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Oskar Linden

Deploys for the week of 2012-08-06

74 posts in this topic


MB Robonaught wrote:

Check out
 it covers this problem I think

Whether that was the problem or not I don't know.  My prim count is OK after putting things back out.

But what is frustrating now is that it appears the SIM went off line for a minute or two yesterday (Thursday).  It was not a restart as far as I can see.  I simply found myself 'disconnected' from SL.  At first I thought it was my connection.  But when I logged back in a few modifications I had made just before I found myself disconnected had not "took" and a no copy building I had just rezzed was gone, and apparently now it appears that it is gone for good. 

A little later on when I got to talk to my Landlady she told me she had seen the region off line for a couple of minutes.

Sometimes I feel bad for Oskar.  I wonder if he knew that listening to all our aggravations was part of the job description when he took the job.

 

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llPlaySound doesn't work on BlueSteel (llLoopSound and llTriggerSound works fine)

Hopefully that's NOT a future feature...

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I've been keeping a close eye on my LeTigre sim (Borgbeef) since Pathfinding came to it. And Whenever there's 3-4 avatars in the sim, I'm seeing *huge* spikes in Agent Time. By Huge I mean spikes into the 200-400 ms range (and recall, frame time is only 23 ms max).

Of course this completely freezes the sim for a few seconds. I really can't figure out what causes it.  Also being LeTigre, there's some mysterious project running on it that LL won't discuss, so I don't know if that's the cause or if it's the Havok/Pathfinding.  I just know it never happened until after this wednesday's roll. The sim is lightly loaded with 18ms of free time, so there's just no real reason I can see for this to be happening.

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Darien Caldwell wrote:

I've been keeping a close eye on my LeTigre sim (Borgbeef) since Pathfinding came to it. And Whenever there's 3-4 avatars in the sim, I'm seeing *huge* spikes in Agent Time. By Huge I mean spikes into the 200-400 ms range (and recall, frame time is only 23 ms max).

Of course this completely freezes the sim for a few seconds. I really can't figure out what causes it.  Also being LeTigre, there's some mysterious project running on it that LL won't discuss, so I don't know if that's the cause or if it's the Havok/Pathfinding.  I just know it never happened until after this wednesday's roll. The sim is lightly loaded with 18ms of free time, so there's just no real reason I can see for this to be happening.

Very interesting.  This stuff gets technically over my head but it makes me wonder if there isn't something similar going on with Blue Steel.  Three days in a row now I have lost 'No Copy" objects after rezzing them.

(however, I do not wish to post my home location)

 

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Following on from observations made by Dari Caldwell and Perrie Juran I had this experience today while sailing on Blake Sea:

I will paste the convo I had with Support:

ANother Scout: Thank you for contacting Linden Lab Support. My name is ANother. I do apologize for any issues that you are experiencing. Please be patient as I might have multiple chats. I will be with you shortly.
You: I need to report an issue with a sim in SecondLife 

ANother Scout: Hello Ayesha.
You: The sim in question is Mainbrace, in Blake Sea
ANother Scout: Ayesha, are you not able to access the region?
You: It appears to have been set to disallow object entry
You: It is "Protected Land" - Linden Owned
ANother Scout: Ok, I do apologize. Let me take a look at the region for you.
You: I can give you a copy of a message I received...one moment
ANother Scout: sure
You: : [08:52] Second Life: Can't move object 'MLCC Loonetta 31 #nutmeg2' to { 16, 161.409, 21.0111 } in region Blake Sea - Mainbrace because your objects are not allowed on this parcel.
ANother Scout: Ok, that might be another issue all together.
You: It might, other than we were attempting to sail into the sim
You: Mainbrace is Bluesteel RC
ANother Scout: Ayesha, I am going to restart the region to see if that will resolve the issue for you.
ANother Scout: Do you have any other questions that I can answer for you today?
You: No that is my main concern...that sim is in a very pivotal part of Blake Sea for Sailors
You: Thankyou ANother
ANother Scout: Yes, and its been restarted. It may take about 20 minutes or so to fully come back online.
You: OK I will try again later.  Thankyou for your assistance, ANother.  Goodbye

Obviously I have changed the support operator's name!

But an issue like this...on a Linden Sim...oh dear.  But...Bluesteel?  BTW the Loonetta 31 is a Mesh craft, and had been crossing sim boundaries with no issues for about an hour prior to this, mostly around Sailors' Cove.  I have to say that the Blake Sea crossings were much rougher!

 

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Some the roll-out, the best figures I have had for region-crossing have been around a 10% crash rate. Some are effectively instant, some are the extreme rubber-banding where you cross from Region A to Region B, and show out-of-range coordinates in Region A until you hit the next Region boundary, whereupon you are logged out of SL if you are lucky.

Other post-roll-out problems have included difficulties in rezzing objects, which seems to happen mostly in busy regions. That is, maybe a dozen AVs present, far fewer than I would normally associate with such behavior.

At times SL systems are trying to send very large amounts of data, using significantly more bandwidth than I have set as a limit in-viewer. This is maxing out my connection and showing high rates of dropped packets.

The timing leaves me wondering what else could be the cause besides the Pathfinding rollout. But the record shows that several parts of the Linden Labs operation routinely fail to tell customers that anything is wrong. Is there something else happening?

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WolfBaginski Bearsfoot wrote:

...

At times SL systems are trying to send very large amounts of data, using significantly more bandwidth than I have set as a limit in-viewer. This is maxing out my connection and showing high rates of dropped packets.

...

There is a major network bug spaming the pipeline: https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-8124

 

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Thanks for the link.

Since it's the weekend I reckon we're stuck with this for (checks time) another thirty hours, minimum, and we're on the wrong side of the weekly release cycle. Is there going to be time to fix the problem before the next scheduled roll-out (So delay the roll-out. If it's a choice between a day of hassles and a week, I'll take the day.)

My layman's summary of the JIRA is that at least one version of the Sim Code is spewing out superfluous messages to any AV that is close enough to see into them. I've no idea from the JIRA what the message is even for, but it helps to minimise your draw distance, so you're less likely to "see" into an offending region.

 

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So that's what is happening.

I thought network monitoring was suposed to pick up such patterns.

Obviously, not at Linden Labs.

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Let us hope that this weeks restarts represent an honest attempt on LLs part to rectify the problems caused by last weeks fiasco, as anything less, or another mad adventure that only makes these problems worse may well drive massive numbrs of people from sl and leave it without the support it needs to survive, if in fact that support is there now.  While wishing for for impossible of improbably things, it would also be good if the leaders of LL (Phil Linen, the CEO, and Head of Engineering would speak to this problem and assure us that LL is in fact committed to fixing it and not continuing with more innovations that will only make things worse.  There is a crying need for openess, leadership, and transparency on LLs part at this time and we have so far seen little more than silences, which makes people wonder if the leadership of LL is aware of this problem or if they are care.

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One thing that would be a great way to start would be when someone has just spent 30 hours as a volunteer testing and gathering information they not be treated as a dumbass during the Linden Lab meetings. And the way my friend and I were just blown off with such timeless quotes as "This is not the place to bring that up"(findings of pathfinder glitches at the path finder meeting" and the ever popular flat out "I don't believe you" was what I would call rude. And yes the proper JIRA's were already filled out but that's not the point. Point is I have two reasons to help attempt to make things better in SL. One I love playing SL and second I make my living from my business in SL. I've been programming the better part of 26 years for everything from manufacturing robots to automotive ECIV systems to autonomous robots so I think even if my information is not used a little thanks for the effort goes a long way further then the above quotes.

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Lydia

If you are going to continue ranting, at least get your facts right.  Last time I checked Philip Rosedale (LinDen) was not CEO, it was Rod Humble (maybe there's been a change since Bob Komin left?).

For once you are right; SL is in a right puddle and nearly all of the mess is due to untidy coding and function revertion.  This is a symptom of overbearing and insensitive control from "on high".

The latest FUBAR has resulted in bandwidth issues that are causing some people to exceed their allotted network useage and these folk are incurring REAL financial penalties as a result of a botched job by Linden Lab.  This is a whole new ballgame and puts LL in a very dangerous liability situation.

There needs to be some serious thought given to dealing with this issue, as reported in JIRA SVC-8124 and SVC-7613 on an urgent, if not emergency basis.

Linden Lab, you were warned time and again about the inadvisability of rolling poorly tested code out to RC channels, and in general the unready state of the Pathfinding project.  Now face your responsibilties and sort this mess out now.

Like MB, I love my SL and I hate to criticize, but this time The Lab has really blown it.

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Lydia

CEO is not Chairman of the Board.  There are many Chairmen who take little or no interest in the running of a company.  They are merely there to run meetings and cast deciding votes.

This FUBAR is Rod's baby, not Phil's.

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Now from what I have seen this weekend thing have gotten a lot worse, and if it continues through this week I am not sure SL can be saved or even should be.  The point i was making and will make again is this situation is out of control and the player base has lost most of its trust in the hierarchy of LL to either fix or even care if these problems exist.  As for the problems, part of it is bandwidth, part is a massive amount of lag between commands in their execution which seems to be causing massive amounts of crashes. Also there is a serious problem with traffic counting, which may again stem from command lag.  The core of the problem is likely in the physics engine which apparently is not able to balance the demands of a mesh and a prim based building system, if in fact this can be reconciled or balanced at all.  Some of this may eventally be solved by Project Shinings hardware upgrades but by then I suspect few players will be around to enjoy it.


What is needed not is first a clear statement of purpose from the SL leadership acknowledging that these problems exists, two a promise and a plan to fix them rapidly, and three a promise of accountability for those who through either ignorance or wrongheadedness perpetuate it.  None of this will probably take place and this week I expect to see a series of restarts that perpetuate the problem or in fact make it worse, at which time even more people will loose patience with LL close their businesses, leave and not come back.

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Lydia, you   have been saying this sort of thing for an age.

On what   I see, nobody who takes the important decisions is listening. They never do.

What was Pathfinding supposed to do anyway? Who asked for it?            

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You know what.  You all are the ones who keep putting your money into this game.  The most expensive game (or whatever you call it) that exist or will ever exist).  For $295/month (Estate) you should get a whole server with root access yet your sim. is on a server with how many others? Would you pay this kind of money for your Cell phone that only worked 1/4 of the time? Honestly its seems LL wants people to pull out because I can't believe a company operates like this to try to keep customers.  Who is the dumbass either on the board or management making these decisions. Did you go to business school? Hey Phil, go out on your yacht with your billions from these people who have stuck with you through thick and thin and leave the decisions to people who still have to work everyday to survive.  I'll say it again Residents. Its your fault you keep putting money into this only to be s*** on.  OMG,  the only thing your Live Chat people know is to restart a sim.  How much money LL are you paying for unskilled labor??  Thats my rant. Have fun.

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For once be clear Pathfinding is not the chief issue, it seems to be the new Havok Physics engine, which is causing most of the trouble.  Maybe you did not realize that though called the Pathfinding Project last weeks restart contained two components and it is the second Havok and the preparations leading up to its installation that seem to be the cause of these problems.  This probably is of no concern to you, but is of huge concern to business owners and players in SL who trusted LL not to make this kind of mess as this critical time in SL history.  LL, however, did not listen to the warnings of those who tested this physics engine and went on with the installation with little if no warning or consideration for the consequences.  Those consequences have indeed been severe and are getting worse and if not quickly correcte may well lead to the demise of Second Life.  If this seems bitter it actually is quite mild compared to what is being said by those who do not appear in these forums and are quietly preparing to exit SL talking with them a considerable part of its economy.

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