Toysoldier Thor

OK this problem has not gone away - it just repeats the same problem every day. I started another thread but no one else seems to be complaining about this. http://community.secondlife.com/t5/General-Discussion-Forum/Forum-Email-Notifications-Screwing-up-this-past-week/m-p/1454525/message-uid/1454525#U1454525 That is the thread I opened. Every day my forum email subscriptions are pausing and being held back for almost 23 hours then at about 5:30am SLT my email account gets BLASTED from LL by 150+ emails from all the held back email notifications.... I get about an hour of immediate notifications then LL pauses my emails again for the rest of the day. YES I checked all my setting which I never set/change. YES its all set to immediatel. YES I am getting emails from other LL email notifcations throughout the day so its not my email system. This seems to have started on the same day as the the DD Deployment. I was going to open a support ticket with LL but there is no options in the LL Support to report problems with the Community forums. I guess I will have to open a JIRA which we all know are usually never actioned by LL. So I dont know how to resolve this hugely annoying cyclical problem.

Masami Kuramoto wrote: Toysoldier Thor wrote: You are trying to say that because no one has spun off an initiative and decided to spend 1000's of hours to create a new friendly UI for Blender and receive nothing in financial compensation for their efforts.... that this somehow means that everyone likes the current one? REALLY?? Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. Blender 2.57, released in April 2011, had its UI rewritten from scratch, with plenty of community participation (including donations) during the entire process. In other words, the 1000s of hours were indeed spent, and Blender now looks exactly the way its users want it. If you think they're all wrong, go ahead and initiate a crowdfunding project for a better Blender UI. Share your vision and see how many people get into your boat. I think you're in for a big surprise. I installed the latest blender this year. It is not better - it is more complex and worse. But clearly you are biased and a lover of Blender. There will not be any way of changing your mind. I know from my own personal experience and from comments from several fellow 3D builders that Blender is Ogre of 3D UI. Its horridly over complex and non-intuitive. But if it works for geekoids like you - GREAT! Just dont deceive others by telling them its EASIEST. And get real. I have no intention in investing anything in Blender. I already told you that I have moved on from blender.

OK - so it didnt last even 2 hours. My SL Forum Email notifications have already stopped "immediate mode". They are once again being held up and I will be blasted some time in the future. wow is this all screwed up.

Masami Kuramoto wrote: Toysoldier Thor wrote: OK I have to respond to this posting and call BS on this statement. For anyone to openly post with a straight face that a 3D program that has a long standing reputation as having one of the most difficult and confusing U.I.s in the 3D tool industry is the "easiest to use" is either not familiar with any other 3D modeling tool or has a huge bias for Blender. Blender is the first 3D modeling tool I unfortunately cut my noob teeth on. It has one of the most steep learning curves in the industry. The UI was developed by a bunch of unix geeks that had no concept of proper intuitive UI designs. If does not conform to most well known and understood UIs. Blender is open source. If its UI design is that bad, why has no one forked it? Why are there dozens of third-party SL viewers but no third-party Blender? I think I know the answer: It's because your point of view is a minority opinion. Blender is developed, maintained and funded by those who use it. The idea that a community of that size would agree on anything but the most efficient UI is preposterous. Zbrush is good at what it does, but what it does is not enough to get the job done. You can sculpt in Blender, but you can't do subdivision modeling, simulate cloth physics, retopo, unwrap, bake, rig, and weight-paint in Zbrush. Blender is the entire production pipeline; Zbrush is a one-trick pony. Blender has tons of support resources online; Zbrush can't even fill a page in the SL mesh wiki. LOL You are kidding me right? In the 3 years I have been involved in SL and sculpty creating and talking to several fellow sculpty creators in the community - if there was one common agreed message.... BLENDERS UI SUCKS & BLENDER HAS ONE OF THE STEEPEST LEARNING CURVES KNOWN. You are trying to say that because no one has spun off an initiative and decided to spend 1000's of hours to create a new friendly UI for Blender and receive nothing in financial compensation for their efforts.... that this somehow means that everyone likes the current one? REALLY?? So tell me... lets suppose that you absolutely hated Blender's UI and you were to agree with most that I know that Blender's UI is one of the worst..... would you be inspired to create a completely new UI for Blender? Also, even if some team decided to finally spin off and create a more friendly untuitive UI for Blender.... and they complete it and out it out FREE for all to use. Who do you think will migrate to it / adopt it when 99.9% of all the tutorials, literature, training, and even the Blender org site would have all their documentation based on the current ugly UI? I would be one of the first to jump on to this new friendly UI BUT then I would quickly give up because there would be no one around to support me or explain to me how a task or function would work for this new UI. Adoption would be very slow - only because there would be no support for it. Your argument and reasoning on your post holds no water. That was a simplistic response that is invalid. As for what Zbrush can do vs Blender... although you are not correct on all the limitations of Zbrush, no one was arguing that Blender was not powerful. Maybe take another few minutes are re-read my posting. Did I not say that Blender was very powerful? You my friend are getting FRIENDLY and POWERFUL mixed up. Because Blender is powerful - that surely does not make it EASIEST! Which it is not. THE UI SUCKS!

So I woke up this morning and my email account still had ZERO email notifications from the SL Forums site. Then at 7:30am local time (which would be 5:30am SLT ) my SL's Forum system sent me 172 emails that were held back for some stupid reason. And as the cycle will likely repeat itself, LL will send me immediate email notifications for the next ~ 8 hours then the emails from the SL Forums will stop again until LL blasts me the next morning with all the emails held back. This has been going on for the past week. I dont know what changes were made in the LL systems except that this all seems to have started on the same day that LL Commerce Team released DD to MP. Coincidence? @Phil... I would love to take on your advice but unfortunately my Employer would not agree with your solution.

My SL Forums Setting has it that I get immediate email notifications for all forums and threads I subscribe to. I get dozens - if not 100-200 emails from SL Forums a day (when LL Commerce Team release some change that angers all the merchants). This has been working no problem until a week ago. All of a sudden last week my email account went quiet for 12 hours. This made no sense. Sure enough I looked at the subscribed forums and there had been a lot of activities - just no emails came to me. Then BOOOMM my email account got blasted from LL's forum with a 150+ emails. For much of the day it seemed all was back to normal. But then it happened again. Same cycle. It happening right now again! GRRR!!!! Its getting soo darn frustrating. What did LL do to the forums that is causing this daily backup of my emails???? Before anyone asks.... yes I checked my setting just to make sure that the setting didnt change. My notifications are still all set to immediate. I am sick of waking up in the morning with a blast of 150+ emails because they were held back for almost a day. MAKE IT STOP !!!

Flea Yatsenko wrote: I absolutely agree with CTL. I have had problems with Magic Boxes forever. I would get messages that communications timed out, and my sales would tank. I would resetup all the boxes (limiting each box to about 5-10 items) and my sales would be 10x higher than after I got the message that my magic boxes have timed out. Not only that, but only a few items would sell well at a time, and the successful items would always change after resetting my boxes. I've been playing with it since the beginning of September, and I am fairly confident that there are major issues. Oddly enough, DD has been working much better for me, but the fact that the website isn't working right is really showing and sales still aren't the greatest I've had, but I'm doing far better with DD than I was with Magic Boxes. There is something very, very broken in SLMP that transcends DD or Magic Box. When I had my magic boxes, I kept having people message me about a product I didn't sell and them not getting it after they paid for it. Whatever the cause, it's not just DD that's causing it. Sometimes when I would re-rez my magic boxes, things would be better or they'd be worse. I really think it's kind of random and I wonder how many people have given up selling things in here because SLMP wasn't working properly. With magic boxes, I could re rez them and the system would be better. I don't know of a workaround like that for DD, since the code is all running somewhere where we don't have control. I don't even know how it's implimented.You might try resending objects from the merchant outbox and re-assigning them, but if we don't know how DD works, there's no way to come up with a good solution. It was somewhat straightforward how magic boxes worked. LSL scripts and a web server communicating with each other. Server sends items to website. Done. Whatever the case, I hope everyone gets this figured out. The website has been running really odd for me. Sometimes it just times out.Other times it takes a while for it to load. Either way, people are discouraged from shopping when it takes 10 seconds to load a page. It really hurts their confidence that the transaction is going to complete and it makes them worried they're going to have their L$ taken and then end up messaging a store owner who doesn't reply and won't resend the item. And Flea.... for every horror story like you have just posted on how bad Magicboxes were there is likely 5 untold perfectly happy stories about magicboxes. So I will tell you my story about magicboxes... I have been selling on xstreet and mp since june 2008 with the same single magicbox on one laggy mainland store parcel inworld. I think in the entire almost 4 years of selling from this one magicbox, I upgraded the code once. Prior to me even having a store - my magicbox was stuffed under a tree near a friend's rock club. In all these years, I have only gone to my magicbox to add new content or replace content. I think in 2011 I might have went to see my magicbox ONCE! In all these years my failed deliveries were so low that it would be considered a statistical error compared to my total sales. I might get a failed delivery maybe once every month or two. Whenever there was the rare rash of delivery failures it was because LL was messing with the general system that controlled deliveries or SL inworld or the asset servers. For me.... moving to DD is nothing but a complete waste of time. I had no problems with my one 3+ year old magicbox that DD needed to solve. So DD is only forcing me to do work in migrating that I didnt need to do. So..... opposite to what LL has being openly promoting with a bear burning its Magicbox.... when LL finally kills any magicbox functionality... I will likely build a shrine for my magicbox and honor it with the respect it well deserves. The parts that are screwing up merchants for delivery right now with DD - as LL as actually admitted to - is the system that controls delivery. These delays and failures will continue. In fact I would like to test a 3am SLT delivery of a DD item and see if the item shows up immediately after the sale or if it still takes an hour. Conclusion...... the Magicbox should not be burned or vilified - it should be praised for all the work it has been doing for xstreet and MP despite LL's poor delivery processes that the magicbox had to be dependent on.

CommerceTeam Linden wrote: Greetings! Orders stuck in the Being Delivered state is a known issue that first manifested itself when using Magic Boxes. Now with sellers migrating to Direct Delivery the issue is still occurring. This does not mean that the issue is caused by different reasons, as Being Delivered Orders are still stuck irrregarless of which delivery system is being used. Since a Jira Ticket does exist for orders stuck in the Being Delivered state, please use the existing Jira Ticket to add comments regarding the problem. Which LL is now starting to confirm what many of us had already predicted and openly suspected - that MagicBox Delivery in and of itself was not the root casue to so many of the delivery problems so many ppl complained about and which many Merchants and LL have vilified. As LL has just stated, DD and Magicboxes both still depend on a faulty sales processing function / service which DD will not solve. A year + of LL focused development on one MP function when so many other Merchant demanded fixes and improvements have been ignored..... and.... the evils caused by Magicboxes have not gone away. Awesome !! PS Commerce Team. Since you are actually posting in the forum. Please explain to all us Merchants why you are so bound and determined all of a sudden to get rid of Magicboxes is such a short timeframe? Whats the real truth? We are not stupid - clearly LL has an agenda why they want Magicboxes gone and FAST. Was Darrius right and LL is trying to avoid some contractual royalties obligations with the previous owners of Xstreet? Why are you ramming this DD on the Merchants instead of allowing us proper time to migrate and to allow you to actually finish DD?

I think the policy refers to the practice of delisting and relisting in a short period of time (i.e cycling them in the matter of minutes, hours, days) - I believe this was done regarding pricing, bettering search, dealing with ratings in the past - but I cant remember why. The TOS was not intended for those that were re-listing over longer cycles or because of a purpose caused by LL. I have delisted products and then subsequently relisted them later for a few reasons..... 1) the product was seasonal and I didnt want it in my store out-of-season - i.e. valentine specific gifts, and 2) the product was the target of abuse on forums and it was delisted to shelter it from abuse. In both circumstances - after a period of time they were re-listed. In fact, as part of my migration from MagicBox to DD, I relisted several of my old items that I had delisted a while ago. The good thing about using these old de-listed items was that if anything went wrong with the migration from MB to DD I would not shed any tears. They all migrated and re-listed with no problems. But you are correct in demanding that LL answer these kind of questions. that is pretty sad that LL Support answers you with a "I DONT KNOW - SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE" response and then closes the ticket. That is sad ! I cant believe the LL support person didnt have enough of a brain or effort to go confirm the answer. They didnt even think how stupid a support response is of "i dont know"?? It still ticks me off how LL Sr Management is ramming this SHUT DOWN MAGICBOX ASAP policy on all of us when there is no good reason for it, LL intended to dual support this all along, and that they dont even have answers and a complete solution with DD before they force a short deadline. WHY???

Shnurui Troughton wrote: blender is the easiest to use (5.2 and higher) and freely documented. OK I have to respond to this posting and call BS on this statement. For anyone to openly post with a straight face that a 3D program that has a long standing reputation as having one of the most difficult and confusing U.I.s in the 3D tool industry is the "easiest to use" is either not familiar with any other 3D modeling tool or has a huge bias for Blender. Blender is the first 3D modeling tool I unfortunately cut my noob teeth on. It has one of the most steep learning curves in the industry. The UI was developed by a bunch of unix geeks that had no concept of proper intuitive UI designs. If does not conform to most well known and understood UIs. After a year of using Blender, I finally was convinced to switch to other 3D modeling tools and I am happy I did. I switched to Zbrush and although it was no cakewalk either (because of the developer's stupid use of terminology that made it hard to grasp a concept), it wa far more intuitive than Blender. I have also played with a few others and Blender still ranks as the WORSE and MOST COMPLEX and UNFRIENDLY UIs I have ever seen. So please to believe anyone that tells you that Blender is the EASIEST tool to use. It might be fully endorsed by LL and it surely is a very powerful 3D tool and it's price cant be beat. BUT IT IS FAR FROM THE EASIEST ! ITS THE MOST COMPLEX.

What is really frustrating about LL ramming in DD and forcing a very quick end to the Magicboxes is that last year when LL sat down with the TPV vendors to tell them all about the up-coming DD function and they entertained questions / concerns from the TPV vendors, Brooke Linden was asked explicitely about backward compatibility and if LL will still support magicboxes after the release of DD. Brooke responded that LL did not want to create any potential instability and as such LL fully intended to support MagicBoxes indefinitely. Her statement of LL's initial intent to let magicboxes and DD exist together for an expected long period of time seems to be proven out by how the new MP Merchant design has incorporated DD. As you all can see, the Merchant inventory management screens have very nicely integrated the ability for every listing to exist and operate and be managed as either a Magicbox or DD delivery mechanism. It even has its own column to display which delivery method is being used for each listing. Ask youselves this... if your intention was always to deploy DD and within weeks shut down MagicBoxes, why would you spend so much time developing the logic for both systems to exist in harmony with such elegance? This DD deploy - to me - looks like LL did actually intent to let Magicboxes hang around for a very long time "indefinitely" as Brooke promised the TVPs. So the question we all have to ask LL and which we all know LL will not answer...... Why did LL decide all of a sudden that it has become critical that MagicBoxes get ripped off the face of the MP system as fast as is humanly possible? This is not a sublte change of plan. Clearly someone in LL must have told Brooke and team that "I WANT MAGICBOXES GONE AND I WANT IT GONE FAST!!" I mean - they went to the extent of even putting marketing effort behind it be promoting the migration by using a BEAR BURNING A MAGICBOX as a promotion of making Magicboxes look like down right evil that must be gotten rid of fast. If fact, although there have been complaints about magicboxes, there has also been proof that magicboxes in and of themselves were not the only source of the delivery problems - it was and likely will continue to be other MP system processes that caused / will continue to cause delivery problems. In the 3+ years I have used Magicboxes, they have RARELY caused me delivery problems. Yet LL has used Magicboxes as a vilified scapegoat for all the delivery problems. So now here we sit, a massive transition and tons of rushed work by all the Merchants to meet an arbitrary deadline... when there are still reported problems with DD transactions, the MP infrastructure has fallen to its knees with intolerable user page response, and LL has not even fully replaced all the functions that MagicBox had. So LL..... Who in LL Sr. Management has forced you to break your promises to the TVP's and Merchants about the future of MAgicboxes and why is there such a rush for LL to get rid of LL when the new MP code can clearly support both delivery systems transparently?

I have to agree with Darrius as it seems more like problem unique to how the migration process happened specifically for those that are getting this issue. When I saw this thread I got nervous that the few sales I had made so far on my DD migrated items were delivering me my $L after the sale, but I confirmed that they were. I did receive payment for my DD delivered items. But my migrate was one of the most simple. I only have about 40~ items in MP in total and my 6 hottest sellers were excluded from the DD migration until I am 100% comfortable that the DD is working properly and that most of the SL Residents are fully aware of what DD is. I also did the basic Boxed Item MagicBox to Boxed Item DD migration. I did not unbox anything into folders. Nor did I rename any migrated items when I moved to DD. Finally I only did about a dozen or less items at a time and tested before I went to the next batch. I was worried with LL likely not preparing for the massive migration they were forcing on us with the tight migration cutover that their systems would become overloaded (which we all saw that it did). As such, making my own massive blocks of migrations was a risk. So I did a little at a time. Just my thoughts - because my DD items are working 100% that I see. I still wished LL would send a DELIVERED PRODUCT notification after the sale was 100% completed and the customer was assured to have his/her product delivered and that the merchant was paid.

Zhoie Zimermann wrote: Is this why my MP sales have come to a total and complete halt as of this morning?? Maybe I am a MP Contrarian but I was just validating what I was seeing lately and other the 22nd when I did not make 1 sale, my sales this past week including these two days since the cutover have been awesome! My sales seems to have gone back to the sales pace I was used to prior the August 1 2011 collapse when in the period of 1 day I noticed my sales drop by 50% only to recover partially by September. Now my sales have returned and (crossing fingers it will stay) exceeded old sales pace. Even with the MP moving at the speed of a glacier, I am getting sales on both my Magicbox and DD items (only had 3 sales on my DD items). My 6 main hottest selling packs are still on MagicBox and are now the only items in my MagicBox. The remaining items (about 35 MP listings) have been fully migrated to DD and a few sales have happened on them too. The reason I didnt move my main sellers is because I dont want to confuse the vast majority of my customers on the SL Grid that still have no clue that MP switched its delivery method from what they always knew to this new method. I will switch these main sellers in a couple weeks after the rumours spread throughout the grid that LL swapped out the MP delivery and my future customers have adopted to the new delivery.

So although there are still things i do not agree with about the DD deployment.... 1) the unreasonable migration window before cutting off Magicbox function when there is no reason for the rush, 2) the lack of lead-up and initial deployment communications from LL, 3) that DD still does not 100% replace magicbox functions - like ANS, 4) the horrid performance of the site since DD engaged.... and a few other things.... But.... I have to admit that after migrating all but my top sellers (my low priced and slow sellers with low risk of issues) today, the migration of my listings to DD went very smooth (albeit at a horrid glacial pace) with really very little effort. Knowning LL's development history, I expected a lot worse. Relatively speaking, this went better than I thought. I will give LL Kudo's for getting the migration process figured out. It was as smooth as one could make it.

i have a feeling this horrendous delyas on all the SL websites is also the reason my forum subscription email alerts are frequently stopping. In the past week my email alerts from these forms have paused for several hours for the 3rd time (its happening to me again right now). When I filed an unfair product review support ticket this afternoon - the submit process from the main SL website was just as slow as the MP website. It seems to be all of SL's websites. I suspect they must all be using the same farm of web servers.

If this is how Marketplace will be now that we have DD.... BRING BACK MAGICBOXES!! The performance on MP (and even on the rest of the www.secondlife.com website) is beyond horrendous. Every click is like 20 seconds plus. WOW!

Sassy, this information should be on the tutorial that LCT posted to Merchants in draft. I asked the question right away that it was missing from the guide.... no prerequisites mentioned for Merchants wanting to use DD. As such it implies that a specific viewer is not required but it seems clear that one is. So.... to LL Commerce Team. Please post what are current workable viewers that Merchant's must have before considering migrating to DD? Firestorm and Phoenix both recently released new updates but I dont know if this was for DD.

Sadly as we all know that is not how LL Commerce Team releases new features and functions on MP. They have a habbit of making the change and then saying "Taaadaaaa!!! Look what we did!" after the change. More often than not - with bugs that we have to find for them and suffer with until they fix them. With more SL Residents shopping thru MP than inworld - LL should have already started the process of Socializing Direct Delivery to the masses ...explaining what it is, how it works, what the benefits will be, etc.. This does not mean sending out a new Thread in the Merchant forum that 99% of SL resident would never see. This needs to be like a few weeks of on MP splash screens with links to a forum blog posting. But ... sigh.... this wont likely be what happens.

Hmmm.... Based on what Gavin has been posting... saying that LL TOS is invalid and wont hold water in the eyes of the court and that because of all these stated LL TOS and EULA.... a customer is still entitled to make copies of content ... that to me in all I know about the definition of "LOOPHOLES" is what Gavin is clearlly suggesting. And when someone is suggesting that these loopholes render the IP Creator's rights useless and Customers can do what they want regardless.... that is violation. I dont see anything that goes again any posting violation. BUT Gadget... know how LL Mods work.... if you file an AR against me... I am sure they will be more than happy to fully find the correct interpretation in the guidelines to agree with you. Has happened before since I am not a friend of LL. So do what you must Gadget. If my postings disappear... at least I know why.

No Gadget, You dont get it and thats not what was being said and implied by some like Nef and Gavin. Nef's post - you can read yourself. She basically said that she is the legal human behind all her alts and it dont matter what the Creator says or doesnt say.... She has the right to transfer the content to any alts if she wants. Gavin is saying that LL TOS that all his registered Alts have been created under and that Gavin himself agreed to the LL TOS terms dont hold water to protect the creator and so its a free-for-all that nothing is protecting the content creator even if the creator does stipulate a EULA. That LL TOS should be challenged just like Apple's and Microsoft's are. As if us 100s of whopping $ SL businesses are in the same league as these $billion companies. So, Gavin, you, and others are all saying that in order for us full perm creators to protect our micro-income IP's we need to seek $1000's in legal advice, write up multi-page EULA contracted buying agreements, and also get all our REAL LIFE CUSTOMERS behind all these countless SL Alts to formally agree to these EULA prior to them making a purchase (something we cannot even do since MP has no such mechanism), and we should get all our customers to formally register and dsiclose all their alts as well as themselves to us prior to them having access to our IP content. If we dont, loophole seeking hawks like Nef and Gavin and others will take advantage of us micro-income generating full perm creators because we didnt protect all aspects of our IP rights agreement. I know what you will say... "No thats not what we are saying... we are just saying ...." but once the full perm creators are all smart enough to protect ourselves from this one weakness that you all can take advantage of us with... Gavin will find 10 more missing statements to point out. YOU DONT GET IT... This is SL and most SL Creators dont even earn enough income from their customers to pay for 1 hour of lawyer time. Get a grip of reality here.... remember where our economy is. The full perm creators - no matter how big or small / rich or poor will always be exposed by those that want to take advantage of them. Since they are full perm to allow other creator / merchants to use their content .... they do not have any technical tools to limit improper use of their content. They have to simply trust that most of their customers are honest fair-playing customers. They know this is not always the case and Loophole Leveraging customers as well as theives will always be a part of doing business. Anyway.... this is a losing battle with you all.

Gavin Hird wrote: You still don't seem to understand or accept that a SecondLife account can't breach IP – only persons can. ...and the person already obtained a licence to the material with the initial purchase. So the court could only evaluate the case based on financial loss by the merchant. A loss that for most full perm items traded in SecondLife amounts to a few dollars at most. You would be hard pressed to find any creator that operates with so many alts that the loss adds up to something. Such a case would be thrown out of court immediately. Even the petty court would not bother. Technically, it is impossible not to breach IP accoring to your twisted logic, unless main and alts operated on completely different computers. The minute you view the item in question on your computer, it is stored in your viewer's cache. So already there you have technically shared it with your alts on the same computer. Further, most creators at some stage store full perm textures on their machines to be able to modify them in a graphics application one way or the other before they are applied to a product. How is that not sharing with your alts? – They see the same file system as your primary. Or they use an alt to test their final product with end-user permissions before the product is put to the market. Which is nothing but fair use of the full perm material by any legal standard. Do you really suggest the tester should have to purchase another full perm set and apply to the product being tested? In my view a "licence" such as this is completely absurd, both because it is in violation of all established IP and fair use legislation, but also because it is virtually impossible to implement from a technical standpoint unless you have one computer per SecondLife account. Gavin, Like I said to you and the others that are looking for legal loopholes to violate a Creator's IP intent and rights. Its very clear from all your postings that your style is to operate business on the edge and take advantages of any legal / cotnractual weakness you can find. Must be part of the "apple" way - who knows. If you truly feel comfortable in oprating this way in SL and recommending to other to do the same thing in a micro-economy where most creators are too small to be protected from players like you and a few other here in this thread.... no one is stopping you. Its sad that you and a couple others here are actually prmoting this practice on trying to take advantage of full perm creators in SL that are simply happy to make a few bucks / lindens in this micro-economy. But again, there is no stopping Bullies in the sandbox if they want to be bullies - especially in this SL economy where many creators on the MP are very new and not familiar with being a selling creator. Bullies will find these targets and are more than happy to take advantage of them. I do actually agree with Riven's last posting as she is finally saying what I (and a few others) have been saying.... - Play Fair - Play Nice - Dont assume your legal rights.... simply contact the full perms creator and ask and confirm his/her intent Enjoy your day Gavin - you have a lot of targets in SL to go after.

Anaiya, I am not going to debate your logic or that of Rivens or Gavins. If you feel so confident in your beliefs enough that you cannot and/or do not even want to take the time to confirm your belief with the intent of the Creator.... that is completely your call. If some day a creator - rightly or wrongly - takes you to court for creating content with his / her input content in a way not intended because of LL TOS that your registered LL account agreed to or interpretation of the Creator's License to Use then that is great. I guess you like going to court just for the fun of it and like risking your resold goods on your "beliefs" as opposed to the facts as well as the Creator's intent. There is nothing to discuss with you or riven or gavin. Do what you want. My position still stands to those that want to avoid conflict and future potential court actions and costs.... DONT ASSUME YOU KNOW THE LAW or KNOW HOW A COURT WILL DECIDE. Do what the OP did.... confirm your standing with the Creator before spending time, $, effort on making a creation that you plan to resell. Smart Merchants would do that.

Morgaine Christensen wrote: While detail is nice and mesh makes things look far more realistic, as a builder, I hope sculpts will not go away anytime soon. When I build something, I have to balance out cost for a project vs how many prims it will be and how detailed. Currently, sculpts win hands down. Sculpties are FAR from a dead / dying technology in SL. They still serve a huge value.... specially for 3D shapes that are large / very large like my Landscaping sculpty business. My sales of my landscape sculpty packs have noticed no decline in sales since Mesh showed up and I suspect because of the huge Mesh-Only LI penalties for the size of a mesh, sculpties will be around for a long time to come. Add: you also need to take into account that unlike Mesh, sculpties are well understood in SL by builders and users and the variety of Scuplty shapes on the SL market dwarves the current offering of Mesh. It will take a lot of time for Mesh to have something close to the size of available products that sculpty has built up over the past 3-4 years. Then there is also the slow acceptance / adoption of mesh on the grid. It is no where near the adoption rate that LL and a lot of Mesh lovers had envisioned. I still have a lot of visitors to my art gallery that say they cant see my mesh art models... and even those that do tell me "wiat a minute let me relog onto my mesh capable viewer". This means a lot of SL residents only use the newer viewers to see mesh when they need to. Soooo Sculpties are still a viable technology on the grid and market.

Thanks for your input on this post. It was good reading. Sorry to hear about the risk to your RL job. RL economies still suck. Hope that the bad news doesnt happen.

Innula Zenovka wrote: In practical terms, what I do when I want to transfer some copy transfer textures or sculptmaps to one of my alts, is contact the merchant, explain what I want to do and why, and ask if it's OK or if I have to buy another set. I don't think anyone's ever told me to buy another set, by the way. But the key to what you just posted was...... YOU ASKED the Creator/Seller of the content if it was ok and what was his/her interpretation before you took the action that in all honesty you could have done without even asking him / her. But the right thing was that you confirmed with the Creator what his / her understanding was of the Usage Agreement and if it was ok. Heck, even if the Creator explicitly states that the registered buying SL Account cannot transfer the content stand-alone to anyone for any reason (which is my usage agreement), it doesnt hurt for the Buyer to Ask if the Creator is willing to make an exception to his / her clearly stated Usage Agreement. The Creator may be more than willing to make an exception but he / she just wants to maintain some sense of control in the exception. My full perms landscape sculpty packs are popular and they continue to sell well 2+ years after I created them. My agreement - as Made pointed out - states very simply and clearly that the Buyer of my packs cannot resell or transfer any of my content in the pack as stand-alone content. My included license agreement makes this statement even more clear with common examples of what that means. And yet on the 2.5 years of selling these packs to literally 1000+ customers in SL, I have only had a handful of my customers come back and ask me to clarify my agreement or ask to make an exception. In most of these cases it was requests if the Buyer could take my content to other virtual worlds (4 times to Inworldz, 2 to some educational virtual world, and one to a world I dont remember). In these "other worlds" requests I refused to allow them to transfer the content BUT I actually set up a new store in Inworldz where the customer agreed to buy the same content there. For the educational world I created an account and logged in and handed this user my content that they specially paid me for in SL. And I refused the request for the world that I never heard of. I have rarely had any customer come to me and ask if they could copy my content to their other alt. It has only happened two times that I can remember. The point is that in both cases after listening to their reason I allowed it. BUT, I sent the new copy of the content to their ALT and didnt allow them to do it themselves. WHY? Because by me sending their Alt a copy of the content - it was recorded in my records. Gnerally the point is that its always the best practice to approach the full perms creator and clarify and ask. Most of us are not OGRES but we do value our content we created and would like to protect it and get value from it. Most of my customers are Landscapers inworld and/or creators of more complex content that they get countless times more revenue from their creations using our input content then the cost our content was to them. We only ask that our rights are honored and respected and that SL residents dont try to find loopholes to violate our intent. Play Nice - Play Fair and everyone is happy.