Phil Deakins

16 wrote: another idea was for linden to start doing infill housing. like put some Linden Homes parcels on regular mainland. i think that a good idea as well My first thought about that idea is that some people would end up with Linden Homes in very ugly places. Maybe not initially but you know what often happens to mainland. If they could do it a whole sim at a time, it would be better.

I did as you suggested - save the original pic to my computer (because it's a newish computer and the original isn't on it) and set it in my V3 profile. Along the way, it had to have a format change in PhotShop and, because it was only ever a snip of a larger picture, its life's experience means that it's not a very clear picture now. It probably wasn't when it started life. Your idea of getting textures into SL that can be used by UUID is novel. I like that kind of novel thinking.

Pussycat Catnap wrote: But note Qie's post right below yours - about that Guardian article. That article is a short little rant by some fuddy-duddy [...] Presumably he's "some funny-duddy" because his opinion doesn't match yours, and that's not a valid reason at all. You specifically mentioned the gent's urinal so I'll comment on that. First, the person who offered it as a work of art didn't create it, so s/he wasn't an 'artist' for that piece. Noticing that something has an aesthetically pleasing shape doesn't make the one who noticed it an artist because s/he created nothing. Second, it might have been considered a reasonable piece of sculpture if the person who actually created it did it as a sculpture, but, like most things in the world, it was created for practical use and was, therefore, not a work of art. It was no more a work of art than the keyboard that I'm typing on is a work of art. The only way that it could be considered to be a work of art is if everything that is made is also considered to be a work of art. The same applies to the unmade bed, the half sheep, and so on. Bricks could be used as a medium, of course, but the actual pile of bricks was just that - a pile of bricks. It wasn't a work of art. Like the others, it was just somebody having a laugh at the stupidy of some people in the art world persuading themselves that it's art.

16 wrote: Zha Ewry made a code fix for an IBM OpenSim host that allowed an account logged in to a linden preview grid to be teleported to the IBM OpenSim host. basically only the account name part of the account domain got teleported/transferred. linden done their end to accept incoming I couldn't remember her name - thank you for that. She was on my friends list at the time but it was a long time ago and I'd forgotten her name. What puzzles me is how you know all this stuff. The name, 16 (an excellent name, btw), is relatively new to the forums but you know it all. I'm sure that some of what you write is researched at the time you write it, but I'm also sure that much of what you write is remembered because you were around. How long have you (the person, not the avatar) been in SL?

From what I've read, some stuff that was stolen from SL has been in OpenSim grids for some time. But you're right about money being the motive. If inter-grid jumping, with inventories, was possible between SL and other grids, then stuff would be stolen by the owners of other grids, and jumped back into SL in inventories. As things stand, stealing stuff in SL, and selling it here, is relatively small scale but, if it could be done by jumping with inventories, sales of stolen stuff in SL would be orders of magnitude more widespread. In fact, creating for sales would be absolutely pointless.

That Edit facility is available from the inworld profile too, and I'd already looked at it. It only allows the choosing of a picture from the local computer and not from the avatar's inventory - where mine exists. What I'm puzzled about it why the V3 profile didn't include the existing 1st life picture when it included everything else from the profile, including the 1st life text. And I wanted to know if it was normal for the V3 or if leaving it out is something that only happened to me.

Mircea Lobo wrote: Each with their own opinion and way of looking at things I guess. Some clarification though: Although OpenSim is intended as a server for virtual spaces and multiple viewers, I personally used and saw it as a server-side for Second Life, so people could run their own sims on their own grids freely. Yes, for you the use of OpenSim and SL are parts of the whole, but that's you, and no doubt there are others too. But SL is totally seperated from OpenSim, and OpenSim isn't a part of 'the whole'. Some years ago, I had a few OS sims running locally on my computer, and I have to say that it's good for creating offline, prior to creating online, if that's the way a person wants to do it. It's an excellent way to avoid the problems that are present in sandboxes, and it must be an excellent way to test things like animations and textures before uploading to SL. But it doesn't make OS a part of the SL whole, anymore than using PhotoShop makes PhotoShop a part of the SL whole.

I think the main reason the idea was abandoned by LL was the inventory. I don't think they could come up with anything like a secure way of handling an avatar's inventory. I.e. if an av's inventory went with the avatar when jumping between grids, it could be stolen, or object permissions changed and stolen, etc. Thne owner of the destination grid could steal it, even without the avatar knowing anything had happened. And those grid owners could be absolutely anyone. I may be mistaken but I think that's the main reason why LL abandoned the idea. I think the idea filled LL with horror too

I just noticed this the other day. I'm using the latest 'official' V3 viewer but my profile is (sort of) wrong. When someone has entered both a 1st life description and picture, the About tab displays them both - Real World Profile Picture and Real World Biography. I've had both a picture and a bit of text in my First Life section of my profile for a long time but only the text shows in my V3 profile - the picture doesn't show at all, and the heading 'Real World Profile Picture' isn't listed, presumably because it doesn't think there is one. Both of them show fine in the Phoenix viewer. Any ideas? I'm wondering if it's because I included the picture before the V3 came out, or maybe the V3 insists on a smaller file size or dimensions than previous viewers did. I never used the V2 so I've no idea about that. ETA: The picture that does show in the V1 viewer is 64x64 and definitely not larger than the allowed 5Mb. Also, the 2nd life picture shows fine, and that was also added before the V3 came out.

Pussycat Catnap wrote: Until it mainstreams, new art forms tend to get treated as just 'junk'. Only if it actually is junk in terms of art, which some of it really is - a gent's urinal, for instance, or a pile of bricks, or half a sheep, or an unmade bed, etc. The people who created those, and things like them, must have laughed their socks off when they were accepted as actual art by some people in the art industry.

Then, if OpenSim "wasn't specifically supported by LL", as you said, LL could not have cut off support for it, as you claimed at the start of this thread. Mircea Lobo wrote: As a developer I know you need to consider everyone who depends on something you created, even when you never had to support that as a company rule. Generally speaking, there's some truth in that, but OpenSim is very different. OpenSim is a reverse engineered SL server, which was done for the specific purpose of becoming an alternative to SL. There has been no change since then - OpenSim is still used as an alternative to (in competition with) LL. I see no reason for any company to consider such competition when making decisions, especially when the competition is a reverse engineered (morally stolen) version of their own system. To suggest that LL *should* consider OpenSim when making decisions is ridiculous, of course. In the early days, LL expressed moral support for OpenSim but that was when LL intended the SL system to become open and widespread and, to that end, they'd stated their intention to release the server code. Over time, that changed and now OpenSim provides the means for people to directly compete with LL. Mircea Lobo wrote: Pretty sure that if LL ever broke something you liked, you wouldn't be feeling the same way. But yeah, no worries... we'll survive Also, instead of seeing it as something who stole from Second Life by reverse-engineering the code, you could look at OpenSim as something that helped expand SL's horrizon as a technology. Supported or not supported, official or unofficial, it was and still will be an important part of SL as a whole, that things wouldn't be the same without for me at least. Just what I think. LL didn't break anything for OpenSim. OpenSim didn't "expand SL's horizon" in any way whatsoever, and it never has been a part of "SL as a whole", let alone an important part. OpenSim is completely seperate from SL. The two don't meet or connect in anything, and never have met or connected in anything. You are making the mistake of thinking that, because you like both OpenSim and SL, both of which look the same, they are each part of the whole. For you they are part of the whole, but that's nothing to do with SL and its users. For SL and its users, SL is the whole. ETA: LL did an inter-grid experiment, where an avatar successfully TPed from one autonomous grid (SL) to another autonomous grid (IBM). I don't remember if an OpenSim grid was used at the IBM end or not, but, even if was, it was a very long time ago - back in the days when LL still intended the SL-like system to be open and widespread. If it was OpenSim that was used at the IBM end, then there has been a very short-lived connection between the two but it makes no difference to this discussion. It was a very long time ago and LL have a completely different mind on openness now.

You really need to accept that LL never did support OpenSim in any way other than moral support, and even that was many years ago. You also need to accept that LL did not cut off support for OpenSim. There was no support. They changed something for ALL third party viewers, which included the OpenSom one. And, finally, you need to accept that the ball is in OpenSim's court, and not in LL's court. OpenSim is free to do what the Firestorm people do - produce 2 viewer versions. It's simple, isn't it? The OpenSim people probably find it perfectly simple too, and that you are just one individual who is complaining alone. Don't forget that the OpenSim people stole form LL by reverse engineering the server code. And also don't forget that it was the OpenSim people who unintentionally caused copybotting in SL, together with all the problems that has caused for many people. So stop bleating about the fact that OpenSim has been affected by something that LL did.

GothGirl Demonia wrote: I find Second Life Jobs Stupid, no offense but unless you are getting paid $7.00 at least an hour or $5.00 its not really worthit as a Job it will never replace work you could be doing in Real Life making more money than you woudl in Second Life. You are making a very fundamental mistake. Wages everywhere relate to the cost of living in the places where they are paid. Wages paid in SL relate to the cost of living in SL, which is miniscule compared to RL. In most cases, you cannot equate SL wages with the RL cost of living. There are exceptions, of course. E.g. if you want somebody to design a sim for you, it's RL work, so you pay a suitable RL amount for it. But most work in SL is SL work and, for that, the cost of living in SL applies. If you want to rent land in SL, for instance, how much would it cost you per month? And how much would the same area of land in RL cost you per month? How does the cost of clothes in SL compare with the same clothes in RL? It's obvious that the cost of living in SL is miniscule when compared to the RL cost of living. Therefore, wages in SL are rightly miniscule when compared to RL wages. It's no good making the point that it's an RL person putting RL time in to do the SL work. That doesn't wash because they don't need to earn anything in SL to continue living there. They choose to do it because they want to earn some SL money so they can spend it in SL on SL living, and that's what SL wages rightly reflect.

Yes, I'm mistaking the pathfinder stuff with the tools that make Realms work. I assume that the pathfinder stuff is in LSL, whereas the Realms tools are actually tools. Is that right?

Thank you for that full explanation, Innula. So the idea that LL cut the OS viewer off is just a red herring because they didn't treat it any differently to the other TPVs. The OS people could make 2 versions, like the Firestorm people do, and all would be well.

Leia36 wrote: Facinating, so she built it from nothing, a school teacher in RL Once there was nothing. Now there is something. That something had to be built from nothing

So LL didn't support OpenSim, other than years ago, when they said they supported the effort - moral support. LL releases viewer code but I'm not up to date with how they deal with third party viewers. Does LL have a list of TPVs and only those viewers can be used with SL? If that's the case, has LL removed the OS viewer from the list? If LL is now preventing the OS viewer, there must be a reason, and it can't be merely that pathfinder exists, because other viewers are not prevented. Either way, OS continues - that's OpenSim itself - not a viewer. It never needed LL's cooperation so it seems to me that nothing has changed.

Question: The pathfinder tools were only going to be available to selected people - presumably those who actually build and apply for them. Is that still the case, or does everyone now have access to them?

Mircea Lobo wrote: @ Gadget Portal: Not really. I don't consider features bad because I don't use them. This one I consider useless because I couldn't think what anyone would use it for at all, but I see some people have plans. Only reason I'm upset about it is that "the package" came with removing OpenSim support, so I wanted to at least know what was so important to sacrifice it. Thought to be honest, like other people here stated, this might be better for OpenSim after all and set us free with our custom viewers. I'm curious as to what sort of support LL gave to OpenSim, other than moral support. I thought that OS was only a copy of SL that was written by the OS programmers (reverse engineered) and that LL has never released server code. They released viewer code but I don't think they released server code. Did that change? In my view, once the OS developers had repreoduced SL, they should have been off on their own, developing it quite seperately from SL - making a genuine alternative.

Qie Niangao wrote: If I were a flipper, I'd do the one-shot level of automation, just so I could hit all the auctions I wanted to bid on all within a few minutes of closing. The problem with trying to get any smarter about it is that there's no way of synchronizing your own clock with the auction server's, and everything happens in those last few minutes. An automated bidding program might get a chance to raise its own bid in response to a counterbid, but with imperfect knowledge of the cutoff time, it would be risky to place that earlier bid at anything less than the intended limit. Even if one thought some strategy of bidding could "psych out" the other bidders, there's not much time for the out-psyching to have an effect. As a flipper, it wouldn't matter if you lost most of the auctions you targeted, as long as you won some of them sometimes.

Pussycat Catnap wrote: Phil Deakins wrote: The better way is to enter a maximum amount you are willing to pay. If someone outbids your current bid, the system bids again for you, but only the smallest allowable increase. And it does that until it reaches your maximum. If somone outbids your maximum, you lost, but you're content that haven't paid more that you are willing to pay. I'm sure that the auction system operates a maximum. I'm sure it used to, anyway - unless my memory is totally wrong. But that logic only makes sense in a world of rational actors. There is no such thing. People will bid what they feel it is worth, what they are willing to pay. Then when they realize others have an interest as well, they go through a battle of emotions that leads to either resentment, despair and walking away, realizing it wasn't of interest, or fighting tooth and claw because the emotional value of it has just been driven up. Looks like the OP got caught in the tooth and claw, and didn't fight fast enough or hard enough. It does work though. It's up to the would-be buyer to, in the cold light of day, work out the maximum that s/he is willing to pay, and accept that they weren't willing to pay enough if they lose.

IvanTwin Rogers wrote: Phil Deakins wrote: People use the word "bot" in relation to anything concerning SL that's automated. But I wouldn't call an auto-bidder a bot because it's simply a programme. Having said that, search engine crawlers/spiders are sometimes called robots. In fact, a file called 'robots.txt' is a web standard for handling search engine spiders/crawlers/robots. It's just that, when it concerns SL, the word 'bot' is all too readily used, imo. I've written quite a lot of programmes that access the web and do various things, like searches on search engines, submitting auto-generated pages to search engines, fetching pages that appear in search results - mostly stuff to do with search engines - including SL's search engine. If I was writing an auto-bidder, it would automatically log in, fetch the relevant page, ascertain the current bid, place a bid if desireable, and so on. It would do everything necessary to watch the current bid and bid itself - up to a maximum, of course. In other words, it would automate what I would do by hand if I didn't have the programme and, because of that, I don't think LL would do anything to anyone who used such a programme in the auction. I may be wrong, but I doubt they would do anything. ha, your dont know to much second life, let me say my experience in my horrible english, is poor., well one day, i put my land for sale for 1 linden for error, lol, and in a 2 second a bot get the land inmediatly, 2 sec, tazz i lost my lovely land, they give my land back in 10k when i send a im to a horrible griefer seller for the error so second life have a automatic programs and to much peoples griefers and gold farmers use this programs for take advange of second life. No? I think it's the other way round. What you wrote has nothing to do with what I wrote. You are right about your english being poor though

You may be right, Qie, but you're not a flipper. If I were a flipper, I'd automate it.

People use the word "bot" in relation to anything concerning SL that's automated. But I wouldn't call an auto-bidder a bot because it's simply a programme. Having said that, search engine crawlers/spiders are sometimes called robots. In fact, a file called 'robots.txt' is a web standard for handling search engine spiders/crawlers/robots. It's just that, when it concerns SL, the word 'bot' is all too readily used, imo. I've written quite a lot of programmes that access the web and do various things, like searches on search engines, submitting auto-generated pages to search engines, fetching pages that appear in search results - mostly stuff to do with search engines - including SL's search engine. If I was writing an auto-bidder, it would automatically log in, fetch the relevant page, ascertain the current bid, place a bid if desireable, and so on. It would do everything necessary to watch the current bid and bid itself - up to a maximum, of course. In other words, it would automate what I would do by hand if I didn't have the programme and, because of that, I don't think LL would do anything to anyone who used such a programme in the auction. I may be wrong, but I doubt they would do anything.

Perrie Juran wrote: Cerise wrote: Those nearby adult sandboxes Goyer/Teagano/Bricker/Colborne are premium only. Subscribing isn't free, but it does make the problem go away. That's what it must be. A conspiracy by Linden Lab to get us to sign up for Premium so we can access grief free Sand Boxes! Utter nonsense! It's a conspircy by Linden Lab to get more people buying islands. That's what it is. Not dealing with all the griefing, I mean.