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Maestro Linden

Deploys for the week of 2013-01-21

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i have tried it

maximum Bandwith was 1500, drawdistance 128m

i changed it to

Bandwith 400, drawdistance 32m

relogging

i rezzed as cloud and my meshhouse didnt rezzed, still bad moving, stucked and long flyings without any control, like the old simborder crossing, so i cleared my cache and relloged again

now drawings was ok, my house appeared, my AV too, but still this 'rubberbanding' ?...one tick at an arrowkey and i start a long fly without control, switching controls like AO....works only sometimes

result: no changes

i only wonder how fast my inventory is loading, usually its roundabout 1 hour, now its 15-20 mins

i hopped this night again from sim to sim, everything ok, also a LeTigre, then i hit a Magnum, i was stucked and every moving ends in a long long moving without any control

 

You are at 214,658.0, 277,425.0, 53.6 in Sunny Isles located at sim9855.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.45.189:13001)
Second Life RC Magnum 13.01.17.269162
Error fetching server release notes URL.

CPU: Intel® Core i5-2500K CPU @ 3.30GHz (3310.85 MHz)
Memory: 8174 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 64-bit Service Pack 1 (Build 7601)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce GTX 560 Ti/PCIe/SSE2

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 9.18.0013.1090
OpenGL Version: 4.2.0

RestrainedLove API: RLV v2.7.0 / RLVa v1.4.7a
libcurl Version: libcurl/7.21.1 OpenSSL/1.0.0d zlib/1.2.5 c-ares/1.7.1
J2C Decoder Version: KDU
Audio Driver Version: FMOD version 3.750000
Qt Webkit Version: 4.7.1 (version number hard-coded)
Voice Server Version: Not Connected
Settings mode: Firestorm
Viewer Skin: firestorm (grey)
Font Used: Deja Vu (96)
Draw distance: 32
Bandwidth: 400
LOD factor: 2
Built with MSVC version 1600
Packets Lost: 214/10,183 (2.1%)

 

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Ardy not sure if this helps at all but i checked the route to my sim host on two seperate networks in two seperate locations and here was my results. If it doesnt help any just ignore me lol.

Comcast ISP: 

  3    14 ms    16 ms    14 ms  te-2-7-0-5-ar01.area4.il.chicago.comcast.net [68
.87.230.121]
  4    15 ms    23 ms    23 ms  he-3-8-0-0-cr01.350ecermak.il.ibone.comcast.net
[68.86.90.49]
  5    16 ms    23 ms    23 ms  he-1-3-0-0-cr01.chicago.il.ibone.comcast.net [68
.86.88.29]
  6    31 ms    32 ms    31 ms  xe-8-2-0.edge1.Chicago2.Level3.net [4.71.248.65]

  7    73 ms    75 ms    74 ms  4.69.158.238
  8    72 ms    71 ms    71 ms  ae-14-14.ebr1.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.69.151.118]

  9    71 ms    71 ms    72 ms  ae-1-8.bar1.Phoenix1.Level3.net [4.69.133.29]
 10    70 ms    71 ms    71 ms  ae-5-5.car1.Phoenix1.Level3.net [4.69.148.117]
 11    76 ms    75 ms    76 ms  LINDEN-RESE.car1.Phoenix1.Level3.net [4.53.104.1
4]
 12    77 ms    77 ms    81 ms  sw-core0-84.phx.lindenlab.com [216.82.7.138]
 13    76 ms    76 ms    76 ms  sim8945.agni.lindenlab.com [216.82.41.121]

Trace complete.


Cogent ISP:

  3    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  abovenet.ord03.atlas.cogentco.com [154.54.10.198
]
  4    <1 ms    <1 ms    <1 ms  xe-4-2-0.cr2.ord2.us.above.net [64.125.22.213]
  5    26 ms    25 ms    25 ms  xe-2-0-0.cr2.dfw2.us.above.net [64.125.25.138]
  6    32 ms    31 ms    30 ms  xe-1-2-0.cr2.iah1.us.above.net [64.125.26.134]
  7    65 ms    66 ms    65 ms  xe-0-1-0.mpr4.phx2.us.above.net [64.125.28.73]
  8    65 ms    64 ms    65 ms  xe-1-0-0.mpr3.phx2.us.above.net [64.125.27.97]
  9    65 ms    65 ms    65 ms  64.124.161.254.allocated.above.net [64.124.161.2
54]
 10    69 ms    69 ms    67 ms  sw-core0-83.phx.lindenlab.com [216.82.7.226]
 11    65 ms    65 ms    65 ms  sim8945.agni.lindenlab.com [216.82.41.121]

Trace complete.

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Andrew, here is my take on it. Please take it with a grain of salt.

What I have read here seems to indicate that all the resends being sent to bots are not limited to bots, it seems some normal residents are affected also.

My theory is that the residents having all the problems with duplicated chat, moving, packet loss, etc. are affected by this resend bug. So, in effect their bandwidth is being clogged with all the resends.

If I am correct, then once the "bot resend bug" is isolated and fixed then these other network related problems will go away also.

This should be easy enough to check. All we need is one of the affected residents to monitor their bandwidth usage after TP'ing into a quiet Magnum sim. If my theory is correct, then they will start seeing heavy network usage within 2 minutes of landing.

 

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Andrew Linden wrote:

Sorry Jessica, I didn't mean "hack" in any pejorative way.  I meant it as a "solution to a problem using unexpected methods or tools" -- I'm definitely not against such "hacks", and I was quite intrigued with this TPV innovation when I heard about it years ago. For some people "hack" has a negative connotation, so perhaps a better word would be "workaround" since the expanding draw distance feature is to reduce a "bug" that is external to the viewer, namely the poor near-to-far sorting by the server.

Thank you Andrew, workaround is actually a very good descriptor for it instead of 'feature' really.

 

That's an interesting theory regarding bandwidth. It is very frequent that we have users coming to us for support for various issues and quite often we find they have their bandwidth turned up high. Having users drop their bandwidth down to more reasonable settings like around 500 or sometimes even less clears up a lot of issues. More is not always better but users seem to instinctively feel it is. We default our bandwidth at 500 because of this and teach a class where we cover the negative impacts of higher bandwidth settings. There is some dissention among my team on this topic however, as some of my developers have tried investigating the mysterious world of bandwidth and each come up with different results and theories. Some folks can crank bandwidth all the way up without an issue even on slower network connections while others on high speed networks have to keep it below 500.

 

It was suggested by one of my support people that our progressive draw distance may actually be interfering with your interest list work, or that it would degrade the interest list solutions for Firestorm users. We will be happy to remove progressive draw distance if you get interest list sorting worked out!

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On the question of bandwidth settings.

Over the 5 years I have been a resident in SL, I have made great changes to my computing equipment, not only with pc and its components but, gradually, with my broadband.  When I became a resident, decent speed broadband was enough and 500 bandwidth was an acceptable setting although things would usually rez so slowly (noteably inworld when store owners upload large, high quality images for vendors when much smaller is actually better).  That aside, over the years my broadband speed I have had increased in stages and I also increased my bandwidth to 1500.  That gave me much faster rezzing times inworld, and not just for merchant vendors but for everything.  I experienced no lag, I experienced no problems and I feel I attained greater stability.  But that is only my experience and I appear to have been exceptionally lucky - although I still remember my first 6 months when my user experience was quite poor until I began upgrading my equipment.


Your mention here of experimenting with a reduction in bandwidth to 500, and taking Jessica's explanation into account also since it was so nicely explained for ordinary people to understand.  On Saturday I attempted to assist a resident who was experiencing the issue of avatars and some prims remaining invisible on the affected sims.  I know that he has a high end spec computer and high speed broadband.  I know he has had no issue with his inworld experience until this last week.  We experimented with his reducing his bandwidth to 500, reducing his draw distance, changing from Firestorm to the official LL viewer, doing a clean re-install of Firestorm (which he did correctly).  It had absolutely no affect on his user experience.  Reducing draw distance, reducing bandwidth, did nothing at all other than degrade the user experience because what little he could previously see clearly was now rezzing too slowly for him to resume any ingame activity.

I accept that this is just one avatar, but it is one who is a land owner, has high spec components, fast cable broadband connection.  Reducing DD and bandwidth, together and in isolation, simply further degraded the user experience and given that this only began last week, it certainly cannot be implied that the user may be at fault here.  If there was nothing wrong at the start of last week but something drastic changed by mid-week, the finger clearly points at an error beyond the individual user. 

Please also remember that many people who are following this thread and, indeed, read through these forums, might be intelligent human beings sat at a keyboard but I should imagine many of us have little idea of what you (and some others) are talking about.  I wonder if it might be possible, therefore, if an explanation in simple terms that mortals can understand could be apended to the more clinical descriptions and suggestions that are given.  We all need to comprehend what is being said in order for adequate responses to be made.

 

 

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Jessica, the bandwidth is an excuse, i made put it at 500 at my friend from the first moment, there is not a problem of Firestorm Phoenix, Sl viever, Kokua, Singularity etc... we was try all, the problem is only for some avatars (no bot, i mean person so it's unaceptable) and only on Magnum server after the "Magnum is getting the interest list improvement project.".... This is a problem of the Lienden Lab and i hope they sort it firt to put this news on the other servers or a lot of persons will be unable to stay on SL. I ask at the Linden again to sort this problem for the residents, we spend money for a land and then we can't use it cause a bug in the server (because is a fault in the server we all have understand that)? I'm waiting a reply from day but i see they talk only of bots, can the resident have a bit of attention please? Thanks.

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nelikb wrote:

When will you fix this problem???:matte-motes-frown:

Nelikb, currently progressive draw distance works better than the server side interest list fixes, so it is not a problem. However when LL get the interest list improvements in place and if/when it works better than our progressive draw distance then we will disable the work around and use the linden fix. Once LL has the interest list working correctly there will be no need for progressive draw distance and as a side note, if you are on firestorm you can disable it in preferences, however it is off by default so if you've not turned it on you do not have it on.

 

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I wanted to test Jessica's suggestion regarding the progressive draw distance, see if it is off as in default and then switch it on to see if that could actually make a difference.  However, when I contacted the one avatar I knew was always affected by this, his sims had today been moved, at his request, to a different server running version 12 and not 13.  As soon as that happened, he and the other avatars who use those sims and complained about slow rezzing of prims and invisible avatars, immediately had their user experience returned to normal.  All prims rezzed, all avatars were visible.

Suggestion... let us forget all this rubbish about packet loss, high bandwidth, poor internet connection and the whole range of technical things that has been put forward in this thread, let us see a hand raised in the air to say, Sorry, we got something wrong, version 13 is at fault, we will roll back and start over.

This is not a viewer problem, it is not a user problem, it is clearly an LL problem that, it seems, can be resolved very simply, as already witnessed.

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Second Life 3.4.4 (268864) Jan 10 2013 04:16:34 (Second Life Release)
Release Notes

You are at 247,362.0, 310,199.0, 1,009.6 in Buttercup Island located at sim8020.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.37.87:13002)
Second Life RC Magnum 13.01.17.269162
Error fetching server release notes URL.

CPU: AMD Athlon II X2 270 Processor (3415.78 MHz)
Memory: 3072 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows 7 32-bit Service Pack 1 (Build 7601)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce 9800 GT/PCIe/SSE2/3DNOW!

Windows Graphics Driver Version: 9.18.0013.0697
OpenGL Version: 3.3.0

libcurl Version: libcurl/7.21.1 OpenSSL/0.9.8q zlib/1.2.5 c-ares/1.7.1
J2C Decoder Version: KDU v7.0
Audio Driver Version: FMOD version 3.750000
Qt Webkit Version: 4.7.1 (version number hard-coded)
Voice Server Version: Vivox 3.2.0002.10426

Built with MSVC version 1600
Packets Lost: 103/11,934 (0.9%)

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I still can't enter magnum sims , because i freeze and can't move anythere for clearification , i have this on all viewers so it's not a Firestorm problem.

 

and i have a edition to these problems if i try to teleport from the magnum sim to another a few second after i landed on the other sim a secondlife teleport starts O_o

 

hope the next server role will fix it again or repair the interets list bugs.

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Shayne Hesten wrote:

Suggestion... let us forget all this rubbish about packet loss, high bandwidth, poor internet connection and the whole range of technical things that has been put forward in this thread, let us see a hand raised in the air to say, Sorry, we got something wrong, version 13 is at fault, we will roll back and start over.

This is not a viewer problem, it is not a user problem, it is clearly an LL problem that, it seems, can be resolved very simply, as already witnessed.


You're missing the point here.

They are trying to find what is triggering this bug for certain Residents and not for others. All those affected must have something in common - question is, what is it? Certain settings in their viewer, certain type of router?  If we can find what that commonality is, it may help to point to the cause of the bug.

For those affected by this problem on Magnum regions, it is not intermittant. They can reproduce it 100% on any Magnum region and only on Magnum regions.

For those unaffected, as far as I know, no one has been able to find a way to reproduce it at their end yet.

For those of you having this problem and have a laptop, if you take your laptop round to a RL friends and test on their connection, can you still reproduce it?

 

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nelikb wrote:

For me not working  good i still have crash, slow loading, not see peoples,objects and i can't tp. Help me!!!!

 

Nelikb,

Our support can help you with the problems that are specific to the Firestorm Viewer however the issues in this thread have been determined not to be firestorm specific. Crashing however is not related to this and Support can very likely help you with that as well as possibly TP issues. Please see http://wiki.phoenixviewer.com/getting_help for the various ways you can contact our support team and make that effort. We'll be happy to help anyway we can.

Jess.

 

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I might have agreed with you there a few days ago Whirly but following this thread and also discussing it with affected residents, the following has become clear...

1 - they are in different geographical locations in different countries in Europe (ok, there is a link, Europe, unless anyone knows of this affecting other parts of the world)

2 - they have tried different third party viewers plus the official LL viewer, including cleanly re-installing each time (so no link with possible viewer conflict)

3 - they are using different ISPs (probably obvious since they are in different countries), different cable types, different modems/routers

4 - they have different broadband speeds

5 - they have experimented as suggested (several prior to the suggestion) with reducing draw distance and bandwidth settings

6 - none of them are affected when they are on a sim which is not running version 13 on the Magnum server

7 - when the sims of one affected landowner were moved to a version 12, the issue disappeared instantly for him and all other affected residents who visit those sims

Given the number of people who are affected, there appears to be a growing number of possible permutations to check, experiment with and, possible, determine a root cause.  I do appreciate that because this issue only affects certain residents and not all, then a potential common denominator amongst them might point to a solution to resolve the issue for them.  I am sure others will be able to add to my short list above and, unless there are residents in other parts of the world experiencing this issue (please, it could help if you give your country if you do not mind revealing it), I see at the moment only some of the countries in Europe affected.

Andrew said above that it was possible one server was at issue here and if there is a server that deals with Europe, perhaps that could be looked at. 

At present, the only solution that I have heard is when sims were moved from version 13 (European based land owner).

 

Edit to take account of the post directly following this one - it appears that for some residents a connection is being shown with their internet connection or ISP.  Although the geographical location of that resident is as yet unknown.  If it helps, I do know that the residents I have personally come across with this issue are in UK, Belgium and all others in Germany.

 

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Whirly Fizzle wrote:

For those of you having this problem and have a laptop, if you take your laptop round to a RL friends and test on their connection, can you still reproduce it?


And if I can add to that request: If anyone affected who has bandwidth monitoring software could go to a Magnum region, with no other avatars and draw distance set to minimum, and compare the background bandwidth being used (after a couple minutes settling time) to that of a non-Magnum region under the same conditions?

 

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Hello i have the matters in flamerider under letigre server....when i log in my land my avatar dont appear...nothing rez correctly...and when i try to tp me somewhere my viewer crash .....and i have no access to my land options.....unfortunately the other avatars dont have the same matters when they come in my location

 

 

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OK

Now I do not pretend to know what has gone wrong, but I am another user from the UK, using Virgin media cable, good connection, good computer.

I had some local issues which VM sorted eventually.  Now despite connecting to SL on my Home sim (Woods of Heaven, sim no. 9030 LeTigre RC).  I get disconnected every TP.  I simply cannot TP anywhere in SL!

I have never encountered anything like this before.  My bandwidth on my Firestorm Viewer is set to a conservative 1000kbps, but I cannot TP.

Now I found connection to the Dallas site extremely slow, when measured using speedtest.net, but that site now seems to show connection issues as well.

What is going on?

Reading that last post I don't have quite the same issue with avatars not appearing, but otherwise my issues are identical.

Is this issue restricted to some subset of European users?

 

 

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Whirly

Is there an in-world means of testing (script or whatnot)? 

I have just whizzed around a couple of Magnum sims changing my bandwidth from my normal 500 to 1000kbps and experienced no issue.  I saw the Bandwidth meter briefly zoom up when looking around stores with a shed load of vendors and textures as Andrew said 'should' happen.  Cleared cache and relogged back into the region. Progressive draw distance is not used.

 

Sim I was in was:

You are at 293,268.0, 278,350.0, 65.5 in Ardingly located at sim7597.agni.lindenlab.com (216.82.36.205:12035)
Second Life RC Magnum 13.01.17.269162

 

I'm in Europe and aside from the issue I mentioned near the beginning of this thread I don't think I'm affected but would like to help

Black

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Heya Andrew et all,

Bit sketchy on details I know, but incase useful...

One of the Firestorm support teams partners was suffering from the Magnum issue.
He could reproduce on both his main & alt account and on both his computers connected to the same home network - which was an ethernet openreach router.

He switched ISP today back to BT fibre. He is using the same openreach router but in addition now has a new BT Homehub (http://www.productsandservices.bt.com/products/broadband/wireless-hub-router).
He can no longer reproduce the Magnum bug using the same 2 computers & accounts.

So, in his case it was connection related in some way, even though he had no issues at all on non Magnum regions.

 

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I belive I've found the problem.  There is a bug in our size calculation of the ObjectUpdate message that is causing us to send packets that are larger than an ethernet MTU (1500 bytes).  So the current theory is that most network connections can handle such packets by breaking them up into smaller packets that fit their protocol and then reassemling them on the other side, however some connections must fail to do this.

We're going to update some regions for test on the beta grid (aditi) with the new code.  I believe Morris and Ahern will be included in this set.

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As Andrew just posted, we have a potential fix for this problem on Aditi (the Beta grid), with version DRTSIM-197 13.01.28.269574.  Morris on Aditi are running this new code.

We're having trouble triggering the network issues in-house, so we could use some feedback about whether the problem is really fixed.  If you are affected by this bug, on RC Magnum,  could you please login to Aditi and visit Morris to verify that the problems are fixed for you there?   Here is a SLURL for that location: secondlife://Aditi/secondlife/Morris/20/116/51

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