Was I bullied?

[MissNessy]

I rent on a moderate sim that borders a general sim. I placed my sky house 2,500 meters high. Two days ago a 5 year resident on the General sim puts their sky house exactly at the same height as mine at 223 meters away in draw distance from my house. That resident IMs me and tells me I had better remove those "filthy" nude photos I have on my walls or else she is going to file an abuse report. The photos are only black and white erotic couples photography.

I told her this is a moderate sim it's allowed. She told me I was wrong and that if she is able to see the photos then she can and will report me for broadly offensive content. I told her not to cam into my house then. She said she could cam anywhere she wanted and as far as she wanted. She then told me to either move my house as far away as I could from her or remove the photos. So I moved my house up to the 3,500 meter height. She IMed me thanking me. I felt bullied. Was she right?

[Miserlie]

Why don't you just hide your sim and allow chat outside of it. It is your sim after all.

[Ted McGregor]

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MissNessy wrote:

I felt bullied. Was she right?

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Perhaps. Is this example moderately indicative to how well you play chicken in general with anybody ?

[MissNessy]

Perhaps. Is this example moderately indicative to how well you play chicken in general with anybody ?

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TDD123 wrote:

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MissNessy wrote:

I felt bullied. Was she right?

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Perhaps. Is this example moderately indicative to how well you play chicken in general with anybody ?

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I'm wanting to do what is right. She is a 5 year old resident so I'm assuming she knows more then me. Better safe to do what she is telling me then to get reported. I have it so no one can see avatars on the parcel but residents can see what's inside the house.

Whats with your attitude in thinking your being cute in attempting to put me down?

[Perrie Juran]

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MissNessy wrote:

I rent on a moderate sim that borders a general sim. I placed my sky house 2,500 meters high. Two days ago a 5 year resident on the General sim puts their sky house exactly at the same height as mine at 223 meters away in draw distance from my house. That resident IMs me and tells me I had better remove those "filthy" nude photos I have on my walls or else she is going to file an abuse report. The photos are only black and white erotic couples photography.

I told her this is a moderate sim it's allowed. She told me I was wrong and that if she is able to see the photos then she can and will report me for broadly offensive content. I told her not to cam into my house then. She said she could cam anywhere she wanted and as far as she wanted. She then told me to either move my house as far away as I could from her or remove the photos. So I moved my house up to the 3,500 meter height. She IMed me thanking me. I felt bullied. Was she right?

---

I've never gotten into fisticuffs with someone In World but wow would my sky space be filled with the most obnoxious sky clutter I could conceive of right now.  I've been learning how to make particles and wow would I be having fun!

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

MissNessy wrote: " Was she right?"

Of course not! Why?

1.: You are on a mature sim.

2.: Adult things are allowed in a mature sim, if it is taken indoor. What you did.

Plus, moving a fully kitted out skybox is a pain in the a**.
She could have moved her empty box much easier.

Reminds me of the people buying a house in the approach vector of a busy runway
and then complaining about the noise.

 

[MissNessy]

Why don't you just hide your sim and allow chat outside of it. It is your sim after all.

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Miserlie wrote:

Why don't you just hide your sim and allow chat outside of it. It is your sim after all.

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I don't rent the whole sim I live on a moderate mainland sim a tiny 512 sq. meter parcel that happens to border a General mainland sim.

[Perrie Juran]

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MissNessy wrote:

Perhaps. Is this example moderately indicative to how well you play chicken in general with anybody ?

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TDD123 wrote:

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MissNessy wrote:

I felt bullied. Was she right?

---

Perhaps. Is this example moderately indicative to how well you play chicken in general with anybody ?

---

I'm wanting to do what is right. She is a 5 year old resident so I'm assuming she knows more then me. Better safe to do what she is telling me then to get reported. I have it so no one can see avatars on the parcel but residents can see what's inside the house.

Whats with your attitude in thinking your being cute in attempting to put me down?

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Can understand you being cautious but yes she took advantage of you.

However we get into this crazy grey area where not all Mods understand the rules themselves.

There have been a few situations where people had to file an  appeal because the first responder to the AR was a little heavy handed.

[MissNessy]

Plus, moving a fully kitted out sky box is a pain in the a**.
She could have moved her empty box much easier.

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Jadeclaw Denfu wrote:

MissNessy wrote: " Was she right?"

Of course not! Why?

1.: You are on a mature sim.

2.: Adult things are allowed in a mature sim, if it is taken indoor. What you did.

Plus, moving a fully kitted out sky box is a pain in the a**.

She could have moved her empty box much easier.

Reminds me of the people buying a house in the approach vector of a busy runway

and then complaining about the noise.

 

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I only have a square box and a sofa in it so far. So was no biggie to move it up. I could have argued back and forth with her about it but easier to move up for now and be safe from being reported. Until I know who is right and wrong I will remain at the height I moved it. But no one is giving me any straight answers. Seems everyone is knocking me down on how I handled it. =/

[Jadeclaw Denfu]

Well, here in Germany, we have an old saying:
"Der Klügere gibt nach." (the smarter one relents.)
And when moving the box is easy, just letting the issue go is the smarter solution.

 

 

[Ted McGregor]

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MissNessy wrote:

Whats with your attitude in thinking your being cute in attempting to put me down?

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You wonder(ed) wether you are bullied.

 

 

 

 

You shouldn't be intimidated by attitude or age that easily. ...

 

 

 

 

[Dillon Levenque]

While it does sound to me as though your neighbor is an absolute jerk, she's probably correct about the pictures. The official land rating page says this:

"The Adult designation applies to Second Life regions that host, conduct, or display content that is sexually explicit, intensely violent, or depicts illicit drug use.  A region must be designated Adult if it hosts, advertises, or publicly promotes:

• Representations of intensely violent acts, for example depicting death, torture, dismemberment or other severe bodily harm, whether or not photo-realistic (meaning that images either are or cannot be distinguished from a photograph).
• Photo-realistic nudity.
• Expressly sexually themed content, spaces or activities, whether or not photo-realistic. We broadly define what is "sexually themed" to include any sexually oriented activities and conduct."

From your description, the images would seem to fall into one or the other or perhaps both of the bolded categories, thus are permitted only on land rated Adult.

The ratings say nothing about visibility: they discuss purely what is allowed to be there. So, if you'd have done what I'd have been tempted to do (tell her to go straight to Hell in a handbasket) you probably would have been AR'd and possibly LL would require you to take down the images. Note that she could still do that, even though you've moved, so as tempting as Perrie's suggestion is, might not be worth the trouble.

[Miserlie]

My Fault, your land, i only own a 1500sqm (i think) and i live alone, you can edit your settings regardless.

Im speaking for land renters from residents though, im not sure what linden labs have set.

[Melita Magic]

If it were at ground level and you put up a pornographic painting or photo in front of your window, aimed at your neighbor's land, then I'd say they had a case to ask you to please do something about it. The TOS would not require you to but I would say a good neighbor would try not to do something like that to begin with. I wouldn't.

But if we are talking about a skybox, you were there first, and she has to cam in to see them, then I would have just muted them and forgotten about it.

I don't know if it was bullying or not; but it was certainly entitled behavior and rude.

[Melita Magic]

I hadn't read Dillon's post yet when I posted. I didn't know the TOS was that strict even about things put within someone's home. I thought the realistic depictions of nudity or sex had to be on public display to be considered against TOS anywhere but adult land.

Really difficult though, OP, for any of us to chime in, without having seen the pictures in question.

I'll say this, though. I don't make a habit of 'camming around' into other people's homes, espcially almost 250 meters away in the sky. It isn't as if your neighbor would accidentally run across your Venus de Milo while landscaping.

[Dillon Levenque]

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Melita Magic wrote:

I hadn't read Dillon's post yet when I posted. I didn't know the TOS was that strict even about things put within someone's home. I thought the realistic depictions of nudity or sex had to be on public display to be considered against TOS anywhere but adult land.

Really difficult though, OP, for any of us to chime in, without having seen the pictures in question.

I'll say this, though. I don't make a habit of 'camming around' into other people's homes, espcially almost 250 meters away in the sky. It isn't as if your neighbor would accidentally run across your Venus de Milo while landscaping.

---

 

I tried to make it clear that I thought the neighbor's complaint was totally uncalled for; hopefully that came across. The problem for the OP is that a strict adherence to the rating system would (if the assumption about the pictures is correct) find her at fault, so once presented with the complaint she would either have to fight it on principle (and probably lose) or just move and be done with it.

It's a shame that even in a place like Second Life there are moral police snooping around to make sure we mind our manners. This is one problem I completely blame on Linden Lab. They wanted to buff up their image, fine. But the way they chose to do it defies all logic, it seems to me.

I think most people agree there should be areas of the grid that are set aside as G or PG or whatever you want to call it that are totally off limits for adult behavior of any kind. Places that Grandmas and kids can go. Places you would take your own Grandma or your kids, if you had any. But the rest should be....whatever we want. We are, after all, grownups. If we see something not to our taste all we need do is stop looking.

There was a recent thread in another section of the forum about sailing topless recently. Sounded like kind of a cute idea. If the area chosen for sailing is in Moderate, that would technically be against the rules. How silly is that?

[Hugsy Penguin]

Were you bullied? - Yes

Was she right? - Depends on what part of the TOS you read.  The TOS links to Maturity Ratings which is what Dillon was quoting and that makes it seem likes she's right.  However, the Maturity Ratings link to the Adult Content FAQ which includes this:

 

What does "behind closed doors" mean?

Adult activity on Moderate land must be conducted "behind closed doors," meaning that you must make every reasonable effort to ensure that the parcel is private. This means:

• Allow only a group or specific individuals access to the parcel. If it is group-access only, the group must not be freely open to join.
• Hide avatars (turn off avatar visibility) for the parcel.
• Enclose the area behind walls or other visual barriers.

 

That makes it seem like she's in the wrong.

Did you handle it the wrong way? - It was easy for you to move your skybox and she hasn't given you any more grief since the move.  I'd say while you shouldn't have had to move your skybox you probably defused the situation the quickest and easiest way and it's hard to argue with that.

edit: grammar fix.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

Is simple nudity without sex Adult?

Depending on context, nudity may not require an Adult rating. For example all of the following could be rated Moderate:

• A nude beach without sexual activity.
• Skin vendors showing a nude skin to display the product.
• Nude art that is not sexual.
• Strip clubs that do not use adult words in search or host sex furniture.

Depending on the context, exposed genitalia may not be considered Adult. For example:

• Hanging out at a nude beach would be fine.
• Walking around pants-less on the mainland could be inappropriate.

Non-sexualized depictions of nudity are Moderate NOT Adult.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Adult_Content_FAQ#Is_simple_nudity_without_sex_Adult.3F

[Dillon Levenque]

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Hugsy Penguin wrote:

 

What does "behind closed doors" mean?

Adult activity on Moderate land must be conducted "behind closed doors," meaning that you must make every reasonable effort to ensure that the parcel is private. This means:

• Allow only a group or specific individuals access to the parcel. If it is group-access only, the group must
  not
  be freely open to join.
• Hide avatars (turn off avatar visibility) for the parcel.
• Enclose the area behind walls or other visual barriers.

 

---

 

Ah. I didn't look there, just at the ratings page. That at least makes a little more sense, and in the case of pictures on interior walls (regardless of the content of said pictures) I would think the 'Enclose the area behind walls or other visual barriers' section means the OP was meeting all requirements.

I still say there should be only two classifications: Adult and G/PG/NotAdult/Whatever.

[Hugsy Penguin]

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Dillon Levenque wrote:

I still say there should be only two classifications: Adult and G/PG/NotAdult/Whatever.

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I disagree with this.

I think there should be G/PG for a Disney-like safe area for kids and grannies.

I think there should be A for wide-open, in-your-face, near-anything-goes adult/pornographic content.

And, I think there should be M for the middle ground between the two.  In M land you can use profane language, have erotic art and other content indoors, and even have a sex-bed indoors.  For most people though, this would not be the main reason for being in SL.  So this is for people who don't mind sexual content at all but just don't want to be flanked on all sides by sex shops and clubs.

 

[Amethyst Jetaime]

Yes, you were definitly bullied. She had 4096m of sky to put her skybox in, so why did she put it next to yours other than to harrass you.  IMO you were safe as long as the artwork was inside and didn't explicitely depict sex.

I would have simply told her no and also told her you were going to IM her for harrassing you if she continues to bother you. Then mute and ban her.  I would also have put a giant prim or prims on my property line to act as a visual fence that was transparent on all sides except for the side facing her, so she couldn't 'accidently' see something through your windows.

[Syo Emerald]

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Jadeclaw Denfu wrote:

Well, here in Germany, we have an old saying:

"Der Klügere gibt nach." (the smarter one relents.)

And when moving the box is easy, just letting the issue go is the smarter solution.

 

 

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"Da wo der klügere nachgibt, beginnt die Herrschaft der dummen."

 

Thats all I have to say to this kind of advise. She is wrong, dumb and clearly seeks a fight. Changing anything to her will is only going to encourage her fantasy about ruleling over peoples life if she feels like doing so.

Bullies don't stop just because you give them what they want.

If she doesn't want to see privat things she should keep her eyes elsewhere.

[Phil Deakins]

Yes you were bullied. As has been made clear in this thread, you didn't have to move or take the pictures down.

If you don't mind a little squabble, I'd move your skybox back to where it was and put the pictures up again. If she complains again, I'd do what someone suggested and put a huge prim between you, that is transparent on all side except the side facing her. And I wouldn't make the side facing her anything pleasant - not unpleasant but not a nice scene. Perhaps just black would do nicely. And I'd do that because she's probably feeling smug about bullying you into submission.

[Marigold Devin]

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MissNessy wrote:

 

 

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I'm wanting to do what is right. She is a 5 year old resident so I'm assuming she knows more then me. Better safe to do what she is telling me then to get reported. I have it so no one can see avatars on the parcel but residents can see what's inside the house.

Whats with your attitude in thinking your being cute in attempting to put me down?

---

Hello, MissNessy. I just need to point something out to you.  Just because someone has been in world for five years, or longer than yourself, it does not necessarily mean they know everything, or are automatically right.

If your skybox was there first, if you have content that adheres to the G, M, A ratings as set out in the Community Standards/Terms of Service documentation, then you have no reason to move the skybox or the contents, and in the future I would suggest simply taking on board what someone says, but do not rush to respond. Instead, seek, as you have done here, advice, and read the Terms of Service and Community Standards to be fully conversant with it. 

Also, as you have discovered already in this thread, there are certain people on the forums who will pick up on your seeming naivety.  They do not know it all either, and are covering up for their own insecurities.  The best action you can take in these cases is inaction. Block/mute/ignore. 

I wish you a happier future in your Second Life.  Most people are fabulous, considerate and fun. You have just been a little unlucky to encounter some people who are not.

[Marigold Devin]

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Jadeclaw Denfu wrote:

MissNessy wrote: " Was she right?"

Of course not! Why?

1.: You are on a mature sim.

2.: Adult things are allowed in a mature sim, if it is taken indoor. What you did.

Plus, moving a fully kitted out skybox is a pain in the a**.

She could have moved her empty box much easier.

Reminds me of the people buying a house in the approach vector of a busy runway

and then complaining about the noise.

 

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This made me smile wryly, thinking about some people who moved into a town where I lived, bought a cute little cottage on Church Street, and then began a campaign to get the church bells quietened, saying they disturbed the peace!

There's nowt so queer as folks. :matte-motes-not-entertained: