 

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I don't think that works for the shoes, where you don't want to hide all the foot, but I agree, it's not difficult for LL to fix.   New residents, though, can't be expected to know straight away that's what they should do, nor even assume that LL would deliberately provide them with both broken content and the means to fix it.  

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Obviously I don't know, but I rather suspect most of the content creators who are still using invisiprims without providing alpha layers too are people who've effectively left SL but left their shop and marketplace open.      

While I fully agree it's not LL's responsibility to fix every issue, I do think that removing deprecated and broken content from what they themselves give new residents is LL's  responsibility, particularly since LL clearly thinks the selection of starter avatars is a suffiently important point for new members to devote its first new Torley tutorial to the subject.

 Whose responsibiltiy do you say it is, it if not LL's?

I don't understand what you mean about "Be thankful they give them anything but the av they picked."   If you select a human avatar during the sign-up process, it's pretty good odds that you'll end up with broken feet, whatever you pick.

Just seems to me that it can't be good for the retention process when people log in, see they (and lots of other new people) have shoes that are clearly broken but other people don't.   Some people, of course, are going to investigate the problem and fix it, but I'm thinking that a lot of people are simply going to think, "there's something wrong here, and it can't be anything I've done because I've not touched any settings yet, so it must be my machine that can't render SL properly" and go off and find somewhere else to spend their money online.

 

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Innula Zenovka wrote:.

 Whose responsibiltiy do you say it is, it if not LL's?

I don't understand what you mean about "Be thankful they give them anything but the av they picked."   If you select a human avatar during the sign-up process, it's pretty good odds that you'll end up with broken feet, whatever you pick.

Just seems to me that it can't be good for the retention process when people log in, see they (and lots of other new people) have shoes that are clearly broken but other people don't.   Some people, of course, are going to investigate the problem and fix it, but I'm thinking that a lot of people are simply going to think, "there's something wrong here, and it can't be anything I've done because I've not touched any settings yet, so it must be my machine that can't render SL properly" and go off and find somewhere else to spend their money online.

 

 

As far as i know, all of the outfits and avatars given at creation of an account are made by residents. There are at least a hundred different avatars in the library of each and ever SLer. All made my content creators. Just because someone has not given new boots to LL to replace the old ones does not mean their FREE AVATAR should be removed.

It's not broken content to people who have older computers or don't have Shadows turned on.

I would hope new users would ask someone about it before deciding they are quitting. That's like someone playing a first person shooter and quitting because they don't know how to reload.

Personally I feel LL should have a better orientation area. Perhaps with a few actual staff members to help the new people. Like that will ever happen.

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Drake1 Nightfire wrote:

As far as i know, all of the outfits and avatars given at creation of an account are made by residents. There are at least a hundred different avatars in the library of each and ever SLer. All made my content creators. Just because someone has not given new boots to LL to replace the old ones does not mean their FREE AVATAR should be removed.

It's not broken content to people who have older computers or don't have Shadows turned on.

I would hope new users would ask someone about it before deciding they are quitting. That's like someone playing a first person shooter and quitting because they don't know how to reload.

Personally I feel LL should have a better orientation area. Perhaps with a few actual staff members to help the new people. Like that will ever happen.

 I am not saying they should be removed.  What I am saying is that someone at LL should spend a couple of hours or so -- for that's all it should take -- removing the invisiprims and replacing them with alphas in the 28 (if I counted it right) avatars listed in VWR-29335, which are mostly the human avatars you get offered as defaults when you're creating a new account.   

I don't see that the fact they were made by residents two or three years ago has very much to do with anything; I'm sure the residents concerned wouldn't mind if LL asked them to replace the stuff, and I'm sure they wouldn't mind, either, if LL used their initiative and fixed the stuff anyway.

I'm sorry, but it is broken, as far as I'm concerned, if it looks all wrong in the official viewer at the default settings that LL recommends for your machine -- which, for a lot of people, it does.   That, to my mind, is a pretty good example of broken content.   Certainly, and I know this cos I help out at the Adult Hubs, a lot of new people do find this confusing, and I'd rather have to explain it to them right at the begining, when I'd rather be explaining how to open boxes and walk and TP.

Maybe Torley could make a video about it.   Now he's shown us how to use the default avatars in the first new video, and how to use the marketplace in the second new video, he could. in the third video, consolidate this and  show us how to use what we learned in the second video, to search the marketplace to find some free apha layers to fix the broken avatars he's shown us in the first video.  

That would be useful.

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Innula Zenovka wrote:

Imnotgoing Sideways has a huge free, full perms collection in the marketplace at 

I am sure if someone from LL spent a while going through those they could fix the problematic avatars in an hour or so.

Ah thank you :)  Over the years I've found some great aids for SL at Immy's shop and website.  A "thank you" to Immy as well for providing these.

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Tiffy Vella wrote:


Dillon Levenque wrote:

Wretched. Wretched hive.

Oh, and you dropped an 'i' there in villainy.

 

Edited to get the 'i' in the right place :smileyembarrassed:

Aww...I went to hug you...but can't do that here.

 

 

SLU -- wretched hive of scum, hugs and   villainy!   And lolcats.

On another note,  we now have Torley on the case: http://gyazo.com/54ad913055a2818a32e0e5d4a1421994

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Innula Zenovka wrote:


Tiffy Vella wrote:


Dillon Levenque wrote:

Wretched. Wretched hive.

Oh, and you dropped an 'i' there in villainy.

 

Edited to get the 'i' in the right place :smileyembarrassed:

Aww...I went to hug you...but can't do that here.

 

 

SLU -- wretched hive of scum, hugs and 
  villainy!   And lolcats.

On another note,  we now have Torley on the case: 

 

Well, just to be clear to you and Pussycat and Tiffy (ty for the virtual hug), I wasn't really knocking SLU. I even have an account there although I almost never visit; not enough time.

My issue was simply with the incompleteness of the quote. When quoting The Classics, one should always be complete.:smileywink:

Cool that Torley picked up on your comment, too.

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Ahh..I don't know the entire quote, but just found it nicely amusing. It gave me a smile :)

And yes, this issue really needs ironing out. It's one of those simple things that LL could fix in an hour and could do much for new resident retention and understanding. Glad some people are on the ball :)

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