*** Imagine: A Case of Harassment

[SaltyBoy]

Imagine that from the moment you enter second life to the moment you leave second life, that there are individuals following you and initiating contact with you in very strange ways.

Sometimes you have an avatar a few weeks old with no payment information sending you hundreds of lindens trying to get you to talk (like there's something to talk about) or others teleporting to you directly, to instant message you with a single letter and than teleport away all in under a few seconds expecting you may respond after you've ignored so many other direct attempts at contact.

Imagine that they pester you for personal information, verbally assault you and even imply physical harm.

Imagine that teleporting away is not enough when another random person shows up even in obscure places with no one around, to do just the same under a different account usually less than 30 days old with little to nothing in it.

Imagine these accounts are actually like this because they are disposable.

All of the above is true and has been going on for months now and just tonight, after being called "ugly" and a "**bleep**get" (their spelling not mine - slur for homosexual) I decided to send in a number of reports to linden lab when it dawned on me, after writing everything down, that this individual had to have special powers in second life.

In this persons profile, the photo I noticed was uploaded from an alt of there's (phoenix provides you with the upload username, which was just 9 days old) and had a curious name like they may have been messing others directly with the username as they had done previously because one thing that I've noticed is that the names chosen for these avatars always relate in some way to you and sometimes even a common phrase said in instant message among friends (this happened to me so, it's beyond coincidence).

I should mention, the person kept asking me why I was on an alt and wouldn't let that go like they wanted agreement.

I finally had to admit to myself this morning that there was no way this could be happening without again, second life powers normal people would not have access to and of course the ability to delete accounts instantly.

I am aware that big brother is here but never as aware as I am now because I am certain there is no other reasonable explanation and I just wanted to say that I really have a new perspective on second life and I certainly give a lot more credence to many things I have heard over the years from users who have long gone.

I'm really not sure if this post will survive here but it needs to be said for sure and while I'm not "necessarily" holding anyone responsible for this, I am certain whoever is involved in this harassment is not doing this on their own.

I would like some feedback from anyone who has an opinion on this and it's not beyond me to think either that those who reply most in these forums (and you see a lot of them around) are not linden lab employees as well and while there is no problem with that, I seriously have to question everything including advise now because it's not just a straight-forward game anymore at least not to me, when it more resembles a chapter from 1984.

I always thought people who didn't want to provide real life information were over-reacting, but no way.

* If you think in your own mind that linden lab could not be involved in this, then you must admit that second life is seriously flawed as far as privacy goes (private chat / location / more) and there are people getting away with harassment using dummy accounts.

* If you believe that linden lab is involved in this (or opening the door for others) then you have to wonder what the hell is going on and how they can allow someone to be so harassing when it reflects their business.

* If you think I am making all of this up, I filed about 5-6 abuse reports and you can submit at ticking asking about their authenticity because this morning was really the last straw.

Edit: I just log into that account now to receive a offline message. I had teleported away to send in those reports and noticed someone hovering over me and had decided to talk to them because I'm becoming suspicious of everyone.

Here's what they said after I logged off...
(Saved Thu May 10 05:07:48 2012) I'm never entirely honest with anyone, Salty.  This is second life

No one deserves this and someone better take a good hard look this because I do consider this abuse.

[Nova Convair]

Sounds like another conspiracy theory.

 

[Venus Petrov]

Gosh, you sure have a lot of drama going on.  I seriously doubt that an uber powered Linden is following you about on alts.  What would make you so interesting to them that they would want to spend time checking you out?

 

[SaltyBoy]

---

Nova Convair wrote:

Sounds like another conspiracy theory.

 

---

Maybe a theory to you but an absolute reality for me and for the past few months I've been careful to teleport places and watch who shows up and to pay attention to their nickname because it took me weeks to believe it myself but, without fail, they come straight for you no matter how many people are around.

I even confided in a person who observed the same thing and eventually had to say in so many words, "you know I didn't beleive you at first but something is definitely going on" when a unique name they thought up and called me only in private (because I asked to make sure they weren't saying this everywhere else) ended up as a username the following day of a person who ended up wandering around them for a few minutes behind this person, obviously trying to get a reaction?

Shortly after of course, the name disappears from the database (just checked now to be sure).

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

Linden Lab won't get involved in resident disputes.  It's in the TOS you agreed to when you joined. ()

That said, there are over nine thousand places to visit in SL.  If anyone is 'finding' you, it's because you've developed an obvious pattern.  Suggestion: Mute them and try some place new.  SL is too big to limit yourself to a handful of hangouts. ()

Finally, consider more crowded locations with staff and security.  Get in good with the people there and they'll ban just about anyone you claim to be harassing you.  You've already given these people more attention than they deserve.  Better to treat them like they're worthless and invisible.  They may not ever 'get' the message, but they're likely to escelate things enough to get themselves IP banned and coming back won't be worth the effort. ()y

 

 

[SaltyBoy]

This isn't a resident dispute. This is multiple account harrassment.

In fact, I was at a female skin shop (on a female avater sometimes) where I last left off (rarely go there, have no groups in my profile or images or anything) and I was watching as I typically do when I first log on and this person (male avatar dressed all noobish) showed up for literally 2 seconds because I saw them immediately and amongst a small group of people, sent me a message of 1 single character then left.

The place wouldn't even have loaded if it were a normal person.

I asked if there was a problem to which they said in so many words, "yeah, you're ugly" and continued on with slurs and of course "why are you on an alt" while ignoring everything else I said. Their profile now is completely cleared and the alt that uploaded their image was deleted faster than I could get the report out so it wasn't a consequence of the report, it was their own doing.

I'm beyond the point of whether or not this is happening; this is happening.

Not sure there's anything I can do except to make this very clear to everyone that this happens.

[Innula Zenovka]

Someone over at SLU was complaining about being stalked by an ex, and it was suggested that she create -- at least temporarily -- an alt and then let her stalker know he could stalk the main avatar as much as he liked, since that one was now being used as a bot.    Then log the main in using the Radegast text viewer and leave it running (it doesn't use much memory) and, for the hell of it, enable Radegast's A.L.I.C.E. AI chat feature, so her stalker could have interesting conversations with the bot and give her some laughs.

After a week or so of that, the theory went, her stalker would soon lose interest, and she could go back to being her main if she wanted.

 

 

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

"I asked if there was a problem" << Big mistake.   That's what they want.  Instead of addressing them, just mute them and ignore them for the insiginificant dorks they are. ()y

 

 

[SaltyBoy]

---

Imnotgoing Sideways wrote:

"I asked if there was a problem" << Big mistake.   That's what they want.  Instead of addressing them, just mute them and ignore them for the insiginificant dorks they are. (

)y

 

---

They come back constantly, new disposable names and it's the same thing over again.

The other thing is, they're not always abusive and sometimes they'll pay me money like I said and just hang around and then say "so you're not going to speak?". They're always a week old or less pretending to be new and when I ask how they got that money with no payment information, I get "nevermind that why does it matter?".

They're always trying to get personal information out of me, no matter where I go, this is a big problem and I'm seriously thinking about just avoiding this game except where absolutely necessary because this is happening and I do believe linden lab is involved in some way but that's my opinion, only because I don't see this being possible and to this extent with accounts appearing and disappearing.

I should have started video taping this.

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

You're already giving them more attnetion than they deserve.  That's exactly what they want.  Stop giving it to them.  You've been far too generous with them already. (=_=)

The way you're justifying them so far makes them sound like they're your friends and they just get pissy once in a while. (=_=)y

[SaltyBoy]

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Imnotgoing Sideways wrote:

You're already giving them more attnetion than they deserve.  That's exactly what they want.  Stop giving it to them.  You've been far too generous with them already. (=_=)

The way you're justifying them so far makes them sound like they're your friends and they just get pissy once in a while. (=_=)y

---

My friends are you kidding? This has been going on for months and I am certain this is beyond a couple of people joking around because it's all the time and who has that much determination? Besides, I've not even mentioned this previously so I'm giving attention to no one; I had always just ignored them and random teleports that never stop etc..

Thanks for your responses though but this game is really more trouble than it's worth and I think linden lab or big brother is behind this as they "investigate" people or whatever it is they claim to do so if you're wise, you'll avoid offering up your details and allow every government body to watch what you do and listen to your chat because obviously this is what they're doing.

Seriously, who else would be listening to your chat and creating and destroying accounts based on it?

That's my opinion, you make your own.

[Marigold Devin]

I cannot agree with Imnotgoing Sideways enough on this one - you really need to completely ignore whoever these people are that are targeting you for grief.

And believe it or not, it sounds like pure coincidence, rather than a Linden alt using God powers to come looking for you.

I am not in any way dismissing you, or trying to undermine your belief system, but it sounds like you are visiting busy places, and there are most often people at busy places who do create alt after alt with the sole intention of calling people phaggget (spelt like this in the hope it won't get bleeeped out by the automatic moderation system on these forums).

A professional counsellor would give you the same advice as Immy, and others - go about your business and ignore messages from people that are obscure, insulting, harrassing. It is far easier in Second Life than in real life to block/mute someone, and you do not owe them a reaction.  There are people who will send a "." as a message, just because they are sending everyone in the vicinity a message similar, to see who they can goad next. Sad but true.  Those people need professional help and/or a life - you have a life, and you are entitled to live it without harrassment. 

Once again, to emphasise what Immy has already advised, block/mute and ignore completely anyone who invades your physical or mental space. Do not feed them with even a teaspoonful of attention.

I honestly do not believe anyone is following you or your alts in Second Life. It really is pure coincidence.

[SaltyBoy]

So, it's normal and acceptable in second life to have people grabbing phrases from your personal chat (which is not secure by the way - even though the phoenix team tried to make it so and did for awhile but was denied by linden lab?) and details of your personal life and creating accounts around that only to be destroyed later?

Better advise, would be to leave this game, wouldn't you agree?

There is a serious problem here that no one wants to admit so I'm speaking out.

[Marigold Devin]

Wanted to share this also with you.

When I had been in Second Life for several months, I was convinced someone from Linden Lab was watching me, and my then German partner. It does seem plausible that a company with the name of Linden Lab would be conducting experiments for one thing, and a lot of very strange things seemed to happen, that felt like more than coincidences. 

Example: on some days it felt like I was being followed around the grid. Wherever I would go, I would get a message in the stop right hand corner of my screen saying that the sim was going to be restarted in the next five minutes and that I would be logged out if I remained in the sim.  I would teleport out to a random sim, and a few minutes later, what do you know, the very same thing would happen again.  It was obvious I was being followed, someone knew my every moment - wasn't it?

Another example: I could have several hours of enjoyment in Second Life, and whenever me and then partner got into an awkward point in a conversation, my viewer would suddenly crash, and it would take ages before I'd be able to log back in again, by which time, the partner had gone off in a bad mood.

Another example: After one of the above sudden crashes, I was flying about the sim I returned to, looking for my partner, who was also flying about, when we discovered strange silent avatars with no details on their profiles on every corner of the sim.  We thought we were being surveyed by these avatars.

Over time I discovered that I am not in the least bit interesting, with or without a German partner (I am in the UK).  It was a coincidence that I was landing on sims that were about to be restarted, because I did not know back then that this happened on a day when there were deploys/rollouts to the whole grid, so it would have been very unlikely not to have this message come down onto my screen several times in a session.

The sudden crashes were because we would be rowing about some weapon that my partner had used on me, which was heavily scripted, causing too much strain on my graphics card, hence poof and I was out.  Being unable to log in for several minutes, was the server just being a bit slow logging all my avatar details out.

The strange silent avatars turned out to be land bots.  They used to be placed at around 200m in the sky, and as it was relatively rare for people to be flying around, they could sit there with their land botting scripts functioning without anyone even realising they were there.

Conspiracy theories - this is all they were - and hopefully in time, you will be able to make sense of your current situation.  While you are in the middle of this though, you cannot see objectively what is really happening to you. This will pass, and you will laugh about it.  If you spend time at busy places, sit on a wall or the nearest prim and just observe, alt view around you, it will become apparent that there are people just out to harrass people, and you have not been singled out for this treatment.

[Kylie Jaxxon]

---

SaltyBoy wrote:

So, it's normal and acceptable in second life to have people grabbing phrases from your personal chat (which is not secure by the way - even though the phoenix team tried to make it so but was denied by linden lab?) and details of your personal life and creating accounts around that only to be destroyed later?

Better advise, would be to leave this game, wouldn't you agree?

There is a serious problem here that no one wants to admit so I'm speaking out.

---

That, or don't put that kind of info in your chat messages...keep everything said impersonal

 

[SaltyBoy]

---

Kylie Jaxxon wrote:

---

SaltyBoy wrote:

So, it's normal and acceptable in second life to have people grabbing phrases from your personal chat (which is not secure by the way - even though the phoenix team tried to make it so but was denied by linden lab?) and details of your personal life and creating accounts around that only to be destroyed later?

Better advise, would be to leave this game, wouldn't you agree?

There is a serious problem here that no one wants to admit so I'm speaking out.

---

That, or don't put that kind of info in your chat messages...keep everything said impersonal

 

---

Agreed and really, that's the only obvious answer.

 

If you're in this game you have to assume the worst because it is happening and I've even asked friends about their general contact in second life and what kinds of things are in fact possible, which may be far more than we could imagine.

[Imnotgoing Sideways]

You have interesting conspiracy theories, but, I believe you overestimate the significance of Linden Lab and underestimate the stupidity of the people who are supposedly following you.  The fact that you speak to them at all (something you've already admitted to) tells me that you either want to engage them or lack the self control necessary to function without responding to them. (=_=)

Linden Lab has very little presense in SL.  In fact, as of lately, AR response has horribly dwindled.  So, unless you can cite a specific TOS violation by your little fan club, the lab can and will completely ignore you. (=_=)

---

SaltyBoy wrote:

...this game...

---

One clear constant I'm aware of after assisting many people through their first time in Second Life.  Those who join expecting a game tend to be disappointed and hate SL the most.  Simple reason: It's no game.  If you want to play a game, I suggest Star Trek Online.  It's free to play with a seemingly good social aspect. ()

Either way, it's growing apparent that you have no question and don't want to resolve anything.  For that, I'll just say; good luck in your attempt to create an echo chamber of gossip against online nobodies. ()y

 

 

[Marigold Devin]

---

SaltyBoy wrote:

So, it's normal and acceptable in second life to have people grabbing phrases from your personal chat (which is not secure by the way - even though the phoenix team tried to make it so and did for awhile but was denied by linden lab?) and details of your personal life and creating accounts around that only to be destroyed later?

Better advise, would be to leave this game, wouldn't you agree?

There is a very serious problem in second life that no one wants to admit.

---

If the game is making you feel vulnerable or undermined, and not happy, then you would be best advised to leave the "game".  I don't enjoy playing chess, so I don't play chess.  

Regarding the OTR that Phoenix had, I never believed it was possible to have a totally private conversation, because what a field day potential terrorists/paedophiles/bank robbers etc would have. OTR just was there to give people a false sense of security (in my opinion).

Again, though, I would advise you to change the way you are perceiving your Second Life, alter your ways slightly, observe more, take things less personally.  I sometimes go and sit at Bear or Korea3 and observe.  Every time I go to the "welcome" areas I spend half my time IMing people to sit on prims, because they're being chased around and called phaggget or whatever by losers' alts.  Half the "private" chats they may be firing back at you can be guessed at too, some information can be garnered about you from the groups you are joined to, anything that anyone can "google".  Don't rule these things out.

Lastly, if you really believe private details are being divulged about you, and you believe it is a Linden alt, you must continue to submit ARs, but do keep them brief. Crazy rambles and speculation will not be taken seriously.  Also, anything hard copy to hand? - pop a copy of it all with a covering letter to LL's head office at Battery Street, San Francisco.  

 

[SaltyBoy]

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Marigold Devin wrote:

 

Regarding the OTR that Phoenix had, I never believed it was possible to have a totally private conversation, because what a field day potential terrorists/paedophiles/bank robbers etc would have. OTR just was there to give people a false sense of security (in my opinion).

 

---

You live in the United States right? This is why you're losing all of your rights and why you have the TSA everywhere and NDAA bills getting signed when no one is paying attention that basically negates every right you have and you're absolutely fine with this?

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

(Benjamin Franklin)

 

Better a false sense of security than no security?

Better to have a lock on the door even when not impenetrable?

It's one thing to observe and document and quite another to act on it and harass a person, if this is in fact what is happening which I cannot know one way or another except to go with my suspicions and what I think I've been observing carefully enough.

[Innula Zenovka]

---

SaltyBoy

wrote:

if

this is in fact what is happening, which I cannot know one way or another except go with my suspicions. All I know is, this game may well deserve the reputation it has.

---

OK.   You've got your suspicions, which some people -- and I have to say I'm one of them -- think are unfounded.   But the fact of the matter is that no one can, as you put it, "know one way or another".  

Where do we go from here?  You've been given some practical suggestions for dealing with this harassment.   How else can anyone help?

 

[Marigold Devin]

---

SaltyBoy wrote:

---

Marigold Devin wrote:

 

Regarding the OTR that Phoenix had, I never believed it was possible to have a totally private conversation, because what a field day potential terrorists/paedophiles/bank robbers etc would have. OTR just was there to give people a false sense of security (in my opinion).

 

---

You live in the United States right?

This is why you're losing all of your rights and why you have the TSA everywhere and NDAA bills getting signed when no one is paying attention that basically negates every right you have and you're absolutely fine with this?

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

(Benjamin Franklin)

 

Better a false sense of security than no security?

Better to have a lock on the door even when not impenetrable?

It's one thing to observe and document and quite another to act on it and harass a person, if this is in fact what is happening which I cannot know one way or another except to go with my suspicions and what I think I've been observing carefully enough.

---

If you had bothered to read through my earlier post, you would see I am not in the United States.  If you cannot be bothered to read the advice that you have already been given, then no one can help you.

You can go on and on and on with your conspiracy theory, which is all it would seem to be, or you can gather all your evidence together and send it to the only ones who can really help you - either Linden Lab, or a mental health professional.

Seriously!

/me follows Immy out the door of this thread.



[Dirtnap Mumfuzz]

SaltyBoy, I think I understand what you are saying, and I don't think it is that impossible that you are experiencing some form of harassment and/or stalking.

I do not believe, however, that a Linden Labs employee would have a reason to do so.

 

I sense your aggravation at being branded as a conspiracy theorist by others who obviously are not getting what you are expressing, just reading what you are saying and injecting their own interpretation and bias. I know you feel this is only adding insult to injury, and you would be correct in feeling so.

I understand your frustration at having someone continually create accounts to pursue you, and I understand why the simple answers of "just mute them and move on" won't work, because you can't mute an account that doesn't exist. You can't fully anticipate something that hasn't happened yet.

Again, I do not believe that a Linden is behind it. There are others who would garner such attention long before you would, provided you are being unbiased in your report.

 

Stalker tools have existed in SL before. I've seen many products that claim the ability to do things, such as locate anyone anywhere on the grid and capture all forms of chat. I believe these sort of things have been outlawed, but I also believe that if it can be done once, it can be done twice.

The idea that someone with some serious issues has created something like this, gotten their hands on a few of these, or is using an illegal third party viewer with some of these malicious tools integrated in to it does not seem unrealistic to me.

And 'bot' accounts can be very easily disguised to behave as if someone were at the controls.

 

Again I doubt seriously that anyone employed by Linden Labs would be able to act on their given 'abilities' without it being noticed internally, and dealt with before the lawsuit could erupt in public. I also doubt that many on the payroll would have such broad, sweeping powers at their disposal. NO one gives the janitor keys to the vault.

Besides, Linden Labs' normal modus operandi is not to constantly harass, it's usually less active/reactive than that.

 

I also understand your frustration at trying to communicate your problem, and having things misread or taken out of context, and how that can further lead you to feel alienated.

I think you are being goaded in to a state of heightened paranoia by the person or persons you feel are harassing and/or bullying you.

I believe you.

 

The first advice I would give you is, don't take the bait. Yes that can be hard, but it can be done. And if it can be done once, it can be done twice.

 

The second advice I would offer is try a different strategy. You are being bullied, so start by being aware, and try to follow the basic tenets of dealing with bullies.

Do the unexpected, instead of responding as anticipated to the button-pushing.

Laugh ("virtually") at the comments. Display humor rather than fear or anger.

Give them fake personal data, such as the police station address or a payphone number.

Respond in like-manner when messaged, with a single digit. Copy/paste their message back to them.

Reply to slur with equal or better slur. Think along the lines of "Cyrano DeBergerac". Be creative.

 

Thirdly, there are a variety of methods built in to your viewer, and available in-world, that can help offer additional levels of anonymity and personal security. Seek out these options, and implement them to your best ability. 

Buy them with the money that you are being given, for an added poke in the eye to your victimizer.

 

Fourthly, it is easy to run multiple viewers on the same machine. Or on a second one, if available. Run dual accounts simultaneously, and see if one or both receive identical and/or simultaneous harassment. If so, your 'stalker' is most likely not a person, but instead is a program...ie. you are being stalked by a bot someone has put on you, for whatever reason.

 

Odds are high that if 'they' are displaying anger or aggravation, then you are getting to them instead of them getting to you. This should give you some slight satisfaction, that you have such power over another, without doing anything but being yourself. Imagine the frothing idiot at the other end, who is not making you upset but is instead being upset by their own actions. This whole sort of reversal is quite ironic, poetically just, and humorous. Stress kills, self inflicted or otherwise; wish them a nice heart attack and LOL in their face. 

Above all, learn to strategize, and not take the bait being offered.

 

A lot of information can be gathered by you on this, that you have possibly not yet tried.

For example, your account transaction history will show the list of persons who have given or received anything to/from you. This would be a good place to start collecting data on names and dates of things that have already occurred.

 

Posting the names of accounts that do not exist, to my knowledge, is not a violation of any form of TOS, so I am not positive but I would be inclined to think that doing so would not be an act that would cause you negative repercussions ( but double check that to be sure)...and posting the list of dates and names would possibly provide a little more validity to your claim.

 

Also, inspect your inventory for any received item that may have something malicious scripted into it, which would broadcast or otherwise track your presence or behavior.

 

There is an old saying: keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

Do not discount that if a person is doing this, it is more likely to be someone close to you, as opposed to a total stranger.

[Griffin Ceawlin]

I don't think anyone at LL has the time or inclination to stalk and harass anyone, or to aid and abet anyone else in doing so.

Sure, I could be wrong, and Xxxxx Linden has taken an unhealthy interest in getting to know you better and is busy on his off time following you around the grid using an alt. But why? Are you really that interesting?

I think it's far more likely that your avatar and/or your computer have been compromised in some way.

[Marigold Devin]

I really do hope the OP reads through your post, and all the posts in this thread, and obtains the help that he seeks and needs with a happy outcome. 

LL need to be locking this thread now it's become one of tip taps once again between certain parties. It's not useful at all to the OP when a thread goes that way, as I'm sure you'll agree. 

[Griffin Ceawlin]

Agreed and agreed.