Blush Bravin

Ah, okay.

Your up front cost to get one of those estate parcels is less, granted, but the monthly fees are WAY MORE than paying tier on mainland. So that's not a very good argument. Are you suggesting that LL set parcels to 1L and then raise the cost of tier? That's the only way you can compare the two situations.

I'm not suggesting that at all. I'm just saying if all the land was good land then the flippers wouldn't have the resources to control it all or be able to keep prices artificially high.

Not all areas will be suitable for my proposed suggestions. Please read Bitsy's response I quoted below. She totally gets my idea. I don't remember how long ago but not so far in the distant past Linden Lab set into motion a policy of all abandoned being automatically set at 1L per sqm. That policy was an outstanding flop. Flippers took advantage of it to take even more control of the somewhat desirable land while the bulk of those inland "ugly" areas remained empty. There was no rush to buy interior mainland by average Jane and Joe Resident. It didn't help mainland at all. Thank you Bitsy!! You totally get what I'm saying. I'm all for Linden Lab making some money from auctioning land. I don't think parcels should be set to any certain amount. I think all beautified Mainland should then go through the auction process. The one thing I think would help though is that there be a ceiling put on maximum bids and that those same maximum prices be sustained for the life of the parcel. So what I mean is that the maximum price of any parcel not exceed 20L per sqm (arbitrary amount noted for demonstration purpose only) and that maximum can never be exceeded by those who purchase the land and then resell it. Of course auctions can be won with bids of less should it not be outbid. This will allow for profits to be made.

I think you get my argument wrong. I in no way support selling abandoned land for free. My argument is make all of Mainland attractive so that there's enough so that flippers can't control all the best lands in Mainland. I do NOT support getting anything for free. As I said earlier people don't appreciate the things they get for free.

Maybe I'm not remembering your plan, but what I recall is that you suggested abandoned land be set at 1L per parcel and without any limit as to resell values. There's only a limited amount of prime lands. Currently most of those lands, not all - I'm not saying all, but the majority are controlled by flippers or large rental companies. So those lands aren't going to get abandoned. Those lands aren't going to be set at 1L per parcel. Your plan won't cut flippers off at the knees. It won't affect them at all unless Mainland is overhauled and made attractive to the point that the amount of prime land is no longer the minority but the majority of the land available. You can get free land now basically. 1L per sqm is pretty much free, not as free as you'd like but that's super cheap. Problem is no one wants that land because it's ugly. In my years in SL I have seen flippers erect monstrous towers, completely wall in parcels to force someone to sell, build actual garbage dumps, rez objects with so many scripts that it lagged out the whole region, camp bots in the sky with so many that people wanting to get to their homes couldn't because the region was full. These are just a few of the methods I've witnessed myself. I'm not saying all flippers do this but there are many who do. I tend to think people don't value things they get for free. I am very invested in Mainland. I'm passionate about Mainland. I want it to thrive. So, I'd be all for your plan if I thought it would succeed, I just don't think it will.

Yes, you would, but you'd buy one parcel and live on it. A land flipper will buy many parcels, jack-up the price, and then set on it until it sells or worse yet, if it doesn't sell resort to underhanded means to get you or one of your neighbors to buy him/her out. Of course you might think, oh well, I'll just abandon my land and move on, after all I didn't have to pay more than 1L to buy it in the first place. So you abandon and guess what ... the flipper buys it and then jacks up the price on it and then we are in the same mess we're in now. So the vicious cycle is propagated and we end up exactly where we began. The only way to end the cycle is to renovate all of Mainland so that all lands become valuable. As long as we have a glut of ugly land and only a limited supply of what is considered attractive the flippers will be able to control those lands and keep the prices high.

They open the map and check for new yellow blocks of land in the prime areas. If you're in the business this is second nature. Every morning it's the first thing you do.

Because they are in the business to do so. Are you a land flipper? I'm not.

I enjoy spaces like this as well, unfortunately most of the abandoned mainland doesn't look like this. Also, there's nothing stopping someone from purchasing part of that space and turning it into a garbage dump. That's why I am still hoping that a Linden or two with the ability to start a new project will take notice of this thread and take steps to insure that protected green spaces are created.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Bot_policy Linden Lab routinely looks at search results, and will treat use of bots to gain an unfair search advantage as an abuse issue. You do not need to file an abuse report for violations; Linden Lab monitors the search results. To begin, Linden Lab sends a warning message to the land owner. If the issue persists, then account suspension or removal from search may result. If you feel there has been an unfair decision in this regard, use the abuse appeals process. Linden Lab routinely looks at message volume, and will treat use of bots to send excessive messages as an abuse issue. You do not need to file an abuse report for violations; Linden Lab monitors aggregate communication volume. Emphasis mine. They seem to not want ARs filed on bots and do not address the means of enforcement directly in regards to land bots.

I remember watching the development of a mystery continent about a year or so ago. That continent turned out to be Horizons, which was moved to the Zindra area. Don't worry! This new continent won't be wasted. We just have to be patient and wait to see what the Lindens and moles are up to.

I think it's interesting that in the enforcement section of that article there is no mention of how they will enforce the land bot prohibition. They do directly address the issue of gaming search and message volume. I suppose that's why they are still very active in mainland sales.

This makes me curious.

Look at all that water!! Love the little rivers.

Water can much more than a beach. Water in the form of lakes, rivers, streams all add interest to the landscape.

I know this occurs. To be honest, most of the time I see it done it doesn't detract from the surroundings. When I have had a problem with it blocking access or the view I have contacted the owner of the objects and asked nicely if they could move it. If that fails then I have AR'd the offense and a Linden has removed the objects. So I don't think that's much of an argument against having protected land in a region. Of course you wouldn't just plop water in the middle of an area without the proper terraform and amenities that go with it. I did say green spaces as well that wouldn't include water or roads. It's just a matter of being smart and not simple minded to get the job done. This would give people a choice of the type of area they'd like to purchase and also give you a buffer away from your neighbors. But this is just my idea of one way to improve mainland. I've learned a long time ago that there's always more than one way to get a job done. In fact, variety makes things much more interesting. So I welcome your solutions as well.

If they did it with 50% of the region they could then turn the remaining land into double prim lands. No doubt those lands would become as sought after as any of the prime coastal sailing lands today.

Yes, there's always an exception to the rule. I have done the same. I've always owned prime mainland. Typically I've gotten a fairly good deals on the land I've purchased because I'm smart about it having been partnered to a person in the SL land biz and watching how he managed his business. But I'm talking about the big picture and not the exceptions.

I kind of agree with your point in that I don't want to see mainland become densely populated. I want it to be beautified. Take the abandoned land that's there now and turn it into water or green spaces that are permanently protected lands owned by the Governor.

The biggest problem I see in your plan is that it does nothing to stop the monopolization of all the good lands by land flippers. They may not be able to buy all of mainland but they can certainly control all the good land unless a huge renovation is made to make all of mainland attractive. Just making the ugly mainland sell for 1L per parcel isn't enough to get people to buy those ugly lands. It's kind of like saying, "Hey I have a (insert the most undesirable thing you can imagine here) for sale, it used to sell for a dollar a piece but on special today you can have the whole thing for that dollar." Do you really think people are going to buy it just cause it's cheaper now? Unless those ugly lands are renovated with much more than just road access, they are going to stay unpopulated regardless of purchase price.

source: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Linden_Lab_Official:Mainland_policies "We therefore may, in our sole discretion, move any parcel of land that is smaller than or equal to 128 sqm where such land is interfering with the enjoyment of a significantly larger parcel of land or region." Technically not banned but frowned on by Linden Lab. I saw Guy Linden come in and join parcels that had been cut into small pieces in a region adjacent to mine a few years back. But as I said earlier you can still find little "ad farm"ish parcels with ads on them if you travel along any roadway in SL for very long.

Yes, I am a she. And your description of a land bot is oh so much better than mine. The not talking was just the part that set off my bot radar, but I would always follow up because as you pointed out not talking in and of itself is not a true indicator.

The only reason I even began to explain was because of Lindal's comment which made it seem that she believed land bots didn't exist anymore. In my initial comment referring to land bots I didn't not qualify why I knew it was a bot. So regardless of how I knew, the fact is that they do still operate in SL and land flippers are the ones who use them.

I'd like to see them turn large parcels (or complete regions) that are unoccupied into water (properly terraformed) and made into protected Governor Linden owned land. As more land in the region becomes available permanent Governor Linden owned green spaces could be developed. Once enough land has been transferred to Governor Linden the remaining parcels could be made into double prim land. Doing this would revitalize the region and what once was barren unwanted land would become an oasis of sorts. I'm sure it would take an army of moles to accomplish this task. I have no idea if it's even feasible to try this. But it sounds like mainland heaven to me.